Shake up of leagues.Subject: FA to consider a new competition for Premier and Championship B teams..   

Oh dear.
Not sure about that. The few Maoris I knew were friendly. They do like a drink though and it can get out of hand, but its usually amongst themselves. NZ has one of the worse rates of domestic violence in the developed world, that's true and unfortunately is bad amongst Maori and pacific islanders. Check out the film once were warriors to get an idea. It is heavy going.

The levels of street violence though are not a patch on England in my experience. When I was going out drinking in Christchurch cannot recall feeling threatened or witnessing anything like what I did many times in england.

Also don't know of NZ fans being involved in sporting related violence, or singing xenophobic chants, or behaving like thugs and criminals. Unlike England fans, which was my original point.

Anyway, it could be that there are just a lot less kiwis than poms in the world.

Or maybe its coz kiwis don't think the world owes them a favour, have gotten over ww2, and don't think that every other nation on earth and the people in them, are crap or in some way inferior a la top gear.

Just a thought.

nzgreen wrote:

... have gotten over ww2...

Just a thought.

Not much of one.

Still managed to use my brain though ay mush.

Thanks to banning orders and the cost, doubt it will be Brazil that the coke freak, drunks of England will be vandalising when they lose. It will be English town centres, and English owned foreign made cars.

Of FFS stop with the tabloid shite that good old Engurlund is the only country with hoolies, it's not, the Polish, Dutch and Germans are well up for it (I mean they started two world wars as well you know) the Turks only fight for a short while before they get their knives out and start killing Leeds fans, as for the Africans they killed somebody the other day lobbing toilet bowls off the top of a concourse. The Italians have the biggest "firms" in football and ride round on scooters lobbing fireworks, flares and the occasional molotov cocktail at their rivals. Occasionally they get off their scooters and stab each other. Russians, FOOKIN hardcore hoolies mate. Brits abroad, soccer hoolies are all wankers but as I've pointed out so can rugger buggers, the biggest scrap I've ever been involved in was between St Austell rugby club and bikers at Carlyon Bay at a Madness gig, it was madness but not a soccer fan in sight, wtf was that all about then?

England's travelling support in Brazil is likely to be relatively small.

I've a pal who has been to just about every England game everywhere for the last 10 years or so, maybe longer, and he's not going to Brazil due to the expense. Apparently the flights there and the internal flights afterwards are outrageously expensive. If he isn't going then many who normally would have gone won't be going either.

I think that it's about two and a half thousand miles to travel from Rio to where we are playing.

Iggy wrote:

Of FFS stop with the tabloid shite that good old Engurlund is the only country with hoolies, it's not, the Polish, Dutch and Germans are well up for it (I mean they started two world wars as well you know) the Turks only fight for a short while before they get their knives out and start killing Leeds fans, as for the Africans they killed somebody the other day lobbing toilet bowls off the top of a concourse. The Italians have the biggest "firms" in football and ride round on scooters lobbing fireworks, flares and the occasional molotov cocktail at their rivals. Occasionally they get off their scooters and stab each other. Russians, FOOKIN hardcore hoolies mate. Brits abroad, soccer hoolies are all wankers but as I've pointed out so can rugger buggers, the biggest scrap I've ever been involved in was between St Austell rugby club and bikers at Carlyon Bay at a Madness gig, it was madness but not a soccer fan in sight, wtf was that all about then?

Totally, other countries have hooligans too. Its England that the rest of world considers to be the top dog for arseholes though, thanks to decades of filmed and verified evidence at virtually every major tournament they managed to qualify for ( which wasnt on their own turf or too expensive to get to).

It is interesting to find someone willing to defend the indefensible, especially with obscure references to rugby fights that no one outside of your own sphere will have heard of.

Iggy wrote:

I think that it's about two and a half thousand miles to travel from Rio to where we are playing.

Would that be Manaus? Who's mayor told Roy Hodgson and England in reply to them bemoaning the humidity of the place, that if they didnt like it they could just feck off back where they came from ( essentially). Good on him. What were they expecting the climate to be like anyway? Its Brazil ffs. Go England! Already winning hearts and minds in Brazil!

You're starting to sound ever so slightly bitter about the Motherland   NZ.

