clusterfuck is back on ;)

What happened to Richard Holliday (PAFC Director) who was supposed to have led the team that financed the building of the Emirates stadium?
He was brought on board because of his financial skills in the building and infrastructure world.

He's obviously on holiday

Rickler wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

Except the existing grandstand could continue for the foreseeable future if necessary. Which means there can't be any serious problems with the structure. We all want to see a new stand but while PAFC and PCC work out just how they are going to achieve that in the next few years the grandstand can continue to be used.

At this stage it looks like it will take a few years to get anything going at all, so the Grandstand had better have at least that in it...

But now what?

The reality seems to me, that Brent needs to change the 'usage' of HHP and get either private investment (unlikely) or the council to pay for it.  What can be done that will attract money and fit in with the councils development policy?  Not much it seems, otherwise surely they could have come up with an alternative scheme by now?

What does Brent do now?

I think the press articles highlighting the financial strength of the club and Brent in 'deadlock' with the council, signal the first moves in Brent moving on if he doesn't get his way.

Quite possibly, if not an outright exit strategy then a preparing the ground for one.

What irritates me the most is the lack of action, we need a fit for purpose grandstand already.

The 'village' mentality ('your' word not mine but I can recognise what it represents) won't get banished without modern infrastructure and a modern outlook. The 'half finished' look of the horseshoe joined up to an anachronism gives us a 'not quite the real deal' look that's sadly indicative of the club itself.

Not going to open up old wounds on capacity, you know where I (ahem) stand on the 'mahoosiveness' or otherwise of Argyle's support. What's more important is dragging Argyle into the 21st century and the grandstand sadly harks back to the turn of the 20th century. 15k as mooted above though would be on the smaller side of our requirements, even by my interpretation of need.

HHP clearly isn't going to happen, continually kicking it on and on into longer and longer grass doesn't help Argyle. Maybe the thought process is to hold on until the economy picks up but that's no help either, the grandstand needed doing well over a decade ago, now is unacceptably late, let alone in 5-10 years time.

If James Brent moves on having achieved the 2016 debt repayment and stabilised the club as a whole post administration then that's achievement enough for me. He'll have done the desperate baseline requirement but handing over to someone who can and will deliver a completed modern ground can't come soon enough.

No named Operator for Car Park
No named Operator for Ice Rink
No use for the Studio School plot
No finalised plans for Outland Rd junction
No finalised plans for Lyndhurst ring road

and according to Tudor with no clarification from PAFC
No tenant for Hotel
16% funding (£8M) expected to come from PCC and PCH.


Yup. All British Lands fault

Les Miserable wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Angry wrote:

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I see they've airbrushed Porky out of the picture.

Here's the original.

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HA ha...rock out.............. with your cock out.......

green_genie wrote:

No named Operator for Car Park
No named Operator for Ice Rink
No use for the Studio School plot
No finalised plans for Outland Rd junction
No finalised plans for Lyndhurst ring road

and according to Tudor with no clarification from PAFC
No tenant for Hotel
16% funding (£8M) expected to come from PCC and PCH.


Yup. All British Lands fault

When you see it there like that, it's gives real tangible perspective to just how rank amateur Brent and Akkeron have performed since the Council bent over backwards to give them the HHP Green light.

Hopefully when the formalities of British Lands Bretonside deal are signed and sealed, Brent can accept he's not making his millions via Argyle and HHP, and he can pass the reins to someone who can take us forward with vision and class.

the car park bit always troubled me as to why that was ever needed given there are two big FREE car parks right next to the ground :S

Who would ever pay to use an NCP (or other) car park with free car parks close by.
Not long ago PCC were considering introducing charging for the Park and Ride car park though sensibly decided against it.
Life Centre staff have apparently tried to prevent fans using 'their' park, though as there aren't any notices or systems in place stipulating the carpark is only for those using the centre this would appear to be in vain.
The planned underground carpark would also be unavailable when Argyle were playing - a bit rich for hotel guests perhaps travelling 100s of miles having to wait till the crowds had cleared before getting access. Madness.

Dingle wrote:

Who would ever pay to use an NCP (or other) car park with free car parks close by.  
Not long ago PCC were considering introducing charging for the Park and Ride car park though sensibly decided against it.  
Life Centre staff have apparently tried to prevent fans using 'their' park, though as there aren't any notices or systems in place stipulating the carpark is only for those using the centre this would appear to be in vain.  
The planned underground carpark would also be unavailable when Argyle were playing - a bit rich for hotel guests perhaps travelling 100s of miles having to wait till the crowds had cleared before getting access.  Madness.    

