The Devon 'Expressway' Derby, We'll Never Play You Again Match thread.

Mapperley, darling wrote:

would that suggest you are qualified as a statistition? it does to me

Aaaaargh, the word is statistician and all it means is I can continue counting once I have run out of fingers and toes, so more than 27 in your case.

Iggy wrote:

it doesn't mean that you're smarter than me it means you have a different skill set.

Absolutely spot on, all I would say is that when fook'tards like EJH make such a fallacious statement based on an inability to interpret figures it does allow me the scope to pull his fantasies apart. Unfortunately, as with all other thickos, Porky being a particular glaring example, he has no clue how wrong he is. This is a function of the open access to th'interweb, all them kids that sat at the back of the class picking their noses and fondling themselves can now make spurious arguments without the intervention of some virtual board duster.

akagreengull wrote:

but to suggest that somehow Exeter have this great body of away supprt compared to Argyle is complete bollocks.
  

Oh Gully, how can you be so wrong.

I do believe ECFC has a "great body of away support", two guys in a Morris Minor hacking hundreds of miles to support their team is great support, I only mention it when totak fook'tards, yes EJH I do mean you, start bigging up the "Green Army" as though it's summat special.

Don't get me wrong, you Gargs turn up in excellent numbers considering how shiite you have been, and, knuckledraggers excluded, generally get behind the team, especially away from home, but the thirty or so Accies that turned up at Dagenham Tuesday night are every bit as worthy imho.

That's all I am saying.

I am fairly vocal at a game but I don't do "your support is fooking shit", Tisdale's shit smells of roses", "Bradley's mum earns a few quid on the side", "we own our football club" (cringe) or other such crap, get behind your team but respect the proper fan on the other side of the divide is my motto.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Iggy wrote:

it doesn't mean that you're smarter than me it means you have a different skill set.

Absolutely spot on, all I would say is that when fook'tards like EJH make such a fallacious statement based on an inability to interpret figures it does allow me the scope to pull his fantasies apart. Unfortunately, as with all other thickos, Porky being a particular glaring example, he has no clue how wrong he is. This is a function of the open access to th'interweb, all them kids that sat at the back of the class picking their noses and fondling themselves can now make spurious arguments without the intervention of some virtual board duster.

I have torn your 'stats' apart pal, there are no 200 Argyle supporters in the Exeter end (= riots), your core support of 3300 is spurious. So the rest of your figures are bollocks, henceforth.

And you still haven't accounted for the 1800 difference between your highest attendance one season (Sheffield United) and the other (Plymouth Argyle). Both with full away allocations.

Plymouth Argyle will always be your cup final, backed up fully by statistics.

Always your biggest home crowd of the season, always will be.

At least Argyle fans know you are scum and come out to watch, but the difference is Argyle isn't ashamed to admit they are dying to watch your shit team get smashed. For some reason you are embarrassed to be supporting your team.

If I were you I'd be more embarrassed to bring 700 to a game 38 miles away, when you had capacity for more. It is truly one of the most pathetic displays by a football league club for many many years.

Statistics, statistics, damn statistics, can be made to say what ever you want. Ask politicians, especially the ones in power. They are experts in bullshit, bullshit, damn bullshit.

Here's a good example. Argyle average 7,000 ish; Exeter average 3,500 ish; Plymouth is twice the size ( ish) of Exeter, so Argyle's crowds are twice the size (ish). Exeter's attendances jump when Plymouth visit, Plymouth's attendances jump when Exeter visit. There you go, score draw! Both teams are getting what they should be, end of chat.

Richard Blight wrote:

Statistics, statistics, damn statistics, can be made to say what ever you want. Ask politicians, especially the ones in power. They are experts in bullshit, bullshit, damn bullshit.

Here's a good example. Argyle average 7,000 ish; Exeter average 3,500 ish; Plymouth is twice the size ( ish) of Exeter, so Argyle's crowds are twice the size (ish). Exeter's attendances jump when Plymouth visit, Plymouth's attendances jump when Exeter visit. There you go, score draw! Both teams are getting what they should be, end of chat.

Now imagine one prat genuinely believes that the fixture is Argyle's cup final, but not Exeter's, and that is the reason for their pathetic away following  

Fallacious statement. Phrase of the day Tis.    
Rolls around the tongue like one of your fine Merlots.

