EDL Chants in the away end

Manchester Green wrote:

None of my business really, and I don't know any of the parties in question...

But the only person being abusive on that thread was Phenom, with some ad-hominem attacks on said poster's spelling and intelligence, bringing his family into it, etc. He was told "do you want to say those things to my face", which Phenom now seems to be using a license to trash talk an Argyle fan all over the place saying he was "threatening" him. Boo hoo.

Didn't plan on ever posting on here, but lurk here once a week, saw this, and felt the need to stick up for this poster. I moved at half time to get away from the EDL, midway through the second half the big guy in question had moved just behind me towards the middle of the stand and was having a word with the stewards trying to sort out the incident - which no one else (me included) had the balls or inclination to do. And he gets slated. Maybe he's made some enemies in the past or something, but Phenom's posting on that thread was cyber-bullying of the worst order and an absolute disgrace.

EXCUSE ME but who are you??? i don't want to get involved but i sign up to a forum just so i can defend a guy i dont know hmmm ok.

So you forgetting the threats he made through out that thread? all i did was question why he kept getting thrown out of games and why he thinks he could have a moral high ground calling edl and footy thugs and all what he said which he is right of course they are and the next post he is shown pictured taking an active part in football troubles. why should that go un questioned the guy seems jekyll and hyde.
i'm sorry if his feelings where hurt but at the end of the day i have know fans to be issused with bans for 3 years for less than what he has done. Better use of his time would be to stop blaming everyone and everything look at himself and ask why stewards are keen to eject him.

Thats not cyber bullying in fact it was pretty tame considering stuff on there and here little tip when you try and say your cyber bullying its best not to name call folk idiots and heavily laced threats kind of ruins your argument.

He is more than welcome to come here and defend himself with an open mic so to speak and no censorship like we all are free to have if he wants no one is preventing him and nothing i put on there isnt here.


I think anyone who read his posts can make up there own mind care to take a look at the posts above again he is welcome to discuss it free and uncensorded if he wants too with them aswell.

the matter is closed as far as i am concerned as the thread is gone. mods should delete this too to prevent prolonging the issue.

ps

welcome to ATD were free speech is welcome

Phenom wrote:

Manchester Green wrote:

None of my business really, and I don't know any of the parties in question...

But the only person being abusive on that thread was Phenom, with some ad-hominem attacks on said poster's spelling and intelligence, bringing his family into it, etc. He was told "do you want to say those things to my face", which Phenom now seems to be using a license to trash talk an Argyle fan all over the place saying he was "threatening" him. Boo hoo.

Didn't plan on ever posting on here, but lurk here once a week, saw this, and felt the need to stick up for this poster. I moved at half time to get away from the EDL, midway through the second half the big guy in question had moved just behind me towards the middle of the stand and was having a word with the stewards trying to sort out the incident - which no one else (me included) had the balls or inclination to do. And he gets slated. Maybe he's made some enemies in the past or something, but Phenom's posting on that thread was cyber-bullying of the worst order and an absolute disgrace.

EXCUSE ME but who are you??? i don't want to get involved but i sign up to a forum just so i can defend a guy i dont know hmmm ok. So you forgetting the threats he made through out that thread? all i did was question why he kept getting thrown out of games and why he thinks he could have a moral high ground when he is pictured taking an active part in football troubles. thats not cyber bullying in fact it was pretty tame considering stuff on there and here. He is more than welcome to come here and defend himself if he wants no one is preventing him and nothing i put there isnt here.


I think anyone who read his posts can make up there own mind care to take a look.

Meh, took 5 mins effort to sign up and do that post and I've time to kill. And no, I don't know him.

That's how I saw it, the guy was on the end of some nasty comments from you but was subdued enough in his responses bar "say that to my face" and "I won't forget this", but you're painting yourself whiter-than-white here whilst totally trashing another human being to an audience that isn't in the loop due to the thread being removed, so I felt like sticking up for him.

CBA anymore with this, not my business and feel silly for getting involved, but that's how I saw it, and I'm off.

Manchester Green wrote:

...but you're painting yourself whiter-than-white here whilst totally trashing another human being to an audience that isn't in the loop due to the thread being removed, so I felt like sticking up for him.

Cough...

Rickler wrote:

Just a great pity that none of us can now read it and make up our own minds, don't you think?

Manchester Green wrote:

Phenom wrote:

Manchester Green wrote:

None of my business really, and I don't know any of the parties in question...

But the only person being abusive on that thread was Phenom, with some ad-hominem attacks on said poster's spelling and intelligence, bringing his family into it, etc. He was told "do you want to say those things to my face", which Phenom now seems to be using a license to trash talk an Argyle fan all over the place saying he was "threatening" him. Boo hoo.

