Reality, we drew at home to Morcambe

Where's the anger?

We'll have Sam the trust rep along in a bit with his lengthy match report. Where's the shove to remove cancer from this club? Dreams of a ministand have evaporated yet the board still chase shadows. Are they drawing a wage to do this?

Where's the good folk like John Lloyd (sp)... We've allowed a handful of 'nooligans' to chase them away, or at least silence them. We now rely on Sam, Josh etc

Where the feck are we really going as a football club? Nowhere. Nobody is doing a fekn thing. Sam, Josh et al, can you not see a city of 260k people deserve and demand more than 'village' football? Please don't listen to people like xisle whom never attend but blame those who do.

FFS, fight for this club, it's why you're there.

Where's the money going?

I hear the Morecambe fanfest was a roaring success

Problem is Coxside, where would the anger be directed even if it were to boil over? If you look at PASOTI tonight, there is plenty of stuff aimed at Sheridan but as far as I can see, not a dicky bird about the wider issues facing the club-there seems to be an ill informed presumption that because Argyle get the third biggest gates in the division, then it follows that the manager is operating on the third biggest budget, which you and I know is simplistic nonsense. Maybe it will take another couple of managers and more failure for questions to start being asked but the "he saved us " mentality seems to be very deeply engrained in the majority of fans psyche. The protest and demo route has always been one which Argyle supporters are very reluctant to take-witness the disgraceful lack of dissent [and indeed the puke making support of the action] when Stapleton and co were dismantling our best team in generations in 2007 and which started the slide to oblivion.As Tring says-there must be something in the water, you just can't imagine fans of other big city clubs tolerating matters in the same way.

Hear what you're saying GS, always have done.

Yet we're so accepting on nothingness fed to us from the Trust. These young lads are supposed to be our future but they're not representing us. They have no idea where we came from, how we came to love our club (and city), our time on the terraces.

Without that knowledge and that feeling of what we once enjoyed, how could they ever represent us?

We know a traditional football club owner. We know chancers. We know Brent isn't good for our club. How to explain to these youngsters who now represent us?

We had a meeting with Martyn Starnes today of which the minutes will be released soon. Some information was given which was interesting and was more than what we previously knew. Don't leave the champagne on ice cause I'm not trying to overexcite you by hinting at the minutes but still we did all we could to get could information and we got some information which was useful and you'll see it when the minutes come.

The trust is trying our best to get the transparent information that we can. You may not always see it but the idea that we aren't trying isn't so. We've met with MS, we're meeting him again and we hope to meet with other figures within the club to get more information on the big issues. Again, more will be out when the minutes come.

Understand your frustration and I feel it myself too, but the trust are trying.

I'm not frustrated, I feel sorry for those who are.

When will you actually challenge the shower of shit running our club?

Why is Peter Jones still there? What does he offer?

Ask him.

Sam, as you know I have been a supporter of the Trust. You also know from the last time we met that I am worried about the aTrust paling into insignificance through lack of leadership. Still no chair, so without giving away the contents of the meeting can you let us know who met Martyn? Who took the lead in the conversation?

Coxside_Green wrote:

I'm not frustrated, I feel sorry for those who are.

When will you actually challenge the shower of shit running our club?

Interesting point and people from the Trust are doing a hell of a lot of work at the moment. It is a lot to do and everyone is busy making this happem, meeting things and getting stuff sorted. From what I wondered how much went on from the outside, seeing it you really begin to appreciate the work, the effort and how much everyone puts into the job.

As Sam says, we're working hard and getting places, but it does take time.

I don't want to give away contents simply because I don't think it's right or ethical to leak out bits of the minutes drib drab. We are questioning the club and will continue to do so.

They will be out soon and there won't be any restrictions on content in there, no non-disclosure or anything of that kind. Steps are already in motion to maintain direct and regular contact and that really is all I can say.

Chair will be decided at the next full meeting.

Is there a meeting set up with PCC?
Might be more interesting this close to elections

green_genie wrote:

Is there a meeting set up with PCC?
Might be more interesting this close to elections

Attempting to get one, not got one yet.

I can entirely understand people's frustrations and won't react if people want to direct criticism my way. However, the only thing I would say in response is just because stuff isn't visibly happening doesn't mean that every effort isn't being made behind the scenes because it almost always is. And (this honestly isn't meant in a 'don't question me' kinda way) sometimes it takes being on the inside of the process to realise that.

However, all constructive criticism is valid even if I don't agree with it because ultimately we are voted for and have a duty to our members so I'm happy to keep on engaging on threads like this.

Oh a meeting, when, where?  Are members invited or just another closed shop meet n greet?

Can you please link to this meeting?  It's the 1st I and the silent majority have heard about it.

Ohh, apparently not set up just yet, we need to know who's saying what in private before anything is made public...forget the meetings, we're sick of them...play Brent's 'erald at their own game... ask questions without permission ffs, we do.

Which meeting do you refer to?

You refer to it perhaps sarcastically as a 'meet and greet' but what's the alternative. That all 1,000 Trust members attend every Trust meeting with the CEO, the club owner or PCC? The point is that we're elected as Trust reps and therefore we represent the memberbase in meetings. The same way that in a trade-union, the union reps meet with management rather than every single worker.

There is of course a time and a place for open meetings too open meetings and meetings with reps can go alongside eachother.

