Rent Increase

Approx 1k a week on average. I would be shocked if anyone in this league was on over 2k and many will be on £500 per week.

I work with a number if agents and more than one has confirmed these figures.

A fair bit of the budget then, still doesn't sound much though.

Dick Trickle wrote:

Approx 1k a week on average. I would be shocked if anyone in this league was on over 2k and many will be on £500 per week.

I work with a number if agents and more than one has confirmed these figures.

It wouldn't surprise me if Reuben and some of the other top strikers in league 2 were on or around 2k...possibly even a touch more with goal bonuses etc. But yeah an average of around a grand seems about right.

TBH I didn't think I'd see the day where train drivers were earning more than pro footballers, mind...

Czarcasm wrote:

TBH I didn't think I'd see the day where train drivers were earning more than pro footballers, mind...

Where were you pre- 1965?

'Everything old is new again...'

Rickler wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

TBH I didn't think I'd see the day where train drivers were earning more than pro footballers, mind...

Where were you pre- 1965?

'Everything old is new again...'

65? Just a mere stirring in my old mans loins at that stage...

Well..  Twas the days when coal miners and Bus drivers etc earned more than your teams goal scoring hero.  Your leading striker probably had his match day breakfast in a local cafe before he caught a bus to the ground.


So I'm told....

When I were a mere slip of a lad and liked to arrive at HP as soon as the doors opened to get my place behind the goal at the BP end so I could (annoyingly) bang the advertising hoarding for hours on end, Johnny Williams was frequently a fellow passenger on the bus from Plymstock...he always sat on the top deck so he could enjoy a relaxing fag.

Life was so much simpler then.

Czarcasm wrote:

Rickler wrote:

GreenHart wrote:

. If PCC invest in the grandstand they will be legally obliged to obtain an open-market rent or at least a rent that is sufficient to repay the capital expenditure within a normal commercial timeframe (25-35 years) 

Who would take up lease on a football stadium apart from Argyle?  I think the 'open market' rent would be practically nil without Argyle bidding.  So I'm guessing the amount needed to repay the capital expenditure is a more likely figure.  And...  I'm not sure your figures are correct on how much the rent would need to be?

I was thinking the same. Obtaining an open market rent, when there is only ever going to be one party looking to take the lease isn't exactly the strongest bargaining position. That said, there will obviously have been preliminary talks between the club and PCC regarding this, which is no doubt how the 400k figure has come to be aired.

If we shared with Albion what could we expect them to contribute towards the rent? What do they pay at Brickfields at the present time?

I think RR is on more than 2K a week.

Les Miserable wrote:

I think RR is on more than 2K a week.

Yep.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

When PCC builds the new stand for Argyle the club's rent will increase to £400K per annum.

My information today was it will be over £500,000 and expect a announcement soon.

Dick Trickle wrote:

Approx 1k a week on average. I would be shocked if anyone in this league was on over 2k and many will be on £500 per week.

I work with a number if agents and more than one has confirmed these figures.

So a squad of twenty four players costs about £1.25 million a year and an average gate of 6000 @£20 x 23 games brings in over £2.5million per year? Then there's sponsorship, TV revenue etc.etc.


On these figures, surely the Club/Brent can pay their own debts without begging from the Local Authority?


Brent should be in the equestrian business, he's taking so many people for  ride.

Rickler wrote:

Well..  Twas the days when coal miners and Bus drivers etc earned more than your teams goal scoring hero.  Your leading striker probably had his match day breakfast in a local cafe before he caught a bus to the ground.


So I'm told....

When Argyle used to get 20000-30000 gates back in the 1950's and players were on the maximum wage,where did all that money actually go? It was an awful lot of tanners to take into the coffers. I suppose the new stand would have cost a bob or two back then but even so....a few tenners in the boots? Chairmans gate? Who knows.

Potentially libellous, but we can let that one go.

I asked our legal mod about it and he told me to feck off.

RR may well be on over 2k a week but his deal will be amongst the top 10 (easily) in L2, if not top 5.

There will be very few on £500 a week, yoof players and stiffs but no 1st teamers.

