Akkeron response to WG

punchdrunk wrote:

Back on topic, does anyone else get the feeling that the chances of Akkeron/Brent going ahead with the proposal as it stands are somewhat narrower then what they were 10 days ago?

I do, very much so. The tide has turned firmly I think, Councillors are being persuaded and awareness is being drummed up all over the place.

punchdrunk wrote:

Back on topic, does anyone else get the feeling that the chances of Akkeron/Brent going ahead with the proposal as it stands are somewhat narrower then what they were 10 days ago?

I've always thought putting a large cinema complex and a hotel in Central Park is a complete non-starter. When the good folk of Peverell and Milehouse realise what this entails - traffic, noise at all hours, litter they won't be so keen. The brent lovers think their tiny stand is in the bag. I think they may be celebrating too soon.

me too, im afraid. i can hear the back pockets being stuffed full of cash as we speak. my prediction is: straight through the planning stage and work to start in july.

this really does need derailling, where are the planning experts?

Freathy wrote:

punchdrunk wrote:

Back on topic, does anyone else get the feeling that the chances of Akkeron/Brent going ahead with the proposal as it stands are somewhat narrower then what they were 10 days ago?

I've always thought putting a large cinema complex and a hotel in Central Park is a complete non-starter. When the good folk of Peverell and Milehouse realise what this entails - traffic, noise at all hours, litter they won't be so keen. The brent lovers think their tiny stand is in the bag. I think they may be celebrating too soon.

dont forget their seaviews

The hotel can be built on the carpark i believe there is something in teh central park thing that says that is ok. the cinema isnt though

The cinema and the hotel has turned the argument beyond the fans of Argyle, Brent went 2 steps to far and now I think he's about to get bitten.

Tringreen wrote:

cornysteve wrote:

The thing is that as ATD evolves, it will naturally gain more middle of the road posters. I certainly dont find it as rabid as it was when I first started viewing. Thats not to say that it should end up as Pasoti 2.0. I like it because its a bit more adult. Its more of a pub forum than a youth club, which I see Pasoti as.

I'm as entrenched as anybody against the so called development, but would like to think that if somebody offers a decent argument about any subject that I would take their points on board. Fundementalism in any guise isn't going to bring progress, be it political, religious or in this case a football club.

Welcome to all the recent posters. That your views may be in the minority on here doesn't automatically make them less valid, so fight your corner. As Brian said, 'You're all individuals,' and so am I.

Steve

PS Tring, you are a one trick pony. The trouble is that being right is a pretty good fecking trick.

It has only ever been one trick for me, dear boy. I believe the club should and could be up there, in and out of the Prem, with the rest of the big city clubs. That's all I've ever wanted and thought could be achieved . It was bad enough knowing what was coming next under Stapleton but this latest debacle with the asset stripper, ably supported by flag waving , dimwitted control freaks, is too much to bear.

Anyone, who can push it all to one side and 'talk about the football' ,is not on my wavelength.

It takes all sorts to make a world I suppose.

I do agree with you Tring (first time for everything) that Argyle should be near the top of the Championship and in and out of the Premiership as Hull have recently started doing.

I had a hard time coping with our first visit to the basement in 1995/6.....and then to lose our first six games,four league,two cup.

Being bottom of the league pyramid was beyond my comprehension....having followed Argyle at the time for 45yrs I felt that it was impossible.......but it all changed after that and we were flying.

So recent years and administration have just brought thoughts of this just being a bad dream and I will eventually wake up one year.

Another excellent post from over the way, that will, in all probability be ignored again by the likes of De-Liar and Newell. They seemed to be fecked when faced with a well written, logical and articulate piece.

Anyway, from Steamer.

JB has designed it right.

Remember this whole development has nothing to do with football . . not the real football, passion, belief and the colour of one's blood. It is to do with business and profit. The football bit is just an irritation to the bigger issue which is profit.

It is not difficult to design a stadium which can be enlarged easily should we ever hit the premier league but for some very strange reason JB won't do it. This shouts to me that the football element is dealt with only as a sop to allow the bigger and (I say it again) profitable development to go ahead.

There is a raft of folk on this site who appear to support the football element whole heartedly and just cannot see why anyone could have any worries or doubts. A new stand . . what more can you ask for but there are also a raft of people who want to look further into the future and believe that, one day, we can get and stay in the Premier League (the law of averages say we must get there one day).

The problem is that some say JB is building for the future with the proposed stand because we are only a Championship outfit at the most and really we are no more than a Division 1 team whilst others are sure we have a bigger future.

My view is that we should build the best we can now, which is the new stand but also build the foundations for the future and that means do not carry out any development which prevents us from achieving our dreams. The location of the new access road is quite frankly crazy and this tiny bit of infrastructure is going to rip the dream away from so many fans.

