York City v Plymouth Argyle Match Day Thread

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Yes, but who knows if any trigger gives a big increase in pay. I doubt it. Carey in particular, and Jervis, must be worth a whole lot more now on the wages front than they were in July as a couple of unknown quantities. Players aren't daft, and nor are their agents. The fact that neither has been stopped again today, despite teams now being a little wiser to them, adds to the assessment.

Dont get too carried away york were absolutely awful.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

Yet again well done to Del Bhey and the bheys.

Yep, very good response after being knocked out of two cups, which doesn't seem quite so important now. League form maintained which is after all, the most important thing.

Pressure building on Brent I reckon. If he lets players go or doesn't let the manager strengthen, fans are not going to be happy - except the silent majority of course, who will obviously support him come what may - albeit silently.

York were terrible from start to finish we coasted to an easy victory.

Martin Hodge, Hodgie is now working for Burnley told sparksy Argyle had come in for a player on loan.

Angry wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Yes, but who knows if any trigger gives a big increase in pay. I doubt it. Carey in particular, and Jervis, must be worth a whole lot more now on the wages front than they were in July as a couple of unknown quantities. Players aren't daft, and nor are their agents. The fact that neither has been stopped again today, despite teams now being a little wiser to them, adds to the assessment.

the deal just extends a contract by a year that's all. i guess its also a cheap way of brent saying if del bhey doesnt take us up the club can get rid of high earners quickly without fuss or bother. Considering the entire squad is out of contract in the summer its going to a busy period of talks with the key players hence why they need to start now rather than may.

Possibly to spin it any way you like, I suppose. For me, the key is that those players are not able to talk to other clubs in the transfer window. If the trigger exists, we are protected from that and the fear of them walking at the end of the season goes away.

Having said that, Argyle would be foolish to then sit on their arses and let things drift until this time next year. New contract talks should take place in the summer, particularly if we've gone up.

of course they can talk to other clubs in january as can everyone else in the squad. that trigger doesnt mean they wont go even if its activated. after all the deal will only be renewed for a 1 year only and that only gets triggered at the end of the season and only if they are still here.

Are you missing the point on purpose? The 30 game trigger - if it exists - would mean they cannot leave for nothing in the summer, which is the main fear here. If it doesn't exist and they only have regular one year deals, they could freely set up an arrangement for a new club after their contracts expire in June.

Tgwu wrote:

York City news

PLYMOUTH Argyle have 'weaknesses that can be exploited' according to new York City boss Jackie McNamara.

McNamara is set to renew a rivalry with Pilgrims' boss Derek Adams and assistant Craig Brewster when their two teams meet at Bootham Crescent today.

But despite coming up against the League Two leaders, and with a group of players still relatively new to him, the former Dundee United manager clearly feels confident about his team's chances.

He told the York Press: "I know their manager and his assistant Craig Brewster very well.
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"We've come up against each other a few times and they have started the season excellently.

"They don't concede many goals and are well-organised. He's brought in one or two players from up there who have done well like Graham Carey but they do have weaknesses that we can hopefully exploit."

Today's clash is the first home game since McNamara took charge of the Minstermen, and the Scot has said he wants visiting teams to 'dread' coming to Bootham Crescent.

York City's players, equally, will be told to 'give everything' meaning today's clash will not be an easy one for Argyle.

"It's important to start winning games of football and there would be no better place to start," continued McNamara.

"The away support has been great in both cup games and, at home, I don't want to be giving teams a nice friendly welcome where clubs feel they can take three points.

"I want the ground to be somewhere people dread coming to, but the home fans will only react to what they are seeing on the pitch.

"The players need to be positive and give everything but, if they are apprehensive and don't take responsibility, then the crowd will turn on them and that's understandable because I would be frustrated watching that."

York looked like they were weak in one area in particular.

The big grass area in the middle of Bootham Crescent.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Yes, but who knows if any trigger gives a big increase in pay. I doubt it. Carey in particular, and Jervis, must be worth a whole lot more now on the wages front than they were in July as a couple of unknown quantities. Players aren't daft, and nor are their agents. The fact that neither has been stopped again today, despite teams now being a little wiser to them, adds to the assessment.

the deal just extends a contract by a year that's all. i guess its also a cheap way of brent saying if del bhey doesnt take us up the club can get rid of high earners quickly without fuss or bother. Considering the entire squad is out of contract in the summer its going to a busy period of talks with the key players hence why they need to start now rather than may.

