DANNY SALMAN VIEW

Iggy wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

I do agree with Salman's point about Reid being a tad overrated by supporters.

If you take penalties away, he scored the same as Alessandra last season from open play, I can't remember if it was 12 or 13 each.

Do people regard Alessandra as 'prolific', 'irreplaceable', and 'too important to contemplate selling for £200k/£300k/£500k'?

Alessandra left and no one was overly bothered, and he's been replaced by a couple of SPL players who look more than adequate replacements.

12 or 13 goals from 46 games plus cup matches and two playoff games really isn't a great deal.

I dare say if Jervis had a full season of a 50 match campaign with penalty responsibilities, he'd be there or thereabouts the 20 goal mark, and Brunt/Smalley wouldn't be far behind.

Reid's 'stats' look great against all others because he has significantly more time on the pitch and umpteen opportunities over the season to shoot from 12 yards without a defence in the way.

This all said he's a bloody good player and I'm glad to have him, just wish Brunt's attitude would rub off on him and he'd try a bit harder for those headers and loose passes sometimes.

I'm perplexed as to how you can come to that conclusion, as his best efforts to date amount to a uber-modest 5 goals in 28 games for Ross County last year.

And here we find the reason that Shez was said to have not got the most out of his players, too many players were said to have been exceptional quality whilst having no history whatsoever of achieving anything other than the odd league 2 goal. It's all in their minds.

Well Jervis was our top scorer in pre season. Despite playing against poor opposition the boy looks dangerous. At Wimbledon he looked dangerous, found himself space and was our main counter attacking threat (and was inches from a goal in that game too). Two goals last night, the first a work of art and totally against the run of play shows what a threat he is going to be.

In short I prefer to judge a player on what I see myself, not on his wikipedia/soccerbase statistics 'prove', or what some gaffer has said he thinks of the player. I said in an earlier argument with Greenskin that Graham Carey is good to grab 10+ this season, but apparently this is unfeasible in his opinion as Carey has only hit 4 in a single season before? This difference is, Carey is playing League 2 level, not SPL. He is playing a long season, not a short one. He is the main creative influence in this side, master playmaker and free kick taker, rather than just one option. And as a player that loves a drive from distance, his role behind the number 9 is ideal to pick up the ball in space and set himself up, unlike Bobby Reid who always wanted to carry and offload over shooting. He has been signed to do exactly as he is doing, with two goals already, I think he is going to get more than two more goals in the next 43 league games.

Same for Jervis. Two league starts, two league goals, I don't think (barring injury or transfer) that hitting 12-15 by the end of the season is going to be much beyond him. As I say, give him Reuben's penalties and there's your magical 20 goal striker (even if he is currently playing on the right wing).

ejh wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

I do agree with Salman's point about Reid being a tad overrated by supporters.

If you take penalties away, he scored the same as Alessandra last season from open play, I can't remember if it was 12 or 13 each.

Do people regard Alessandra as 'prolific', 'irreplaceable', and 'too important to contemplate selling for £200k/£300k/£500k'?

Alessandra left and no one was overly bothered, and he's been replaced by a couple of SPL players who look more than adequate replacements.

12 or 13 goals from 46 games plus cup matches and two playoff games really isn't a great deal.

I dare say if Jervis had a full season of a 50 match campaign with penalty responsibilities, he'd be there or thereabouts the 20 goal mark, and Brunt/Smalley wouldn't be far behind.

Reid's 'stats' look great against all others because he has significantly more time on the pitch and umpteen opportunities over the season to shoot from 12 yards without a defence in the way.

This all said he's a bloody good player and I'm glad to have him, just wish Brunt's attitude would rub off on him and he'd try a bit harder for those headers and loose passes sometimes.

I'm perplexed as to how you can come to that conclusion, as his best efforts to date amount to a uber-modest 5 goals in 28 games for Ross County last year.

And here we find the reason that Shez was said to have not got the most out of his players, too many players were said to have been exceptional quality whilst having no history whatsoever of achieving anything other than the odd league 2 goal. It's all in their minds.

Well Jervis was our top scorer in pre season. Despite playing against poor opposition the boy looks dangerous. At Wimbledon he looked dangerous, found himself space and was our main counter attacking threat (and was inches from a goal in that game too). Two goals last night, the first a work of art and totally against the run of play shows what a threat he is going to be.

