Mankover Planning application submitted

VillageGreen wrote:

On Spotlight last night the reporter certainly laid it out with his question on why some of the money for the stand was not going to Adams for the January transfer window. Brent replied that Adams will be given some cash for it. That other bag of spare change it is then ?. Along with a comment that Argyle have improved recently and relegation is a no-no. We shall see !!.

That 5 mil would do wonders for team strengthening that's for sure. Surely if Hallet is as big a fan as he makes out then he'd rather invest in the team than a part in a property land grab profit making deal.

They're relying one hell of a lot on the "recent improvement" ruse. Trouble is Brent really believes it, and of course his "advisors" are just telling him what he wants to hear.
Classic "just in time" business practice from Brent that always ends up as "just OUT of time". Minimum investment in product is where it's at with Brent. He's only interested in balance sheet uplift. And to illustrate that:-
Brent's paraphrased comments on the bank pulling his loan that bought all those hotels on the cheap......"They may have pulled the money from my hotel chain acquired on the cheap, but after everything was balanced up, I ended up with 4 hotels left over ". Says it all.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

I think the five million is how much money they have got, how much they will need is another question. Remedial works are more expensive than new builds, a lot people think that with a barn conversion (twill be my new pet name for the mankover) it's cheaper than a new build because you already have a house shaped structure on site. It's actually way more expensive, walls have to be underpinned, walls have to have extra skins of block put in to insulate and hold the old structure up, new openings have to be made in old walls and so it goes on. Shorely Brent has costed this properly? .

Based on what you know about the scheme and your own knowledge and experience, do you reckon the £5 mill is accurate?

Not a clue to be honest. A small house or extension is more my field I've worked on big projects but only as a trade. Even a proffesional like a QC could only guess and it all depends on the spec. anyway. Nowadays money doesn't go far I've even done landscaping jobs with a budget north of £80k, you could build a big house with that money 30 years ago.
My remark was based on my gut feeling after watching Brent on Spotlight, he's bothered about the price. Something I do know is that builders taking on these sorts of builds at the moment are a lot of the time only covering everybody's wages, profit is minimal and firms haven't got the leeway they used to have there simply isn't a discount to give a lot of the time. Many things influence how you quote on a job, is the job the right fit for your firm and your skill set? How full is the order book already? What's your gut feeling about the customer and is he likely to pay you? With all the big sites on the go ATM Cranbrook, Sherford ect there is a massive draw on the trades ATM Sherford has 180 plumbers on it full time for instance, so there aren't going to be hordes of unemployed brickies begging for work.
My gut feeling is it will over run, these things usually do.

Of course the costs will overrun, they always do. But it will all be kept under wraps by reducing the "specification" or there will be some back door way of appropriating further cost against the club by taking HHP uplift out of the equation. When you control several characters in the play, it's a doddle.

The one thing that might cause a club rift to break out into the public gaze would be him taking too much admin and professional costs out of the build budget, as per Oldway. Basically not leaving Hallett with enough new asset value for his loan to the club he half owns.

Yea Man wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

On Spotlight last night the reporter certainly laid it out with his question on why some of the money for the stand was not going to Adams for the January transfer window. Brent replied that Adams will be given some cash for it. That other bag of spare change it is then ?. Along with a comment that Argyle have improved recently and relegation is a no-no. We shall see !!.

That 5 mil would do wonders for team strengthening that's for sure. Surely if Hallet is as big a fan as he makes out then he'd rather invest in the team than a part in a property land grab profit making deal.

To be honest if I had to vote on spending the £5m on the team or the refurb I would say do the refurb. Having said that if we can't fund a mid table team on our budgeted income and our relatively large gates then there is something seriously wrong at the club.

Yea Man wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

On Spotlight last night the reporter certainly laid it out with his question on why some of the money for the stand was not going to Adams for the January transfer window. Brent replied that Adams will be given some cash for it. That other bag of spare change it is then ?. Along with a comment that Argyle have improved recently and relegation is a no-no. We shall see !!.

That 5 mil would do wonders for team strengthening that's for sure. Surely if Hallet is as big a fan as he makes out then he'd rather invest in the team than a part in a property land grab profit making deal.