Didn't plan on ever posting on here, but lurk here once a week, saw this, and felt the need to stick up for this poster. I moved at half time to get away from the EDL, midway through the second half the big guy in question had moved just behind me towards the middle of the stand and was having a word with the stewards trying to sort out the incident - which no one else (me included) had the balls or inclination to do. And he gets slated. Maybe he's made some enemies in the past or something, but Phenom's posting on that thread was cyber-bullying of the worst order and an absolute disgrace.

EXCUSE ME but who are you??? i don't want to get involved but i sign up to a forum just so i can defend a guy i dont know hmmm ok. So you forgetting the threats he made through out that thread? all i did was question why he kept getting thrown out of games and why he thinks he could have a moral high ground when he is pictured taking an active part in football troubles. thats not cyber bullying in fact it was pretty tame considering stuff on there and here. He is more than welcome to come here and defend himself if he wants no one is preventing him and nothing i put there isnt here.


I think anyone who read his posts can make up there own mind care to take a look.

Meh, took 5 mins effort to sign up and do that post and I've time to kill. And no, I don't know him.

That's how I saw it, the guy was on the end of some nasty comments from you but was subdued enough in his responses bar "say that to my face" and "I won't forget this", but you're painting yourself whiter-than-white here whilst totally trashing another human being to an audience that isn't in the loop due to the thread being removed, so I felt like sticking up for him.

CBA anymore with this, not my business and feel silly for getting involved, but that's how I saw it, and I'm off.

you SAW IT WRONG but are welcome to believe what you feel. i was sticking to facts and i wouldn't call it trashing another human being io wasnt calling him names like he was or threating folk with this isnt over and say it too my face hmmm ok. I paint myself as someone who has little to no time for people who are repeat offenders at my club. as i said before i have seen folk do alot less and earned banns and yet he is free to be ejected not once but twice in little over a month.

Again if you cared to read posts i didnt say anything no more or less what others have and once again if he wants to have his say he most welcome to i dont really have anything more to say on the subject to be honest.

Rickler wrote:

Just a great pity that none of us can now read it and make up our own minds, don't you think?

Obviously not...

Good to see Manchester green .on here. He is a good poster on the other site and invariably sees things the same way as me. FWIW Phenom I do think you went on a bit even though I share many of your sentiments on the removed thread. Still no reason for the thread to be removed, not on terraces anyway. Manchester green, it would be good to have you as a regular poster on here where freedom of speech is not clamped down on. The site needs more people prepared to discuss football matters as it evolves. I joined fairly recently and membership has almost doubled in that time due to the perceived sanitisation by the mods on the other site and certain people using it for their own ends.

When a thread is removed or edited on Pasoti you just KNOW there's something in it and that's when the questions start to buzz about in my head

I’ve been otherwise occupied during this topic, have I got this right?……………...



There was a vote on pasoti for the name of Chris Webb's singers group. The result of the vote was ignored and overturned by the Pasoti admin and Chris Webb.

The Pasiti admin and Chris Webb decide to use a name that by coincidence happens be the name of the most notorious racist group of fans in Europe.

Scarf’s are sold advertising the new name but the chanting as predicted, falls flat and the new singing groups has an embarrassing fop, however, EDL chants are heard.

Another match, another day and further EDL chanting is heard.

Chris Webb has been asked to investigate any possible link with racist organisations but responded aggressively and has not provided any comment as per the request to investigate. – “Well thats a new low for ATD to try and use a few vile individuals who happened to get a ticket in a certain block to link me with racism……..Pathetic.”

A photograph is provided showing a Pasoti user and friend of Ian Newell (Pasoti owner/admin) in a very unfavourable and condemning light that depicts aggression with others showing similar behaviour whilst being restrained by a female Police Officer.

The fan in question has a reputation for poor behaviour and is known to the authorities following evictions from football stadiums etc.

Ian Newell defends the behaviour of the guy in question and the discussion on Pasoti is removed from public viewing following questioning comments from other Pasoti users.


Have I got this right because to be frank, I find it hard to believe that the characters involved would wittingly be associated with such behaviour and racist/intolerant organisations? Yet, I also find this series of coincidences difficult to accept as coincidental?

That just about sums it all up. Except someone also mentioned the racist nature of the guys Twitter feeds, and he also had a go at the pasoti mods in contact the admin, but again that was removed.

Sounds right to me to GOB. A quick browse of the 2nd page of the Forza Verde sub forum on pbay will show you the vote and clearly shows that 1) Forza Verde 1886 is not even listed as an option and 2) the "winning" vote was something different anyway!

Is the plank who got photographed also part of the "ultras" group?... Maybe, just maybe despite Webb and Newell's denial, the ultras group as been taken over and hijacked by members of the EDL/TCE whoever??

