This has to end

dane_b wrote:

Quote :

and Ian Newell has ensured that this customer/supporter won't be contibuting anything financially to the club.

Now.... as president and and a friend of Ian Newell... do you not think that its a disgrace that its got to the above point Chris ?

And he's not the only one who is fed up of Newell and actually cannot be bothered with going to Argyle because of that man. I imagine there's a fair few more.

[quote="Czarcasm"]Thing is, I don't think Chris really does want to distance himself from Nooly.

And if you continue to swim with the sharks, you'll always stink of fish....

Plus of course, when you have people like Greenjock being treated with such disdain, then them venting their anger is only natural.[/quote

Precisely. A lot of very good and articulate posters have been lost to Pasoti for no reason really other than they had views at the opposite end of the spectrum to many of those running the site and their buddies. Many were banned without good reason, it was either the generalisation trolling, the worry of libel or some such crap, just an excuse to get rid of those who didn't agree. You are wise to distance yourself at least for the purpose of the message boards from Mr Newell, whether there is an ulterior motive time will tell. Personally I feel you should get far less involved in the silly biuckering which is maybe what you are coming around to yourself. I might be an old fashioned fart but I think it is unedifying to see the Club president involved in silly squabbles and to be seen to be publically tweeting ridiculous nonsense with young members of the club's staff. Are we really interested in what you had for breakfast today or the fact that a humble postman as you call yourself has 600 followers for goodness sake.

if there is too be peace its really quite simple. if you want peace you must first accept wrong doings and agree to some terms and shake hands and never speak of it again. here is just an idea of if they were in place could help improve relations.

Pasoti

Rescind bans on those who were banned for pettiness like greenjock for one allowing those that want to go on there the opportunity,
stop with the sly digs aimed towards ATD,
allow freedom of speech within the rules of the forum which includes debating issues without fear of banning,
drop all vendettas
the idea of forums is for debate for and against those against arer no lesser fans then ones who would shine the shite of james brent or pay £3500 for a flag when their are still staff struggling.
ijn apologises for his actions towards Argyle Talk and not target others/this forum unless he is provoked
ATD is added to the links and is no longer called a libellous site
and finally no more seeing ATD as a rival teams forum.

ATD
drop the issues past and present and vendettas against a few on pasoti
be a credible alternative to pasoti like it is now without becoming a pasoti gossip site
stop with the sly digs aimed towards pasoti
ijn will not be a target for some on here unless provoked.
if invited back on pasoti and you accept the invite you agree to their t and c's not use it to re start dormant fires.
and finally no more seeing pasoti as a rival teams forum


notice how they are pretty much similar Thats because its 50/50 no smoke without fire if both sides are guilty but if both agree in part to what i put down as a suggestion peace will reign if both admin teams stick to it. Now if only this would have work in Bosnia.

Just an idea

And a very good idea Phenom. Unfortunately I don't think it will be welcomed by those who pull the strings on Pasoti as it would see an influx of a dozen to twenty posters balancing up the current majority of sycophants. It would be wonderful if they did embrace your suggestion and also if Mr webb was to post similarly on Pasoti as he did on here suggesting why and how things had to end.

pasoti will never agree to that

The simple fact is there will never be an end whilst you have a very public and personal friendship between that utter idiot Ian Newell and Chris Webb. I agree it is unfair to ask Chris to comment on Ian's behaviour or Ian's comments.

But it is also insulting to us for Chris to claim he is posting as a supporter and not the President of PAFC. He is one and the same. Whatever you post Chris, you are posting as the President, whether you like it or not. David Cameron is the Prime Minister, he's even the PM when he posts on Facebook or Twitter (which I doubt he does, either of because he's the PM) and that is why he doesn't post, because he is always the PM.

Any question Chris finds uncomfortable, or is unwilling to answer he either gives an ambiguous answer, a 'clever' answer or ignores the question completely. Chris needs to understand that we are not sheep, we will question things we don't understand or agree with.

Again, it isn't about agreeing to disagree, and move on. Frank mentioned the other day that we should not underestimate the level of contempt this site is held in, by a number of Pasoti moderators.

I've always found it amusing, but how pathetically childish is it, that Pasoti refuses to even recognise this site with a link on it's main page? If you're out to build bridges Chris, it's the playground stuff like that, that needs to be addressed first.

I think you'll find though, your main problem is that some individuals actually thrive on this sort of confrontation. So whilst they have (openly at least) refrained from posting here, they have thousands and thousands of posts on rival websites where the level of (dis)respect they've acquired probably even usurps ATD levels.