Where was Hallett during the dark days of administrations, that is what I would like to kmow.

If he is the super fan that he is assumed to be, you would have thought he would have been in like a bullet train to save the club he loves, not wait for years and then move in and become Brent's financial laccy because the reluctant one won't spend his own cash.

I can still see a day when Hallett will take full control of the club and Brent either goes or slips back into the background and concentrates on the projects outside of the footballing side.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

On Spotlight last night the reporter certainly laid it out with his question on why some of the money for the stand was not going to Adams for the January transfer window. Brent replied that Adams will be given some cash for it. That other bag of spare change it is then ?. Along with a comment that Argyle have improved recently and relegation is a no-no. We shall see !!.

That 5 mil would do wonders for team strengthening that's for sure. Surely if Hallet is as big a fan as he makes out then he'd rather invest in the team than a part in a property land grab profit making deal.

To be honest if I had to vote on spending the £5m on the team or the refurb I would say do the refurb. Having said that if we can't fund a mid table team on our budgeted income and our relatively large gates then there is something seriously wrong at the club.

Brent stated on Spotlight that relegation will not happen, he was adamant about that. If that is the case, how much will he and the Board give Adams for the transfer window ?

Adams will need to spend whatever he is given wisely to make sure Argyle are safe, not an easy task. Should Argyle fail and return to League Two, Adams will be the fall guy among the Brent brigade and wider afield. It is safe to suggest that Brent himself will not be seen as the fall guy in the eyes of his brigade. With loud calls for Adams to go and a new manager put in place asap.

At best, we could know what the outfome is by late March to late April '18. At worst, it could go right to the wire, with only a sprinkling of games to go to see safety occur.

Whatever happens, there will be fun and games to come between late March and May '18. And it is still very unsure as to what scenario will eventully pan out.

I think those of you that think Hallet is the heir apparent are greatly mistaken. It's a place to put your ill gotten and a place to pass on dosh safely. None of these people are "football fans", and I have to say, nor am I these days when the local pro club is taken over by the wrong sort in a Toad Hall sort of way.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

I think the five million is how much money they have got, how much they will need is another question. Remedial works are more expensive than new builds, a lot people think that with a barn conversion (twill be my new pet name for the mankover) it's cheaper than a new build because you already have a house shaped structure on site. It's actually way more expensive, walls have to be underpinned, walls have to have extra skins of block put in to insulate and hold the old structure up, new openings have to be made in old walls and so it goes on. Shorely Brent has costed this properly? .

Based on what you know about the scheme and your own knowledge and experience, do you reckon the £5 mill is accurate?

Not a clue to be honest. A small house or extension is more my field I've worked on big projects but only as a trade. Even a proffesional like a QC could only guess and it all depends on the spec. anyway. Nowadays money doesn't go far I've even done landscaping jobs with a budget north of £80k, you could build a big house with that money 30 years ago.
My remark was based on my gut feeling after watching Brent on Spotlight, he's bothered about the price. Something I do know is that builders taking on these sorts of builds at the moment are a lot of the time only covering everybody's wages, profit is minimal and firms haven't got the leeway they used to have there simply isn't a discount to give a lot of the time. Many things influence how you quote on a job, is the job the right fit for your firm and your skill set? How full is the order book already? What's your gut feeling about the customer and is he likely to pay you? With all the big sites on the go ATM Cranbrook, Sherford ect there is a massive draw on the trades ATM Sherford has 180 plumbers on it full time for instance, so there aren't going to be hordes of unemployed brickies begging for work.
My gut feeling is it will over run, these things usually do.

There's a nail with a sore head.

In stupidly rough figures, fees on a £5m project should be about 15%. Maybe less if Argo think they can do project management and cost control themselves.

The planning letter said that the grandstand and ancillary buildings are about 1,850m2

So taking out fees and a 10% contingency fund, that's about £2,150/m2. Never done a stadium, but gut feeling is that that looks a bit light, but not wildly wide of the mark.

