Argyle valued at £2million ???

There's a thread on PASOTI with the same topic title and a poster '12ftpinkmonkey' has posted a bunch of figures he claims were taken from a business linked website accessed through some intranet thingy in his workplace. Apparently these figures give some explanation how Brent/his advisors have arrived at the £2m valuation.

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Quote :

Argyle are valued at 2 million based on projected income over the 3 years.

Gate receipts ( which he projected )

1st year: £3,264,000 at an average ticket price of £17 @ average attendance of 8000
2nd year: £5,016,000 at an average ticket price of £19 @ average attendance of 11000
3rd year: £5,472,000 at ana verage ticket price of £19 @average attendance of 12000

Total : £13,752,000

Merchandise Sales estimated in the region of £1,750,000
Totalling £15,502,000

Company Tax p.a @ 14.5% = £1,069,103.44

Player wages expenditure @ £1,716,000
Energy bills for the year @ approx £750,000
Maintenance expenditure @ approx £ 500,000
Administration repayment agreement @ £1,000,000 pa for 7 years
Travelling expenses @ £312,000pa
Plymouth Council Repayment @ £217,675pa for 3 years
Bank Loan repayment @ £102,000pa for 6 years
Possible Shortfall estimation @ £ 2-3million per year

Total income/expenditure @ £15,502,000 minus £12, 692, 128 = assests value of £2,805, 872

Assuming the above is kosher, the club is worth feck all.

I got as far as the projected attendance figures.

The rest is irrelevant after those figures.

*Edited to add - irrelevant is a poor choice of word. What I mean is the maths will never add up with those wildly optimistic attendance figures.

In fact, I do hope those figures weren't the one's presented to the Football League as part of the process for exiting admin.

If they were, then it just goes to show that the FL are even more gullible than I feared.

Exactly the reason why the Trust should keep its potential for raising cash tightly locked away for the rainy day that's waiting for us around the corner, it'll be the day that Brent has completed his land grab development.

Average attendance year 2: 11,000

Er James old boy I think we need a quiet word.......

11k average next year ffs.

Yeah we're really fuckin saved!

It's the same stunt that Stapes pulled when he over inflated the club value to gain himself a few extra bob.

The projected attendance figures probably came from the same people that said we are only 1 or 2 players away from a good team.

not shocking really when you consider we have no assets because the millionaire james brent couldnt afford to buy the club if the council didnt buy the land.

The only question to arise is when will the next administration will take place.

I have to agree with Gob on this one, the Trust really needs to build a solid foundation and be in a position to buy the club as we enter administration the next time round.
One thing I am puzzled about though is where did this report really come from? Are there tricks being played here? It wouldn't be the first time would it? This could for example and just throwing an idea around be someone who is connected with Argyle, who is in the loan shark/payday loan business, who has a connection to someone who maybe has access to multi accounts on pasoti putting some figures out there to gain sympathy for our new owner and get everybody to rally around the club.
Another thing that strikes me as odd is the figures, approx. £500k approx £750k, I have had accountants draw up cash forecasts for my businesses in the past, they tend to work with figures like £478,378.32 instead of approx. £500k. I might point out that my businesses have never turned over millions but accountants crunch real numbers and come up with real figures not approximations that vague.
The other thing that makes me wonder is why if we don't hit those attendance figures will JB have to fund the shortfall? Surely less fans means less staff and less costs?
This all revolves around the figure of 8k fans this year, has the OP just picked up on the 8k because it has been mentioned on these boards? All in all I can smell pork, something isn't right. It is either that 12fttallpinkpiglet has made it all up for some attention or it's all leaked lard.

Iggy wrote:

I have to agree with Gob on this one, the Trust really needs to build a solid foundation and be in a position to buy the club as we enter administration the next time round.
One thing I am puzzled about though is where did this report really come from? Are there tricks being played here? It wouldn't be the first time would it? This could for example and just throwing an idea around be someone who is connected with Argyle, who is in the loan shark/payday loan business, who has a connection to someone who maybe has access to multi accounts on pasoti putting some figures out there to gain sympathy for our new owner and get everybody to rally around the club.
Another thing that strikes me as odd is the figures, approx. £500k approx £750k, I have had accountants draw up cash forecasts for my businesses in the past, they tend to work with figures like £478,378.32 instead of approx. £500k. I might point out that my businesses have never turned over millions but accountants crunch real numbers and come up with real figures not approximations that vague.
The other thing that makes me wonder is why if we don't hit those attendance figures will JB have to fund the shortfall? Surely less fans means less staff and less costs?
This all revolves around the figure of 8k fans this year, has the OP just picked up on the 8k because it has been mentioned on these boards? All in all I can smell pork, something isn't right. It is either that 12fttallpinkpiglet has made it all up for some attention or it's all leaked lard.

