Keith Todd v Paul S

Norris threw a tantrum and was determined to leave

SEB had a release clause

Gosling - no idea

GOB wrote:

You don't speak to people like this in a pub then, fokead?

A bit of respect never goes amiss Mr Gob! Good old fashioned values, love em!

I don't know anything about Sturrocks relationship with those players.

I do know Akos was not Ollies favourite player.

I also know that nobody at the Club could not halt the sale of Sylvan, he wanted to go and there was a clause in his contract (a contract he wouldn't sign without the clause being inserted) saying that if we were to be offered £1.5million he had to be released.

I also think that to stand in the way of any player wanting to move to a Premiership club at the age of 17 would have been out of order.

I also know that to refuse a transfer request by a player (Norris) leads to a lose lose situation for all.

There is no loyalty in football. There is no fault in players wanting to move on. Every club is a selling club, every player has a price. Spurs can't hang on to Bale - what chance of Argyle hanging on to Ebanks Blake?

[quote="Czarcasm"]

Noseyparker wrote:

I'm sat here waiting for a tirade of negativity against the likes of PS, even though you have made some very interesting points that back up some things I said.

Sadly there are lots of people on here who believe lies and made up stuff against the "old" board.

Nobody is perfect and mistakes were made but decisions were not made to bring the club down. Like I said yesterday decisions were made without having the benefit of hindsight. Lots of people make ridiculous statements starting in "they should have done....". These statements ARE with the benefit of hindsight

Thanks for putting the record straight Damon, I hope some people have the good grace to admit their tirade against the likes of PS were (and still are), unjustified.

"Puts tin



You're obviously looking for an ATD reaction. I find it bizarre that you'd try to get one here with our bijou following. Why not try the preach tactic to a far far wider audience on Pasoti?

The gameplan is obviously to strike while the iron is hot, as regards Peter Jones all-time low currently. In my book that makes you a bit of a shyster.

Your mate Stapleton was an integral part of Argyles' demise. He obviously didn't have the balls to stand up to Todd, and was just content to be trying to hang on to Todd/Gardners coat tails in case the funding/World Cup bid actually materialised.

He failed. His Argyle epitaph is set in stone. He's a cnut amongst cnuts.

No Mr Czarcasm, I am afraid you are wrong, I am not looking for a reaction. I'm simply putting some balance into a ridiculously 1 sided argument.

I find debate can be an interesting thing to do, but I guess a modicum of intelligence is required for it to be upheld on both sides without it degenerating into a slanging match

I think you are clearly upset that an awful lot of things you have believed over the years are clearly wrong. Please feel free to comment on Damon's latest post, after all, that man clearly knows more fact on here than any of us!

Who was it who gave Stapleton's phone number out on Pasoti and led a campaign to bombard him with calls, texts and emails to warn him off a return to Argyle or something like that?

Release the dogs

[quote="Noseyparker"]

Czarcasm wrote:

Noseyparker wrote:

I'm sat here waiting for a tirade of negativity against the likes of PS, even though you have made some very interesting points that back up some things I said.

Sadly there are lots of people on here who believe lies and made up stuff against the "old" board.

Nobody is perfect and mistakes were made but decisions were not made to bring the club down. Like I said yesterday decisions were made without having the benefit of hindsight. Lots of people make ridiculous statements starting in "they should have done....". These statements ARE with the benefit of hindsight

Thanks for putting the record straight Damon, I hope some people have the good grace to admit their tirade against the likes of PS were (and still are), unjustified.

"Puts tin



You're obviously looking for an ATD reaction. I find it bizarre that you'd try to get one here with our bijou following. Why not try the preach tactic to a far far wider audience on Pasoti?

The gameplan is obviously to strike while the iron is hot, as regards Peter Jones all-time low currently. In my book that makes you a bit of a shyster.

Your mate Stapleton was an integral part of Argyles' demise. He obviously didn't have the balls to stand up to Todd, and was just content to be trying to hang on to Todd/Gardners coat tails in case the funding/World Cup bid actually materialised.

He failed. His Argyle epitaph is set in stone. He's a cnut amongst cnuts.

No Mr Czarcasm, I am afraid you are wrong, I am not looking for a reaction. I'm simply putting some balance into a ridiculously 1 sided argument.

