DANNY SALMAN VIEW

ejh makes a fair point when we need to consider team tactics etc. Like when Roobs spent much of last season with 2 defenders marking him. Pity we didn't have the personel to exploit the space created. Week after week Alessandro seemed to miss a sitter or scuff an easy chance and he was ahead of Smalley in the pecking order.

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

The fact of the matter is, the most games he ever played in one season was 44. His goal return? Three.

257 games. 39 goals.

To get your 20 goal a season target, Smalleys season would need to be 130 games long!  

Interestingly that is close to Reuben Reid's stats while not at Argyle or Rotherham - 139 appearances and 16 goals at 11 different clubs. Do these stats decide he's a useless journeyman best avoided, or is it possible a new manager can find a goalscorer in there?

With regards to Smalley he was hitting a goal nearly every two games at Chesterfield. He only made 28 appearances managing to score 12 goals, what if he'd have had 48 games? He most likely would have surpassed 20 goals.

Blimey ejh, you can't base an argument around saying....'if you take out Reuben's good seasons, then his record is poor'!

Smalley has had one purple patch in the whole of his career, when he got those 13 goals a few years ago. To suggest that they are in any way comparable in terms of value to the team and more to the point, worthiness of a starting place, is a bit nuts.

On top of that, if there are any players in our league that are classed as first choice, don't take pens, and are still good for 20 goals, they'll be off to the CCC tout suite.  

You chose to isolate Smalley's bad goalscoring seasons, so I was just holding a mirror up to that with Reuben. 140 appearances is hardly an negligible sample, and his 16 goals is a 1 in 9 strike rate.

It goes to show that when the side isn't built around a certain striker, it is quite hard to impress when in and out of the side, when 'off penalties', when having to adapt to a settled team rather than having a manager making the team/tactics adapt to his favoured number 9. When Reuben was settled under managers who believed in him he proved he could do well. Smalley and Brunt have been in the latter bracket most of their career, being second or third choice strikers, so to compare their goalscoring with Reuben who is playing 50 games a season, hitting penalties and having a team built around him is a bit unfair. Do you see my point?

Allow me to clarify, I do not think Reuben is a bad player, that is not my argument. My point is that he is not really any more of a natural finisher or '20 a season' goalscorer than the others. He is in the side mainly because he has a wonderful blend of pace and power at League Two level, which is good for the team. When he is focused and on form, he can batter opposition defences with his power back to goal, with his charges down the channels, and when a chance comes he is good to net it. So he's a fantastic outlet for the defence, and he doubles up as a goalscorer - when playing well and trying hard.

But we have other options. Ryan Brunt can do a lot of the donkey work that Reuben does, and do it better - he is dominant in the air, can wrestle defenders and be superior more often than not. And his determination is an asset, over Reuben, who will be visibly defeatist when things are not going his way. Brunt is our greatest aerial threat, and no doubt he would have a lot of good chances from set pieces by the look of Carey's deliveries. Brunt was scoring penalties in pre-season. If given a 50 game season, I would bet on him hitting over 15. But of course it is unlikely, because Reid is better in the channels, has more pace and more of an outlet all round.

Then we have Jervis. Not blessed with Reuben's power, although his height is an advantage for flick ons, but his pace is the real asset. In DA's current system, Jervis is looking a positive enough threat on the right wing especially in counter attacking moves when he finds space. But there is little doubt that we have a potential high scorer if played centrally, with his pace in behind CBs being a danger. Again, he has hit penalties in pre season, and scored more pre-season goals than games while Reid was injured.

Smalley is a forward that divides opinion, but I generally rate him. I see him as a Reuben-lite, he lacks his power and physicality, but competes well in the air, hassles well, is industrious - and has a cracking shot. We haven't seen enough of him due to his injury, but surely being a starting forward for Chesterfield in a title winning season and scoring 12 goals from 22 starts shows he can score goals.

People make such an issue of Reuben being a star 20 goal a season forward, but I really do not think our other forwards are far behind his goalscoring level. They just don't have his blend of attributes that make him such a good all round number 9, which suit certain tactics (particularly Sheridan's). What advantage our other forwards do have on Reuben is they don't sulk half as much as him, and I did wonder from day one if Adams had the patience to tolerate the half arsed games where Reuben likes to whinge to the ref more than to challenge - Sheridan stuck by him in those times, but a different manager with different (better) options might have other ideas.