That is why there is so much bile going on with these threads. No one at the top of the club appears to be addressing the real issue which is future expansion of the ground to premier league size. If those at the top won't answer the question, all that is left is that the mob shouts louder and eventually someone throws a rotten egg. People objecting to the development arn't bad people and many of them arn't awkward or difficult. They just want answers from JB and not from anyone else.

All JB has to do is set out in clear terms, how the ground will be enlarged should we reach the premier league and how he can enforce these future plans when the time comes and I am sure most of the folk objecting to the development will quieten down . . over to you JB and this time be honest with the fan base.

ZYPH wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

cornysteve wrote:

The thing is that as ATD evolves, it will naturally gain more middle of the road posters. I certainly dont find it as rabid as it was when I first started viewing. Thats not to say that it should end up as Pasoti 2.0. I like it because its a bit more adult. Its more of a pub forum than a youth club, which I see Pasoti as.

I'm as entrenched as anybody against the so called development, but would like to think that if somebody offers a decent argument about any subject that I would take their points on board. Fundementalism in any guise isn't going to bring progress, be it political, religious or in this case a football club.

Welcome to all the recent posters. That your views may be in the minority on here doesn't automatically make them less valid, so fight your corner. As Brian said, 'You're all individuals,' and so am I.

Steve

PS Tring, you are a one trick pony. The trouble is that being right is a pretty good fecking trick.

It has only ever been one trick for me, dear boy. I believe the club should and could be up there, in and out of the Prem, with the rest of the big city clubs. That's all I've ever wanted and thought could be achieved . It was bad enough knowing what was coming next under Stapleton but this latest debacle with the asset stripper, ably supported by flag waving , dimwitted control freaks, is too much to bear.

Anyone, who can push it all to one side and 'talk about the football' ,is not on my wavelength.

It takes all sorts to make a world I suppose.

I do agree with you Tring (first time for everything) that Argyle should be near the top of the Championship and in and out of the Premiership as Hull have recently started doing.

I had a hard time coping with our first visit to the basement in 1995/6.....and then to lose our first six games,four league,two cup.

Being bottom of the league pyramid was beyond my comprehension....having followed Argyle at the time for 45yrs I felt that it was impossible.......but it all changed after that and we were flying.

So recent years and administration have just brought thoughts of this just being a bad dream and I will eventually wake up one year.

One of my trademark quotes "Wake me up when this nightmare is over"
Sadly the nightmare could be an everlasting one if Brent and his Toadies get their way. Fortunately the Brent bandwagon has had a bad week at the office and his plans seemingly have taken a step backwards meaning there is still hope yet!!

punchdrunk wrote:

Back on topic, does anyone else get the feeling that the chances of Akkeron/Brent going ahead with the proposal as it stands are somewhat narrower then what they were 10 days ago?

Yes punchy i do,the whole half baked plan is starting to come apart, what i can't understand is why would any plymouth argyle fan want the club they support to have a small crap stand !what brent does not understand is that with fans like myself (i only ever speak for myself before some yawner mentions my name) is the club and its long term future comes first, i still hold out a small hope that one day we will reach the top flight, that will never happen if the club is boxed in by a hotel ice rinks shops and crap like tha,t we are a football club not a fvcking shopping mall.

ZYPH wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

cornysteve wrote:

The thing is that as ATD evolves, it will naturally gain more middle of the road posters. I certainly dont find it as rabid as it was when I first started viewing. Thats not to say that it should end up as Pasoti 2.0. I like it because its a bit more adult. Its more of a pub forum than a youth club, which I see Pasoti as.

I'm as entrenched as anybody against the so called development, but would like to think that if somebody offers a decent argument about any subject that I would take their points on board. Fundementalism in any guise isn't going to bring progress, be it political, religious or in this case a football club.

Welcome to all the recent posters. That your views may be in the minority on here doesn't automatically make them less valid, so fight your corner. As Brian said, 'You're all individuals,' and so am I.

Steve

PS Tring, you are a one trick pony. The trouble is that being right is a pretty good fecking trick.

It has only ever been one trick for me, dear boy. I believe the club should and could be up there, in and out of the Prem, with the rest of the big city clubs. That's all I've ever wanted and thought could be achieved . It was bad enough knowing what was coming next under Stapleton but this latest debacle with the asset stripper, ably supported by flag waving , dimwitted control freaks, is too much to bear.

Anyone, who can push it all to one side and 'talk about the football' ,is not on my wavelength.

It takes all sorts to make a world I suppose.

I do agree with you Tring (first time for everything) that Argyle should be near the top of the Championship and in and out of the Premiership as Hull have recently started doing.