As has been said thousands of times on here and even once or twice on that other forum, the whole HHP scheme was a complete shambles from the very beginning  #betteroffdead

Coach station planning on live feed now




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Tgwu wrote:

Coach station planning on live feed now




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The only thing they could decline planning permission is for the location of that station, im not convince its in the best place myself imo it should be near the train station a complete overhaul of that area with knocking the old buildings there would have been better.

Sorry I should have said it for the  new cauch station. Back to webcam

Update


Been Passed

Let's hope BL puts their planning application in soon.

Building a new Grandstand would be a total waste of money.

7000 fans will turn up no matter how poor the facilities or how bad the football is.

Another 7000 will turn up if the Club gets back to the Championship.

No one will come to watch Argyle v Accrington because the quality of the seating is so good.

No one will not come to Argyle v Wolves because they don't like the seats.


When Bill Clinton was running or President he kept reminding himself "It's the economy, stupid" because that's what matters most to the voters.

Brent needs to remind himself "It's a football club, stupid"

Grovehill wrote:

Building a new Grandstand would be a total waste of money.

7000 fans will turn up no matter how poor the facilities or how bad the football is.

Another 7000 will turn up if the Club gets back to the Championship.

No one will come to watch Argyle v Accrington because the quality of the seating is so good.

No one will not come to Argyle v Wolves because they don't like the seats.


When Bill Clinton was running or President he kept reminding himself "It's the economy, stupid" because that's what matters most to the voters.

Brent needs to remind himself "It's a football club, stupid"

bill clinton wasnt he the one who really like cigars in a certain way?

Grovehill wrote:

Building a new Grandstand would be a total waste of money.

7000 fans will turn up no matter how poor the facilities or how bad the football is.

Another 7000 will turn up if the Club gets back to the Championship.

No one will come to watch Argyle v Accrington because the quality of the seating is so good.

No one will not come to Argyle v Wolves because they don't like the seats.


When Bill Clinton was running or President he kept reminding himself "It's the economy, stupid" because that's what matters most to the voters.

Brent needs to remind himself "It's a football club, stupid"

The idea of the new stand isn't only to improve match day spectating facilities, but also to improve conference and hospitality facilities that'll allow the stand to be used on non-match days also. Its a move that absolutely makes sense and will provide a much required source of revenue to be invested in the footballing side of the club. The idea to build a new stand carries very few negatives, I believe its only the capacity debate that divides opinion.

spowell92 wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

Building a new Grandstand would be a total waste of money.

7000 fans will turn up no matter how poor the facilities or how bad the football is.

Another 7000 will turn up if the Club gets back to the Championship.

No one will come to watch Argyle v Accrington because the quality of the seating is so good.

No one will not come to Argyle v Wolves because they don't like the seats.


When Bill Clinton was running or President he kept reminding himself "It's the economy, stupid" because that's what matters most to the voters.

Brent needs to remind himself "It's a football club, stupid"

The idea of the new stand isn't only to improve match day spectating facilities, but also to improve conference and hospitality facilities that'll allow the stand to be used on non-match days also. Its a move that absolutely makes sense and will provide a much required source of revenue to be invested in the footballing side of the club. The idea to build a new stand carries very few negatives, I believe its only the capacity debate that divides opinion.

And its not going to be long till the mayflower is going to be demed unfit for purpose so it hasnt got long till we are going to be forced to knock it down or close it.

Its fit for the purpose of housing spectators for a football match, but not much beyond that. We need to build a stand that utilises its space greater economically in order to raise additional revenue for the club to compete at a higher level. Its certainly fit for its main and currently sole purpose, its not the rotting carcass that some make out - but I do agree that it needs replacing ASAP.

spowell92 wrote:

Its fit for the purpose of housing spectators for a football match, but not much beyond that. We need to build a stand that utilises its space greater economically in order to raise additional revenue for the club to compete at a higher level. Its certainly fit for its main and currently sole purpose, its not the rotting carcass that some make out - but I do agree that it needs replacing ASAP.  

for now it is but its decaying and old so its not going to be fit in a few years time lets say 5-10 years max. The club could spend money maintaining it to prolong its use but i think it would be easy just to knock it down and replace it in the long run.

What the club needs to get a new Grandstand is someone with money and ambition,After the ministand/retail village fiasco, anyone can see Jimmy will never deliver a new Grandstand or even a decent Burger stand, its all so Village.

a 3k ministand beckons !

