Brent preferred bidder to buy civic centre

cornysteve wrote:
Saw this on Breakfast news this morning. They had a brief interview with some bloke that I can only assume works for Plymouth council. These aren't verbatim quotes, but it was along the lines of, "Plymouth is so lucky to have a man like JB willing to invest. He's a national, nay international businessman and he's so brilliant. I personally would like to hug him and squeeze him etc etc etc."

Despite my mocking, it was cringeworthy beyond belief. Frankly it looked like he'd witnessed the second coming. (insert your own jokes there). This happening four days after the perfectly legal and upstanding planning meeting that wasn't a fait accompli before it started puzzles me. It was almost as if, and others may have noticed it before, the HHP development was the leverage that opened up the gates for the rest of a massive, lets call it £150m+ or so, development portfolio. Clearly this must be a coincidence. I look forward to the planning meeting for the civic centre, 'I'd like to state that this development that will make me no profit whatsoever, as that is not what philanthropists like me are interested in, is all about making the civic centre a bwilliant bwilliant place to work for the wonderful council workers.'

Steve

Think that was Tim Jones, or 'rent a quote' as he used to be known, (and still may be).

He's certainly made a lot of friends very quickly has our Chairman - similar to how quickly he became an Argyle fan.

It was, indeed, Tim Jones "The Voice of Business In Devon & Cornwall" as he is sometimes billed. And he is or was , I believe, a Property Developer. And he likes Jimmy B. Go figure.

By the way, when the City's name get changed to Brentville (just like a coal-mining Company town in Tennessee) at least the citizens of the re-named Efford - soon to be Brentford - will have a team to support even if it's 200 miles away.

I'll say it again - would you rather the city saved £millions by not having to occupy an unsuitable civic centre and get a 4* hotel etc. as an asset for the city (it's not just money in Brent's pockets as it will boost the local tourist economy) or keep it as it is?

I'd rather not have all the eggs in one basket but it's better to have eggs than no eggs.

People who live in Cities seldom appreciate anything their's has to offer and it is different visiting than living in. I have travelled pretty far and wide in my time and there are few natural harbours in the World that are better than Plymouth's for one example. Locals often think "what view" because they see it anytime they want. Visitors would think "Wow" because it is quite stunning.

Why doesn't anyone talk Plymouth up instead of this continual putting down all of the time? Anyone got any idea how many people come here as tourists? If you walk around the Barbican there seems to be quite a few at any given time so it must be a fairly reasonable number. Quite a few with American accents as well. Who needs anyone else to put the City down though when it has it's very own population to do the job for them.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

People who live in Cities seldom appreciate anything their's has to offer and it is different visiting than living in.    I have travelled pretty far and wide in my time and there are few natural harbours in the World that are better than Plymouth's for one example.     Locals often think "what view" because they see it anytime they want.    Visitors would think "Wow" because it is quite stunning.

Why doesn't anyone talk Plymouth up instead of this continual putting down all of the time?    Anyone got any idea how many people come here as tourists?     If you walk around the Barbican there seems to be quite a few at any given time so it must be a fairly reasonable number.    Quite a few with American accents as well.    Who needs anyone else to put the City down though when it has it's very own population to do the job for them.    

Quite right Sensible. I live near one of the best 'beeches' in the country and people talk it down all the time. I visited Plymouth last week and I love the place.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

People who live in Cities seldom appreciate anything their's has to offer and it is different visiting than living in.    I have travelled pretty far and wide in my time and there are few natural harbours in the World that are better than Plymouth's for one example.     Locals often think "what view" because they see it anytime they want.    Visitors would think "Wow" because it is quite stunning.

Why doesn't anyone talk Plymouth up instead of this continual putting down all of the time?    Anyone got any idea how many people come here as tourists?     If you walk around the Barbican there seems to be quite a few at any given time so it must be a fairly reasonable number.    Quite a few with American accents as well.    Who needs anyone else to put the City down though when it has it's very own population to do the job for them.    

That is true. I've known quite a few vistors who have never seen anything quite like the natural ampitheatre of the Hoe and Sound. Particularly on a warm sunny day like today it's right up there with some of the best places anywhere. No other City has that right next to its centre that's for sure.

Its not bad, but like i said it isnt anything that would make me want to spend anything more then a few days, i certainly would not travel the length of the country to visit Plymouth.
For example if you travel to the Highlands of Scotland you will see scenery that will obliterate anything "plimuff" has to offer, and for every Highlands of Scotland there are probably 10 more in the UK alone that have the same effect, the idea that Plymouth is some kind of natural beauty is a fallacy.
You can walk around the Hoe and the Barbican in less then a day, once that is gone whats left? Near enough every city these days has their own equivalent of the Life Centre or Drakes Circus, and the less said about the City Centre and its clientèle the better.