Possibly to spin it any way you like, I suppose. For me, the key is that those players are not able to talk to other clubs in the transfer window. If the trigger exists, we are protected from that and the fear of them walking at the end of the season goes away.

Having said that, Argyle would be foolish to then sit on their arses and let things drift until this time next year. New contract talks should take place in the summer, particularly if we've gone up.

I've hammered the point for fecking months, but forchistsakes get them signed up.

Carey, Jervis, Reuben, McCormick, all three centre halves.

If we go up, if we stay in League Two or even if we go down we will want them.

Stalling on their contracts males absolutely no sense at all.

I hope Bob Foale asked Starnes WTF they are playing at, because it is such a risk letting the shark's circle, letting the agents wheel deal and whisper.

Be confident and be committed. All on 18 month deals or more in January.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Angry wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Yes, but who knows if any trigger gives a big increase in pay. I doubt it. Carey in particular, and Jervis, must be worth a whole lot more now on the wages front than they were in July as a couple of unknown quantities. Players aren't daft, and nor are their agents. The fact that neither has been stopped again today, despite teams now being a little wiser to them, adds to the assessment.

the deal just extends a contract by a year that's all. i guess its also a cheap way of brent saying if del bhey doesnt take us up the club can get rid of high earners quickly without fuss or bother. Considering the entire squad is out of contract in the summer its going to a busy period of talks with the key players hence why they need to start now rather than may.

Possibly to spin it any way you like, I suppose. For me, the key is that those players are not able to talk to other clubs in the transfer window. If the trigger exists, we are protected from that and the fear of them walking at the end of the season goes away.

Having said that, Argyle would be foolish to then sit on their arses and let things drift until this time next year. New contract talks should take place in the summer, particularly if we've gone up.

of course they can talk to other clubs in january as can everyone else in the squad. that trigger doesnt mean they wont go even if its activated. after all the deal will only be renewed for a 1 year only and that only gets triggered at the end of the season and only if they are still here.

Are you missing the point on purpose? The 30 game trigger - if it exists - would mean they cannot leave for nothing in the summer, which is the main fear here. If it doesn't exist and they only have regular one year deals, they could freely set up an arrangement for a new club after their contracts expire in June.

enough said.

ejh wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Yes, but who knows if any trigger gives a big increase in pay. I doubt it. Carey in particular, and Jervis, must be worth a whole lot more now on the wages front than they were in July as a couple of unknown quantities. Players aren't daft, and nor are their agents. The fact that neither has been stopped again today, despite teams now being a little wiser to them, adds to the assessment.

the deal just extends a contract by a year that's all. i guess its also a cheap way of brent saying if del bhey doesnt take us up the club can get rid of high earners quickly without fuss or bother. Considering the entire squad is out of contract in the summer its going to a busy period of talks with the key players hence why they need to start now rather than may.

Possibly to spin it any way you like, I suppose. For me, the key is that those players are not able to talk to other clubs in the transfer window. If the trigger exists, we are protected from that and the fear of them walking at the end of the season goes away.

Having said that, Argyle would be foolish to then sit on their arses and let things drift until this time next year. New contract talks should take place in the summer, particularly if we've gone up.

I've hammered the point for fecking months, but forchistsakes get them signed up.

Carey, Jervis, Reuben, McCormick, all three centre halves.

If we go up, if we stay in League Two or even if we go down we will want them.

Stalling on their contracts males absolutely no sense at all.

I hope Bob Foale asked Starnes WTF they are playing at, because it is such a risk letting the shark's circle, letting the agents wheel deal and whisper.

Be confident and be committed. All on 18 month deals or more in January.

Two sticking points though. Firstly, they need to be happy to commit to staying long term. Secondly, Brent has to be persuaded to pay them what it takes to compete with what they can potentially command elsewhere.

Probably a third sticking point too - come January, Argyle may well have to show some bollocks and turn down flat any offers of a couple hundred grand that might get put in for Carey or Reid.

