How Did Gareth Southgate get the England under 21 job?

He was shite at Middlesborough and they get relegated, yet Southgate gets the under21 gig where he continues on his losing path! Who gave him the job ffs?

how did pearce get it? or david platt even? answers are the exact same as southgate.. feck knows

It's the same story as the senior side. They looked good in qualifying and were found out by the best teams at the finals. 'Twas ever thus.

They were outclassed today. I liked the look of some of those Italian kids - I can easily see Simeone Verdi and Davide Zappacosta playing in the Premier League.

The England lads were outclassed all over the pitch only Harry Kane was good enough. Southgate wont get the sack though, if you fail with England like Roy Hodgson at the last world cup you just get another contract!

What this doing in the Argyle thread, MODs this is getting the norm.

Tgwu wrote:

What this doing in the Argyle thread, MODs this is getting the norm.

A diabolical liberty, ffs sort it out suffered!

I know TGWU but I was going to leave it for tonight and then move it to zoo.

Maybe our players aren't as good as they are made out to be? Just a thought.

ejh wrote:

Maybe our players aren't as good as they are made out to be? Just a thought.

i think that is it in a nutshell.

I think also the fa should hire a proven coach with exp working with young players as u21 manager like they do for all the other age groups and not just give it to ex england players on their names alone. southgate had no previous exp working and coaching young players nor did platt or pearce. only one in recent years who did was peter taylor. and thats saying something.

How many of those players who played tonight, play regular competitive football?

Butland, Gibson, Garbutt, Chalobah, Forster-Caskey, Redmond, Lingard, Loftus Cheek. How many first team/Premier League appearances have these guys made between them?

Marco Benassi for example has made 51 top flight appearances. He scored twice for Italy tonight. Zappacosta who played well, has made well over 120 league appearances.

Harry Kane and Danny Ings are the only players in the starting lineup who plays regular competitive football. English youth players are largely used as reserves, it is not fair to be shocked when they play like reserves. Against countries who don't selloutto the global interests of the Premier League, and actually bother to develop their young national players.

Boothroyd as U20's. Hodgson the main side.

The FA are f*cked enough as it is, they could at least employ some decent bloody managers.

I couldn't give a toss where they come from either. Unless you're gonna give it to Eddie Howe or someone forward thinking then the shit isn't going to be covered up, it's gonna shine through. We know we're terrible, but an exciting manager might at least hide that for a while.

It's a rot from the top down.

ejh wrote:

How many of those players who played tonight, play regular competitive football?

Butland, Gibson, Garbutt, Chalobah, Forster-Caskey, Redmond, Lingard, Loftus Cheek. How many first team/Premier League appearances have these guys made between them?

Marco Benassi for example has made 51 top flight appearances. He scored twice for Italy tonight. Zappacosta who played well, has made well over 120 league appearances.

Harry Kane and Danny Ings are the only players in the starting lineup who plays regular competitive football. English youth players are largely used as reserves, it is not fair to be shocked when they play like reserves. Against countries who don't selloutto the global interests of the Premier League, and actually bother to develop their young national players.

Some brightspark in the media will call for prem clubs to be forced to play more u21's in their sides i gurantee it. Which wouldnt be a badthing if done correctly and overtime but it will also breath life back into the FA's stupid idea of a League 3.

It isn't the manager's fault.

In other countries, player like Sterling would still be in the England U21s. Instead, he was at a World Cup a season ago, and is now demanding £175,000 a week, refusing to sign a contract at one of the biggest clubs in the world as they don't 'match his ambition'.

I'm sorry but that totally sums it up. England have forever been about developing individuals, and not about developing generations. Walcott going to Euro 2006 as a 17 year old and not having a single minute on the pitch. He had only played 12 league games of football ever! Wilshere almost bypassing the England U21s and becoming a first team squad player as a teenager. The list goes on.

We are playing against countries like Italy and Germany now who don't have our absurd practices in place: cherry picking top players as 18 year olds for the full side who show any potential for stardom, picking players largely from the Championship because English lads are not given any top flight first team football any more. These countries have kids who have played seasons at Serie A level and know they will get their full call ups when they are 24 and really starting to shine - and not a minute before.

Spot on EJH.

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

I know TGWU but I was going to leave it for tonight and then move it to zoo.

First up so.....

ejh wrote:

It isn't the manager's fault.

In other countries, player like Sterling would still be in the England U21s. Instead, he was at a World Cup a season ago, and is now demanding £175,000 a week, refusing to sign a contract at one of the biggest clubs in the world as they don't 'match his ambition'.

I'm sorry but that totally sums it up. England have forever been about developing individuals, and not about developing generations. Walcott going to Euro 2006 as a 17 year old and not having a single minute on the pitch. He had only played 12 league games of football ever! Wilshere almost bypassing the England U21s and becoming a first team squad player as a teenager. The list goes on.

We are playing against countries like Italy and Germany now who don't have our absurd practices in place: cherry picking top players as 18 year olds for the full side who show any potential for stardom, picking players largely from the Championship because English lads are not given any top flight first team football any more. These countries have kids who have played seasons at Serie A level and know they will get their full call ups when they are 24 and really starting to shine - and not a minute before.