I've battled with Peggy in the past over this kind of behavior believing that we've never had a problem at HP, obviously we have and, it seems we have one or two that want to add fuel to the flames of intolerance!

There are some serious questions coming out of this, they need to be answered and if Webb isn't prepared to provide answers it should be taken to higher levels and involve the police if necessary.

You raise a valid point YeahMan, it all seems to have occurred far to quick, far to convenient and far to coincidental for my liking. One week we have the creation of the Ultras despite the name not being wanted, the next we have racist chanting! What would anyone with an independent and logical mind conclude?

Just WTF is going on up at Home Park these days!

It may all just be a coincidence but it doesn't look good from the outside. New singing group formed, 2 people decide on the name and go against the majority, that group is named an ultras group and surprise surprise racist chanting is heard twice.

Now i'm not saying the organisers are encouraging racism however maybe in their tiny little minds they can see that maybe the ultras has been hijacked by racist scum. Poor judgement at the very least.

Yea Man wrote:

Poor judgement at the very least.

"Banter" to one side as this is far to serious for point scoring, I genuinely hope that as you say, that despite the remarkable coincidences it's a case of poor judgement, I really do!

I only know of Chris and Ian via exchanges on here, Pasoti and Exeweb and I cannot believe either are or would condone racism of any sort. I have not read either Exeweb or Pasoti since the other night when we had the 'Olive Branch' thread so cannot really comment on what has been going on of late. Either way, a strong condemnation is required from both gentlemen and quickly. Otherwise, they are going to end up with all the shit that is being flung about sticking to their Forza scarves.

So, Ian and Chris either post on here or Pasoti, but come out with outright condemnation of the racism and distance yourselves from it and quickly; or suffer being drawn into something unsavoury by association.

I don't think a person who doesn't see the obvious cause and effect of a public invite to Wrathall and the man himself turning up on the Home Par pitch is going to see any direct link between the setting up of the Ultras (including the name itself) and racism rearing its ugly head amongst a small bunch of neanderthal 'supporters'

Any attempt to link either Mr Newell & Chris Webb with racist chanting is crass to say the least.

Why should ether of them come out and say they condemn it? Isn't it obvious unless you want to stir the already muddied waters between here and pasoti? Even attempting to cast aspersions with the implication that Chris should have thought of this beforehand is cheap.

funny man wrote:

Any attempt to link either Mr Newell & Chris Webb with racist chanting is crass to say the least.

Why should ether of them come out and say they condemn it? Isn't it obvious unless you want to stir the already muddied waters between here and pasoti? Even attempting to cast aspersions with the implication that Chris should have thought of this beforehand is cheap.

It's obvious why they should condemn it! To distance themselves once and for all from it. To do nothing is going to be seen by some as complicit. Not all, granted but some will.

The deleted thread speaks volumes.

It's a bit like the courtroom question, "When did you stop beating your wife?" (And I know there is an easy get out of that....).

Why should the assumption be that they support the chants in some way unless they say they don't? That's silly. We have "innocent until proven guilty" surely.

And, from what I saw of the deleted thread - I didn't follow it until the end - it was beginning to provide an arena for threats to be made and even, from some posters, stoking the excitement of the subject. I may disagree with the modding decision - I always prefer people to be allowed to make idiots of themselves - but it is consistent with the style of previous modding decisions. I don't think it is likely to be a protection of racists.

You make valid points FM, but intolerance in any guise should always be condemned by everyone, but more so by those in public positions, it's what keeps order in society.

Personally speaking and knowing Newell just a little and Webb via his online comments, I find it difficult to believe that either will have any relationship with this, but I do believe that their judgement is questionable and baring in mind that what sparked my banning from Pasoti was the false and incorrect accusation of being a racist after I commented that I thought Scottish football was not of the same standard as English, I think I have a valid point.

GOB wrote:

You make valid points FM, but intolerance in any guise should always be condemned by everyone, but more so by those in public positions, it's what keeps order in society.

Personally speaking and knowing Newell just a little and Webb via his online comments, I find it difficult to believe that either will have any relationship with this, but I do believe that their judgement is questionable and baring in mind that what sparked my banning from Pasoti was the false and incorrect accusation of being a racist after I commented that I thought Scottish football was not of the same standard as English, I think I have a valid point.

Bloody racist! Scottish football is of a much higher standard

Chris Webb still reads this website you can bet your life on it as i'm sure does Newell. The fact that Chris Webb refuses to speak to this section of the fanbase is insulting and does himself no good.

All I am asking is he comes on here and tells us as president and as the founder of the Ultras what his intentions and plans are to ensure this racist element does not infest the club further.