So do we all, Mouldy - I gave up a brilliant job to move back here. But that doesn't mean we can't ask questions when we see some of the rubbish that's going on, like a cinema in a park and loads of new hotels when the ones we've got aren't bursting at the seams.

And yes, we've certainly got the scenery, but we haven't got a lot of the other things that draw people to cities, like great art, brilliant museums and the like.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

People who live in Cities seldom appreciate anything their's has to offer and it is different visiting than living in.    I have travelled pretty far and wide in my time and there are few natural harbours in the World that are better than Plymouth's for one example.     Locals often think "what view" because they see it anytime they want.    Visitors would think "Wow" because it is quite stunning.

Why doesn't anyone talk Plymouth up instead of this continual putting down all of the time?    Anyone got any idea how many people come here as tourists?     If you walk around the Barbican there seems to be quite a few at any given time so it must be a fairly reasonable number.    Quite a few with American accents as well.    Who needs anyone else to put the City down though when it has it's very own population to do the job for them.    

ere ere Sensible!

Plymouth has it's faults and dodgy areas like anywhere else, the wage is low, prices are high and it's the backwater of the country, but I'm reasonably well traveled in this world and I have also visited many parts of the UK, would I live anywhere else? Like hell I would! And whilst we may not sometimes scream and shout out our presence in the world, I'm pretty happy about that, it keeps the rest of the country from wanting a slice of it.

I know what you're saying Peggy and I agree to a degree, my problem with it is that if we have the same offerings as the rest of the UK, the rest of the UK will be moving here.

Plymouth's natural features are stunning, as a city though its a cess-pitt .. the city centre is dead, shuts early, south of the sun dial is fast becoming an '' enter at your own risk zone''

It depends what you want punchie. You've basically listed things that appeal to a consumer holiday - shopping and a leisure centre. If that's what a 'holiday' is, I'd rather not go on holiday with you. Also, the entire coastline from Salcombe to Rame is not just "not bad", it's awesome (in the literal sense).

People visit places for many reasons - shopping is just one. In my opinion, the Trafford Centre is hell on Earth.

I see the Novotel is closing down, used to go there for Sunday Scran back in the day

Very true Peggy. All towns and cities have their gash areas and Plymouth is no different.
It has so many things around it for people to go to you don't have to stay in the city the whole time.

We stay at the in-laws most Summers. There's not much to do where they live - between Halifax and Bradford but we travel around all over Yorkshire. It's the same here. Most people would find London a bit too much for a week. City breaks wise, Plymouth's really good. We would benefit from an airport or a proper motorway though - but that's another story.

The town centre isn't a cess-pit either. The City Centre company have events all the time. Flavour Fest, the upcoming Seafood Festival and some other events up to Xmas. Shops have shut down but they have everywhere else too.

People laugh at the Ocean City thing but we're marketing the best part of Plymouth - that's a wise thing to do.

hairy j wrote:

It depends what you want punchie. You've basically listed things that appeal to a consumer holiday - shopping and a leisure centre. If that's what a 'holiday' is, I'd rather not go on holiday with you. Also, the entire coastline from Salcombe to Rame is not just "not bad", it's awesome (in the literal sense).

People visit places for many reasons - shopping is just one. In my opinion, the Trafford Centre is hell on Earth.

Fair point, but the way Brent was banging on in the Council chambers with reference more people visiting Plymouth due to  Leisure facilities ie the Life Centre, his Stinking Cinema, Icerinks, Dentist and lord knows what else.
The "Coastline from Salcombe etc" has been here since god was a lad, how is building more hotels going to add value to Plymouth as a tourist attraction when the ones before were not even getting the punters in?

hairy j wrote:

Nothing to do in Plymouth. Hypothetical, I am staying in the 4* hotel in the centre of the City.

Day 1 - take a bus to Admiral's Hard and get on the Cremyl Ferry to Mt Edgcumbe. Wander around the grounds, grab lunch at The Edgcumbe Arms and get the ferry back to Plymouth. I take a right and walk down to the Royal William Yard and have a few drinks overlooking the Tamar. I then take a walk back to the hotel, have a shower and get changed. In the evening, I'm off to the Barbican and I take in a few pubs and decide to have fish n' chips in Platters. A few pints on my way back to the hotel.

Day 2 - I'm off to the Aquarium today - spend four hours there and have a late lunch at Table Table. In the evening, I go to the theatre.

Day 3 - I've booked a canoe trip around Mount Batten and a day of watersports ensues. In the evening, I'm eating at Tanners.

Day 4 - I'm a hiker today so I get on the 84 bus and head out to Yelverton for a day of hiking around the moors. I go for a swim in the Life Centre before an evening meal on the 14th floor.

Day 5 - I'm a keen fisherman so the five people I've come with have hired a boat and we're out fishing. In true fisherman style, we eat what we catch on the boat.