If Del Boy had said ''I would like to start talking new contracts but JB has said no because he wants to re-fill his pockets and squirrel cash into his pension pot'' then we would have a good reason to shout, scream and shoot the porker. But he hasn't!
Del Boy keeps his cards close to his chest, does not do many interviews and is totally focussed on the task. He will do whatever he needs to in order to get our club promoted. Have faith in him, his team and the board to get it right - as they seem to be at present. This season is just so refreshing.

McNamara concerned by fear factor



York City manager Jackie McNamara was more satisfied with the second-half display but admits there is too much fear in evidence from his players.

"First-half, I thought there was far too much fear in their game" - Jackie McNamara
The Minstermen suffered a fifth straight defeat despite teenager Ben Godfrey scoring a very late consolation in reply to earlier efforts from Jake Jervis and Graham Carey for League Two leaders Plymouth Argyle.

McNamara introduced veteran midfielder Jonathan Greening at the break and the hosts certainly improved, even though they lost defender Dave Winfield on a stretcher with suspected concussion.

"I was more pleased with the second-half. First-half, I thought there was far too much fear in their game," McNamara told BBC Radio York. "We weren't taking responsibility, we weren't on the ball and passing it to others when it's on in the last third.

"So we changed things, brought on our 36-year-old [Greening] at half-time to take responsibility on the ball and help others and I thought he did that. He steadied us down a little bit," he continued. "I still think we can do a lot better in the last third. We huffed and puffed and obviously in injury time we got a goal through being positive. But you can see how tentative they are in their passing and a lot of fear in their game in the first-half.

"I still think there's a lot of things we can improve on [in defence], naturally I'm disappointed with the first two goals. At times in the first-half, I thought we were fortunate not to concede before that."

Tremendous result and won over £900 has had score correct. I had gone to bed thinking feck 2-0 as my lad had sent me a Line message saying 2-0 only to open Argyle website at 5.30am and find 2-1  !!
Right result ! Just cooking up Breakfast and a day of Jet Ski will ensue under the circumstances

I didn't write a post-match report after the Millwall game mainly due to tiredness, other deadlines coming up and the complete inability of being able to fit all of the breathtaking action that needed describing into a single post. However, let's just say it needed a response. It was a match that was, yes, much improved from the Carlisle game. We played some fantastic stuff going forward, scoring 3 goals and having enough chances to score more against a very decent League One side. But the defence was absolutely awful. We let them carve us open like butter at times- with several individual players having hopeless games. I thought McHugh and Nelson were well below par and Hartley had pretty much the worst performance I've ever seen from him in a green shirt. So let's just say, a response was clearly needed. We needed to show we could return to the professional, rounded performances of Luton and Morecambe where both the defence and attack were on song (with the midfield helping at both ends) for the vast majority if not all of the match.

And, by and large, we most certainly delivered. A good performance against a York side rejuvenated by their new managerial appointment and one that we really ought to have won by two goals to one. The vast majority of the match was complete one way traffic. This isn't just the first half either (in which we had our two goals plus two fantastic runs from Tanner ending in wastefulness, a fine save by Flinders from Jervis and a goalline scramble from a corner plus many other decent half-chance. In the second half, Jervis missed a one vs one, two spectacular angled efforts from Carey went close (one hitting the bar) plus, again, many other half-decent half-chances.

We once again played a very fluid brand of football. We knew York would try to force us back and get high balls into the penalty area- especially with the news that we would have James Bittner in goal instead of Luke McCormick. Adams correctly realised that defence is the best form of attack- which is in fact his overall philosophy but it's especially true in this instance. We didn't want their big striker Oliver getting into ariel battles in our penalty box in those conditions. We didn't allow York to play the game they wanted it to be played. We utilised high pressing and a high defensive line to ensure we completely dominated York.

I said in September and early October that whilst we were winning games, the scary thing was that we hadn't quite gelled to our best form. Our last three league matches really do show what our very best form might look like. Against Luton, Morecambe and York, we completely outshone all three teams and in each game the scoreline flattered the opposition far more than us. The free-flowing, attacking football in which we play a high-tempo, high-octane, stylish brand of play and completely outperform teams was something the biggest fans of Adams promised us would come- but that we only saw in glimpses earlier in the season. Now, we've seen it for the best part of three games. All that's needed maintenance of this and a slightly higher level of finishing. Then, I shudder to think how good this side could possibly be.