Richard Blight wrote:

Statistics, statistics, damn statistics, can be made to say what ever you want. Ask politicians, especially the ones in power. They are experts in bullshit, bullshit, damn bullshit.

Here's a good example. Argyle average 7,000 ish; Exeter average 3,500 ish; Plymouth is twice the size ( ish) of Exeter, so Argyle's crowds are twice the size (ish). Exeter's attendances jump when Plymouth visit, Plymouth's attendances jump when Exeter visit. There you go, score draw! Both teams are getting what they should be, end of chat.

Yep, there are "lies, damn lies and statistics", then there is the correct interpretation of the data available.

The facts for this season:-

ECFC got between 700 and 1,000 extra home fans for the visit of PAFC.

PAFC got between 6,000 and 7,000 extra home fans for the visit of ECFC.

That ain't no score draw fellah.

FFS, you got between 5,000 and 6,000 more home fans for the visit of lil ol' ECFC on a Tuesday night than you got for the visit of the mighty, recent FA Cup winning, Pompey in the historic 'Dockyard Derby', on a Saturday.

The use of the word unequivocal can seldom have been more appropriate.

Exeter should never be regarded by any Argyle fan as a big game. When I started watching Argyle, Exeter were just another 4th division club up the road in Devon, just like Torquay. It was donkeys years before I saw Argyle play Exeter. They were always a division or two below us. Local derbies for us were the two Bristol clubs.

The fact that some of our mainly younger fans get excited by an Exeter game is very very sad, just goes to demonstrate the very sad fact that we didn't know what division 4 was until 1996 and we've managed to spend 8 of the subsequent 19 seasons in this dire division; at least half of those from the mismanagement of the people owning / running the club at the time.

Hearing our young fans chant " we hate Exeter" is so sad and pathetic it makes me want to hide under a chair in shame. Reading our president coming out with similar comments in the local press is worse and definitely counter productive.

No disrespect to Exeter ( I know lots of Exeter fans) but this club has always been and should always be in a different league to the likes of Torquay and Exeter. Even worse the likes of Morecambe, Burton, Fleetwood etc, etc. Until that situation is put right it's very difficult to get excited by anything at Home Park. At this moment in time Plymouth Argyle do not deserve to be seen as a league above Exeter etc. Exeter fans should enjoy every minute of it, while we hang our heads in shame.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

Statistics, statistics, damn statistics, can be made to say what ever you want. Ask politicians, especially the ones in power. They are experts in bullshit, bullshit, damn bullshit.

Here's a good example. Argyle average 7,000 ish; Exeter average 3,500 ish; Plymouth is twice the size ( ish) of Exeter, so Argyle's crowds are twice the size (ish). Exeter's attendances jump when Plymouth visit, Plymouth's attendances jump when Exeter visit. There you go, score draw! Both teams are getting what they should be, end of chat.

Yep, there are "lies, damn lies and statistics", then there is the correct interpretation of the data available.

The facts for this season:-

ECFC got between 700 and 1,000 extra home fans for the visit of PAFC.

PAFC got between 6,000 and 7,000 extra home fans for the visit of ECFC.

That ain't no score draw fellah.

FFS, you got between 5,000 and 6,000 more home fans for the visit of lil ol' ECFC on a Tuesday night than you got for the visit of the mighty, recent FA Cup winning, Pompey in the historic 'Dockyard Derby', on a Saturday.

The use of the word unequivocal can seldom have been more appropriate.

The Portsmouth game was on TV, Tis.  You could have added a fair few k to the attendance otherwise.

And in every of the last four seasons, your attendance for the Argyle game was in excess of double your attendance for other league matches. Your 700 extra fans figure is fag packet maths considering you are deciding Argyle fans have been making up the home crowd.

You are clutching at straws, time to give it a rest. If you are one of the most qualified statisticians in Exeter, god help us.

'When I were a lad' Exeter was just a place that you passed on the A38 and I don't ever recall  Argyle playing against Exeter for years and years. We played Torquay pretty frequently in those days but the rivalry was saved for Bristol Rovers, Bournemouth and Portsmouth.

This so called rivalry with Exeter is simply an insincere attempt to passion enthuse and to 'big up' the ego of one or two Argyle fans, it has never really existed. To have a decent rivalry you have to have far more equality than the equality that exist between Exeter City and PAFC.

Personally I would like to see a successful Exeter City, it would be good for football in the Westcountry. That's hardly the words of an opposing rival is it, but I think that quite a few of us see things the same way.