In short I prefer to judge a player on what I see myself, not on his wikipedia/soccerbase statistics 'prove', or what some gaffer has said he thinks of the player. I said in an earlier argument with Greenskin that Graham Carey is good to grab 10+ this season, but apparently this is unfeasible in his opinion as Carey has only hit 4 in a single season before? This difference is, Carey is playing League 2 level, not SPL. He is playing a long season, not a short one. He is the main creative influence in this side, master playmaker and free kick taker, rather than just one option. And as a player that loves a drive from distance, his role behind the number 9 is ideal to pick up the ball in space and set himself up, unlike Bobby Reid who always wanted to carry and offload over shooting. He has been signed to do exactly as he is doing, with two goals already, I think he is going to get more than two more goals in the next 43 league games.

Same for Jervis. Two league starts, two league goals, I don't think (barring injury or transfer) that hitting 12-15 by the end of the season is going to be much beyond him. As I say, give him Reuben's penalties and there's your magical 20 goal striker (even if he is currently playing on the right wing).

Can't remember that but if you say so. In fact the scoring records of all the players signed during the summer wasn't much to write home about and I would have been concerned about it-because a player is playing at a lower level than previously doesn't necessarily mean that he can change his spots to suit a particular purpose but I hope that Carey can carry on in the same fashion throughout the season and get the 10 plus goals that you mention. He isn't going to be playing against sides like Carlisle every week [poor last season, conceded four on their own pitch last weekend] but he does look a useful player and maybe he can fill a hole that in reality has been gaping at Home park for years, since Norris, Buzz, Halmosi et al departed.

Ejh, your track record of predictions isn't fantastic tbf. And it's more than a little lame to drag up a thread after the event of Jervis scoring a couple.

As it goes I am pretty impressed with what I've seen of Jervis so far, and Carey was immense last night. But one or two swallows don't make a summer, and Luke Young is still in the Conference...

ejh wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

I do agree with Salman's point about Reid being a tad overrated by supporters.

If you take penalties away, he scored the same as Alessandra last season from open play, I can't remember if it was 12 or 13 each.

Do people regard Alessandra as 'prolific', 'irreplaceable', and 'too important to contemplate selling for £200k/£300k/£500k'?

Alessandra left and no one was overly bothered, and he's been replaced by a couple of SPL players who look more than adequate replacements.

12 or 13 goals from 46 games plus cup matches and two playoff games really isn't a great deal.

I dare say if Jervis had a full season of a 50 match campaign with penalty responsibilities, he'd be there or thereabouts the 20 goal mark, and Brunt/Smalley wouldn't be far behind.

Reid's 'stats' look great against all others because he has significantly more time on the pitch and umpteen opportunities over the season to shoot from 12 yards without a defence in the way.

This all said he's a bloody good player and I'm glad to have him, just wish Brunt's attitude would rub off on him and he'd try a bit harder for those headers and loose passes sometimes.

I'm perplexed as to how you can come to that conclusion, as his best efforts to date amount to a uber-modest 5 goals in 28 games for Ross County last year.

And here we find the reason that Shez was said to have not got the most out of his players, too many players were said to have been exceptional quality whilst having no history whatsoever of achieving anything other than the odd league 2 goal. It's all in their minds.

Well Jervis was our top scorer in pre season. Despite playing against poor opposition the boy looks dangerous. At Wimbledon he looked dangerous, found himself space and was our main counter attacking threat (and was inches from a goal in that game too). Two goals last night, the first a work of art and totally against the run of play shows what a threat he is going to be.

In short I prefer to judge a player on what I see myself, not on his wikipedia/soccerbase statistics 'prove', or what some gaffer has said he thinks of the player. I said in an earlier argument with Greenskin that Graham Carey is good to grab 10+ this season, but apparently this is unfeasible in his opinion as Carey has only hit 4 in a single season before? This difference is, Carey is playing League 2 level, not SPL. He is playing a long season, not a short one. He is the main creative influence in this side, master playmaker and free kick taker, rather than just one option. And as a player that loves a drive from distance, his role behind the number 9 is ideal to pick up the ball in space and set himself up, unlike Bobby Reid who always wanted to carry and offload over shooting. He has been signed to do exactly as he is doing, with two goals already, I think he is going to get more than two more goals in the next 43 league games.