Bitter, moi? 

[quote="nzgreen"]

Iggy wrote:

Of FFS stop with the tabloid shite that good old Engurlund is the only country with hoolies, it's not, the Polish, Dutch and Germans are well up for it (I mean they started two world wars as well you know) the Turks only fight for a short while before they get their knives out and start killing Leeds fans, as for the Africans they killed somebody the other day lobbing toilet bowls off the top of a concourse. The Italians have the biggest "firms" in football and ride round on scooters lobbing fireworks, flares and the occasional molotov cocktail at their rivals. Occasionally they get off their scooters and stab each other. Russians, FOOKIN hardcore hoolies mate. Brits abroad, soccer hoolies are all wankers but as I've pointed out so can rugger buggers, the biggest scrap I've ever been involved in was between St Austell rugby club and bikers at Carlyon Bay at a Madness gig, it was madness but not a soccer fan in sight, wtf was that all about then?

Totally, other countries have hooligans too. Its England that the rest of world considers to be the top dog for arseholes though, thanks to decades of filmed and verified evidence at virtually every major tournament they managed to qualify for ( which wasnt on their own turf or too expensive to get to).



It is interesting to find someone willing to defend the indefensible, especially with obscure references to rugby fights that no one outside of your own sphere will have heard of.

Whose defending the hoolies? Just trying to inject a bit of balance in your anti England slurs. As for the rugger bugger fights try and have a google, whilst your at it check out the amount of damage that kiwis (I'm not sure if the Maori like being describes as kiwis and vice versa, there is a lot of racism from aussies to aboriginals I assume it's the same in NZ?) do to each other. I used to play rugby but have always watched football and as such I am able to offer the ignorant amoung us an insight not available to your average ex pat.   

Interesting read

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Iggy, still think you're comparing apples with pears with yer rugby stuff. Do not accept it. NZ rugby players and or fans are simply not in the same universe as regards disorder as England football supporters.

I'll go further and add that having been to many International, NPC and super 14 rugby games in Christchurch, Dunedin and Invercargill against a wide variety of oppositions local, national and international I have never, repeat never witnessed any disorder, violence or fighting of any description either inside or adjacent to the stadium or in the pubs before or after the games. Also I have never heard in NZ of any reported fan disorder at ANY game of rugby in NZ. Not once.

I was in Australia first during wc 1998, don't think Australia or NZ qualified but anyway, I was truly shocked at the level of antipathy towards Englands chances and was intrigued to learn why. Back then I was a TRUE engerlaand fan. But I just couldn't see how anyone could feel as cold to our campaign from the media right down to the man on the street. And no, it wasn't antipodean jealousy of our footballing prowess, it was because our fans were viewed as a total pack of cnuts. That's why. I've met many others, Europeans especially, on my travels who expressed pity for the english societal disease of drunkeness and disorder. Their perceptions were based in no small part on images of 'our boys' from the 'mother country' tearing apart yet another restaurant in Europe and throwing plastic chairs into the streams of water cannon. I simply had no answer to them.

For your information in NZ, we are all Kiwis. However, Maoris like to be known as just that and NZ' ers who are not Maoris are known in te reo ( the Maori language) as "pakeha".  Racism in NZ does exist and is especially noticeable towards Asians. However this is a view held by a small minority and no political party in NZ, that expresses a xenophobic or racist slant, has anything like the level of support that, for example, the UKIP currently holds.

As for Australia there are indeed racists here too, but the picture is very similar to that described in NZ above.

As for my anti England slurs. If that's how you read it, fine. I was discussing the reasons why I no longer support them.

That all aside, if England supporters in Brazil support the team and behave like human beings, and the England team actually attempt to play football, then regardless of where they finish, I promise to give them and the mother country or motherland ( fatherland just doesn't really do it for me, sorry) a warm round of applause from my sofa in Australia. Promise. Ok treacle?

nzgreen wrote:

That all aside, if England supporters in Brazil support the team and behave like human beings, and the England team actually attempt to play football, then regardless of where they finish, I promise to give them and the mother country or motherland ( fatherland just doesn't really do it for me, sorry) a warm round of applause from my sofa in Australia. Promise. Ok treacle?

