Sturrock interview.

Tringreen wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Just about nailed it for me.

I was told by more than one source that the director's so called fire sale was an attempt to enhance to clubs attractiveness for would be buyers.

They're all as guilty as each other.

They didn't want 'buyers', they wanted to keep their fingers in the pie and still cash in. Absolute shits who claimed to be fans.

Which further exposes the shit the club was already in when they eventually conceded overall control to Gardner/Kagami.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

N

Coxside_Green wrote:

Angry wrote:

Pafcintheplace wrote:

An enjoyable interview, but hints that his book probably isn't as comprehensive as it could be.
Interesting to hear more about his experiences at Southampton.

For me Sturrock will always be a legend, and whatever happened during his alien abduction will not change that.
He had some poor judgement in the transfer market, but most culpable for making PAFC lose credibility and become a mickey mouse club goes to the Stapleton family IMO.

As for the financial meltdown, look no further than Todd, downright reckless and didn't understand football. Basically criminal what he did imo, but no come back for him or Gardner, disgusting.

He played his part certainly but i cant accept it was all down to him. £20Million plus in debt tells me the club had serious problems before Todd, Gardner and the japanese bloke with the american sidekick came on board.
Plus the fire sale in January that came before they came on board is evidence enough for me that the - figure was growing to an alarming rate back then.

I'd go along with that as well.

Mr Gill gave a pretty good account of why he sold his remaining shares when he did, after Kagami (rightly) reneged on a gentleman's agreement.  The finances were already a mess when Gardner & Todd joined the club.

Gill sold his shares because he made an absolute killing on them. Can't remember the exact figures.

From memory Gill sold his shares firstly to Kagami (20% personal shares) and a year later to Kagami/Gardner (80% personal shares).  It was believed he received a combined total of £1.1m (£500k from Kagami and £600k from Kagami/Gardner).  Whether he made 'an absolute killing' is debateable.  IMO he received too much for his initial share sale to Kagami (as did the other 3 Board members) which led to a fallout between the (local) Board and Kagami.  The 2nd (much larger) share sale was sold at a price reflective of the shit the club was already in or perhaps a truer reflection of what the club was actually worth.  However you look at it Gill got out at the right time and for good reason.

I could be wrong but I think the valuation of the freehold was what duped Kagami to buying in to begin with?  On paper everything looked safe but in reality...

What I am sure of is that Gill bought his shares initially for IRO 25-30K and he had to borrow that. 

I'd say he made a killing from your figures which I wasn't so sure of. The freehold was valued at £7.5 million, which makes it seem strange that Brent scooped it up for as little as he did. Obviously with no cash of his own.

The line that was peddled of course on the farm was that the original directors were the guarantors and would have to make up any shortfall in the value of the freehold and whatever Brent "paid" for it. However I simply do not believe this and think that this was loaded on the club to back in the loan notes that Lord Biro has spoken of passim.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

N

Coxside_Green wrote:

Angry wrote:

Pafcintheplace wrote:

An enjoyable interview, but hints that his book probably isn't as comprehensive as it could be.
Interesting to hear more about his experiences at Southampton.

For me Sturrock will always be a legend, and whatever happened during his alien abduction will not change that.
He had some poor judgement in the transfer market, but most culpable for making PAFC lose credibility and become a mickey mouse club goes to the Stapleton family IMO.

As for the financial meltdown, look no further than Todd, downright reckless and didn't understand football. Basically criminal what he did imo, but no come back for him or Gardner, disgusting.

He played his part certainly but i cant accept it was all down to him. £20Million plus in debt tells me the club had serious problems before Todd, Gardner and the japanese bloke with the american sidekick came on board.
Plus the fire sale in January that came before they came on board is evidence enough for me that the - figure was growing to an alarming rate back then.

I'd go along with that as well.

Mr Gill gave a pretty good account of why he sold his remaining shares when he did, after Kagami (rightly) reneged on a gentleman's agreement.  The finances were already a mess when Gardner & Todd joined the club.

Gill sold his shares because he made an absolute killing on them. Can't remember the exact figures.