For the time being, Reuben looks good in the team, as a number 9 flanked by Jervis and Wylde. He tries to find his wingers as they find space, unlike last season where the goalscoring burden was largely all on him and he looked to hold the ball and finish any sniff of a chance he could make. But if Reuben were to be dropped or injured, I don't  think I will worry half as much as you lot at whether our strikers/team can cope without him.

We might see that just like in pre season or in the playoff games, without Reuben, our strikers score just fine, and our team performance is just as fine.

A well balanced and considered opinion.

Paven wrote:

How many players in the league each year score 20 goals or more? Not many.

How many strikers in the league play at least 35-40 games? Quite a lot, and yet still not many will get much close to the 20 mark. Consistent goalscorers are usually one hit wonders or then touted off to the higher leagues. I imagine Reuben hasn't because he's been tried and failed at a higher league, so clubs are more likely to be cautious. Imagine we'll look for a hefty price too.

I see where you're coming from ejh, and you have made a very good point.. I just don't quite agree. For me, most players just aren't good enough to score that many goals in their respective league.

I know Matt Tubbs didn't take penalties at Pompey until late on, and he hit 21 league goals.

(From Monday 27th April)...

Quote :

Jed Wallace was in the process of receiving the ball from Matt Tubbs inside the box when Ritchie Sutton tugged at him to send him sprawling.

The referee showed Mansfield’s captain a straight red card, while Tubbs was given the penalty honours to produce a calm finish into the bottom corner.

Despite being the designated penalty taker, Wallace had agreed to hand over the duties to his team-mate to aid his golden boot bid.

James Collins scored 15 league goals while Liam Lawrence hit the pens and free kicks for Shrewsbury.

Lucas Akins was regarded by many as the best all round forward in the division, but only hit 10 goals from 35 games with Damien McCrory (remember him?) taking the Burton Albion pens.

Marc Richards took the Northampton spot kicks and scored 18 league goals, but only made 36 appearances (Reuben scored 18 league goals from 46 games).

For me there are plenty of strikers capable of scoring the magic twenty goals - it largely rests on if they can stay injury free, play a 40-50 game season, and whether or not they are hitting the penalties. Reuben has been blessed in all three departments for two seasons running, whereas many of his rivals haven't.

Tubbs is on Pompey penalties this season (since Wallace moved to Wolves) so is probably a good bet to lump on for 25-30 goals.

[Stat attack over].

I really couldn't care less about the sound bite 20 goals a season. In the old days it was 40. Players got injured then and missed games as they do now. The game has changed in how it is played, and who puts it in the net, which is probably why the Americanised "assist" statistic has raised it's ugly boring head. I don't think 20 a season players are a two-a-penny, and I remember being irritated by Gardener waxing lyrical about paying big bucks for one if one became available. One never did though, did he Roy ? It's a pointless discussion. Jermaine Easter cam here having had half a good season at Wycombe when he scored a few, looked the part with his scampering, but died a death.
Football is all about balance and system these days, one might say it's now a proper team game, well, at this level. Obviously Messi and his like are special, but we're not in that league.
There are players that can arrive that are the "icing on the cake" that make the difference, but it's quite clear Reuben Reid hasn't been that player wherever he has played.  Evans came back here as a centre forward and made a huge difference, but not as a goal scorer.
If I were trooping up to Home Park next week, I would be far more excited about Carey, Wylde and Jervis. Players that bring the best out of their teammates, and allow certain styles and systems to be adopted. I remember Connolly, one of the unsung, who was a fantastic attacking full back that made a huge contribution to the success of the team. You're either a good player at your level, or you're not.

John Hawkins wrote:

I really couldn't care less about the sound bite 20 goals a season. In the old days it was 40. Players got injured then and missed games as they do now. The game has changed in how it is played, and who puts it in the net, which is probably why the Americanised "assist" statistic has raised it's ugly boring head. I don't think 20 a season players are a two-a-penny, and I remember being irritated by Gardener waxing lyrical about paying big bucks for one if one became available. One never did though, did he Roy ? It's a pointless discussion. Jermaine Easter cam here having had half a good season at Wycombe when he scored a few, looked the part with his scampering, but died a death.
Football is all about balance and system these days, one might say it's now a proper team game, well, at this level. Obviously Messi and his like are special, but we're not in that league.
There are players that can arrive that are the "icing on the cake" that make the difference, but it's quite clear Reuben Reid hasn't been that player wherever he has played.  Evans came back here as a centre forward and made a huge difference, but not as a goal scorer.
If I were trooping up to Home Park next week, I would be far more excited about Carey, Wylde and Jervis. Players that bring the best out of their teammates, and allow certain styles and systems to be adopted. I remember Connolly, one of the unsung, who was a fantastic attacking full back that made a huge contribution to the success of the team. You're either a good player at your level, or you're not.