Same for Jervis. Two league starts, two league goals, I don't think (barring injury or transfer) that hitting 12-15 by the end of the season is going to be much beyond him. As I say, give him Reuben's penalties and there's your magical 20 goal striker (even if he is currently playing on the right wing).

If Jervis continues to play well and score goals, you know what will happen, other clubs will come a sniffing and he would get sold for a Plymouth price. The same would also apply to Wylde and Carey.

Sold you are aware they are all out of contract come the summer?

Czarcasm wrote:

Ejh, your track record of predictions isn't fantastic tbf. And it's more than a little lame to drag up a thread after the event of Jervis scoring a couple.

As it goes I am pretty impressed with what I've seen of Jervis so far, and Carey was immense last night. But one or two swallows don't make a summer, and Luke Young is still in the Conference...

'Lame' to drag up a discussion we were having only last week, which I haven't had time to reply to before now? I'm unaware of the bad predictions I've made, I just have opinions which I come here to exchange - one of which that Jervis could score 20 at this level, and that what a player has done at previous clubs isn't the ceiling on a player's potential.

Angry wrote:

Sold you are aware they are all out of contract come the summer?

Point taken.

Let us hope the likes of Jervis and Wylde and Carey remain for that year and even better, sign new contracts after that year is up (or before).

It would be  travesty should any of them leave the club, as they are quality players. Something Argyle have lacked recently.

I don't think anyone argued where the ceiling was. My take was that it is highly speculative to make predictions like those you made, based on pre-season non-league showings plus 1 or two league games.

Quite frankly your vision of Smalley and Brunt both being near-on 20 goal strikers given playing time is worth way more than this solitary eyebrow raise...

According to Brent ( ? ) Adams has said he wants to build a "club" here. Excellent, if he is allowed to.  One very good litmus test of whether that desire is making headway, will be if and when valued players elect to stay at the club even when pursued by other suitors. So far, under Brent's reign, any player seemingly in demand has jumped ship asap. Apart from Reid that is, but his reputation probably isn't as good as most 20 a year strikers would be.
Of course, it's exactly these sort of issues that go wrong when the "club" thing isn't a two way street. I think most fans would say offering any player no more than a 12 month contract, like Brent has decreed, is not a good start down that two way street. I wouldn't mind betting reluctance has been a Jimmyism ever since he was a child. It's his nature.
It is quite clear already, that if allowed to play ( Portsmouth didn't allow it ), the likes of Wylde, Carey and Jervis are a cut above anything that has been at the club for some time. It's been donkey's years since Argyle have scored goals like they did last night. It might even be considered actual entertainment by some. Again, very happy for Adams.

John Hawkins wrote:

According to Brent ( ? ) Adams has said he wants to build a "club" here. Excellent, if he is allowed to.  One very good litmus test of whether that desire is making headway, will be if and when valued players elect to stay at the club even when pursued by other suitors. So far, under Brent's reign, any player seemingly in demand has jumped ship asap. Apart from Reid that is, but his reputation probably isn't as good as most 20 a year strikers would be.
Of course, it's exactly these sort of issues that go wrong when the "club" thing isn't a two way street. I think most fans would say offering any player no more than a 12 month contract, like Brent has decreed, is not a good start down that two way street. I wouldn't mind betting reluctance has been a Jimmyism ever since he was a child. It's his nature.
It is quite clear already, that if allowed to play ( Portsmouth didn't allow it ), the likes of Wylde, Carey and Jervis are a cut above anything that has been at the club for some time. It's been donkey's years since Argyle have scored goals like they did last night. It might even be considered actual entertainment by some. Again, very happy for Adams.

JB or DA? P'raps a bit of both? If the season contains a whack of the swashbuckling footy and cracking goals like last night then the fans will show massive appreciation to the players and that together with a promotion would, I hope, make the players want to stay. Lets get to December in the top 5 and go from there.
Some bleedy cracking goals so far.

Saturdays game will prove interesting northampton been in good form thus far

Czarcasm wrote:

I don't think anyone argued where the ceiling was. My take was that it is highly speculative to make predictions like those you made, based on pre-season non-league showings plus 1 or two league games.