Richard Blight wrote:

Exeter should never be regarded by any Argyle fan as a big game. When I started watching Argyle, Exeter were just another 4th division club up the road in Devon, just like Torquay. It was donkeys years before I saw Argyle play Exeter. They were always a division or two below us. Local derbies for us were the two Bristol clubs.

The fact that some of our mainly younger fans get excited by an Exeter game is very very sad, just goes to demonstrate the very sad fact that we didn't know what division 4 was until 1996 and we've managed to spend 8 of the subsequent 19 seasons in this dire division; at least half of those from the mismanagement of the people owning / running the club at the time.

Hearing our young fans chant " we hate Exeter" is so sad and pathetic it makes me want to hide under a chair in shame. Reading our president coming out with similar comments in the local press is worse and definitely counter productive.

No disrespect to Exeter ( I know lots of Exeter fans) but this club has always been and should always be in a different league to the likes of Torquay and Exeter. Even worse the likes of Morecambe, Burton, Fleetwood etc, etc. Until that situation is put right it's very difficult to get excited by anything at Home Park. At this moment in time Plymouth Argyle do not deserve to be seen as a league above Exeter etc. Exeter fans should enjoy every minute of it, while we hang our heads in shame.

Sums it up for me.Probably about the same timescale as well-i started my HP sentence in 1964 and it was 13 years before Argyle were in the same division,didn't take any notice of Exeter except to read their reports in the Indy on Sunday mornings, by a chap called Gordon Hines as i remember.My father genuinely wished Exeter well-apparently there was no problem between the fans when Argyle played them a time or two when Division 3 South was in existence.No idea why the rather nasty and sometimes vicious rivalries sprang up in the 1970's-it was the same between Cardiff and Swansea as well by all accounts,probably lots of other examples could be found-maybe it was just another manifestation of the violence which marred football in general back then.It was indeed embarrassing to see and hear some of the mindlessly crude chanting and posturing that went on the other night-quite agree,Argyle need to get away from that best team in Devon crap and broaden their horizons somewhat.

Greenskin wrote:

Argyle need to get away from that best team in Devon crap and broaden their horizons somewhat.

Sorry, you just spent two full seasons as definitively the third best side in Devon, you're the ones who should be grabbing this day or two you are currently having in the sun.

ejh wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

The facts for this season:-

ECFC got between 700 and 1,000 extra home fans for the visit of PAFC.

PAFC got between 6,000 and 7,000 extra home fans for the visit of ECFC.

And in every of the last four seasons, your attendance for the Argyle game was in excess of double your attendance for other league matches. Your 700 extra fans figure is fag packet maths considering you are deciding Argyle fans have been making up the home crowd.

You are clutching at straws, time to give it a rest. If you are one of the most qualified statisticians in Exeter, god help us.

Oh dear, oh dear!

You just can't let it go can you?

This is about the numbers of HOME fans turning up to the derbies, do you not get that ?

The numbers are unimpeachable, you got massively more extra fans for your cup final than we ever get for the all too dull visits of your muppet team.

Look, 6,000 extra fans, that's lots, 700 extra fans, that's not very many.

Anybody got any ideas how I can possibly express this in a form EJ will be able to understand, I have never taught infant or remedial, is there perhaps a kindergarten teacher out there who can help?

This little discussion between Tis and EJH does have it's amusing moments.

Richard Blight wrote:

This little discussion between Tis and EJH does have it's amusing moments.

Could you point them out?

knecht wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

This little discussion between Tis and EJH does have it's amusing moments.

Could you point them out?

I must admit you do need a slightly warped sense of humour  

Lord Tisdale wrote:

This is about the numbers of HOME fans turning up to the derbies, do you not get that ?
The numbers are unimpeachable, you got massively more extra fans for your cup final than we ever get for the all too dull visits of your muppet team.

Geddon Tiddles.   I would suggest you weight your historic "derby" figures a little, checking out how many of these derbies have been played on bank holidays, as was often the case, before you put your assumption up for peer review. I would suggest derbies in themselves usually only put roughly 30% more on average gates.  Hardly a cup final thing.
If you are talking of purely the uplift in attendance at Home Park compared with the uplift at st james for these local games ( I take it you do view these games as local ), I would say any absolute difference found in favour of the Home Park attendance record is likely to be more due to the unrequited potential of the much larger Argyle diaspora, than anything to do with who Argyle are playing. It's the inherent nature of numbers and exponential acceleration that can happen with a larger base number, but then you'd know that, being the qualified static man you are.