I agree Angry, that it needs replacing and all logic points towards knocking it down and building a new stand. But there's a bit of a stalemate with regards to the proposed capacity vs club requirements. Due to lack of finances the shit stand hasn't even got off the ground, so expecting anything the same or better is unlikely.

My words were twist on the other site with regards to this (shock! ), but I would be more willing as a fan to accept the building of a stand (lets say of the 4,800 mark as initially proposed) and the reduction in ground capacity provided it had genuine scope to be expanded over the seasons in a detailed multiphase construction. The plan as previously knocked up obviously limited all possibilities of expansion, but without the commercial side of HHP we could have plenty freedom to extend on the hypothetical new grandstand when necessary or financially viable. In essence, if the council are serious about developing the ground then I'd take the capacity hit on the short term provided it wasn't limiting our ambition over the long term. It would be up to the club then to finance future expansion, but at least it could hopefully be achieved on a more financially viable basis.

spowell92 wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

Building a new Grandstand would be a total waste of money.

7000 fans will turn up no matter how poor the facilities or how bad the football is.

Another 7000 will turn up if the Club gets back to the Championship.

No one will come to watch Argyle v Accrington because the quality of the seating is so good.

No one will not come to Argyle v Wolves because they don't like the seats.


When Bill Clinton was running or President he kept reminding himself "It's the economy, stupid" because that's what matters most to the voters.

Brent needs to remind himself "It's a football club, stupid"

The idea of the new stand isn't only to improve match day spectating facilities, but also to improve conference and hospitality facilities that'll allow the stand to be used on non-match days also. Its a move that absolutely makes sense and will provide a much required source of revenue to be invested in the footballing side of the club. The idea to build a new stand carries very few negatives, I believe its only the capacity debate
that divides opinion.

So can you give me any examples of other football clubs where conference and hospitality (non matchday) provides significant income?

If not I am afraid you have succumbed to the "build it and they will come" fantasies of the Stapes/Kagami era

I think it's been proven beyond doubt that clubs who build new stadiums do see increased attendances(partially down to the novelty factor) although ours would only be a new grandstand so would be unlikely to attract as many newcomers or lapsed fans.

Grovehill wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

Building a new Grandstand would be a total waste of money.

7000 fans will turn up no matter how poor the facilities or how bad the football is.

Another 7000 will turn up if the Club gets back to the Championship.

No one will come to watch Argyle v Accrington because the quality of the seating is so good.

No one will not come to Argyle v Wolves because they don't like the seats.


When Bill Clinton was running or President he kept reminding himself "It's the economy, stupid" because that's what matters most to the voters.

Brent needs to remind himself "It's a football club, stupid"

The idea of the new stand isn't only to improve match day spectating facilities, but also to improve conference and hospitality facilities that'll allow the stand to be used on non-match days also. Its a move that absolutely makes sense and will provide a much required source of revenue to be invested in the footballing side of the club. The idea to build a new stand carries very few negatives, I believe its only the capacity debate
that divides opinion.

So can you give me any examples of other football clubs where conference and hospitality (non matchday) provides significant income?

If not I am afraid you have succumbed to the "build it and they will come" fantasies of the Stapes/Kagami era

Look up the road at Exeter Chiefs for a prime example of a sporting club using the facilities at their ground to generate extra revenue to elevate them to achievements far greater than pure fan-base takings could achieve. Local to me Worcester Warriors is trying to achieve the same - I know for a fact that they're very busy hosting functions and conferences throughout the year for various businesses. A large majority of successful sporting club have realised that there's a massive benefit to turning their stadium into a profitable facility that can be used 365 days of the year rather than solely every other weekend during the season... In fact I can't think of a single club from the top two divisions that doesn't have non-matchday corporate hospitality and conference facilities available. Ours are currently substandard. We're currently not tapping into a potentially valuable additional source of income. I find it absurd that you would reject this as unnecessary.

I'm not sure how you believe this "build it and they will come" fantasy applies in this situation? This is not an Argyle fan exclusive.

The reluctant one's ministand , with its retail outlets was only ever for his personal long term benefit. Boxed in, with slightly better hospitality areas, Hardly likely to inspire, attract or sustain a city club. He wouldn't even commit to a sports bar ffs !

The Trust WG plans were far superior and if PCC/Brent really want the best for the club and city, their plans involving Cottage field need revisiting and some vision re rugby, basketball,ice arena and even cricket, given to the use of  Central Park as a sporting hub of the city.

Surely the reluctant one, who gets it and loves the club, would give up his land grab for the benefit of the janner nation ?

If not, would the dogs be released................ or is an AAA pass more important to their keepers ?