From memory Gill sold his shares firstly to Kagami (20% personal shares) and a year later to Kagami/Gardner (80% personal shares).  It was believed he received a combined total of £1.1m (£500k from Kagami and £600k from Kagami/Gardner).  Whether he made 'an absolute killing' is debateable.  IMO he received too much for his initial share sale to Kagami (as did the other 3 Board members) which led to a fallout between the (local) Board and Kagami.  The 2nd (much larger) share sale was sold at a price reflective of the shit the club was already in or perhaps a truer reflection of what the club was actually worth.  However you look at it Gill got out at the right time and for good reason.

I could be wrong but I think the valuation of the freehold was what duped Kagami to buying in to begin with?  On paper everything looked safe but in reality...

What I am sure of is that Gill bought his shares initially for IRO 25-30K and he had to borrow that. 

I'd say he made a killing from your figures which I wasn't so sure of. The freehold was valued at £7.5 million, which makes it seem strange that Brent scooped it up for as little as he did. Obviously with no cash of his own.

The line that was peddled of course on the farm was that the original directors were the guarantors and would have to make up any shortfall in the value of the freehold and whatever Brent "paid" for it. However I simply do not believe this and think that this was loaded on the club to back in the loan notes that Lord Biro has spoken of passim.

It's all about context where Gill's share sales are concerned. There's an obvious discrepancy between the value of the 2 lots of share sales over a 12 month period, from when the books looked safe to when reality hit home and Kagami wised up. Todd was incompetent foreshore but he wasn't solely to blame for the financial meltdown (which is why I entered the thread and agreed with Angry), the Board of 4 including Gill started that off with their cooking of the books.

TBH I thought the freehold was valued closer to £10m when Stapleton was chairman but even going by your £7.5m it was over-valued. That's where the problems began with Kagami IMO.

Tringreen wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Just about nailed it for me.

I was told by more than one source that the director's so called fire sale was an attempt to enhance to clubs attractiveness for would be buyers.

They're all as guilty as each other.

They didn't want 'buyers', they wanted to keep their fingers in the pie and still cash in. Absolute shits who claimed to be fans.

I don't mean buyers of the club. I mean buyers of their shares. Well, some of them.

The original six directors paid £1.5 million to take over the club.

The rumour was always that Gill never had the money so Warren lent him it.

I assume they each paid £250,000 but don't know for sure.

Their debts/guarantees to the banks was later paid off using club profits at which point the directors owned the club without having any money in it. A point that Damon denied a while back. (Mandy Rice Davies springs to mind!).

I would guess that the club Sturrock returned to was nothing like the club of 7 years earlier.

The directors had a different agenda by then.

The two previous managers had walked out so Sturrock had no chance.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Just about nailed it for me.

I was told by more than one source that the director's so called fire sale was an attempt to enhance to clubs attractiveness for would be buyers.

They're all as guilty as each other.

They didn't want 'buyers', they wanted to keep their fingers in the pie and still cash in. Absolute shits who claimed to be fans.

I don't mean buyers of the club. I mean buyers of their shares. Well, some of them.

The original six directors paid £1.5 million to take over the club.

The rumour was always that Gill never had the money so Warren lent him it.

I assume they each paid £250,000 but don't know for sure.

Their debts/guarantees to the banks was later paid off using club profits at which point the directors owned the club without having any money in it. A point that Damon denied a while back. (Mandy Rice Davies springs to mind!).

I would guess that the club Sturrock returned to was nothing like the club of 7 years earlier.

The directors had a different agenda by then.

The two previous managers had walked out so Sturrock had no chance.

I think Warrens personal outlay initially dwarfed all the others put together.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Just about nailed it for me.

I was told by more than one source that the director's so called fire sale was an attempt to enhance to clubs attractiveness for would be buyers.

They're all as guilty as each other.

They didn't want 'buyers', they wanted to keep their fingers in the pie and still cash in. Absolute shits who claimed to be fans.

I don't mean buyers of the club. I mean buyers of their shares. Well, some of them.

The original six directors paid £1.5 million to take over the club.

The rumour was always that Gill never had the money so Warren lent him it.