There's a lot to do here and a lot to do that's nearby. The biggest zoo in Europe, the Eden Project, miles and miles of Cornish coastlines, Crealy in Exeter, coastal and moorland walks. A lot of it is free too. The kids are on holiday at the moment and we've had some great days out at Saltram and Mount Batten and spent hardly anything. There's also things you can pay for. If you think there's nothing to do, move to Las Vegas.

that sounds like a holiday a oap would be envious off. Not going to justify the need for hundreds hotels in plymouth.

My argument was not anything to do with the merits of more hotels it was a defence of the City itself.    It is true Peggy that our Museum isn't the best museum but parts of the City are that which is something you can't contain in a single building.    As far as holidays are concerned it's true other places have stunning scenery.    It's a fact that this Island as a whole has as good a view as you will see in any other country in the World known for it's views.    However there are different kinds of views.    Scotland has mountains which Devon doesn't so the type of views will be different.    But the ones we have are as stunning in their own way.    Not many Cities of this size have a coastline on one side and a National Park on the other for example.    There in itself is a contrast of view.    We as a City are reletively central to a lot of other types of places.   People still come here for the stay and use it's location to travel around.    That combined with the "places to go" within the City are attractive.    I doubt the Life Centre is built to attract people from Newcastle.    I suspect the "bringing people to the City" bit is folk from surrounding areas who haven't got one near them.   They also spend money which all counts even if they don't come from abroad or far flung UK places.

Don't talk the City down, leave that to the jealous neighbours up the road who can't compete in any way shape or form. Angry, personally I'm not in favour of attracting the 18/30 crowd like Newquay thanks and many people who aren't OAPs don't want to get permanently wankered as a holiday.

Sensible... please don't forget that ATD exists to talk everything down.....were doomed Mr Mainwaring....were doomed.

On this occasion I'm not talking about ATD being doom and gloom as a matter of course. A number aren't being that. I'm quite proud of this City as a location and for what it has going for it and am just defending that. If people took their blinkers off they would see it easily because it is hard to miss.

Brent isn't going to transform Plymouth into the number one UK tourism location. That's an assumation that I feel some are implying. To criticise the proposal based upon that assumed reason is folly as Brent hasn't said that and nor has Tudor Evans. Making the most of what we have and telling people about it is what this whole tourism thing is centred upon - we need the infrastructure to back that up. We need facilities. A 4* hotel is exactly that and the proposal is quite unique - hotel with an amazing view, a viewing area with restaurant facilities that feature a 360 view of Moorland to the North, the Tamar estuary to the West, the Plym and Saltram to the East and the largest natural harbour in Europe to the South. An arts centre beneath the hotel rooms and access to some very good restaurants and leisure facilities within walking distance.

There is also an asumption that as hotels and restaurants are closing, the need is not there. The hotels we have in Plymouth are being used and we have a severe lack of quality hotels when the Americas Cup is in town, when GMB have their conference here, when the Olympic torch is passed on through the city.

There's also an assumption that the hotel will be huge - it's been reported that a 160 bed hotel is to be built.
That's not that big.

This isn't about the football club, it's about Plymouth.

Your quite right sensible to be proud of your city.....there are other Plymouth's around the world that have their roots from Devon....a reason to be proud.
 
Supporting the local football team around the country has always been proudly done,.....even before free coaches were invented.
 
How sad to hear that Rochdale's ONE coach has had to be cancelled because of lack of interest in filling it.....okay they have access to bigger clubs locally to watch on away days.....but surely that is a downer for the manager and players....but they struggle on mid-table.


ps.......maybe Rochdale fans would prefer to come for the weekend.....but they cannot find suitable 4 star accomodation that is to their liking at present.    

Now that most of my Plymouth relatives are not with us anymore, we have done BB in Plymouth in recent years and have even through the internet have found some dire places to stay.

Sorry we are not negative enough for you Zyph, maybe a different angle and a different smear attempt would help?  

GOB wrote:

Sorry we are not negative enough for you Zyph, maybe a different angle and a different smear attempt would help?  

Please GOB that isn't correct....some on here are too darn negative.....you can hear them dragging their "chip" around like a ball and chain.

Until they stop doing that ATD will just be a load of ex-pasoti rejects.....ATD deserves to be a supporters group with it's own identity and not looking over it's shoulder all the time.....which allows those on pasoti to continue having a smug smile at you all.

Actually I agree with your perception Zyph but that's what it is, it's a personal perception. As you say though, it's "some", not the whole user ship of ATD.

Keep it up, if enough join the site with the same views then that perception can be changed.

Pasoti is now just a commercial and personal publicity machine for James Brent, the fans need and deserve an independent site.

Went to the Hoe for a coffee early evening yesterday, decided to walk down to the barbican, needed a wee, all Council toilet closed the time was 1930hrs, I wonder why the lane smells.

punchdrunk wrote:

I see the Novotel is closing down, used to go there for Sunday Scran back in the day

Punchy, It's going to be levelled to make way for an out-of-town shopping centre.