Zebroski Jailed

My view is based on what I know as fact. In the time together on tour CZ received no more banter than Danny Gosling or Reuben Reid.

Holloway was gutted after the incident - he blamed himself but had only known the squad for a couple of weeks.

Reid and Gosling do not stutter. And Holloway has three deaf children. Maybe that explains his understanding. You clearly have come down on the side of the victim. Yours is a simple view.

Think rollo may have a point, then again leaving wottons ear hanging off is a terrible way to reek revengep

The guy is bad news - just look at his record since leaving us - Millwall ( loaned out to Oxford and Torquay), Wycombe Wanderers (loaned out to Torquay), Torquay, Bristol Rovers, Cheltenham Town, Eastleigh, Newport, eight clubs in eight years. Five charges of robbery, attempted robbery, two of assault and road rage. The guy is scum, stuttering or not, just scum. Now tell me whose 'side' you are on.

Rollo Tomasi seems to know more about this incident than a former director and some former players who were present?

May it just be that Zebroski is an extremely hotheaded and unhinged individual who seems to have reacted to 'dressing room banter' in a way that is very rarely ever seen in football? Given that Zebroski is now in prison, it leads me to believe Zebroski was the problem, and not Paul Wotton, who hasn't developed a habit for violence, alcoholism, prison cells and courtrooms. Or been assaulted by any other player out of the hundreds he has now worked with in his career.

Oh before gasser9 chimes in  yes i have read damons account and no thats not the full story. i not commentating on it futher other than to address you now before you chime in as i say

It really is amazing that people who were not there know more about it than someone who was. Any defence Zebrowski thought he had was raised in front of a judge at the private prosecution. The judge threw all the defence out and Zebrowski was paying damages to Wotton for years .

Thanks for sharing Damon, I hadn't heard an account of what happened beyond Wotton needing a shed load of stitches for whatever reason.

Will always sympathise with sufferers of addiction, and as an alcoholic Zebroski should have the correct support from his employers. It's relieving for me to know that Argyle and Holloway did try to help him and I read that Newport were aware of his illness and offered to pay for his rehabilitation. Obviously you cannot force rehabilitation upon anyone, it defeats the purpose of how rehabilitation can be achieved, so hopefully prison will be the wake up that Zebroski clearly requires. His illness doesn't excuse or justify his actions and he's rightfully facing the consequences, but support should be provided for him.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

It really is amazing that people who were not there know more about it than someone who was. Any defence Zebrowski thought he had was raised in front of a judge at the private prosecution. The judge threw all the defence out and Zebrowski was paying damages to Wotton for years .

Mitigating circumstances are only taken into account when the penalty or punishment is to be decided. It is not used to exonerate the crime. Zebroski was guilty, obviously I'd have thought.
This case was kept quiet with both sides having reasons to keep it that way.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

My view is based on what I know as fact. In the time together on tour CZ received no more banter than Danny Gosling or Reuben Reid.

Holloway was gutted after the incident - he blamed himself but had only known the squad for a couple of weeks.

Did those two have their disability mocked as well?

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

Paven wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

What's their point? Seems to be if a colleague is regarded by some to be a bit of an arse, it's quite understandable if someone decides to assault them to the extent where they require a team of doctors to put their head back together.

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

I know a few people that played with him too and the fact was he was a complete bully with the younger lads. Also no idea how Bessie became a pro.

ejh wrote:

Paven wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

What's their point? Seems to be if a colleague is regarded by some to be a bit of an arse, it's quite understandable if someone decides to assault them to the extent where they require a team of doctors to put their head back together.

Or put another way, if you're a nasty horrible bullying wanker to enough people over a period of time, you run the risk of something wholely unpleasant happening to you.

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Czarcasm's point is fairly obvious. I do not condone what CZ did but you should NEVER take the mickey out of another person's ailments, afflictions or disability. Whoever said what to CZ broke the law had it been in UK (and probably in ??? wherever they were) Yes the reaction was OTT but what if CZ had been subject to verbal abuse all day? I doubt any of our posters were with them all day.

''There are three offences that someone who uses "threatening, abusive or insulting" language in a public place may been deemed to have committed. All three offences fall under the Public Order Act 1986.''

One is ''It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words within the hearing of someone likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress by them. Section 4A makes it an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting language with the intention of causing someone else harassment, alarm or distress. The offence is only committed if it has that effect.''

And what about the 2 assault and one road rage charges - were they all taking the piss out of his stutter too?

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

And what about the 2 assault and one road rage charges - were they all taking the piss out of his stutter too?

I'm not discussing them but just the Argyle incident. I'm not saying CZ is an angel and his overall behaviour is appalling. But, my question is, had he suffered hours of abuse (or taking the piss to use your phrase) prior to the incident. Having a stutter can be an embarrassing problem particularly when a person receives abuse about it. Hurling abuse (taking the piss) at someone with any afflication is a cheap shot used by bullies or those losing a discussion or arguement.

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

Paven wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

What's their point? Seems to be if a colleague is regarded by some to be a bit of an arse, it's quite understandable if someone decides to assault them to the extent where they require a team of doctors to put their head back together.

Or put another way, if you're a nasty horrible bullying wanker to enough people over a period of time, you run the risk of something wholely unpleasant happening to you.

As far as I am concerned, Wotton being a nasty bully is conjecture more than a fact. I am unaware of any other player or member of staff in Wotton's 20 year career feeling it appropriate to put him in his place, either physically or via disciplinary measures.

Zebroski's problems off the pitch however have gone a lot further than Wotton allegedly mocking his stutter. Zebroski is now serving a 4 year prison sentence for offences nothing to do with what happened with Paul Wotton 10 years ago.