Quite frankly your vision of Smalley and Brunt both being near-on 20 goal strikers given playing time is worth way more than this solitary eyebrow raise...  

Why? When you boil those 20 goals into 13-14 from open play and 6-7 penalties, it really isn't beyond the likes of Jervis, Brunt and Smalley. You are simply assuming that because they haven't done it before they are not capable of it.

The difference is they are not going to start 45 out of 46 league matches like Reuben did last season, or make a total of 53 starts a season like he did. Alessandra had comparable pitch time last season and scored 13 goals from open play, and hit 12 the season before playing largely as a side midfielder. If Lewi were the penalty taker, took 9 pens a season and scored 7, that's 19 and 20 goals he realistically would have scored - and one of those seasons he didn't even play up front. (I bet he's kicking himself on how much it could have added to his wage packet too!)

If you were to give Brunt, Smalley and Jervis 50 starts each at League Two clubs (say Wimbledon, Oxford and Leyton Orient), where they would stay injury free, play at least an hour each match and take the set pieces from 12 yards, I am certain all three would get at least 15-20 goals each, possibly more in Jervis's case. They are good capable players. But they don't have the backing that Reuben had from Sheridan, and haven't had that backing from a manager in their careers to start every single game they are fit. (Infact how many of Reuben's rivals for top scorer get 45-50 starts and are allowed to take penalties?).

When you boil Reuben's goal scoring down, he is hitting 15 goals a season from open play in 50 starts. It is a 1 in 3.5 ish strike rate with penalties sprinkled on top. Start Jervis up front and I think he will comfortably score a goal for every 3 and a half matches he starts. So despite him never doing it on his Wikipedia page, you can see Jervis is a potential 20+ a season striker in similar circumstances, if given the same support from the gaffer Reuben has enjoyed. Infact I can see Jervis hitting 15 from open play this season if he can stay injury free, which might even match/outscore Reuben's ooen play goal tally from the right wing.

Oh bore off, you were constantly slagging Shez because he wasnt getting enough out of our hugely talented squad, as we pointed out at the time the squad had no history of greatness as this one doesn't, shore the odd one will surprise us but there is a reason these players are playing in league 2.

Iggy wrote:

Oh bore off, you were constantly slagging Shez because he wasnt getting enough out of our hugely talented squad, as we pointed out at the time the squad had no history of greatness as this one doesn't, shore the odd one will surprise us but there is a reason these players are playing in league 2.

Can't always successfully judge a player on their Wikipedia goalscoring stats Iggy, one day you might develop the capacity to have your own opinion without them

ejh wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Oh bore off, you were constantly slagging Shez because he wasnt getting enough out of our hugely talented squad, as we pointed out at the time the squad had no history of greatness as this one doesn't, shore the odd one will surprise us but there is a reason these players are playing in league 2.

Can't always successfully judge a player on their Wikipedia goalscoring stats Iggy, one day you might develop the capacity to have your own opinion without them

IIRC you once judged a player on his Football Manager stats.

ejh wrote:

When you boil Reuben's goal scoring down, he is hitting 15 goals a season from open play in 50 starts. It is a 1 in 3.5 ish strike rate with penalties sprinkled on top.

Are you sure you're not a lovechild of Sir Francis ?   Less of the maths please, mathematics never explained a natural, or anything apart from a boring Sunday afternoon. You're not taking into account the system played or any other factors. For instance, a former Exeter and  Argyle favourite Fred Binney whacked in 42 goals I think in a Div 4 season once. It's how the game is played that counts. Goalscoring is subject to current defensive coaching, even the times themselves. Reid has been one of the few outlets at Argyle recently..... he's bound to put in one or two under those circumstances, our cat would have got a hatful tapping them in.
It seems clear this season that Argyle are reverting to a pushing confident midfield at long last, reminiscent of the Friio/Norris style, and there is little defence against that at this level. The difference in physical attributes between Jervis and Reid is quite marked. Jervis' movement is off the planet compared with Rooobz. My pint is on Jervis this season.
That said, the prolific and formerly slightish dear old Bazza Hayles was a right old lump by the time he came down here. but he wasn't half a player. It takes something to bully a pro 6ft 3 centre back who's up your arse with thumping great boots and elbows.