By the way, please see the edited amendment to the above post for further clarification of my stance on the issue. I have been over the past year or two as frustrated as you are on this issue and I genuinely mean that. I am hoping now though that constructive dialogue and discourse between PAFC/AFT can continue to take place with us carrying the concerns of the fanbase. It is not cosy, closed shop get togethers over tea and biscuits but it's establishing a professional relationship which serves as a context in which the important questions can be asked. I actually share a lot of your thoughts and would repeat what I said before: just because it looks quiet on the surface doesn't mean the wheels are not in motion to make stuff happen in the future.

Sam.

Which meeting?, the one that wasn't stupid o clock and hastily arranged?

Not that it matters, the members aren't being represented. The occasional online questionaire is open to all.

I've seen the latest young recruit attacking long-standing zoo corner 'customers', trying to tell them how good things are now.

It's a shambles, top down.

I'm no expert on these things.

Why couldn't the Trust stand up and tell JB he has failed to deliver on his promises, the ministand is dead and 2nd tier football is a million miles away, it's transparent if nothing else?

Why couldn't the Trust take over immediately, including all debts and immediately seek a German model ownership. It'd be fresh, it'd be exciting.

Had it been done sooner it could've been a caring trust borrowing £800k to pay the parasititical players off...

Well we are where we are...

Coxside_Green wrote:

Which meeting?, the one that wasn't stupid o clock and hastily arranged?

Not that it matters, the members aren't being represented.  The occasional online questionaire is open to all.

I've seen the latest young recruit attacking long-standing zoo corner 'customers', trying to tell them how good things are now.

It's a shambles, top down.

I'm not trying to be rude here but which meeting do you mean and what question/comment do you have about it? I don't mean to press the point too much and I hate to sound dense but I'm not understanding what you actually have to say about it or even which meeting you mean in the first place.

As for the members being represented, that's a matter of opinion. We're pursuing an ACV application, directing questions to PAFC and deciding Trust policy all based on member consultation. Are you a member (genuine Q). If you are, then why not stand for election and make the Trust run better? If you aren't then why not become one and therefore your voice in the memberbase will mean we represent you too and being an active and participating member will mean you have a personal part to play in shaping policy because we are NOTHING if not the sum of our members.

As for the latter, Josh's personal view, not my view, not a Trust view so I've got nothing to say about it.

Coxside_Green wrote:

I'm no expert on these things.

Why couldn't the Trust stand up and tell JB he has failed to deliver on his promises, the ministand is dead and 2nd tier football is a million miles away, it's transparent if nothing else?

Why couldn't the Trust take over immediately, including all debts and immediately seek a German model ownership.  It'd be fresh, it'd be exciting.

Had it been done sooner it could've been a caring trust borrowing £800k to pay the parasititical players off...

Well we are where we are...

Immediately? Including all debts? So we pay the asking price that Brent wants for the club, then run the club at a profit whilst paying off all the debts without any allowance for making a loss (due to no private owner to subsidise it).

Of course I'm not against Trust ownership but interested as to how we would in this case get past the first hurdle of buying the club. if JB is asking for say 2 million for it (that's just a figure plucked out of thin air) then where do we get two million from? How strict would we have to be with the club's spending knowing there is no way of subsidising losses that are made/no investment? How quickly can the cash be raised? I admire your passions and ideas and I am always happy to have an open/honest debate with you but how are the practicalities going to work? Where's the money coming from in this particular scenario that you detail? What is the German model as you understand it?

Am I wrong to state previous questionaires have been open to all?

Coxside_Green wrote:

Am I wrong to state previous questionaires have been open to all?  

Sorry I understand your point now. Probably me being dense,

Not all of them have been open to everyone, no. The ones that have been also include questions asking to differentiate on the matter of if you are a Trust member or not.

GreenSam wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

I'm no expert on these things.

Why couldn't the Trust stand up and tell JB he has failed to deliver on his promises, the ministand is dead and 2nd tier football is a million miles away, it's transparent if nothing else?

Why couldn't the Trust take over immediately, including all debts and immediately seek a German model ownership.  It'd be fresh, it'd be exciting.

Had it been done sooner it could've been a caring trust borrowing £800k to pay the parasititical players off...

Well we are where we are...

Immediately? Including all debts? So we pay the asking price that Brent wants for the club, then run the club at a profit whilst paying off all the debts without any allowance for making a loss (due to no private owner to subsidise it).

Of course I'm not against Trust ownership but interested as to how we would in this case get past the first hurdle of buying the club. if JB is asking for say 2 million for it (that's just a figure plucked out of thin air) then where do we get two million from? How strict would we have to be with the club's spending knowing there is no way of subsidising losses that are made/no investment? How quickly can the cash be raised? I admire your passions and ideas and I am always happy to have an open/honest debate with you but how are the practicalities going to work? Where's the money coming from in this particular scenario that you detail? What is the German model as you understand it?

The asking price is the debt to Brent, as far as I can tell. That isn't a lump sum. You're just showing naivity and the quality of our 'Trust'.

I wouldn't expect the current Trust to have the finance to buy out JB but they should have some inkling how to go about it.  The German model which includes 49% responsibility for initially buying in (I assume) seems very appealing.

What's your take on this Sam, am I talking bollox?

If you really worked hard and sold the club beyond Plymouth and its local boundaries, you could get some foreigner paying beyond the actual 49% ownership?  Untapped potential and all that.

It's definitely doable, it's how Kagami came on board, albeit he was sold a pup.

Wake me up when this nightmare is over

I'm trying not to even look on here anymore.....................