I've been talking to someone who knows quite a lot about leases etc. You could say they work for a public body and deals with a lot of their leases. Their view is that PCC would have to charge what is seen in any independent valuation as a fair rent but any valuation would take into account all covenants and restrictions on the property. So the fact that Home Park can only be used for professional football would be seen as quite a restriction on the valuation. PCC would have to at least cover the costs of any loan ( interest payments). The loan itself, if indeed that is how PCC pay for it, could vary immensely as PCC could borrow from a wide variety of places with widely differing terms and conditions.

It's not beneficial for PCC or it's tax payers to build something that hasn't got the required space within the stadium for it's tenant ( PAFC) to earn the money to pay at least the rent. That would be totally self defeating and a pointless exercise in building the stand in the first place. It would be hoped that PCC would see the wisdom in building something that enabled the club to pay the rent and earn more money to run the football club. Otherwise the club is not much better off than it is today. No council is going to set something up to fail. ( Or at least they shouldn't be.) It's not within the interest's of PCC or it's tax payers to build something that isn't going to improve the facilities and ability of PAFC to earn money. Again a pointless exercise.

As for the figures being discussed it's highly unlikely any figure would be in the public domain. PAFC and PCC would have had to agree the building plans. Those plans would be valued independently by the district valuer. The business case for building the stand would have gone to at the very least the council cabinet and more likely the full council. A rent can't be agreed until it's been agreed what is going to be built. As there has been no consultation of either PAFC fans or PCC tax payers on what to build it's unlikely there's agreement on what will be built. Hence no agreement on what a rent might be.

Of course there may well have been discussions between PAFC and PCC but any figures of any kind would be commercially sensitive and highly unlikely to be in the public domain. Any figures being bandied about are likely to be highly speculative. Using the figures quoted for building the stand in the HHP development are also speculative. For instance did the cost of building the stand include some of the cost of the car park? Above ground car parks cost approx. £10,000 a space and below ground £12,000. So if for arguments sake 100 spaces of the car park were going to be costed against the grandstand; that's £1.2 million. Without the rest of HHP will a PCC built new stand include a car park?

Now I've said all that I've got a vague recollection that some / all of the covenants were changed? I hope I'm wrong because that would make a difference.

I would also hope that PAFC learn from previous mistakes and consult it's fan base much more widely. I would hope PCC would also consult Argyle fans.

Things get a bit hazy in my tiny brain after a while as regards the whole HHP/Millbay debacle.

Brent was required to build a new stand in return for getting the green light develop HHP, yeah?

Also, before he could get to grips with developing the Pavilions site (ripping out the ice rink) he was required to build a new Ice rink somewhere else, yeah?

We seem to be at the stage whereby it is a given neither of those will be happening, yeah?

I know the forthcoming PCC announcement will probably clarify, but if Argyle are going to be saddled with a rent somewhere around the 4-500k mark AND the ministand is going to be a similar design, it is crucial the Council get their thumbs out of their arses to build something capable of producing the revenue to service that rent. A Sportsbar with the necessary facilities to entice people away from the Brit, Golden Hind, Cherry Tree, Mutley & Stoke village pubs has got to be the biggest priority. Then, if the Council can succeed where Brent failed and entice businesses into the Units earmarked for Akkerons coffers, then the money earned from those lettings will be going to PAFC, not Brent.

I just wish I had more faith in the Council not feckin it up.

Does anyone seriously think that a Bar/Sportsbar, call it what you will-that can only really trade for about 100 hours a year (4 hours per home game) will generate enough profit(or even any profit) to support the football club in any way?


We are back where we were with previous proposals to develop the Home Park area-someone says they'll build a hotel/student accommodation/new stadium for the World Cup/ice rink/leisure centre/anything, and loads of people go "Oh yeah, what a good idea, that'll make loads of dosh" without thinking it through and asking the right questions eg. is there any demand, how much will it cost, does anyone want to fund it, will it make a profit?

The reality is that the club has already gone tits-up once chasing such pie-in-the-sky dreams.


Surely the history of the club over the last ten years should have taught everyone a lesson?