That's a good point Iggy, where did the information come from? Why is it being released now, just prior to the Trust decision making? Could it be yet another double plot for those that hide in darkened corners of the directors box? Could it be that someone would like to put Trust members off buying into the club?

Who knows but if there's a bad smell it would be foolish to invest.

If the Trust buy into this then it have to be purely an emotional investment because nobody in their right mind would touch what appears to be a buy in to a very dodgy deal indeed with a few dodgy characters involved.

I see that "mr optimistic" who started the thread joined pasoti only a few days ago and "12ftpinkmonkey" who posted the information also joined pasoti recently.

To use TwoFaced judgement values, it maybe that those dark corners are coming to life once again.

I have thought for a long time that the trust should steer clear of this deal, this was obvious when they were sidelined by the creation of pasalb. For there £400k they would have no influence over anything at the club, save the money and take over when we go bust after relegation, unless of course Fletch pulls off another miracle this year.

Interesting, if someone states something that isn't in line with the polit bureau on pasoti the threads are stalked by the moderators and PL2Faced normally comes out with some sort of childish slur, yet on this thread there isn't a moderator in sight despite being asked by a pasoti user and it's 4 pages long!

I sense a attachment but it's fun to watch

Coxside_Green wrote:

There's a thread on PASOTI with the same topic title and a poster '12ftpinkmonkey' has posted a bunch of figures he claims were taken from a business linked website accessed through some intranet thingy in his workplace. Apparently these figures give some explanation how Brent/his advisors have arrived at the £2m valuation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :

Argyle are valued at 2 million based on projected income over the 3 years.

Gate receipts ( which he projected )

1st year: £3,264,000 at an average ticket price of £17 @ average attendance of 8000
2nd year: £5,016,000 at an average ticket price of £19 @ average attendance of 11000
3rd year: £5,472,000 at ana verage ticket price of £19 @average attendance of 12000

Total : £13,752,000

Merchandise Sales estimated in the region of £1,750,000
Totalling £15,502,000

Company Tax p.a @ 14.5% = £1,069,103.44

Player wages expenditure @ £1,716,000
Energy bills for the year @ approx £750,000
Maintenance expenditure @ approx £ 500,000
Administration repayment agreement @ £1,000,000 pa for 7 years
Travelling expenses @ £312,000pa
Plymouth Council Repayment @ £217,675pa for 3 years
Bank Loan repayment @ £102,000pa for 6 years
Possible Shortfall estimation @ £ 2-3million per year

Total income/expenditure @ £15,502,000 minus £12, 692, 128 = assests value of £2,805, 872

Assuming the above is kosher, the club is worth feck all.

Methinks the info is contaminated with pork and the games are still being played

Viva aviva

Hard to believe anyone could take those figures seriously, I have produced more convincing stuff on the back of a fag packet to split an Indian meal between a dozen drunks after a night on the lash.

They are expecting to pay a million a year in Corporation Tax ?

If the OPer really is some sort of business advisor then it is easy to see why the country is in the doo doo.

This is not of course a serious valuation of PAFC, in fact I am not sure it wasn't penned by Cobi or one of his acolytes, Brent wants £400k for 20%, the £400k is not the issue but more the ring fencing of potential future income from any Trust activity. ECFC Trust paid something like £30k for the majority stake, we have subsequently stumped up way over a million pounds to keep the good ship ECFC afloat, it is that and I would suspect substantively more that Jimbob is angling for, trouble is while we went from bust to up and running with our Trust as a single unifying force the actions of the Webbed footed one and his partner in crime ripped the very guts out of yours, whether this was at their master's behest will remain open to conjecture, but the fact is that now he is in the hot seat Little Jimmy is beginning to see the road ahead and the thought of a couple or three thousand trust members stumping up a nice few quid to fund the train wreck is starting to look like a good idea until he can get his hotel built and have it away with the cash.