MikeWN wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

I think the five million is how much money they have got, how much they will need is another question. Remedial works are more expensive than new builds, a lot people think that with a barn conversion (twill be my new pet name for the mankover) it's cheaper than a new build because you already have a house shaped structure on site. It's actually way more expensive, walls have to be underpinned, walls have to have extra skins of block put in to insulate and hold the old structure up, new openings have to be made in old walls and so it goes on. Shorely Brent has costed this properly? .

Based on what you know about the scheme and your own knowledge and experience, do you reckon the £5 mill is accurate?

Not a clue to be honest. A small house or extension is more my field I've worked on big projects but only as a trade. Even a proffesional like a QC could only guess and it all depends on the spec. anyway. Nowadays money doesn't go far I've even done landscaping jobs with a budget north of £80k, you could build a big house with that money 30 years ago.
My remark was based on my gut feeling after watching Brent on Spotlight, he's bothered about the price. Something I do know is that builders taking on these sorts of builds at the moment are a lot of the time only covering everybody's wages, profit is minimal and firms haven't got the leeway they used to have there simply isn't a discount to give a lot of the time. Many things influence how you quote on a job, is the job the right fit for your firm and your skill set? How full is the order book already? What's your gut feeling about the customer and is he likely to pay you? With all the big sites on the go ATM Cranbrook, Sherford ect there is a massive draw on the trades ATM Sherford has 180 plumbers on it full time for instance, so there aren't going to be hordes of unemployed brickies begging for work.
My gut feeling is it will over run, these things usually do.

There's a nail with a sore head.

In stupidly rough figures, fees on a £5m project should be about 15%. Maybe less if Argo think they can do project management and cost control themselves.

The planning letter said that the grandstand and ancillary buildings are about 1,850m2

So taking out fees and a 10% contingency fund, that's about £2,150/m2. Never done a stadium, but gut feeling is that that looks a bit light, but not wildly wide of the mark.

God bless Grand Designs eh? Why laymen think they can do the job of an architect and a QC is beyond me. We had a great one once we called him Erm. It's about all he'd say.

I bet the first reduction in specification will be when they decide we don’t need seats on the old terrace. No one sits there these days anyway

I'm sure Akkeron will be pleased to charge the club the appropriate rate for professional fees. As we've seen from the ticketing solution, the squire is quick to become the middle man.
And yes, the eaterie may well be built first as that's the essential bit, along with the new shop and ticket office I would guess. The car park needs clearing. Seats on terrace the last consideration.

Hugh Watt wrote:

I bet the first reduction in specification will be when they decide we don’t need seats on the old terrace. No one sits there these days anyway

Many a true word said in jest. They would say its not needed yet and hailed as foresight and planning for the future.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

I bet the first reduction in specification will be when they decide we don’t need seats on the old terrace. No one sits there these days anyway

Many a true word said in jest. They would say its not needed yet and hailed as foresight and planning for the future.

So long as there's enough to renovate and furnish the DB and boardroom to king prawn standards, shorely the rest can wait.

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can someone tell me what the blue and purple outlines mean please?

Rixen63 another one nailing it on the farm

Lol, the predictable responses of anything that does not fit with total JB tinted glasses making any conversation impossible on Pasoti is the reason this site is fast becoming irrelevant to most of the younger fan base, and many older ones too.
So sad as Pasoti has been a significant part of my daily viewing since Pre Sturrock mk1

Noticeably no response from the Hog. Realised for once that any retort will lead to his arse handed to him once again

[quote="harvetheslayer"]Rixen63 another one nailing it on the farm

Lol, the predictable responses of anything that does not fit with total JB tinted glasses making any conversation impossible on Pasoti is the reason this site is fast becoming irrelevant to most of the younger fan base, and many older ones too.
So sad as Pasoti has been a significant part of my daily viewing since Pre Sturrock mk1

Noticeably no response from the Hog. Realised for once that any retort will lead to his arse handed to him once again.

Classic Porko. If you don't like it - feckoff.


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P.O.I wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

Rixen63 another one nailing it on the farm

Lol, the predictable responses of anything that does not fit with total JB tinted glasses making any conversation impossible on Pasoti is the reason this site is fast becoming irrelevant to most of the younger fan base, and many older ones too.
So sad as Pasoti has been a significant part of my daily viewing since Pre Sturrock mk1

Noticeably no response from the Hog. Realised for once that any retort will lead to his arse handed to him once again.