I assume they each paid £250,000 but don't know for sure.

Their debts/guarantees to the banks was later paid off using club profits at which point the directors owned the club without having any money in it. A point that Damon denied a while back. (Mandy Rice Davies springs to mind!).

I would guess that the club Sturrock returned to was nothing like the club of 7 years earlier.

The directors had a different agenda by then.

The two previous managers had walked out so Sturrock had no chance.

Plenty of rumours. Stapleton allegedly remortgaged his home. None of them had money as such except for Warren who bankrolled the whole shebang.

The debts/guarantees to the banks being paid off using club profits strikes a chord though. One way or another MaCauley was quickly paid off on the back of Luggy's success as a manager.

People wonder why fans end up walking away from the club. Time after time whatever little money might be available seemingly ends up in Directors/Board members pockets. Decade after fekn decade with no end in sight.

To begin with, they bought shares on the premise that McAuley would leave once he got the money owed to rotolok back. It got to February 2002 With little sign of it forthcoming and as I understand it he would have pulled the plug. Nic Warren then pulled out his chequebook and basically saved the day. Given how everything turned out, I wonder if the rise up the leagues would have had happened with McCauley still in charge? 

It's funny how Warren has been largely forgotten by the shitterati, a man with some money behind him and a genuine fan, often seen on grim northern open terraces. 

But then we don't want walleted directors do we?

One thing I did agree with was Sturrock singing the praises of Steve Adams. I, too, thought he was a fine player. He and Shelley were half the unsung reason for the success. No one near that standard since in those positions.

Nobody knows the full extent of who done what, who scammed who, who made money, who still stands to make money.

Happy New Year all.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Nobody knows the full extent of who done what, who scammed who, who made money, who still stands to make money.  

Happy New Year all.

Exactly, it's becoming extremely tedious ..........can't we just talk about the football

Lord Biro wrote:

One thing I did agree with was Sturrock singing the praises of Steve Adams. I, too, thought he was a fine player. He and Shelley were half the unsung reason for the success. No one near that standard since in those positions.

Adams wasn't a good footballer, as proved by his lack of success elsewhere. What he could do he did well and was vital to that team. Great side 01-02, no stars no great players (friio excepted) just a solid unit pushing in the same direction.

Friio was exceptional and we done well to keep him as long as we did. Could've easily held his own in the Prem during the time we had him. Cocko wasn't far behind although not Prem quality. Same for Larry O. All 3 were stand-out so to say we had no stars seems to me a bit of an injustice (although I do get where you're coming from).

As for a solid unit pushing forward, those were the days. Doubt we'll see that again until property developments are completed, whether it be Brent lolzz or the next owner. At least Jonezz ain't trying to compete for my Saturday afternoon time/spends this time around.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Friio was exceptional and we done well to keep him as long as we did.  Could've easily held his own in the Prem during the time we had him.  Cocko wasn't far behind although not Prem quality.  Same for Larry O.  All 3 were stand-out so to say we had no stars seems to me a bit of an injustice (although I do get where you're coming from).

As for a solid unit pushing forward, those were the days.  Doubt we'll see that again until property developments are completed, whether it be Brent lolzz or the next owner.  At least Jonezz ain't trying to compete for my Saturday afternoon time/spends this time around.

I know for an absolute certainty Larrieu could have gone to Arsenal. He was offered it but didn't want a back up role, which what was on offer and also felt a sense of loyalty to Plymouth for saving his career. Not only that he'd met his wife to be and genuinely loves the city, hence he's still here. A more lovely warm hearted man you couldn't meet, which makes it all the more enraging how he was treated by the club.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

Friio was exceptional and we done well to keep him as long as we did.  Could've easily held his own in the Prem during the time we had him.  Cocko wasn't far behind although not Prem quality.  Same for Larry O.  All 3 were stand-out so to say we had no stars seems to me a bit of an injustice (although I do get where you're coming from).

As for a solid unit pushing forward, those were the days.  Doubt we'll see that again until property developments are completed, whether it be Brent lolzz or the next owner.  At least Jonezz ain't trying to compete for my Saturday afternoon time/spends this time around.