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

Paven wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

What's their point? Seems to be if a colleague is regarded by some to be a bit of an arse, it's quite understandable if someone decides to assault them to the extent where they require a team of doctors to put their head back together.

Or put another way, if you're a nasty horrible bullying wanker to enough people over a period of time, you run the risk of something wholely unpleasant happening to you.

As far as I am concerned, Wotton being a nasty bully is conjecture more than a fact. I am unaware of any other player or member of staff in Wotton's 20 year career feeling it appropriate to put him in his place, either physically or via disciplinary measures.

Zebroski's problems off the pitch however have gone a lot further than Wotton allegedly mocking his stutter. Zebroski is now serving a 4 year prison sentence for offences nothing to do with what happened with Paul Wotton 10 years ago.

hell be out in 18 months

tigertony wrote:

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

And what about the 2 assault and one road rage charges - were they all taking the piss out of his stutter too?

I'm not discussing them but just the Argyle incident. I'm not saying CZ is an angel and his overall behaviour is appalling. But, my question is, had he suffered hours of abuse (or taking the piss to use your phrase) prior to the incident. Having a stutter can be an embarrassing problem particularly when a person receives abuse about it. Hurling abuse (taking the piss) at someone with any afflication is a cheap shot used by bullies or those losing a discussion or arguement.

That Wotton went out of his way to bully the lad is a rumour more than a fact. It could have been an otherwise normal level of ritual initiation teasing of the younger players, that Zebroski for psychological reasons was unable to handle like the others. Given the nature of CZ's subsequent offences, it suggests he is not exactly of a normal disposition with reasonable tolerance and sound judgement.

Damon who was there has said it was Aljofree's joke that set the switch off in Zebroski. Not Wotton.

I find it very strange so many are inclined to feel Wotton 'deserved' what happened to him, based on rumours that he was bullying Zebroski and specifically his stutter. Who can independently verify that? Chadwick and Hayles are certainly clear in their view on what happened, and it is that Zebroski is the nasty piece of work - not Wotton.

Strange how the online posters understand it one way, but the people who were there and witnessed what happened see it the other?

Angry wrote:

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

Paven wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

What's their point? Seems to be if a colleague is regarded by some to be a bit of an arse, it's quite understandable if someone decides to assault them to the extent where they require a team of doctors to put their head back together.

Or put another way, if you're a nasty horrible bullying wanker to enough people over a period of time, you run the risk of something wholely unpleasant happening to you.

As far as I am concerned, Wotton being a nasty bully is conjecture more than a fact. I am unaware of any other player or member of staff in Wotton's 20 year career feeling it appropriate to put him in his place, either physically or via disciplinary measures.

Zebroski's problems off the pitch however have gone a lot further than Wotton allegedly mocking his stutter. Zebroski is now serving a 4 year prison sentence for offences nothing to do with what happened with Paul Wotton 10 years ago.

hell be out in 18 months

Only if he keeps his nose out of trouble, which I wouldn't stake a terrific amount on in all honesty.

ejh wrote:

Angry wrote:

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

ejh wrote:

Paven wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Whilst respecting the fact that Damon was there at the time of the incident, it's a bit like a teacher witnessing a major assault in a classroom and then the assumption comes that the teacher will have known all about circumstances leading up to the assault.

Teachers don't really know the ins and outs of everything that goes on with their pupils, do they?

A pretty good mate of mine came through local football, Plymouth Schoolboys, and signed schoolboy forms with Argyle. He never made the grade, but it was the same time that Wotton and Jon Beswetherick were coming through (Bessie wasn't even first choice left back for Plymouth Schoolboys btw!) He wasn't in the slightest bit surprised that Wotton had taken a 'doing'.

This was obviously a perfect storm, in that a 'do you know who I am' type person has chosen to wind up ( over a considerable amount of time) someone who had an embarrassing ailment, but it just so happened that this person had major issues aside from his speech impediment. The Fact Aljofree apparently was the straw that broke the Camels back isn't wholely relevant. If you have a scenario whereby CZ obviously hates Wotton with a passion, then it would only take something like Wotton laughing at Aljofrees comment, that would cause CZ to snap.

I still now have friends who have skirted in and out of Wottons social circle over the years, and it was the general consensus that a bit of Karma had come his way.

I guess what I'm saying is that CZ may well be an unhinged kid with big issues, but that Wotton was (is) also a billy big balls egotistical knob end who wound up the wrong person.  

Yeah but he's got green blood and loes the club, what's your point?

What's their point? Seems to be if a colleague is regarded by some to be a bit of an arse, it's quite understandable if someone decides to assault them to the extent where they require a team of doctors to put their head back together.

Or put another way, if you're a nasty horrible bullying wanker to enough people over a period of time, you run the risk of something wholely unpleasant happening to you.

As far as I am concerned, Wotton being a nasty bully is conjecture more than a fact. I am unaware of any other player or member of staff in Wotton's 20 year career feeling it appropriate to put him in his place, either physically or via disciplinary measures.

Zebroski's problems off the pitch however have gone a lot further than Wotton allegedly mocking his stutter. Zebroski is now serving a 4 year prison sentence for offences nothing to do with what happened with Paul Wotton 10 years ago.

hell be out in 18 months

Only if he keeps his nose out of trouble, which I wouldn't stake a terrific amount on in all honesty.

he'll be out before the 4 year term is up thats a given.

Can't be arsed to keep quoting, but for ejh - I don't think people are arguing that Zebroski is an angel who merely retaliated. If you read my 'perfect storm' comment, you should see that with CZ's obvious mental frailties, there was always the potential for the firework to go off.

And fwiw, my opinion on Wotton as a person isn't based on conjecture. It comes from people who I know and trust as good judges of character, who have known him for most of their lives.