Good post. I don't think the 'assist' is such an invalid statistic though, even though it sounds horribly imported from American sports. Carey had two assists on Tuesday night, and it shows what he is about. Rather than goals, he is about the playmaking. With all the space on the flanks, and ahead of Reid, and from set pieces, Carey can make the chances that others can work into goals.

It is great to have a genuine playmaker, we haven't had one for many years - and when the creativity isn't there the chances can dry up. It felt too much like that at times when Hourihane left and we didn't replace him.

I think in terms of assists, if Carey stays fit he will be right at the top of that statistic for League Two this season. If he doesn't get the actual final assist himself, I suspect he will play a big part in creating a lot of the moves which lead to our goals.

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

The fact of the matter is, the most games he ever played in one season was 44. His goal return? Three.

257 games. 39 goals.

To get your 20 goal a season target, Smalleys season would need to be 130 games long!  

Interestingly that is close to Reuben Reid's stats while not at Argyle or Rotherham - 139 appearances and 16 goals at 11 different clubs. Do these stats decide he's a useless journeyman best avoided, or is it possible a new manager can find a goalscorer in there?

With regards to Smalley he was hitting a goal nearly every two games at Chesterfield. He only made 28 appearances managing to score 12 goals, what if he'd have had 48 games? He most likely would have surpassed 20 goals.

Blimey ejh, you can't base an argument around saying....'if you take out Reuben's good seasons, then his record is poor'!

Smalley has had one purple patch in the whole of his career, when he got those 13 goals a few years ago. To suggest that they are in any way comparable in terms of value to the team and more to the point, worthiness of a starting place, is a bit nuts.

On top of that, if there are any players in our league that are classed as first choice, don't take pens, and are still good for 20 goals, they'll be off to the CCC tout suite.  

You chose to isolate Smalley's bad goalscoring seasons, so I was just holding a mirror up to that with Reuben. 140 appearances is hardly an negligible sample, and his 16 goals is a 1 in 9 strike rate.

It goes to show that when the side isn't built around a certain striker, it is quite hard to impress when in and out of the side, when 'off penalties', when having to adapt to a settled team rather than having a manager making the team/tactics adapt to his favoured number 9. When Reuben was settled under managers who believed in him he proved he could do well. Smalley and Brunt have been in the latter bracket most of their career, being second or third choice strikers, so to compare their goalscoring with Reuben who is playing 50 games a season, hitting penalties and having a team built around him is a bit unfair. Do you see my point?

Allow me to clarify, I do not think Reuben is a bad player, that is not my argument. My point is that he is not really any more of a natural finisher or '20 a season' goalscorer than the others. He is in the side mainly because he has a wonderful blend of pace and power at League Two level, which is good for the team. When he is focused and on form, he can batter opposition defences with his power back to goal, with his charges down the channels, and when a chance comes he is good to net it. So he's a fantastic outlet for the defence, and he doubles up as a goalscorer - when playing well and trying hard.

But we have other options. Ryan Brunt can do a lot of the donkey work that Reuben does, and do it better - he is dominant in the air, can wrestle defenders and be superior more often than not. And his determination is an asset, over Reuben, who will be visibly defeatist when things are not going his way. Brunt is our greatest aerial threat, and no doubt he would have a lot of good chances from set pieces by the look of Carey's deliveries. Brunt was scoring penalties in pre-season. If given a 50 game season, I would bet on him hitting over 15. But of course it is unlikely, because Reid is better in the channels, has more pace and more of an outlet all round.

Then we have Jervis. Not blessed with Reuben's power, although his height is an advantage for flick ons, but his pace is the real asset. In DA's current system, Jervis is looking a positive enough threat on the right wing especially in counter attacking moves when he finds space. But there is little doubt that we have a potential high scorer if played centrally, with his pace in behind CBs being a danger. Again, he has hit penalties in pre season, and scored more pre-season goals than games while Reid was injured.

Smalley is a forward that divides opinion, but I generally rate him. I see him as a Reuben-lite, he lacks his power and physicality, but competes well in the air, hassles well, is industrious - and has a cracking shot. We haven't seen enough of him due to his injury, but surely being a starting forward for Chesterfield in a title winning season and scoring 12 goals from 22 starts shows he can score goals.