Were I to be in the business of proffering advice where it was not wanted I would say jump in with both feet now, assuming you have the filthy lucre, just make sure that enshrined in your articles is the principle that all future funding of the club is done on the basis of long term interest free loans, that is the best way you as fans might be able to exert some influence should the good ship PAFC run aground once more and be subject to the vagaries of Aministration.

Thinking on perhaps that isn't the best plan, JB is far too sneaky to allow himself to be caught out by circumstances and holding 80% he could pretty much do what he liked, the status and rights of minority shareholders are much over stated. He would probably do much better to move the club on to some carpet bagging tow rag before the poo really hit the fan, The Riddler all over again, any Trust loans would probably still give you some leverage but 25% of total debts is the golden figure, I doubt it would have been beyond Harry and the Porkers to pile up sufficient poo to make you irrelevant.

Is Argyle worth £2 million ?

Of course it is, as long as the deal for the building of the new stand is on a reasonably equitable basis, you would have in a few years a century old business with achievable earnings of up to £10 million p.a. You don't necessarily need to make a profit to be worth money, how much was Storey ripping out of Pompey for years while they piled up the debts ?

I would say 2 Bar was an undersell, the only caveat being that you would need to see a somewhat enhanced management structure in place, which for the moment doesn't seem too likely.

Happy days.

ps. Sorry about the length of this post, as an outsider brevity and pith should be my watchwords, I just find the Machiavellian aspect of the whole issue fascinating.

On the subject of Mackie (avellianism), any chance of the sell on fee?

Grumpy wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

There's a thread on PASOTI with the same topic title and a poster '12ftpinkmonkey' has posted a bunch of figures he claims were taken from a business linked website accessed through some intranet thingy in his workplace. Apparently these figures give some explanation how Brent/his advisors have arrived at the £2m valuation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :

Argyle are valued at 2 million based on projected income over the 3 years.

Gate receipts ( which he projected )

1st year: £3,264,000 at an average ticket price of £17 @ average attendance of 8000
2nd year: £5,016,000 at an average ticket price of £19 @ average attendance of 11000
3rd year: £5,472,000 at ana verage ticket price of £19 @average attendance of 12000

Total : £13,752,000

Merchandise Sales estimated in the region of £1,750,000
Totalling £15,502,000

Company Tax p.a @ 14.5% = £1,069,103.44

Player wages expenditure @ £1,716,000
Energy bills for the year @ approx £750,000
Maintenance expenditure @ approx £ 500,000
Administration repayment agreement @ £1,000,000 pa for 7 years
Travelling expenses @ £312,000pa
Plymouth Council Repayment @ £217,675pa for 3 years
Bank Loan repayment @ £102,000pa for 6 years
Possible Shortfall estimation @ £ 2-3million per year

Total income/expenditure @ £15,502,000 minus £12, 692, 128 = assests value of £2,805, 872

Assuming the above is kosher, the club is worth feck all.

Methinks the info is contaminated with pork and the games are still being played

Viva aviva

It's either pork double dealing or someone wants the Trust to keep its distance because they are aware that the club is a financial suicide waiting to happen or, a new player with a different agenda has joined in the game. This'll be worth watching

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hard to believe anyone could take those figures seriously, I have produced more convincing stuff on the back of a fag packet to split an Indian meal between a dozen drunks after a night on the lash.

They are expecting to pay a million a year in Corporation Tax ?

If the OPer really is some sort of business advisor then it is easy to see why the country is in the doo doo.

This is not of course a serious valuation of PAFC, in fact I am not sure it wasn't penned by Cobi or one of his acolytes, Brent wants £400k for 20%, the £400k is not the issue but more the ring fencing of potential future income from any Trust activity. ECFC Trust paid something like £30k for the majority stake, we have subsequently stumped up way over a million pounds to keep the good ship ECFC afloat, it is that and I would suspect substantively more that Jimbob is angling for, trouble is while we went from bust to up and running with our Trust as a single unifying force the actions of the Webbed footed one and his partner in crime ripped the very guts out of yours, whether this was at their master's behest will remain open to conjecture, but the fact is that now he is in the hot seat Little Jimmy is beginning to see the road ahead and the thought of a couple or three thousand trust members stumping up a nice few quid to fund the train wreck is starting to look like a good idea until he can get his hotel built and have it away with the cash.

