It's a sad reflection of all that is wrong in our society. When we have government authorities being so dishonest it reflects throughout society and once again will provide a green light for people to take advantage of a legally corrupt system that lacks any sense of justice that isn't criminal.
In the past we've had a society that by and large was educated to understand that moral judgement often sat outside of the law and that law alone was not enough to hold society together. It was drummed into some of us by our parents that "just because it's legal it doesn't make it right"!
When will our leading politicians, people in positions of government power, bank executives, local councilors, police, BUSINESSMEN etc. understand the basic concept of decency, honesty and respect, WHEN? - Or do they just intend to continually cheat and deceive the average person that works his ass off and has a far higher moral judgement than some of the scum that has once again added to the perception that this country is run and lead by CNUTS!
It's a sad reflection of all that is wrong in our society. When we have government authorities being so dishonest it reflects throughout society and once again will provide a green light for people to take advantage of a legally corrupt system that lacks any sense of justice that isn't criminal.
In the past we've had a society that by and large was educated to understand that moral judgement often sat outside of the law and that law alone was not enough to hold society together. It was drummed into some of us by our parents that "just because it's legal it doesn't make it right"!
When will our leading politicians, people in positions of government power, bank executives, local councilors, police, BUSINESSMEN etc. understand the basic concept of decency, honesty and respect, WHEN? - Or do they just intend to continually cheat and deceive the average person that works his ass off and has a far higher moral judgement than some of the scum that has once again added to the perception that this country is run and lead by CNUTS!
It's a sad reflection of all that is wrong in our society. When we have government authorities being so dishonest it reflects throughout society and once again will provide a green light for people to take advantage of a legally corrupt system that lacks any sense of justice that isn't criminal.
In the past we've had a society that by and large was educated to understand that moral judgement often sat outside of the law and that law alone was not enough to hold society together. It was drummed into some of us by our parents that "just because it's legal it doesn't make it right"!
When will our leading politicians, people in positions of government power, bank executives, local councilors, police, BUSINESSMEN etc. understand the basic concept of decency, honesty and respect, WHEN? - Or do they just intend to continually cheat and deceive the average person that works his ass off and has a far higher moral judgement than some of the scum that has once again added to the perception that this country is run and lead by CNUTS!
"Government authorities being dishonest"...now please tut tut,what do you expect from people like Cameron,Osborne and No 1 buffoon Boris.
All Members of the Bullingdon Club a secret society dining club at Oxford...mainly for aristocratic and the super riches offsprings....who had to book meeting rooms in secret because of their wild parties....usually leaving the venue totally trashed including a michelin star restuarant once.
It's a sad reflection of all that is wrong in our society. When we have government authorities being so dishonest it reflects throughout society and once again will provide a green light for people to take advantage of a legally corrupt system that lacks any sense of justice that isn't criminal.
In the past we've had a society that by and large was educated to understand that moral judgement often sat outside of the law and that law alone was not enough to hold society together. It was drummed into some of us by our parents that "just because it's legal it doesn't make it right"!
When will our leading politicians, people in positions of government power, bank executives, local councilors, police, BUSINESSMEN etc. understand the basic concept of decency, honesty and respect, WHEN? - Or do they just intend to continually cheat and deceive the average person that works his ass off and has a far higher moral judgement than some of the scum that has once again added to the perception that this country is run and lead by CNUTS!
"Government authorities being dishonest"...now please tut tut,what do you expect from people like Cameron,Osborne and No 1 buffoon Boris.
All Members of the Bullingdon Club a secret society dining club at Oxford...mainly for aristocratic and the super riches offsprings....who had to book meeting rooms in secret because of their wild parties....usually leaving the venue totally trashed including a michelin star restuarant once.
They know how to live and look squeaky clean.
Lets blame Cameron now...amazing?
How about the scum Union representatives who backed their police members in all their lies, the police who lied on mass (all working class scum), the Sheffield Wednesday stewards who were scarce, the Sun (not a tory broad sheet)....don't see many Bullingdon Club members here. Continue taking your benefits and blame the rich boys all you like. Thatcher yes (females are not allowed to be members of the Bullingdon club), Major (probably a member), super rich Labour Scum Blair or Brown...all prime ministers involved in cover up....Cameron is the PM who didn't cover it you tw@t.
Suppose you can't blame the police or the stewards, they were just doing their jobs...the truth is these working class boys were not doing their job and lied about their involvement in the death of 96 football fans. Every copper that day lied.
It's a sad reflection of all that is wrong in our society. When we have government authorities being so dishonest it reflects throughout society and once again will provide a green light for people to take advantage of a legally corrupt system that lacks any sense of justice that isn't criminal.