The company you keep Chris, will always influence the way you are perceived.

swampy wrote:

And a very good idea Phenom. Unfortunately I don't think it will be welcomed by those who pull the strings on Pasoti as it would see an influx of a dozen to twenty posters balancing up the current majority of sycophants. It would be wonderful if they did embrace your suggestion and also if Mr webb was to post similarly on Pasoti as he did on here suggesting why and how things had to end.

i know and it has been proven in the past that if the place wanted peace it would happen just like that however its 50/50 and individuals on here are not going to stick to it if a few on pasoti are continuing to make sly digs. so yeah i agree with you i cant see pasoti agreeing to a peace.

Personally, I have no real issues with Pasoti. I can take it or leave it.

I much prefer it here where debate and opposing views are positively encouraged.

Cerbera wrote:

Personally, I have no real issues with Pasoti. I can take it or leave it.

I much prefer it here where debate and opposing views are positively encouraged.

My feelings too.

A similar thread on PASOTI would be interesting.

Cerbera wrote:

Personally, I have no real issues with Pasoti. I can take it or leave it.

I much prefer it here where debate and opposing views are positively encouraged.

i use both i prefer it here for those reasons alone. however the bitchiness has to stop i feel.

This place has developed immensely over recent months, an influx of intelligent posters diluting the old stalwarts. Indeed peace was definitely on the horizon, certainly from this side of the wall but that post from our "guest" R. Swipe has again stirred the shit.

It was painfully obvious from the outset it was a set up, I am sad that some leapt on the bandwagon and fuelled this fool's appetite for wind ups.

Sensible posting and measured responses are the way to go, as shown on here, most of the time. There will always be a rift between some elements on both sites.

Live and let live, if there is a will from both sides and the major players then a thaw will happen, but there will never be total harmony.

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Now, this wouldn't be because you don't have an adoring audience on this site, would it? It must be difficult for you - any post you make on Pasoti is received with adulation, even when you say nothing - yet here, you don't get an easy ride, and it's quite clear that you don't like criticism or any questioning at all.

Being perfectly honest, I don't trust you and I view posts like this with suspicion. You've used your unelected position in the Trust to shout louder than anyone else, raised your profile, appeared in the media (won't do the day job any harm), and get yourself a position within the club.

What do you want to achieve?

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Chris, I’ve not read any other post on this thread because I didn’t want to be influenced in any way, but I will remind you that just a couple of weeks ago you were supporting your mate Newell when he described the users of this site as “cowardly scum” among other things. I can’t help but wonder if you would have started this thread had this site not become so popular following Newell’s comments. I’ll also remind you of a word that you have just used, “respect”!

I STRONGLY disagree that wrong has been done on both sites (ADT & Pasoti) and I will not accept that other then to say that the only thing ATD users are guilty of is making frank opinions combined with verbal attacks to defend themselves. The moderators from ATD have not attacked Pasoti, they haven’t banned anyone, they have not posted severe personal abuse and they have not gained access to the administration on Pasoti amd closed it!…I could go on, it’s a very, very long list that you are well aware of but as Trust leader decided to take the option of siding with the abusers rather then the abused, that is of course until now when ATD has become more popular.

Personally speaking, I give everyone respect, it’s up to the person if he wishes to lose it or not!

However, the reason this site exist is to allow EVERYONE the freedom to express an opinion within the boundaries of the law, which include YOU Chris as well as Newell should he wish to or, anyone else. ATD IS THE MOST POPULAR PAFC FANS FORUM WHERE THIS IS THE CASE and we are proud to boast about it!

You may not like what some of us have to say or question, or question again and again, that’s life on here. You may not like the criticism or the frank opinions but again, that’s life. This is not Pasoti, you will not be wrapped in cotton wool and protected from issues that are raised within the realm of the law. Up until now you have struggled with the concept and freedoms of this site so I hope that this time around you have better luck.

Tringreen wrote:

funny man wrote:

I came on here because I was sick and tired of the sycophancy, the closed-shop and the closed minds on pasoti. I came on here with a lot of trepidation. I think some of the abuse on here is way over the top. Some of the accusations and implications made are plain stupid.

I was totally pissed off in the last couple of days when someone (maybe from inside ATD, maybe pasoti or even elsewhere....) posted purporting to be Mr Newell or one of his lackeys. I was bored that someone would do that - anyone who gets their kicks over such wind-ups is a sad person. Their other hobby is probably pulling the legs off spiders or saying rude words to old ladies. But I was pissed off that some on here claimed to know who it was but have been unwilling to share it. If that's not replicating the "I know something that you don't" behaviour that has been complained about on pasoti, I don't know what is.