It wasn't all perfect. There were the odd 5 minute spells here and there where York had control. But you expect a side boosted by a new manager and chasing the game to have the odd spell. We successfully weathered the storms following half-time and the one following the long injury (I sincerely hope Winfield is ok btw, it looked nasty from the away end). The one at the end...well, I suppose we didn't deal with it so well as we conceded and we could be said to have sat a little too deep...but you can put a lot of that down to tiredness I think. We still made slightly hard work of it right at the end...but on the whole, an excellent performance and one we can take great encouragement from.

The big question following the game is that of Bittner and how well he performed. Very nice guy, great servant to the club, good goalkeeping coach and general member of staff...yes, I'm sure. Personally he still didn't inspire enough confidence in me that he's good enough to be back-up in this league. Yes, he did all the simple things he had to. He made all the routine saves that were required of him and to his credit, one fairly difficult save down on his left side. His kicking was also very good and well aimed. His command of area however really worried me. He just did not look safe on crosses. I think the reason he didn't appear to do a lot wrong is mostly because he wasn't tested much. Our excellent protection of him ensured that York didn't get the ball near him much. But when they did, his command looked poor to me. There were so many occasions where he replicated Jake Cole at his very worst and did that thing of not knowing whether to come out for a cross or not. Generally, either coming out fully or staying right on your line are better options than the middle man of not coming, letting a defender come for it then coming tentatively off the line...which he did a few times too often and it could have been punished. Also, he punched more crosses than you'd have liked him to. Luke would have caught them. Yes, it's better to have a keeper like Bittner who knows his limitations than one who does not. But ideally you'd have one without those limitations in the first place. If he plays for much longer on a regular basis, I fear he may be punished. But, he nonetheless performed better than I expected him to. Can't complain about the kicking or shot-stopping.

The defence were generally very good all game- they did the jobs they had to do. The thing that really warmed me is, the role of the defence in that game was not just defensive. Yes they did that stuff well, generally weathering York's storm whenever they had those little spells. They also engaged in excellent pressing to win the ball near the halfway line and even in York's half. But what they were also good at is the way they contributed to the attacking side of the game. Nelson and Hartley worked excellently in a high line and the former went on a few of his trademark runs high up the pitch. Sawyer continued to develop the attacking aspect of his game and his good distribution was as reliable as ever. Mellor however, was the performance that pleased me the most. It's fantastic so see how he's come on under Derek Adams (or at least, gone back to his previous form). When Adams arrived at the club and in pre-season he was an absolute wreck. To blame for a multitude of goals and unreliable going forward. Now, it's a totally different story. As the season went on, he began to 'gain inconsistency' if that's not too funny a way of putting it. He would put in fantastic halves of football followed by halves where he was his chaotic self again. Over the past month however, we're finally starting to see the Kelvin Mellor who first dazzled us with such impressive form in 2014. That of a complete, well-rounded full-back who can both defend reliably and be a serious threat to the opposition's left-back with his excellent forward movement and ball control. Just needs to learn to take a first time cross a bit more often for me.

The midfield was reliably good as always. McHugh had a much better game after two shockers in a row. He still wasn't perfect. There was still the odd moment where he didn't look his usual self in ground duels to win the ball often appearing a little lethargic or lacking focus but these incidences were much more isolated. For the first half-hour, he was absolutely stupid, charging around his general 30-yard radius like a bull on speed. Collecting the ball from other players firmly but fairly and pulling off some fantastic passes. He's so good in tight areas now too. Someone who played like this all game however was my man of the match: Oscar Threlkeld. After two months worth of injuries and bench-warming, what a fantastic find this lad has proved to be. He was one of our best players against Millwall and he was one of our best on Saturday. Pretty much the complete CM performance really- roamed from his position but could get back to it quickly. Tough in the tackle but much more controlled than he has been in previous cameos. Some very good passing on display too. All I can say is keep it up and now I'm a lot more confident that we don't need to rush Boateng back until he's fully ready and even then it'll be tough to displace Threlkeld on this form. When Simpson came in, he put in his usual understated and classy performance. He's probably the second best passer of the ball at the club (after Carey, obviously) and very underrated as a defensive player too (where his pre-positioning and pressing don't go unnoticed by me). Cox came on and was a body to see the game out as it needed to in the last 5 minutes. I do like Cox but he's had better cameos and it probably didn't help to be fair that the rest of the team dropped off a lot around the time he came on. It says something though that he's our 5th choice central midfielder when he'd probably walk into a lot of League Two sides. A very tidy player for my reckoning but his one weakness is his lack of mobility which renders him less suitable for the blood and thunder of a Derek Adams side.