In the past we've had a society that by and large was educated to understand that moral judgement often sat outside of the law and that law alone was not enough to hold society together. It was drummed into some of us by our parents that "just because it's legal it doesn't make it right"!
When will our leading politicians, people in positions of government power, bank executives, local councilors, police, BUSINESSMEN etc. understand the basic concept of decency, honesty and respect, WHEN? - Or do they just intend to continually cheat and deceive the average person that works his ass off and has a far higher moral judgement than some of the scum that has once again added to the perception that this country is run and lead by CNUTS!
"Government authorities being dishonest"...now please tut tut,what do you expect from people like Cameron,Osborne and No 1 buffoon Boris.
All Members of the Bullingdon Club a secret society dining club at Oxford...mainly for aristocratic and the super riches offsprings....who had to book meeting rooms in secret because of their wild parties....usually leaving the venue totally trashed including a michelin star restuarant once.
They know how to live and look squeaky clean.
Oh and Blair, Mandelson, Campbell and co were all squeajky clean of course. And the Sinclair enquiry was a great success for the Labour government when Jack Straw promised a fresh new inquiry wasn't it?. All political parties have more than their share of dishonest and slimy politicians, not just the one.
Our government... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.
Louis D. Brandeis
An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.
The legal system is either corrupt or designed to serve only the professionals involved. All society is controlled by accountants, the House of Commons is stuffed with both types of self serving cnuts the rest are snivelling ex researchers. The police are invariably all Masons. If you expect justice or a fair and equitable society move abroad.
So we now have the admission that South Yorkshire Police fed inaccurate info to The Sun to deliberately undermine the complaints of the Liverpool at the time. The inaccurate information was disgusting and unfounded and found its way on to the front page of The Sun courtesy of its editor Kelvin MacKenzie. One of those most affected by the events was Bruce Grobelaar and he often spoke out about what happened only a few feet away from him on that day and has always supported the Hillsborough campaigners. Later Grobelaar's reputation is shattered after The Sun films him during a sting that showed Grobelaar to be involved in match fixing and Kelvin MacKenzie puts the story on the front page. Since then we have had the whole Milly Dowler, News of the World, Leveson thing and we know that there were no depth too low for them in the pursuit of a story whether true or not. Grobelaar was obviously setup all that time ago but then we always knew that. I'm now wondering about quite how bent that setup was. If that case came to trial now would he ever be convicted?
So we now have the admission that South Yorkshire Police fed inaccurate info to The Sun to deliberately undermine the complaints of the Liverpool at the time. The inaccurate information was disgusting and unfounded and found its way on to the front page of The Sun courtesy of its editor Kelvin MacKenzie. One of those most affected by the events was Bruce Grobelaar and he often spoke out about what happened only a few feet away from him on that day and has always supported the Hillsborough campaigners. Later Grobelaar's reputation is shattered after The Sun films him during a sting that showed Grobelaar to be involved in match fixing and Kelvin MacKenzie puts the story on the front page. Since then we have had the whole Milly Dowler, News of the World, Leveson thing and we know that there were no depth too low for them in the pursuit of a story whether true or not. Grobelaar was obviously setup all that time ago but then we always knew that. I'm now wondering about quite how bent that setup was. If that case came to trial now would he ever be convicted?
There's a whole ton of "what ifs" about to crop up, what if the Taylor Report proved to be a complete waste of time?
Just read an amazing thread on Pasoti which started just before the Hillsborough Enquiry outcome was made public, which started about safe standing areas.
The amazing part of it is that even after all the overwhelming evidence that came to light from the INDEPENDENT enquiry, all of the apologies offered since it has been published, that there are still people blaming drunken, ticketless scousers!
Unbelievable that it takes 23 years for the truth to come out. If you travel and meet people it will restore your faith in human nature, nearly everybody out there will drop what they are doing to help you out. Now compare that to the police and government and it destroys said faith. Safe standing has been mentioned here, all of the present laws were a direct response to this disaster, would we still be made to sit and have alcohol banned in the stand if the truth had come out at the time? The saddest thing is that with the cover up it has taken 23 years to be exposed so that in that time that it has taken for the truth to come out no lessons have been learned about the mistakes that were made by police/emergency services at the time. This should be the purpose of these inquiries, not necessarily to dish out justice which is the job of the courts, but to learn, amend working practices and to try to make sure that something similar never happens again, thank god that it hasn't or some consciences would be one load heavier than they are already. Justice for the 96.