I know for an absolute certainty Larrieu could have gone to Arsenal. He was offered it but didn't want a back up role, which what was on offer and also felt a sense of loyalty to Plymouth for saving his career. Not only that he'd met his wife to be and genuinely loves the city, hence he's still here. A more lovely warm hearted man you couldn't meet, which makes it all the more enraging how he was treated by the club.

A football club is not a charity dear boy...................oh wait a minute

Tringreen wrote:

Had an exchange with Luggy [and his wife] on one of those f/b chat groups last year.............

In response to my cynical offerings on the continuing parlous state of Argyle under the current ownership, he tried to dissuade me from my unwillingness to 'just support', with the blinkered offerings of someone who has made a great living out of the game, largely thanks to those who do, 'just support'.

He claimed that supporting your club was a roller coaster ride and that I should get back on...................

People who make a fantastic living from modern football really do think 'fans' are thick and they use and abuse their loyalty, because they keep coming back for more...................... He is of course correct, that there is a hardcore so addicted to their club that they'll comply without ever looking at the bigger picture.

'Just supporting' Argiggle, is like being on the M25 forever.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

Friio was exceptional and we done well to keep him as long as we did.  Could've easily held his own in the Prem during the time we had him.  Cocko wasn't far behind although not Prem quality.  Same for Larry O.  All 3 were stand-out so to say we had no stars seems to me a bit of an injustice (although I do get where you're coming from).

As for a solid unit pushing forward, those were the days.  Doubt we'll see that again until property developments are completed, whether it be Brent lolzz or the next owner.  At least Jonezz ain't trying to compete for my Saturday afternoon time/spends this time around.

I know for an absolute certainty Larrieu could have gone to Arsenal. He was offered it but didn't want a back up role, which what was on offer and also felt a sense of loyalty to Plymouth for saving his career. Not only that he'd met his wife to be and genuinely loves the city, hence he's still here. A more lovely warm hearted man you couldn't meet, which makes it all the more enraging how he was treated by the club.

I agree Larry deserves recognition for his loyalty and thankfully the Trust has done that, one of their more palatable moves in recent times. He should never have been part of the management team however so not really sure what you mean by how he was treated.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

Friio was exceptional and we done well to keep him as long as we did.  Could've easily held his own in the Prem during the time we had him.  Cocko wasn't far behind although not Prem quality.  Same for Larry O.  All 3 were stand-out so to say we had no stars seems to me a bit of an injustice (although I do get where you're coming from).

As for a solid unit pushing forward, those were the days.  Doubt we'll see that again until property developments are completed, whether it be Brent lolzz or the next owner.  At least Jonezz ain't trying to compete for my Saturday afternoon time/spends this time around.

I know for an absolute certainty Larrieu could have gone to Arsenal. He was offered it but didn't want a back up role, which what was on offer and also felt a sense of loyalty to Plymouth for saving his career. Not only that he'd met his wife to be and genuinely loves the city, hence he's still here. A more lovely warm hearted man you couldn't meet, which makes it all the more enraging how he was treated by the club.

Larrieu should have been made club President by Brent its a scandal he gave it to Webb, i'm sure most fans would rather a club legend than one of the owners mates.

Webb is no more a mate of Brent than I am.

It all depends on your usefulness. I include those other two clowns from Pasoti as well.

They may think they're VIP's but they'll discover they're expendable sooner or later.

Till death us do part....... mates is mates, spouses for ever. Humans are full of such bull.
Webb and Newell are no more eternal friends of Brent, than Brent of them. It's just grasping geezers watching each other ..... or not ... over a communally valued watering hole, wanting due return for what they think they bring to the party. I would dearly wish to see less on here of Brent supposedly playing a blinder, because he plainly isn't. I see no evidence that Brent knows anymore what he is doing than the two village bikes. Adams is the only soul up there that seems to know the score in what really matters.
I don't know where Wrathall fits in, and what's more, I don't really care until it shows itself in physical terms.

I would guess wrathall is viewed as a cash cow with more of it than sense.