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I don't think anyone argued where the ceiling was. My take was that it is highly speculative to make predictions like those you made, based on pre-season non-league showings plus 1 or two league games.

Quite frankly your vision of Smalley and Brunt both being near-on 20 goal strikers given playing time is worth way more than this solitary eyebrow raise...  

Why? When you boil those 20 goals into 13-14 from open play and 6-7 penalties, it really isn't beyond the likes of Jervis, Brunt and Smalley. You are simply assuming that because they haven't done it before they are not capable of it.

The difference is they are not going to start 45 out of 46 league matches like Reuben did last season, or make a total of 53 starts a season like he did. Alessandra had comparable pitch time last season and scored 13 goals from open play, and hit 12 the season before playing largely as a side midfielder. If Lewi were the penalty taker, took 9 pens a season and scored 7, that's 19 and 20 goals he realistically would have scored - and one of those seasons he didn't even play up front. (I bet he's kicking himself on how much it could have added to his wage packet too!)

If you were to give Brunt, Smalley and Jervis 50 starts each at League Two clubs (say Wimbledon, Oxford and Leyton Orient), where they would stay injury free, play at least an hour each match and take the set pieces from 12 yards, I am certain all three would get at least 15-20 goals each, possibly more in Jervis's case. They are good capable players. But they don't have the backing that Reuben had from Sheridan, and haven't had that backing from a manager in their careers to start every single game they are fit. (Infact how many of Reuben's rivals for  top scorer get 45-50 starts and are allowed to take penalties?).

When you boil Reuben's goal scoring down, he is hitting 15 goals a season from open play in 50 starts. It is a 1 in 3.5 ish strike rate with penalties sprinkled on top. Start Jervis up front and I think he will comfortably score a goal for every 3 and a half matches he starts. So despite him never doing it on his Wikipedia page, you can see Jervis is a potential 20+ a season striker in similar circumstances, if given the same support from the gaffer Reuben has enjoyed. Infact I can see Jervis hitting 15 from open play this season if he can stay injury free, which might even match/outscore Reuben's ooen play goal tally from the right wing.

Ejh, has it never occured to you that there may have been a reason why Smalley (for example) hasn't had 45-50 games a season? Your brittle argument is based around your belief that, regardless of ability, he would get 15-20 goals if playing a full season. Managers aren't going to keep strikers in the team week after week after week, when they aren't scoring. He's actually had a few seasons with 30 plus games, but his goal ratio is poor.

The fact of the matter is, the most games he ever played in one season was 44. His goal return? Three.

257 games. 39 goals.

To get your 20 goal a season target, Smalleys season would need to be 130 games long!  

Les Miserable wrote:

ejh wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Oh bore off, you were constantly slagging Shez because he wasnt getting enough out of our hugely talented squad, as we pointed out at the time the squad had no history of greatness as this one doesn't, shore the odd one will surprise us but there is a reason these players are playing in league 2.

Can't always successfully judge a player on their Wikipedia goalscoring stats Iggy, one day you might develop the capacity to have your own opinion without them

IIRC you once judged a player on his Football Manager stats.

So I formed an opinion of a player based on Football Manager stats? I don't think so. I remember the incident you are referring to, and I light heartedly scouted Argyle's signings on that game and pasted the results. I don't think I have ever retrospectively commented 'I always said we should drop Mellor, Norburn and McHugh, I said all along after my scout on Football Manager said they were non league standard'.

The reason Reuben plays regularly and the others don't is because besides goals, he brings so much more to the team than Brunt or Smalley. Brunt is a fine option and as an impact sub he's a very good option. But has Smalley ever actually done anything to ever prove to anyone that he might actually be a good option for consistent football?

I haven't seen it, and nobody else has for a few years either.

He wouldn't score 15-20 a season because he's 1) Not good enough anyway and 2) Not good enough to start enough games that might give him a shot at scoring that many.

Czarcasm wrote:

The fact of the matter is, the most games he ever played in one season was 44. His goal return? Three.

257 games. 39 goals.

To get your 20 goal a season target, Smalleys season would need to be 130 games long!  

Interestingly that is close to Reuben Reid's stats while not at Argyle or Rotherham - 139 appearances and 16 goals at 11 different clubs. Do these stats decide he's a useless journeyman best avoided, or is it possible a new manager can find a goalscorer in there?