There isn't a person alive who has never made a mistake. I made a few when I worked but the difference between me and a Brain Surgeon is my mistakes cost little and they burried theirs. The unforgivable part of this is that so many conspired to cover up the mistakes that were made. It is always tragic when somebody goes for a day out and never comes back. Ultimately nobody set out to get anyone killed when they got up that morning. One thing I always did was hold my hand up and admit I'd done something wrong. As said my mistakes weren't tragic but nonetheless I learned very early in my working life that the truth will out in the end and the consequences are always 10 times worse than if you had admitted your mistakes at the outset.
I listened to that Chief Constable today who was a senior officer at Hillsborough on the day. He said he has nothing to be guilty about even if he did say that the Scousers were not to blame. He denied having any dealings with altering statements. Maybe he didn't but he did not say he was not aware of them being altered. If the man had any honour whatsoever he would stop wriggling and man up. I will bet he retires shortly. If it was found years ago when all of the police there were still in the force that this had happened, the chances are they would have been sacked without pension. Anyone found to be guilty now should have their pension stopped and be made to repay what they have received. Bet this doesn't happen. What I find hardest to swallow is the wholesale complicitness in this. How did nobody blow the whistle.
Coxside_Green
Posts : 1555 Join date : 2011-05-29
Subject: Re: Hillsborough Enquiry Sat 15 Sep 2012, 00:47
All I can add to this is I watched Hillsborough (1996) again last night and I was all but tears. That takes a fair bit.
There's corruption all over the world, 3 strikes you're dead etc (if you're lucky) in some countries (less in others).
The guilty parties have now lived 23 years. We don't live in democracy, we never have!
Flat_Track_Bully
Posts : 983 Join date : 2012-04-24
Subject: Re: Hillsborough Enquiry Sun 16 Sep 2012, 09:22
Greenjock wrote:
Just read an amazing thread on Pasoti which started just before the Hillsborough Enquiry outcome was made public, which started about safe standing areas.
The amazing part of it is that even after all the overwhelming evidence that came to light from the INDEPENDENT enquiry, all of the apologies offered since it has been published, that there are still people blaming drunken, ticketless scousers!
The problem is that a lot of people just want to be told what to think. If the police/government say something they just accept it as true and assume anyone else is lying. There are a couple of people on that thread effectively saying 'well the police said it was the fans fault so I believed them'. Despite incidences like the Miner's Strike, Birmingham Six, Guildford 4, Blair Peach, Charles De Menezes, The Levenson enquiry, Ian Tomlinson etc they never quite 'get it' that you can't always trust what the police and politicians say. Such people often hold strong political views based off nothing more than what they are fed through the press, they lack the capability to critically analyse anything that happens. The big problem is that these people make up a significant proportion of the voting public, which is why we are stuck with a bunch of political parties who are basically taking us for a ride while lining their own pockets and those of the people who run big businesses.
pepsipete
Posts : 14772 Join date : 2011-05-11 Age : 86 Location : Ivybridge
Subject: Re: Hillsborough Enquiry Sun 16 Sep 2012, 10:05
In a General election there is roughly speaking a 60% turnout, of those circa 20% always vote for the same party Tory, Labour, etc. 20% vote against the sitting party hoping a change will improve things. Thus the election is decided by approx 20% of the electorate.
That's how rivalry should be. Not so far gone that it's inhumane. With all the publicity surrounding United v Liverpool on Sunday I doubt all United fans will be so generous.
That rivalry seems to be built on hatred. Liverpool fans also singing about the Munich disaster is disgusting.
Did anyone watch the Channel 4 programe tonight entitled "The Truth about Hillsborough"? If no heads roll then there is going to be an even bigger outcry than there is now. Truely shocking. I must hold my hands up and say I was willing to believe Liverpool fans brought this on themselves and said as much before. So did loads of other people. How very wrong we all were.
And many of us continually said the authorities were conducting the worst form of cover up. But Murdoch was determined to whitewash it all. Only a few years ago, the victims families were accused of being mawkish by Boris Johnson in their calls for remembrance and justice, while he gladly respectfully remembered those fallen in wars a hundred years previous. Ask yourself why the disparity in respect and care, and you'll have your answer.
If any good comes from this, it will be the shattering of the myth that authorities and establishment bodies do not lie and favour some people over other people. What is the point of having a public service if it doesn't serve the citizens, but only itself. Answers on a postcard to President Assad.
pepsipete
Posts : 14772 Join date : 2011-05-11 Age : 86 Location : Ivybridge
I to believed the Liverpool fans bought it upon themselves, Realise now there was a cover up. But just because a gate is opened you dont have to stampede in and crush those at the front. Remember going to the Argyle cup match at Highbury when people were still trying to get in at half time, good naturedly singing let us in, let us in, let us in.
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