People make such an issue of Reuben being a star 20 goal a season forward, but I really do not think our other forwards are far behind his goalscoring level. They just don't have his blend of attributes that make him such a good all round number 9, which suit certain tactics (particularly Sheridan's). What advantage our other forwards do have on Reuben is they don't sulk half as much as him, and I did wonder from day one if Adams had the patience to tolerate the half arsed games where Reuben likes to whinge to the ref more than to challenge - Sheridan stuck by him in those times, but a different manager with different (better) options might have other ideas.

For the time being, Reuben looks good in the team, as a number 9 flanked by Jervis and Wylde. He tries to find his wingers as they find space, unlike last season where the goalscoring burden was largely all on him and he looked to hold the ball and finish any sniff of a chance he could make. But if Reuben were to be dropped or injured, I don't  think I will worry half as much as you lot at whether our strikers/team can cope without him.

We might see that just like in pre season or in the playoff games, without Reuben, our strikers score just fine, and our team performance is just as fine.

I hardly chose to isolate Smalleys bad goalscoring seasons! Barring a 12 goal spell, they've ALL been bad goalscoring seasons!

I don't think we'll ever agree on this. You think Smalley and Brunt are 15-20 goal strikers in the making. I don't. You think they're marginally behind Reid overall. I don't.

As far as Brunt goes, for me he is a (very) poor mans Mickey Evans. I'd love to be proved wrong and for him to force Adams hand by scoring a few when he gets opportunities, which he should now with Reids injury.

It seems that since the later part of last season, whenever Brunt has come on, he has ''made a nuisance of himself'' and ''caused problems''. Last season we didn't have the players to capitalise on this nuisance factor and this season we have.
Anyhow, great start to the season and also good knowing that DA has a few plans up his sleeve so when the opposition line up to counter his plan A he can revert to plan B .. or C ..... or just rant at the other manager

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Spot on as usual Danis, whaddya reckon Tiger Tone?

Les Miserable wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Spot on as usual Danis,  whaddya reckon Tiger Tone?

Actually not bad. It sums up what has been happening so I won't send the boys round yet.

DANNY SALMAN: Don't Panic! Oxford loss is nothing to worry about

I STRONGLY believe there is nothing to worry about following the defeat to Oxford United on Tuesday.

I am hoping that nobody will be panicking, but I do feel like the team have struggled to play particularly well since the Exeter game.

But the good thing is that we have won two out of three and it is a useful thing to be able to do.

The team cannot afford to be scared about being top of the table, and I am sure that Derek Adams won’t let that happen.

It has been a very long time since Plymouth Argyle have been anywhere near top of the league.

And some of the recent games have been nervous and a bit tentative.

Argyle haven’t performed well and have defended deep, which has seen the opposition go on top.

Against Accrington we were very fortunate to get the win, and if it wasn’t for a fantastic goal from Reuben Reid we would not have got three points.

We need to get back to playing in the manner we did earlier in the season, and I am sure they will do that.

Things are still looking extremely good, and I understand that there are games where a team is going to defend deep and that is fine.

It is just the last few games have been more about defending well and hoping to score, and that was the John Sheridan template.

I am not saying that is where we are going, I am just hoping that the team don’t get too scared about sitting at the top of the table.

It can be common to get scared when at the top, in the way that you play, that is just human nature.

Everybody at the club is desperate to get out of this league and so far Derek Adams has done everything right.

There is a good positivity around the place and in the majority of games we have got forward, got bodies into the box and played nice attacking football. But then sometimes teams will play well against you and it can be easy to get over protective and drop 10 yards deeper.

There is a long way to go and overall the side have been terrific.

THERE has been talk of the amount of yellow cards that Carl McHugh and Gary Sawyer have been picking up this season. When you have a small squad you have to be careful because you rely more heavily on those players.

But at the same time you can’t be telling players like McHugh and Sawyer to ease off because that is the types of players they are.

It is the unnecessary bookings that you don’t want to get, like for pulling shirts or over-reacting after a tackle.

If a player makes a slightly late tackle then you don’t mind that so much.

These days it doesn’t take a lot to get booked, but it is difficult when you are a combative player to hold back, because that is not your style.

I didn’t get booked that many times in my career, I never went in for rash challenges.

Some people might say I didn’t tackle but that wasn’t my game, I had pace.

Players will go into the games in the same vein, even if they are one booking away from suspension. If you get booked and suspended, then that is just the way it is

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oh hell ... I thought Danny had gone to write for the Torquay free ads paper.