Two matches in a row the EDL chants have been heard. I believe that a small group of these idiots have tagged onto the ultras group, whether that's due to the name or what I don't know but something needs to be said about it.

It's no good simply ignoring it and ignoring the people who are speaking out. Nobody is saying "Chris Webb condones racism" people are merely asking as supporters who don't wish the club to be dragged into anymore shit what is being done to stamp it out before it gets worse.

The fact Chris still actively posts on Pasoti and Twitter yet ignores this forum completely is poor form from the so called fans representative. Come on Chris or Ian, we all know you still read here so how about clarifying a few things eg. the points GOB raises.

The problem is Chris came on here saying the war of words had to stop, and while he was on here was faced with some awkward questions, which he doesn't get on Pasoti, because Pasoti users tend to accept anything that is said by Chris and Ian etc, without question. Anyone who dares to ask awkward questions is rounded on by dozens of sheep.

On that day, Chris was having questions thrown at him left right and centre, and amongst these questions was the pretty damn relevant one about the racist chanting, which he took umbrage to because the Ultras is his baby. There were even people on here who had the cheek to question whether Chris was going to say the same thing on Pasoti, but obviously Chris wasn't asking that day, he was telling us, because later that afternoon he was on Pasoti telling all and sundry that it was a waste of time, here is part of his response on Pasoti:

Take a look at the responses on that thread and you will realise that posting the link on here is completely pointless.

I have decided to leave the site to wallow in its own complete misery rather than give it any further oxygen. We have a real job of work on our hands re-building this Club and I have come to the conclusion that my energies are best placed in a positive manner.

I am all for debate but the aggressive, unmoderated style of posting on atd is a complete disgrace.

Spent some time setting up a blog today. I have also moved a lot of my updates / views to twitter and have the Presidents Progress space on the OS. I will be posting less and less on the internet forums.

Now Gregcambell Fan Club posted this:

Having only started posting recently on ATD i can say that i find that Chris Webb posts differently on there than he does on here. On occassion his choice of words are unfortuante or maybe ill considered. Ive already said this.

I do kind of sympathise with him in a way, he's the President having spent time with high profile trying to save the club.
The time is for him to step back, not get involved. Avoid petty disputes, if someone comes on slating him he has to (to a degree) have to ride the punches - after all Walton doesnt come on here saying we're all idiots when complaining he's had a bad game (for example)

The MOST disppointing thing for me was when he said Brent is aware of adverse comments made on ATD- to me that had an air of a 'grass', no reference made to Brent being aware of any advserse comment on here.
Chris should be above this.
I'm sure he will reflect he has made an error and learn from it - like we ALL learn from mistakes.

Now there were surprisingly several other such comments on the Pasoti about how Chris seems to post on Pasoti in one tone, and then is totally different when it comes to posting on here, but unfortunately, the whole thread was "filletted" by a Pasoti mod, to leave only the posts he found relevant, and many of the posts questioning why Chris doesn't post in the same vein on both sites had been "filletted" and are now gone.

I would also point out that it wasn't Chris who started the Truce thread on Pasoti, like he did on here, but Cerbera who posts on both sites and was genuinely attempting to help and start the ball rolling with regard to a Truce.

So a couple of points from all this. Chris has still not answered my point about if the reported racist chanting from Block 4 of the Devonport End at the Torquay game was going to be investigated, all the more relevant now that similar reports of racist chanting came from the Argyle end at Crewe on Saturday, but as Chris has decided to be posting less and less on Internet forums, I now don't expect him to be answering the point on here.

Just to clarify, Chris Webb has declared that he will be posting less and less on Internet Forums, and I believe he has been true to his word and has not posted on ATD since that day, and I have seen him post on at least 4 different threads on Pasoti since, and believe me I haven't looked too hard so it could well be more, so I believe what Chris meant was that he will be posting less, or not at all, on THIS Internet Forum.

I'd ask the same point on Pbay but I see little point as it would just be removed before he had chance to read it

And Chris, I'm going to be posting less and less on Internet Forums, has also posted on the Vice Presidents Club thread, so that makes it at least 5 threads I have seen him post on since the truce episode, and correct me if I'm wrong, but still not once on here.

I do find it odd that there appears to be no reference to this at all on Pasoti.

Funny Man, I agree but high profile figures such as Ian and Chris could be 'guilty by association'. That's how the general public work isn't it? Remember that poor bloke in Bristol when that girl was murdered last Christmas? He was vilified and harassed because 'he was guilty, obviously'.

The thing is, public or high profile characters need to state the bleedin' obvious sometimes. Because to do nothing allows rumours to fester and erupt.

To simply state that it is 'nothing at all to do with us' is sometimes not enough. Especially with an emotive subject such as racism.

We'll have to agree to disagree.