I find debate can be an interesting thing to do, but I guess a modicum of intelligence is required for it to be upheld on both sides without it degenerating into a slanging match

I think you are clearly upset that an awful lot of things you have believed over the years are clearly wrong. Please feel free to comment on Damon's latest post, after all, that man clearly knows more fact on here than any of us!

A lot of the things people were made to believe stemmed from Pasoti and the "insiders" telling people that's how it was.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

I don't know anything about Sturrocks relationship with those players.

I do know Akos was not Ollies favourite player.

I also know that nobody at the Club could halt the sale of Sylvan, he wanted to go and there was a clause in his contract (a contract he wouldn't sign without the clause being inserted) saying that if we were to be offered £1.5million he had to be released.

I also think that to stand in the way of any player wanting to move to a Premiership club at the age of 17 would have been out of order.

I also know that to refuse a transfer request by a player (Norris) leads to a lose lose situation for all.

There is no loyalty in football. There is no fault in players wanting to move on. Every club is a selling club, every player has a price. Spurs can't hang on to Bale - what chance of Argyle hanging on to Ebanks Blake?

Damon, can you confirm that Norris left a message on a senior persons phone saying he would never play for the club again?

Sorry NP - all after I left - I heard the rumour it had happened but didn't hear it myself so can't confirm it.

But why was the value of the buy out clause so low. At the time he was the top goalscorer in the championship with 13 goals. He was worth double the price we got for him in my opinion. Argyle always seemed to sell themselfs short when selling players on.

Why is this ?

Noseyparker wrote:

Norris threw a tantrum and was determined to leave

SEB had a release clause

Gosling - no idea

How disappointing! Thought you were all knowing in all things Argyle from that particular era.Very much a pity because i was going to ask a further couple of questions,such as why did Argyle make a profit of £1.1m in the season that they were supposed to be "going for it"? And also your interpretation of an interview with Mr Stapes in the Red and Black club,Tavistock on 6th December 2008 in which he stated "We are not a selling club and Paul [Sturrock] can keep everybody if he wants too"? Still got the interview on DVD,always nice to have solid evidence to back up one's thoughts and opinions,don't you think Mr Nosey Parker?

Dane. wrote:

But why was the value of the buy out clause so low. At the time he was the top goalscorer in the championship with 13 goals. He was worth double the price we got for him in my opinion. Argyle always seemed to sell themselfs short when selling players on.

Why is this ?

Dane - he wasn't top scorer in the Championship when we signed him - he was a reserve team player at Manchester United. That's when the contract was drawn up.

I understand that. But 1.5 mil still seems a low price to have as a buy out clause. Was it ever attempted to offer him a new contract and re-negotiate that clause ?

[quote="Noseyparker"]

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

I don't know anything about Sturrocks relationship with those players.

I do know Akos was not Ollies favourite player.

I also know that nobody at the Club could halt the sale of Sylvan, he wanted to go and there was a clause in his contract (a contract he wouldn't sign without the clause being inserted) saying that if we were to be offered £1.5million he had to be released.

I also think that to stand in the way of any player wanting to move to a Premiership club at the age of 17 would have been out of order.

I also know that to refuse a transfer request by a player (Norris) leads to a lose lose situation for all.

There is no loyalty in football. There is no fault in players wanting to move on. Every club is a selling club, every player has a price. Spurs can't hang on to Bale - what chance of Argyle hanging on to Ebanks Blake?

Damon, can you confirm that Norris left a message on a senior persons phone saying he would never play for the club again?[/quote]

He still cared for the club enough to donate to the staff fund though.

We paid £200k rising to £300k with add-ons. A 500% increase as a sell on clause was pretty good Dane. Sylvan was only half way through a three year contract. The time for renegotiation would have been at the end of the 2007/8 season. He didn't wait that long.

Damon, Argyle do not have a good track record for deciding when to renew contracts. Cant remember what summer it was now, but one year we had about 6-7 players all out of contract in one go.

The time to renegotiate was surely when it first appeared that Ebanks-Blake was one of the best strikers in the league. But no not argyle, small time to the core. Always have been and always will be .

Just because he was half way through a contract doesn't mean you cant discuss an extension which could have included a revised figure for the sell on clause.