Championship players....not Premiership quality.....end of story.....Southgate did as well as he could with what he was given.....the so called better players have been elevated too early to the senior team and don't deliver the goods there because they have been rush to fill the gaps in our senior team....quite a few burnt out before full maturity.

I would even suggest that Michael Owen....who destroyed Argentina with that wonder goal as a teenager...never really reached full potential.....over played,injured too often and I would say also burnt out far too young.....Premiership too physical on young bodies....too much expected at too young an age.....Liverpool and England expected too much from Owen at too young an age.

I'd give the job to Sheridan.

Les Miserable wrote:

I'd give the job to Sheridan.

Tgwu wrote:

What this doing in the Argyle thread, MODs this is getting the norm.

Beyond a joke innit? We'll have Judi Spiers threads in the Zoo in a minute rather than Half Time where they should be...

The Shez has won more than Southgate as both a player and a manager...

Jack Wilshere, Oxlaide-Chaimbelain (sp) and Ross Barclay were all eligible but not selected. Why not?

Too much pressure on Harry Kane.

You can't blame Southgate for everything.

Winning at U21 level is the perfect preparation for the main tournaments.

Germany have a World Cup winner in their side!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3138866/England-fail-tournament-21s-crash-Euro-2015-Raheem-Sterling-Ross-Barkley-Jack-Wilshere-not-called-upon.html

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Jack Wilshere, Oxlaide-Chaimbelain (sp) and Ross Barclay were all eligible but not selected. Why not?

Too much pressure on Harry Kane.

You can't blame Southgate for everything.

Winning at U21 level is the perfect preparation for the main tournaments.

Germany have a World Cup winner in their side!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3138866/England-fail-tournament-21s-crash-Euro-2015-Raheem-Sterling-Ross-Barkley-Jack-Wilshere-not-called-upon.html

The German 2014 World Cup winning side had about 7 starting players from the side that won U21 Euro 2009.

The England side that got to that U21 final have all disappeared, have not progressed to the England national side, and are barely even used by the clubs they came through. Micah Richards, Adam Johnson and Nedum Onuoha? Not even deemed good for Man City's bench in the end.

Milner and Walcott are the exceptions from that final side, who have made a normal transition from U21 football to the full national side, playing a competitive standard of football at their clubs.

What a depressing contrast.

Les Miserable wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

What this doing in the Argyle thread, MODs this is getting the norm.

A diabolical liberty, ffs sort it out suffered!

Thats it no more football talk from me fffffffffs!!! i'm just going to moan about Argo who as we know dont play football!  BRENT OUT!!!

ejh wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Jack Wilshere, Oxlaide-Chaimbelain (sp) and Ross Barclay were all eligible but not selected. Why not?

Too much pressure on Harry Kane.

You can't blame Southgate for everything.

Winning at U21 level is the perfect preparation for the main tournaments.

Germany have a World Cup winner in their side!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3138866/England-fail-tournament-21s-crash-Euro-2015-Raheem-Sterling-Ross-Barkley-Jack-Wilshere-not-called-upon.html

The German 2014 World Cup winning side had about 7 starting players from the side that won U21 Euro 2009.

The England side that got to that U21 final have all disappeared, have not progressed to the England national side, and are barely even used by the clubs they came through. Micah Richards, Adam Johnson and Nedum Onuoha? Not even deemed good for Man City's bench in the end.

Milner and Walcott are the exceptions from that final side, who have made a normal transition from U21 football to the full national side, playing a competitive standard of football at their clubs.

What a depressing contrast.

So they had a decent side, big deal, and it was only five in the final, you also forgot Kieron Gibbs who is in the full England squad and Noble, Cattermole and Danny Rose who are regular Prem players.

So from that team, Milner, Walcott, Richards, Johnson, Gibbs and Rodwell went on to play for the full England side and Danny Rose represented GB in the Olympics, while Noble, Onuoha, Cattermole, Tomkins and Muamba before his heart attack all played regularly in the Prem.

Bottom line, you're just talking bollocks.

So for Sami Khedira, we have Lee Cattermole. For Mesut Ozil, we have Jack Rodwell. For Mario Gotze, we have Mark Noble. For Jerome Boateng we have Danny Rose. For Benedikt Howedes we have Keiran Gibbs.

And I'm 'talking bollocks' because our England players have reached that same level since they faced each other in the 2009 final?

Are you for fecking real or what?

Count the senior caps the players you identified have between them. It doesn't even scratch the surface of what those German U21s of 2009 have now amassed between them. The vast core of their team progressed together. Apart from Hart and Milner, and occasionally Gibbs, our former U21 finalists can't even get a friendly for England these days. The team has disintegrated, and the players fallen into stale and ordinary careers at largely mediocre clubs.

Cattermole, Noble, Rodwell, Rose etc. weren't even at World Cup 2014, and certainly were not (unlike their old German counterparts) winning it. It is embarrassing to even compare the fates of those teams and those individuals since 2009, Hart and Milner aside the big players just have not progressed at all. The team with potential as a unit was just dumped and that has been that.