With regards to Smalley he was hitting a goal nearly every two games at Chesterfield. He only made 28 appearances managing to score 12 goals, what if he'd have had 48 games? He most likely would have surpassed 20 goals.

Paven wrote:

The reason Reuben plays regularly and the others don't is because besides goals, he brings so much more to the team than Brunt or Smalley. Brunt is a fine option and as an impact sub he's a very good option. But has Smalley ever actually done anything to ever prove to anyone that he might actually be a good option for consistent football?

I haven't seen it, and nobody else has for a few years either.

He wouldn't score 15-20 a season because he's 1) Not good enough anyway and 2) Not good enough to start enough games that might give him a shot at scoring that many.

I agree with you about Reuben, my point is just that he is celebrated as an Argyle treasure for scoring 20 goals but it really isn't as special as is made out when given 45-50 starts and allowed to take penalties. Our other strikers aren't given such luxuries, but that doesn't mean they couldn't notch a fair few if given a proper run in the side. In fact I am confident a few of them could match those stats.

You are a vocal critic of Smalley and quite clearly don't like the player, you are entitled to your opinion. I see him as a handy physical forward who can strike the ball well and could easily score a fair few goals given a run in the side. He's a good player, Reuben however is just better at running the channels, hold up play and being a nuisance which is beneficial to the team.

ejh wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

ejh wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Oh bore off, you were constantly slagging Shez because he wasnt getting enough out of our hugely talented squad, as we pointed out at the time the squad had no history of greatness as this one doesn't, shore the odd one will surprise us but there is a reason these players are playing in league 2.

Can't always successfully judge a player on their Wikipedia goalscoring stats Iggy, one day you might develop the capacity to have your own opinion without them

IIRC you once judged a player on his Football Manager stats.

So I formed an opinion of a player based on Football Manager stats? I don't think so. I remember the incident you are referring to, and I light heartedly scouted Argyle's signings on that game and pasted the results. I don't think I have ever retrospectively commented 'I always said we should drop Mellor, Norburn and McHugh, I said all along after my scout on Football Manager said they were non league standard'.

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

The fact of the matter is, the most games he ever played in one season was 44. His goal return? Three.

257 games. 39 goals.

To get your 20 goal a season target, Smalleys season would need to be 130 games long!  

Interestingly that is close to Reuben Reid's stats while not at Argyle or Rotherham - 139 appearances and 16 goals at 11 different clubs. Do these stats decide he's a useless journeyman best avoided, or is it possible a new manager can find a goalscorer in there?

With regards to Smalley he was hitting a goal nearly every two games at Chesterfield. He only made 28 appearances managing to score 12 goals, what if he'd have had 48 games? He most likely would have surpassed 20 goals.

Blimey ejh, you can't base an argument around saying....'if you take out Reuben's good seasons, then his record is poor'!

Smalley has had one purple patch in the whole of his career, when he got those 13 goals a few years ago. To suggest that they are in any way comparable in terms of value to the team and more to the point, worthiness of a starting place, is a bit nuts.

On top of that, if there are any players in our league that are classed as first choice, don't take pens, and are still good for 20 goals, they'll be off to the CCC tout suite.

How many players in the league each year score 20 goals or more? Not many.

How many strikers in the league play at least 35-40 games? Quite a lot, and yet still not many will get much close to the 20 mark. Consistent goalscorers are usually one hit wonders or then touted off to the higher leagues. I imagine Reuben hasn't because he's been tried and failed at a higher league, so clubs are more likely to be cautious. Imagine we'll look for a hefty price too.

I see where you're coming from ejh, and you have made a very good point.. I just don't quite agree. For me, most players just aren't good enough to score that many goals in their respective league.

Paven wrote:

How many players in the league each year score 20 goals or more? Not many.

How many strikers in the league play at least 35-40 games? Quite a lot, and yet still not many will get much close to the 20 mark. Consistent goalscorers are usually one hit wonders or then touted off to the higher leagues. I imagine Reuben hasn't because he's been tried and failed at a higher league, so clubs are more likely to be cautious. Imagine we'll look for a hefty price too.

I see where you're coming from ejh, and you have made a very good point.. I just don't quite agree. For me, most players just aren't good enough to score that many goals in their respective league.

No doubt, history tells us that