Swansea have just rewarded Laudrup with a new contract he hasnt even been there a year yet. I guess they have a different way of thinking though

I used to defend Paul Stapleton on pasoti - not because I had any inside information but because the dogs of war were after blood and that's never attractive and never a side I want to be on. I also used to suggest that the real villains were Todd & Gardner. When PS did his interview for the local radio he intimated that more information would come out at some later time. I hope he writes his book - after getting cast-iron advice from his lawyers. It just seemed so obvious to me.

Damon appears to be answering questions fully and openly and when he doesn't know the answer he simply says "don't know". He has also said that mistakes were made. If anyone has never made a mistake then they have never stepped outside their comfort zone and actually tried anything! Unless anyone is going to say he is lying then it must at least be conceded that he is telling the truth as he knows it. He certainly should have more information than anyone else on here.

As for Nosey being on here to provoke a reaction .... I think that is true. But there's nothing wrong with that is there? He's simply forcefully putting a contrary view and appears to have some inside information. ATD could do with strongly held contrary views otherwise it gets too cosy.

As for Ebanks-Blake ... signing a reserve player for £2/300,000 and agreeing to a sell-on at £1.5 million seems a good deal to me.

Im not saying it wasnt a good return. it was...... but i felt it could have been better

Damon ..... Is it true that within a very small time of being at the club Tony Pulis handed in a Document outlining everything the club needed to take the next step ? He suggested many times that off the field the club was still being run like a league 2 outfit

Greenskin wrote:

Noseyparker wrote:

Norris threw a tantrum and was determined to leave

SEB had a release clause

Gosling - no idea

How disappointing! Thought you were all knowing in all things Argyle from that particular era.Very much a pity because i was going to ask a further couple of questions,such as why did Argyle make a profit of £1.1m in the season that they were supposed to be "going for it"? And also your interpretation of an interview with Mr Stapes in the Red and Black club,Tavistock on 6th December 2008 in which he stated "We are not a selling club and Paul [Sturrock] can keep everybody if he wants too"? Still got the interview on DVD,always nice to have solid evidence to back up one's thoughts and opinions,don't you think Mr Nosey Parker?

Sorry to disappoint you Mr Greenskin!

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

I don't know anything about Sturrocks relationship with those players.

I do know Akos was not Ollies favourite player.

I also know that nobody at the Club could not halt the sale of Sylvan, he wanted to go and there was a clause in his contract (a contract he wouldn't sign without the clause being inserted) saying that if we were to be offered £1.5million he had to be released.

I also think that to stand in the way of any player wanting to move to a Premiership club at the age of 17 would have been out of order.

I also know that to refuse a transfer request by a player (Norris) leads to a lose lose situation for all.

There is no loyalty in football. There is no fault in players wanting to move on. Every club is a selling club, every player has a price. Spurs can't hang on to Bale - what chance of Argyle hanging on to Ebanks Blake?

Akos may not have been Holloways favourite player but that didn't stop him from picking him for 8 out of the 12 matches prior to his departure in 2008.

Your comments about Gosling sum up for me why this club has never really taken off and achieved what it is capable of.Six months at Argyle would have done his career no harm at all,especially since he would have been playing more first team football at HP than he did at Everton.Not to mention the wider issue of his presence in the squad being very benefiicial in helping the push for promotion-who knows,it may have been instrumental in getting Argyle up,from where he would have had a premier base anyway.No mention of the aspirations of the fan base,no wonder the wider public in the area is so apathetic about the club.

I'm well aware that there's no loyalty in football.There is such a thing though as showing the necessary ambition and wherwithal to convince players that their personal goals can be reached at HP.I would surmise that Norris and Ebanks Blake would not have been persuaded in any way that their futures lay at HP by the departure of Buzz and Gosling and the certain knowledge that inferior players would be brought in to replace them.Puzzles me who a club like Swansea,starting from a position of far less strength in every way than Argyle,could keep hold of their best players on their rise up through the leagues and add to them at the appropriate time.Why would that be? Something in the water up there or a genuine desire on the part of their upper tier of their management to progress the club? The latter,i would suspect.

knecht wrote:

I used to defend Paul Stapleton on pasoti - not because I had any inside information but because the dogs of war were after blood and that's never attractive and never a side I want to be on. I also used to suggest that the real villains were Todd & Gardner. When PS did his interview for the local radio he intimated that more information would come out at some later time. I hope he writes his book - after getting cast-iron advice from his lawyers. It just seemed so obvious to me.