Why replace the Stand? A new stand will not get a single extra paying customer in. If the standard of football improves (ie we get promoted) more people will attend games and they wont give a shite about the stand- no one's ever going to say "Well, I would go and watch Argyle play Wolves, but despite the obvious attraction of Championship football, the fact that part of the ground is unmodernised, means I will not be going"


Every successful club is built on the well tried method of getting things right on the field before worrying about anything else-success on the field leads to a successful club, not the other way round

I think the use of any extra facilities is where the Albion sharing comes in - makes sense to me anyhow!!

I fully support Albion sharing Homepark with Argyle, i think its bound to happen eventually.

Grovehill wrote:

Does anyone seriously think that a Bar/Sportsbar, call it what you will-that can only really trade for about 100 hours a year (4 hours per home game) will generate enough profit(or even any profit) to support the football club in any way?


We are back where we were with previous proposals to develop the Home Park area-someone says they'll build a hotel/student accommodation/new stadium for the World Cup/ice rink/leisure centre/anything, and loads of people go "Oh yeah, what a good idea, that'll make loads of dosh" without thinking it through and asking the right questions eg. is there any demand, how much will it cost, does anyone want to fund it, will it make a profit?

The reality is that the club has already gone tits-up once chasing such pie-in-the-sky dreams.


Surely the history of the club over the last ten years should have taught everyone a lesson?

Why replace the Stand? A new stand will not get a single extra paying customer in. If the standard of football improves (ie we get promoted) more people will attend games and they wont give a shite about the stand- no one's ever going to say "Well, I would go and watch Argyle play Wolves, but despite the obvious attraction of Championship football, the fact that part of the ground is unmodernised, means I will not be going"


Every successful club is built on the well tried method of getting things right on the field before worrying about anything else-success on the field leads to a successful club, not the other way round

I don't think stadium/success is a chicken and egg situation. It's more like ying and yang. You can't have one without the other.

Once upon a time I expect Home Park's pitch had nothing more than a rope around it. I bet the same arguments were being made then.

"I wish we had a stand to keep the rain off."
"No point keeping the rain off. If the team is rubbish nobody'll come so it won't matter and if the team is good they'll come anyway and won't care about the rain."

Obviously at some point the stands were built and then a grandstand... Would anybody prefer we went back to a length of rope?

If the stand is going to be built Grovey, which it appears it actually is, then the point I was making is that every effort should be made to nail every last money-earning facility possible into the blueprint for the build. I'm well aware that a Sports bar isn't going to fund the rent on its own but even under your assertion, and taking the bar as its own entity, a bar that is open for 100 hours a year only accrues the vast majority of its overheads for 100 hours a year. If for that 100 hours it is turning over big revenue, then everyones a winner. In reality of course, it'll be used a lot more than that for all manner of functions if marketed efficiently - again, Argyle gains.

I'd be delighted for there to be no build at all, and hang fire until someone comes in with the wherewithal to do it properly. But if it really is going to happen via the Council, then people should be banging on doors 24/7 to get something built that is futureproof, expandable and able to create maximum revenue for PAFC in every possible way to make servicing the rent viable.

Grovehill wrote:

Does anyone seriously think that a Bar/Sportsbar, call it what you will-that can only really trade for about 100 hours a year (4 hours per home game) will generate enough profit(or even any profit) to support the football club in any way?


We are back where we were with previous proposals to develop the Home Park area-someone says they'll build a hotel/student accommodation/new stadium for the World Cup/ice rink/leisure centre/anything, and loads of people go "Oh yeah, what a good idea, that'll make loads of dosh" without thinking it through and asking the right questions eg. is there any demand, how much will it cost, does anyone want to fund it, will it make a profit?

The reality is that the club has already gone tits-up once chasing such pie-in-the-sky dreams.


Surely the history of the club over the last ten years should have taught everyone a lesson?

Why replace the Stand? A new stand will not get a single extra paying customer in. If the standard of football improves (ie we get promoted) more people will attend games and they wont give a shite about the stand- no one's ever going to say "Well, I would go and watch Argyle play Wolves, but despite the obvious attraction of Championship football, the fact that part of the ground is unmodernised, means I will not be going"


Every successful club is built on the well tried method of getting things right on the field before worrying about anything else-success on the field leads to a successful club, not the other way round

that one no however a cafe by day sports bar by night kind of thing that some places have could.