I had a hard time coping with our first visit to the basement in 1995/6.....and then to lose our first six games,four league,two cup.

Being bottom of the league pyramid was beyond my comprehension....having followed Argyle at the time for 45yrs I felt that it was impossible.......but it all changed after that and we were flying.

So recent years and administration have just brought thoughts of this just being a bad dream and I will eventually wake up one year.

It is good that we can agree on something. Trouble is, it's not just a bad dream. It is actually happening and our shared opinion that Argyle 'could' support PL football, like Hull, Reading, Swansea, Norwich etc will be dealt a mortal low if Brent is allowed to restrict and box n our stadium.
That is why I keep speaking out, admittedly often howling at the moon because I am far away and don't have the contacts. Fortunately , a lot more respected local Argyle people are now questioning the motives of Brent and his inner sanctum of superfans.
Pasoti today has shown just how much the tide is turning and just how much the Pasoti control group are being found out.

I will bet that the current plans will happen and objections will be ignored. I kept it short on purpose just for Rickler.

Quick question though. Does anyone else on here think that Guilfoyle didn't tell any porkies?

i, for one, think he told some truth during his reign.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I will bet that the current plans will happen and objections will be ignored. I kept it short on purpose just for Rickler.

Quick question though. Does anyone else on here think that Guilfoyle didn't tell any porkies?

It certainly seems a possibility SG. Argyle fans have been mugged massively so nothing would surprise me.

It's the ones that have given up their time to save what they thought was their football club that i feel for, now it turns out that it was all for a hotel and a cinema.

RIP PAFC

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I will bet that the current plans will happen and objections will be ignored. I kept it short on purpose just for Rickler.

Quick question though. Does anyone else on here think that Guilfoyle didn't tell any porkies?

Sensible, I never took you for some Nostradamus, but your continuing certainty in how the future will unfold for all of us leaves me with no other view.

So, I think I feel my own bit of Nostradamus coming on. I am certain and predict (that's geek posh speak for betting ) 100% that you will be wrong at least 50 % of the time, but will never accept that fact 100% of the time. I also predict that you will continue ad infinitum to support the established power base in every subject you take a care to investigate, football or no football. Where do I collect my winnings ?

As for whether the people involved in the administration lied, I'm sure Guilfoyle was one of many. I've seen many attempts to blame the Guilfoyle character for everything, while giving a clean bill of health to Ridsdale, Brent, the previous owners, and in fact everyone else involved in the administration.
I don't believe a word of any of it and would suggest you do the same if you are taking bets.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I will bet that the current plans will happen and objections will be ignored. I kept it short on purpose just for Rickler.

Quick question though. Does anyone else on here think that Guilfoyle didn't tell any porkies?

If they do happen, as far as im concerned PAFC can take a running jump, i aint never spending another pound supporting that shower ever again..whats the point?
My gut feeling though is that the Brent Cabal are on the ropes with these "plans"

Now I'm worried erm...worried. I'm not supporting anything establishment in my statement. The question was do people think the new build will be derailed. I have answered no it won't. That's not actually a prophecy it's an opinion and it isn't supporting anything either. Just saying what I think if that's ok.

The other question was because Rickler said that I refuse to believe something because Guilfoyle said it and he wouldn't lie because he is an officer of the Court. My whole point was that Guilfoyle was accused of lying or rather bending truths many times by many on here in the past so why should I take one thing, that there were other interested parties and believe that when plenty think he lied about so much. I've still never heard a name for any of these people and Heaney was outed when it was supposed to be secret yet other names remained hidden. But somehow I'm refusing to admit all the proof is there.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Now I'm worried erm...worried. I'm not supporting anything establishment in my statement. The question was do people think the new build will be derailed. I have answered no it won't. That's not actually a prophecy it's an opinion and it isn't supporting anything either. Just saying what I think if that's ok.

The other question was because Rickler said that I refuse to believe something because Guilfoyle said it and he wouldn't lie because he is an officer of the Court. My whole point was that Guilfoyle was accused of lying or rather bending truths many times by many on here in the past so why should I take one thing, that there were other interested parties and believe that when plenty think he lied about so much. I've still never heard a name for any of these people and Heaney was outed when it was supposed to be secret yet other names remained hidden. But somehow I'm refusing to admit all the proof is there.

As quite a new fella to these parts i hope that ATD can accept your opinion - The only thing I would say is that many fans feel snubbed by the deal in general and this COULD force an adverse and spectacular effect to the outcome!! This whole episode should have all been about how Mr Brent united our fanbase, instead he has chosen a route which will eventually alienate the very base any football club owner desires - but of course all that depends on whether the FOOTBALL CLUB was ever reason for saving it!!?