Damon appears to be answering questions fully and openly and when he doesn't know the answer he simply says "don't know". He has also said that mistakes were made. If anyone has never made a mistake then they have never stepped outside their comfort zone and actually tried anything! Unless anyone is going to say he is lying then it must at least be conceded that he is telling the truth as he knows it. He certainly should have more information than anyone else on here.

As for Nosey being on here to provoke a reaction .... I think that is true. But there's nothing wrong with that is there? He's simply forcefully putting a contrary view and appears to have some inside information. ATD could do with strongly held contrary views otherwise it gets too cosy.

As for Ebanks-Blake ... signing a reserve player for £2/300,000 and agreeing to a sell-on at £1.5 million seems a good deal to me.

Yes it was,from an accountants view point.Begs the question whether in some minds Argyle were an ambitious football league club or an outlet of Mrs Thatcher's grocery shop.

Greenskin wrote:

knecht wrote:

I used to defend Paul Stapleton on pasoti - not because I had any inside information but because the dogs of war were after blood and that's never attractive and never a side I want to be on. I also used to suggest that the real villains were Todd & Gardner. When PS did his interview for the local radio he intimated that more information would come out at some later time. I hope he writes his book - after getting cast-iron advice from his lawyers. It just seemed so obvious to me.

Damon appears to be answering questions fully and openly and when he doesn't know the answer he simply says "don't know". He has also said that mistakes were made. If anyone has never made a mistake then they have never stepped outside their comfort zone and actually tried anything! Unless anyone is going to say he is lying then it must at least be conceded that he is telling the truth as he knows it. He certainly should have more information than anyone else on here.

As for Nosey being on here to provoke a reaction .... I think that is true. But there's nothing wrong with that is there? He's simply forcefully putting a contrary view and appears to have some inside information. ATD could do with strongly held contrary views otherwise it gets too cosy.

As for Ebanks-Blake ... signing a reserve player for £2/300,000 and agreeing to a sell-on at £1.5 million seems a good deal to me.

Yes it was,from an accountants view point.Begs the question whether in some minds Argyle were an ambitious football league club or an outlet of Mrs Thatcher's grocery shop.

Exactly my point greenskin.

To me argyle lost the top goalscorer in the league. Could they have found a suitable replacement for the 1.5 mil we got for him?

Not a chance!!!!!! The club should have Maneuvered its self into a better position, so that when we sell a player we can re-invest and buy better to keep the team moving forward.

But argyle loved rolling over and having its belly tickled.

Great business on the balance sheets, but a day out at wembley or queuing for a season ticket for a season in the premier league was what fans would have remembered more

Greenskin wrote:

knecht wrote:

.........
As for Ebanks-Blake ... signing a reserve player for £2/300,000 and agreeing to a sell-on at £1.5 million seems a good deal to me.

Yes it was,from an accountants view point.Begs the question whether in some minds Argyle were an ambitious football league club or an outlet of Mrs Thatcher's grocery shop.

I agree (though to use St Margaret in your argument is a low dirty blow). But we've been told by Damon - and I think it was common knowledge previously - that SEB wouldn't sign the initial contract unless that clause was in it.

Noseyparker wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

Noseyparker wrote:

Norris threw a tantrum and was determined to leave

SEB had a release clause

Gosling - no idea

How disappointing! Thought you were all knowing in all things Argyle from that particular era.Very much a pity because i was going to ask a further couple of questions,such as why did Argyle make a profit of £1.1m in the season that they were supposed to be "going for it"? And also your interpretation of an interview with Mr Stapes in the Red and Black club,Tavistock on 6th December 2008 in which he stated "We are not a selling club and Paul [Sturrock] can keep everybody if he wants too"? Still got the interview on DVD,always nice to have solid evidence to back up one's thoughts and opinions,don't you think Mr Nosey Parker?

Sorry to disappoint you Mr Greenskin!

As a Plymouth Argyle supporter for 49 years,i am perfectly used to deflationary emotions,Mr Nosey Parker.