The front four...well, I thought Tanner had a bit of an off day if I'm being honest. His off the ball work was fine and he tried to get involved with everything, never shirking out of the game for a second. But his end product was lacking for the majority of the game and it seemed as if he tried to do too much with the ball at his feet. He'll learn though, he's already shown he's capable of massively improving his game from what he was like in August and consistency at this level from players as young as him is hardly a commonplace attribute. Jake Jervis deserves a special mention- after weeks of putting in quietly poor performances, the goal against Millwall gave him the confidence boost that he really needed. Ever since then, we've had the old Jervis back. The one who can carry and pass the ball with supreme confidence, frighten defenders and make high tempo runs into space like a cat on a hot tin roof. He got one goal today and gave the York centre-halves twisted blood with his movement and interchanging with Carey that was as tactical as it was energetic.

Gregg Wydle put in what was probably the best performance I've ever seen from him in an Argyle shirt. A slightly underrated thing about him is just how good his movement off the ball is. Football is as much about what goes on off the ball as what goes on on it. His runs forward not only terrify defenders but they are in a perfect position for a teammates to launch a pass into just the right position for him to run into. His electric pace does the rest. What's also improving is his defensive work. I noticed that his usual slightly headless chicken persona when attempting to defend was very much improved on Saturday and he gave Sawyer much more genuinely useful support. Lastly on him, just a word about his assist for that Carey goal. Utterly majestic is all there is to it. If he had the confidence and belief in himself to take on defenders like that more often, he could be right up there with Carey in that category of 'players who are ridiculously too good for League Two'. As it is, he's still a decent player who can be great on his day and who offers us width, balance and the element of surprise. The other player who came on was Brunt and did a lot of usual classically Brunt work of chucking his body in the way of stuff and cleverly helping to close out a game with his endless harrying- even though his technical ability was poor.

Lastly though, there simply has to be a word for Graham Carey. Every time I watch him play, I am reminded of how ludicrously privileged I am to watch this guy play for my club. When was the last time we ever had a player so proportionately good for the league they play in? Indeed, has it ever happened? He is the type of deft, dancing ACM that you usually only see in Premier League or Championship sides. League Two playmakers are usually dependant on physicality, pace or energy. Carey is not. He has a sort of ballet-like quality that you see in the very best players in the PL such as Silva and Ozil. The tactical foresight of his movement is extremely effective, the aesthetic motion quality of it has every fan purring and makes him 10 times harder to stop. On the ball, he can execute passes that I've barely seen any other Argyle player do even in the higher leagues and he scores some sensational goals. He hit the bar shooting from a ludicrous angle, barely short of the goal line. Basically though, I don't mind him being a selfish player because it's not really selfishness. It's just him realising that our best chance of winning is to let him do his own thing. And that's no insult to the rest of our team, he just really is that good. He had a good first half on Saturday but his second half performance....it really was as noticeable as chucking a grown man into a team of 9 year olds. He MUST stay beyond January.

Bittner-5

Mellor-8
Nelson-9
Hartley-9
Sawyer-8

McHugh-7
Threlkeld-9

Tanner-5
Carey-9
Wylde-8

Jervis-8.

Simpson-8
Brunt-7
Cox-6

Sam, have you started your novel War and Peace MK2 yet? Not bad mate,although you do have a tendency when waxing lyrical about how good we were, to make it sound like you were watching Barcelona in green!

Well I've only started doing them again for the Morecambe and York games...both of which were up there in the top 3 or 4 performances of what in itself has been a very good season!

Carlisle in between was...not so complimentary!

GreenSam wrote:

Well I've only started doing them again for the Morecambe and York games...both of which were up there in the top 3 or 4 performances of what in itself has been a very good season!

Carlisle in between was...not so complimentary!

As I cant get to games anymore I very much appreciate your write ups. Much better than the erald.