I don't think the plan will collapse or change one jot because of what us as fans say or do.

I think the plan will collapse because it is crap.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I don't think the plan will collapse or change one jot because of what us as fans say or do.

I think the plan will collapse because it is crap.

I don't think a worst plan could have ever been thought up, it's poor from so many angles - problem is many say 'money talks' and at that point, if it sails through, the politcal establishment will be scrutinised bigtime!! This never had to be this way!!

If the city get a head of steam up, it really could be touch and go. Who would have thought the residents of Liverpool could have stopped the mighty Liverpool FC in Stanley Park. It's all about momentum and publicity as with all such big projects. Even the local Council don't always get their way in such matters.

worried of penzance wrote:

If the city get a head of steam up, it really could be touch and go. Who would have thought the residents of Liverpool could have stopped the mighty Liverpool FC in Stanley Park. It's all about momentum and publicity as with all such big projects. Even the local Council don't always get their way in such matters.

That's beacause Scousers won't put up with flannel - Janners? I'm almost tempted to end posts now with 'it didn't have to be this way mr Brent'!!

Bandwagon wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

If the city get a head of steam up, it really could be touch and go. Who would have thought the residents of Liverpool could have stopped the mighty Liverpool FC in Stanley Park. It's all about momentum and publicity as with all such big projects. Even the local Council don't always get their way in such matters.

That's beacause Scousers won't put up with flannel - Janners? I'm almost tempted to end posts now with 'it didn't have to be this way mr Brent'!!

But you have Bandwagon ?


Far more scousers.....far more power.

Unfortunately, it's opportunism that will win. The economic climate is the worst I've ever experienced within Local Government. We thought last year was bad. This next twelve months are going to be even worse. The cuts to the budgets mean that PCC simply have to rely upon external, private finance to develop anything. It's no surprise that a Tory Government (I don't believe the Lib Dems are any different and it's not a real coalition) is sat on top and forcing the public sector to be reliant upon private investment, shareholders and very rich individuals to develop areas.

James Brent is more than aware of this. He's an opportunist and nothing more. I cannot believe he'd rather see us win 3-1 than see his business interest turn a 1% larger profit. Would he rather be top of League 2 next year or the top hotel provider in the UK? Some say, 'who can blame him?' or 'if he makes a profit, good for him!' - I don't agree with that as he's an opportunistic, bullying capitalist who's taking complete advantage over a very bad situation. I have no idea what Chris Webb is doing supporting this. If some rich banker bought Royal Mail, he'd shit actual bricks.

All this PROPER FAN nonsense is exactly that, utter nonsense. If you were a proper fan, you'd have absolutely no interest at all in a cinema or hotel or how asset rich James Brent can become. You'd be 100% behind getting the very best, the biggest and the most impressive football stadium possible; no compromise, no corner cutting. You'd want the best training facilities possible - there's been no talk about that and if Brent was such a FAN, he'd ditch the hotel completely and put that money into redeveloping Harpers Park into a World class training academy. You'd want the biggest stand possible - a 30,000 all seater stadium. You'd want a development that is 100% related to football and our club.

The more I see of this whole situation, the more angry I get. Fans supporting a capitalist shoukd be utterly ashamed. Where are these 'dogs of war'?

Yes Hairy. I said on a post over there that all the pages of anger and in-fighting would disappear if JB came out and said that he could only deliver a 4,800 stand now (with provision for expansion) because he's putting £2million into the playing budget next season.

hairy j wrote:

It's no surprise that a Tory Government (I don't believe the Lib Dems are any different and it's not a real coalition) is sat on top and forcing the public sector to be reliant upon private investment, shareholders and very rich individuals to develop areas.

A good post Hairy, although conducted as legal sales, the above private investment is a euphemism for a land and asset grab effected by money pulled out by the corporate executive class during the big banking/investment wheeze that has bankrupted many western nation states. Big adjustments in power are afoot and have been since the globalised piracy started in earnest back in the 80s under Reaganomics.
Over the centuries there have been several such moves and people could do worse than understand just what happened in this country under the Enclosure Acts concerning common and public land, and the resulting Poor laws. They don't win every battle, far from it. This latest bunch were repelled for the time being when they tried to grab the national woodlands when the Tories came to power, but they will try again, as well as continue their targeting of the National Trust, the public rights of way, the coastal paths etc. It's going on in the background under the radar.

A few years back, PCC had something like £600m of assets, and it was clear some of them were up for sale. What better time for the Westminster Palace to forbid local councils any traditional avenues of gaining the income they need.
They say turkeys don't vote for Christmas ... well they certainly do on Pasoti, but then some turkeys are always given a pass out of the slaughter room by leading everyone else into it.