Classic Porko. If you don't like it - feckoff.  


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So it continues.....every time the oaf jumps back in with his buffoonery he sets himself up for another mauling.
Rixen made a completely valid point politely yet is told to feck off

The fat twat never ever learns does he

So much for leaving the attacks off their magnificent forum.

Always the victim, you know what you are!

BBC1 wrote:

So much for leaving the attacks off their magnificent forum.

Always the victim, you know what you are!

Newell has got mental issues as one of his best mates told me before

Earwegoagain wrote:

MikeWN wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

I think the five million is how much money they have got, how much they will need is another question. Remedial works are more expensive than new builds, a lot people think that with a barn conversion (twill be my new pet name for the mankover) it's cheaper than a new build because you already have a house shaped structure on site. It's actually way more expensive, walls have to be underpinned, walls have to have extra skins of block put in to insulate and hold the old structure up, new openings have to be made in old walls and so it goes on. Shorely Brent has costed this properly? .

Based on what you know about the scheme and your own knowledge and experience, do you reckon the £5 mill is accurate?

Not a clue to be honest. A small house or extension is more my field I've worked on big projects but only as a trade. Even a proffesional like a QC could only guess and it all depends on the spec. anyway. Nowadays money doesn't go far I've even done landscaping jobs with a budget north of £80k, you could build a big house with that money 30 years ago.
My remark was based on my gut feeling after watching Brent on Spotlight, he's bothered about the price. Something I do know is that builders taking on these sorts of builds at the moment are a lot of the time only covering everybody's wages, profit is minimal and firms haven't got the leeway they used to have there simply isn't a discount to give a lot of the time. Many things influence how you quote on a job, is the job the right fit for your firm and your skill set? How full is the order book already? What's your gut feeling about the customer and is he likely to pay you? With all the big sites on the go ATM Cranbrook, Sherford ect there is a massive draw on the trades ATM Sherford has 180 plumbers on it full time for instance, so there aren't going to be hordes of unemployed brickies begging for work.
My gut feeling is it will over run, these things usually do.

There's a nail with a sore head.

In stupidly rough figures, fees on a £5m project should be about 15%. Maybe less if Argo think they can do project management and cost control themselves.

The planning letter said that the grandstand and ancillary buildings are about 1,850m2

So taking out fees and a 10% contingency fund, that's about £2,150/m2. Never done a stadium, but gut feeling is that that looks a bit light, but not wildly wide of the mark.

God bless Grand Designs eh? Why laymen think they can do the job of an architect and a QC is beyond me. We had a great one once we called him Erm. It's about all he'd say.

In fairness I've seen some people handle the project management side well, but usually on smaller projects, and they usually come from an admin or finance background. I would hope that the Home Park lot would know enough to know that they don't know enough, if you know what I mean?

harvetheslayer wrote:

P.O.I wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

Rixen63 another one nailing it on the farm

Lol, the predictable responses of anything that does not fit with total JB tinted glasses making any conversation impossible on Pasoti is the reason this site is fast becoming irrelevant to most of the younger fan base, and many older ones too.
So sad as Pasoti has been a significant part of my daily viewing since Pre Sturrock mk1

Noticeably no response from the Hog. Realised for once that any retort will lead to his arse handed to him once again.

Classic Porko. If you don't like it - feckoff.  


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Absolute feckin class - comedy gold from the leader of the Janner Nation keep it up Porky.

See Rixen has now been deactivated - that bit of opposition didn't last long. Made me smile on that thread, the odious little twerp Ollie calls the granting of planning permission 'a major victory for the club and board'.

Perspective needed (he'll probably need to look that up).

As for Newell on that thread, he gets more and more repulsive with every post he makes. What a nasty, small minded, petty excuse for a human being he is.

I mean, how much cleansing of dissenters can there be left to do? Shirley it comes to a point where there's only Newell, Jean Luc De-Larf and the inevitable multis left on JBsoti. Will they end up banning themselves?

A most hilarious situation and much hilarity to be had.