Winter Green wrote:

Geddon Tiddles.   I would suggest you weight your historic "derby" figures a little, checking out how many of these derbies have been played on bank holidays, as was often the case, before you put your assumption up for peer review. I would suggest derbies in themselves usually only put roughly 30% more on average gates.  Hardly a cup final thing.
If you are talking of purely the uplift in attendance at Home Park compared with the uplift at st james for these local games ( I take it you do view these games as local ), I would say any absolute difference found in favour of the Home Park attendance record is likely to be more due to the unrequited potential of the much larger Argyle diaspora, than anything to do with who Argyle are playing. It's the inherent nature of numbers and exponential acceleration that can happen with a larger base number, but then you'd know that, being the qualified static man you are.

Almost a cogent post there Greeny except that as usual you seem to have mist the gist, little poetic licence there.

All the "historic "derby" figures" were introduced by EJ the Dork, my premise is based as much as possible upon the current mindsets of the two bodies of support, ie. Which set of fans currently see the "Devon Derby" as the bigger occasion?

Bank holidays don't enter into it any more thanks to your knuckle draggers, you came to us on a Saturday, sold your complete allocation and if your quasi KDs who post on here are to be believed had a fair number of interlopers, incognito, in the home areas. We on the other hand got an additional 700 home fans, not a lot of interest there I think even you can agree. Tuesday night saw us unable to sell anything like our maximum allocation, just over 700 making the trip, pathetic I agree, but simply indicative of the importance now placed on the "Derby". The visit of the City to Le Parc des Gnomes on the other hand, on a Tuesday night, drew nearly 7,000 home fans who couldn't be bothered to turn up the previous Tuesday for the visit of your fellow promotion challengers Chesterfield. 7,000 extra Gargs to see the City, and you boys don't care? My arse!

The essence of this diatribe is to try and educate you boys, you simply cannot have it both ways, please feel free to hammer me on the pathetic turn out of City fans for both legs of the Derby this season, but don't you dare try to suggest that the bulk of our support see you as anything more than a run of the mill fixture while the bulk of yours see it as...........your "Cup Final"!

It's the abject cluelessness of the likes of EJ that bring me to the table, he should be doing a Tringy and highlighting the obvious latent support you have, 13,442 (12,500+ Gargs) on a Tuesday night is a great turn out at this level, but he and others just cannot go there because it would shatter his Billy Big Bollox illusion that PAFC is such a big club that its fans could never possibly think more of a game against lil ol' ECFC than is reciprocated.

That's all.

The figures never lie.

Richard Blight wrote:

Exeter should never be regarded by any Argyle fan as a big game.

Nearly 13,000 didn't seem to agree with you Tuesday night Richy, perhaps your finger is more up the arse of the Garg massive rather than on its pulse.

Don't know what the fuss is about, playing Plymouth was our cup final and we won the cup  ! Who gives a toss what you w*nkers think?

Tuppence halfpenny looking down on tuppence.... it's an english tradition.
Meanwhile, in the REAL world, the sun is returning, and flowers are opening their petals ready for a good pollinating.

Sturtz wrote:

Don't know what the fuss is about, playing Plymouth was our cup final and we won the cup  ! Who gives a toss what you w*nkers think?

Tis does obviously.

Q Largest city club never to have played in the top division ?

A The widely-held theory that Hull even held this title in the first place has been discredited. Wiesbaden in Germany, for example, is larger than Hull and has never had a club in the Bundesliga. The city of Ufa in the western Urals of Russia has a huge population of over a million and has never competed in Russia's top flight either. And yet this myth about Hull was mentioned everywhere after the Tigers won the play-offs in 2008 and long into their debut Prem season! In England, the biggest city never to have had a top-flight club is now either Plymouth or Milton Keynes, depending on whose population estimates you believe.

Whether you like it or not, historically Argiggle have been on a par support wise with clubs like Norwich and Southampton. In recent times other clubs like Hull, Reading, Cardiff, Swansea have not been better supported like for like.

The potential is still there. It isn't at Exeter.

Exactly Tring.

In the short-term, I think this season of steady improvement is satisfactory after the terrible last few years we've had. But in the long-run we should be aiming for absolutely nothing less than to be the next Swansea/Hull or Cardiff (without the red shirts).