This has to end

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Im not sure its as black and white as that chris

dane_b wrote:

Im not sure its as black and white as that chris

Well if it isn't Dane then everyone who is trying to bridge the gap just as well pack up and give in.

From my reading into the whole situtation there are issues outstanding that need to be addressed, you just cant call time on everything and sweep anything thats happened under the carpet and hope it goes away. I think moving forward is a good move but it wont work unless certain issues are resolved

dane_b wrote:

Im not sure its as black and white as that chris

Seems quite obvious and reasonable to me. Some people on this site seem to have a problem with IJN, and spout off at Chris about this. This is bizzare, and any anger regarding pasoti is misdirected if being spouted at Chris.

Challenge him on the farcical events of monday by all means (and it was a real ****ing shambles!), but why talk about pasoti to someone who isnt involved in running the site? Odd.

As an outside not involved in any of the bad feeling, it seems quite sad that fellow Argyle fans feel the need to have digs at each other. If you weant to have a pop at Chris have a pop for things he can actually do something about.

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Agreed.

How do we take it forward though.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Agreed.

How do we take it forward though.

Frank

'Personally' I think a simple approach is best.

Ian Newell doesn't post on here and seems to have taken a vow of silence on all things ATD.

If the posters with an issue with Ian on ATD adopted a similar approach then at least we would have some sort of code of conduct.

I really don't see what is to be gained for anyone by constantly going over the same ground anyway.

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Agreed. I've got a bit to say about this but I'm at work . Back this evening .

Lets have a voluntary ban on the words IJN and derivatives thereoff and PASOTI.

I'd far rather an open approach. Trying to start afresh will just leave things festering.

Some acknowledgement of the things that have been done to people, and even a few apologies, wouldn't go amiss.

Much more "Presidential", Chris. You probably perceive that I have reservations about your time in the Trust and some aspects of you present role but your have my good wishes for success in that position and I hope you will accept that any criticisms are not based on any kind of malice from me personally.

My vision for this site is for the kind of thoughtful, respectful adult threads that were commonplace on Pasoti in days gone by.

Chris, are you going to start the ball rolling for rescinding your statement that penzancepirate is a lying foul mouthed bully (or whatever it was) and apologising for it?

This would be a step in the right direction. Also, you seem to want to distance yourself from Ian Newell. This can only be a good thing.

If you answer questions honestly and straightforwardly and don't use evasive answers, it will be much better. Resorting to juvenile behaviour yourself as President of PAFC makes nobody but yourself look stupid. Whether you like it or not, you are an officer of the club 24/7/365. If you post something you feel personally, it will ALWAYS be construed as the President's opinion.

Peggy wrote:

I'd far rather an open approach. Trying to start afresh will just leave things festering.

Some acknowledgement of the things that have been done to people, and even a few apologies, wouldn't go amiss.

100% agree. After everything thats gone on, we cant just go along with what is being proposed and forget everything at the drop of an hat. I think its clear everyone here would welcome moving forward, but there has to be give and take from both sides of the fence.

Like a link in Pasoti's site directory on the main index for example , that would go along way to them acknowledging ADT as a credible Forum for Argyle supporters

Charlie Wood wrote:

Much more "Presidential", Chris. You probably perceive that I have reservations about your time in the Trust and some aspects of you present role but your have my good wishes for success in that position and I hope you will accept that any criticisms are not based on any kind of malice from me personally.

My vision for this site is for the kind of thoughtful, respectful adult threads that were commonplace on Pasoti in days gone by.

I did note your comments Charlie and to be quite frank my big obsession was saving Argyle. I made my reasons for stepping down from the Trust clear when I did so. I felt that I was the 'right person for the right time' and that time has passed.

Nothing dodgy, nobody being used, simply stepping aside because I felt that my skills were better served to previous circumstances.

Peggy wrote:

I'd far rather an open approach. Trying to start afresh will just leave things festering.

Some acknowledgement of the things that have been done to people, and even a few apologies, wouldn't go amiss.

Yes and both sides will claim they are in the right and this will go on and on.

I don't know about anyone else but I have had a gutful of it.

Chris you cant post what you want insulting people, back others who are insulting people and then when you have had enough call time on it!!!!! life doesnt work like that im afraid.

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Sound sentiments but there has been wrong on BOTH sides, So will you copy this you have said and paste it on Pasoti? If there is any thawing in relationships it has to come from both sides

Southborne wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Sound sentiments but there has been wrong on BOTH sides, So will you copy this you have said and paste it on Pasoti? If there is any thawing in relationships it has to come from both sides

What am calling for has already been accepted by Pasoti/Ian Newell- i.e agree to disagree and move on!

I came on here because I was sick and tired of the sycophancy, the closed-shop and the closed minds on pasoti. I came on here with a lot of trepidation. I think some of the abuse on here is way over the top. Some of the accusations and implications made are plain stupid.

I was totally pissed off in the last couple of days when someone (maybe from inside ATD, maybe pasoti or even elsewhere....) posted purporting to be Mr Newell or one of his lackeys. I was bored that someone would do that - anyone who gets their kicks over such wind-ups is a sad person. Their other hobby is probably pulling the legs off spiders or saying rude words to old ladies. But I was pissed off that some on here claimed to know who it was but have been unwilling to share it. If that's not replicating the "I know something that you don't" behaviour that has been complained about on pasoti, I don't know what is.

But I can say that on here and not be ganged up on and not be banned. It is an open site. I think I have seen only two or three comments removed with an explanation from the person who did the removing - usually, by implication, for crude abuse pure and simple. That cannot be said for pasoti. That is why, increasingly, I come here to the exclusion of pasoti. I am growing to love this place and all the people on it - it's like one big family. ( )

When I started on here I thought that complaints about pasoti were indulgent and adolescent, or worse. I was wrong. Pasoti is the major site serving Argyle's internet fan-base. To ignore its behaviour - or at least the behaviour of those in control - would be ridiculous. They ought to be up for scrutiny as much as anyone else including ATD. ATD can take it - pasoti can't.