Were I to be in the business of proffering advice where it was not wanted I would say jump in with both feet now, assuming you have the filthy lucre, just make sure that enshrined in your articles is the principle that all future funding of the club is done on the basis of long term interest free loans, that is the best way you as fans might be able to exert some influence should the good ship PAFC run aground once more and be subject to the vagaries of Aministration.

Thinking on perhaps that isn't the best plan, JB is far too sneaky to allow himself to be caught out by circumstances and holding 80% he could pretty much do what he liked, the status and rights of minority shareholders are much over state. He would probably do much better to move the club on to some carpet bagging tow rag before the poo really hit the fan, The Riddler all over again, any Trust loans would probably still give you some leverage but 25% of total debts is the golden figure, I doubt it would have been beyond Harry and the Porkers to pile up sufficient poo to make you irrelevant.

Is Argyle worth £2 million ?

Of course it is, as long as the deal for the building of the new stand is on a reasonably equitable basis, you would have in a few years a century old business with achievable earnings of up to £10 million p.a. You don't necessarily need to make a profit to be worth money, how much was Storey ripping pout of Pompey for years while they piled up the debts ?

I would say 2 Bar was an undersell, the only caveat being that you would need to see a somewhat enhanced management structure in place, which for the moment doesn't seem too likely.

Happy days.

Some interesting stuff in that My Tisdale.

GOB wrote:

Some interesting stuff in that My Tisdale.

All conjecture though Gobby, this is always the issue with the suits, cards held so close to the chest from the abject fear of being sussed for what they are, "Riders on the Storm".

When the wind blows the suits reap the benefits for little or no real input, when the storm comes they usually exit laughing their pockets stuffed with the cash that should have been the seed corn for the new harvest.

It has always been thus, Tizzy, and the REAL damage is the next harvest .. that's what bankrupts communities and puts them in hock. If it weren't for the Ridsdale input, I firmly believe we would have a Trust owned club by now... maybe 3 levels lower, but we would be united behind it, no matter who was elected.
Ken livingstone has an interesting take on these sort of cycles, where the suits can only carry out their same old grab once those that remember the last steal have all died.... then it's PAYDAY ! all over again.

Penzance wrote:

It has always been thus, Tizzy, and the REAL damage is the next harvest .. that's what bankrupts communities and puts them in hock. If it weren't for the Ridsdale input, I firmly believe we would have a Trust owned club by now... maybe 3 levels lower, but we would be united behind it, no matter who was elected.
Ken livingstone has an interesting take on these sort of cycles, where the suits can only carry out their same old grab once those that remember the last steal have all died.... then it's PAYDAY ! all over again.

Bang on the head Penz!

I Home Park and Central Park owned entirely by PCC and a club owned by the fans seems a heavenly dream, even if it was playing at several levels lower.

I think you hit the nail on the head Gob with the fact that Pl2 is all over those that want to know whether Newell has a role at the club asking how long they have posted, where they were in the war, but the ops of this post, nothing, zilch, nada, maybe they are busy sorting something out?

Penzance wrote:

It has always been thus, Tizzy, and the REAL damage is the next harvest .. that's what bankrupts communities and puts them in hock. If it weren't for the Ridsdale input, I firmly believe we would have a Trust owned club by now... maybe 3 levels lower, but we would be united behind it, no matter who was elected.
Ken livingstone has an interesting take on these sort of cycles, where the suits can only carry out their same old grab once those that remember the last steal have all died.... then it's PAYDAY ! all over again.

Ken Livingstone is a suit, maybe a new labour suit but non the less a suit, he used to be a good socialist, not now though, anyway I digress.

Personally, I take that 'leak' with a huge pinch of salt. It's just not credible.

The figures for the staff repayment and the ground rent have been disclosed previously and are very different. You can look back to the Pasoti Q&A before the summer for example.

What also sticks out for me is £750,000 p.a. for energy/electricity. That's a huge figure.

A strange post indeed.

Tim