But I can say that on here and not be ganged up on and not be banned. It is an open site. I think I have seen only two or three comments removed with an explanation from the person who did the removing - usually, by implication, for crude abuse pure and simple. That cannot be said for pasoti. That is why, increasingly, I come here to the exclusion of pasoti. I am growing to love this place and all the people on it - it's like one big family. ( )

When I started on here I thought that complaints about pasoti were indulgent and adolescent, or worse. I was wrong. Pasoti is the major site serving Argyle's internet fan-base. To ignore its behaviour - or at least the behaviour of those in control - would be ridiculous. They ought to be up for scrutiny as much as anyone else including ATD. ATD can take it - pasoti can't.

I am not saying all that in order to continue any war or vendetta. I am saying it to try to demonstrate again that I am probably an extreme moderate ( ) on here. I think both sides are wrong, as you say. And right. Neither am I asking you to justify your posting on pasoti - you've made it clear that you won't. I think your role as President may be compromised - for different reasons - if you engage in discussion on either site and, like it or not, you now cannot avoid posting in your official capacity. Any aggro you get goes with that job. Maybe you should start an El Presidente site in order to straddle the two ( ). Your choice seems to have been to accept the sycophancy on pasoti rather than wading through some of the shit on here and find that it is actually good, once it has been composted, for helping things grow. You don't have to be on the defensive on here (mostly). Fighting your corner openly without responding to the rancour would be OK.

An excellent summary. The penultimate paragraph [that means next to last for some of our friends] is pivotal.

Nothing will 'change' unless there is a level playing field. People who self promote and attempt to silence all opposition will always be scrutinised here and elsewhere.

Forget it Chris. ATD posters will continue to question the club and individuals as and when they feel inclined.

What both Funnyman and Tring have said!

First of all I welcome Chris making this first move.

I see this as a two way process. There has to be a similar public thread on Pasoti so that the situation can be discussed properly and all sides can see the strength of feeling. Its all very well saying that this has to end, but unless both sides really want that then there is no point. Do people really want peace or do they just want to silence us?

Frank Bullitt wrote:

First of all I welcome Chris making this first move.

I see this as a two way process. There has to be a similar public thread on Pasoti so that the situation can be discussed properly and all sides can see the strength of feeling. Its all very well saying that this has to end, but unless both sides really want that then there is no point. Do people really want peace or do they just want to silence us?

I have just linked to this thread on Pasoti. Let's see where it goes. It is only fair that it be discussed there as well as here.

Cerbera wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

First of all I welcome Chris making this first move.

I see this as a two way process. There has to be a similar public thread on Pasoti so that the situation can be discussed properly and all sides can see the strength of feeling. Its all very well saying that this has to end, but unless both sides really want that then there is no point. Do people really want peace or do they just want to silence us?

I have just linked to this thread on Pasoti. Let's see where it goes. It is only fair that it be discussed there as well as here.

Nice one mate. Lets hope we get some progress

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Cerbera wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

First of all I welcome Chris making this first move.

I see this as a two way process. There has to be a similar public thread on Pasoti so that the situation can be discussed properly and all sides can see the strength of feeling. Its all very well saying that this has to end, but unless both sides really want that then there is no point. Do people really want peace or do they just want to silence us?

I have just linked to this thread on Pasoti. Let's see where it goes. It is only fair that it be discussed there as well as here.

Nice one mate. Lets hope we get some progress

Oh well. Clearly not

No, Frank, it's simply been moved to Terraces. It's still there. It actually doesn't fit the criteria of the Main Board.

funny man wrote:

No, Frank, it's simply been moved to Terraces. It's still there. It actually doesn't fit the criteria of the Main Board.

I meant Chris' response mate.

Very disappointing.

Odd that. One post from Chris Webb and it's in the Terraces.

Anyone would think there's a conspiracy afoot. I mean, Chris comes on here asking for all this to stop and when the very same thread is reciprocated on Pasoti it's immediately panned and moved to Terraces.

Did Chris Webb think that ATD would just roll over and apologise for everything that has gone on before and submit to the 'great' Pasoti?

Still it's being allowed to continue for the moment, something good may yet come from it.

The main protagonist has no interest in giving one inch. Never has, never will. I would suggest their proy/shared forrays on here are viewed in a similar vein as their pointless chest beating during the sale process.
It's all very Stalinist, very luggy, very Willie Walsh.... my way or the highway.... I think I've had enough of that sort of thing.

A very nice post from Knecht over there - sums up my view entirely.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

A very nice post from Knecht over there - sums up my view entirely.

Entirely agree. Is Knecht on here?