No worries bogan.

Dougie wrote:

Interesting read

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Cheers for sharing that. Shows how inherently flawed the commissions' positivist approach is.

That's the first funny thing you said, Bogan!
Bogans wouldn't watch football. V8 supercars or NRL yes, but not football.

Coming back to topic, how about the football league set up a rival top flight currently the CCC. It could negotiate tv deals with BBC, ITV et al and have strict rules on the mandatory number of English players. Those clubs that want to join the pl can ( if they are let in) and the pl could then be cut adrift as the global league that it actually is, hosted and paid for by the English. They can then do what they want, have a euro league, play games in the Americas etc instead of the fa cup, have their own b team leagues what feckin ever and go on drowning in their own debt with the explicit understanding that they are cut off from English football for good.

The new fl could then continue as the actual league of England for England. I think most English supporters such as us lot might warm to it.

I actually thought that Bogans were from the Hitchikers guide?
Anyway I prefer your idea of a new league much more than Dykes vision, however I'm sure the money men would feck it up like they've fecked up the prem, mind you we could wait in line until they get to league 2 then get the millions that will be our ruin. It is more than a little ironic that the money pot in the prem. that we all strive for is the ruination of most things that we hold dear about sport.

For bogan think of a sort of likable chav, into obscure motorsports, mullets, Bundy, crap tattoos, acdc and KFC. Even though I'm a pom, there are times when I have been aware of my inner bogan.

nzgreen wrote:

Still managed to use my brain though ay mush.

Thanks to banning orders and the cost, doubt it will be Brazil that the coke freak, drunks of England will be vandalising when they lose. It will be English town centres, and English owned foreign made cars.

They will be saving that for France in 2016.

Iggy wrote:

I actually thought that Bogans were from the Hitchikers guide?
Anyway I prefer your idea of a new league much more than Dykes vision, however I'm sure the money men would feck it up like they've fecked up the prem, mind you we could wait in line until they get to league 2 then get the millions that will be our ruin. It is more than a little ironic that the money pot in the prem. that we all strive for is the ruination of most things that we hold dear about sport.

That could happen. But not if the ' new' fl had strict rules. For example wage caps, proper financial safeguards on club ownership, ring fencing of a % of tv money for academies and training facilities and safe standing and cheaper tickets and a players agent ombudsman. It could be done, and the tv money could be more than enough to keep the clubs happy especially if it was free to air, people who wanted to watch CCC, l1 or l2 games only could throw in their sky sports subs, which mostly goes to the pl now anyway and watch the league free to air and the tv money would be more than the scraps l1 & l2 get currently. But this would need govt support and the support of the clubs.

Its time the fl played the pl at their own game. Circumvent the fuckers, cut them off at the knees, feck their business model up, let their league be the grotesquely, expensive, debt ridden and unsustainable "product" it is and let the fl get on with providing value for money entertainment, free to air.

There must be an alternative to the current model coz that will see the demise of many clubs league one and below sooner or later. In fact it already has and its only been by arm twisting local councils, bucket rattling, fan owned trusts and dragging in reluctant bidders interested only in land grabs, that, for example, argyle and pompey still exist and I'm sure the pl does not and will not give a flying feck.

Supplemental: without promotion from or relegation to the fl, the premiership will, for all bar the 4 or 5 usual suspects be an empty exercise. Fine by me. Id rather watch a football competition where I genuinely did not know who could win it at the season start. As level a playing field as you could get. Much more exciting in my mind than the last 20 years where it was more often than not, between the same 3 or 4 clubs year in year out. Most of the time it was man U and by a big margin too. Boring boring boring.

Supplemental 2: And for sustainability; whenever a premier league club wanted to muscle in and poach a fl player, in addition to the usual transfer fee, the fl would charge a 'finders fee' of say £10m per player that gets shared equally between the clubs (who will all by default have active academies financially regulated by the fl) as a thank you for investing the time, money and coaching on developing a talent they are now nicking. This money could then be spent further on better coaching and training. Perhaps then the pl clubs will think twice before sticking that player on the bench for the next 5 years and eventually it will be the pl clubs fielding ageing has beens, rejects and journeymen. Not us.