I am not saying all that in order to continue any war or vendetta. I am saying it to try to demonstrate again that I am probably an extreme moderate ( ) on here. I think both sides are wrong, as you say. And right. Neither am I asking you to justify your posting on pasoti - you've made it clear that you won't. I think your role as President may be compromised - for different reasons - if you engage in discussion on either site and, like it or not, you now cannot avoid posting in your official capacity. Any aggro you get goes with that job. Maybe you should start an El Presidente site in order to straddle the two ( ). Your choice seems to have been to accept the sycophancy on pasoti rather than wading through some of the shit on here and find that it is actually good, once it has been composted, for helping things grow. You don't have to be on the defensive on here (mostly). Fighting your corner openly without responding to the rancour would be OK.

Thing is, I don't think Chris really does want to distance himself from Nooly.

And if you continue to swim with the sharks, you'll always stink of fish....

Plus of course, when you have people like Greenjock being treated with such disdain, then them venting their anger is only natural.

Chris Webb wrote:

Southborne wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Hi All

Just a note to say basically this bitter war of words between ATD, Pasoti and individual posters has to end.

Wrong has been done on both sides but the past is the past.

It is done and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.

I am sick of constantly being on the defensive on this site. Every question seems to have a reference to Ian Newell or Pasoti and this makes it impossible for me to post freely.

I am asking that the posters on ATD cut me some slack by treating me as an individual rather than constantly trying to link me with organisations /individuals that I cannot and will not speak for.

In return I committ to answer constructive questions in as open and honest manner as possible.

The war of words is destructive, junvenile and quite frankly pathetic (from both ends).

I am not saying there will never be disagreements because that is healthy. I am simply calling for a two way level of respect.

Chris

Sound sentiments but there has been wrong on BOTH sides, So will you copy this you have said and paste it on Pasoti? If there is any thawing in relationships it has to come from both sides

What am calling for has already been accepted by Pasoti/Ian Newell- i.e agree to disagree and move on!

Not a case of "Agreeing to disagree" but acknowledgement that ATD exists, A link banner and those that have called people scum or worse to say sorry (On Both Sides) and to fight for the club, It may have been saved but to some the fight is not over yet

funny man wrote:

I came on here because I was sick and tired of the sycophancy, the closed-shop and the closed minds on pasoti. I came on here with a lot of trepidation. I think some of the abuse on here is way over the top. Some of the accusations and implications made are plain stupid.

I was totally pissed off in the last couple of days when someone (maybe from inside ATD, maybe pasoti or even elsewhere....) posted purporting to be Mr Newell or one of his lackeys. I was bored that someone would do that - anyone who gets their kicks over such wind-ups is a sad person. Their other hobby is probably pulling the legs off spiders or saying rude words to old ladies. But I was pissed off that some on here claimed to know who it was but have been unwilling to share it. If that's not replicating the "I know something that you don't" behaviour that has been complained about on pasoti, I don't know what is.

But I can say that on here and not be ganged up on and not be banned. It is an open site. I think I have seen only two or three comments removed with an explanation from the person who did the removing - usually, by implication, for crude abuse pure and simple. That cannot be said for pasoti. That is why, increasingly, I come here to the exclusion of pasoti. I am growing to love this place and all the people on it - it's like one big family. ( )

When I started on here I thought that complaints about pasoti were indulgent and adolescent, or worse. I was wrong. Pasoti is the major site serving Argyle's internet fan-base. To ignore its behaviour - or at least the behaviour of those in control - would be ridiculous. They ought to be up for scrutiny as much as anyone else including ATD. ATD can take it - pasoti can't.

I am not saying all that in order to continue any war or vendetta. I am saying it to try to demonstrate again that I am probably an extreme moderate ( ) on here. I think both sides are wrong, as you say. And right. Neither am I asking you to justify your posting on pasoti - you've made it clear that you won't. I think your role as President may be compromised - for different reasons - if you engage in discussion on either site and, like it or not, you now cannot avoid posting in your official capacity. Any aggro you get goes with that job. Maybe you should start an El Presidente site in order to straddle the two ( ). Your choice seems to have been to accept the sycophancy on pasoti rather than wading through some of the shit on here and find that it is actually good, once it has been composted, for helping things grow. You don't have to be on the defensive on here (mostly). Fighting your corner openly without responding to the rancour would be OK.

Very well put Funnyman. That is so similar to my experience.

Czarcasm wrote:

Thing is, I don't think Chris really does want to distance himself from Nooly.

And if you continue to swim with the sharks, you'll always stink of fish....

Plus of course, when you have people like Greenjock being treated with such disdain, then them venting their anger is only natural.

Thats about the long and short of it Czarcasm, and what is more galling is that if a postal worker in Liverpool was treated with half as much disdain, Chris would ensure that no mail was sorted or delivered in Plymouth for the next bloody week. I'll leave it now if that is what is agreed but I will say that because of the behaviour of people who are publicly seen as the owners buddies and in a position of some power within the club, I don't much feel like attending any Argyle games at the moment. Not that I attend that many, but every supporter should be treated the same and as a potential customer, and Ian Newell has ensured that this customer/supporter won't be contibuting anything financially to the club.

funny man wrote:

I came on here because I was sick and tired of the sycophancy, the closed-shop and the closed minds on pasoti. I came on here with a lot of trepidation. I think some of the abuse on here is way over the top. Some of the accusations and implications made are plain stupid.

I was totally pissed off in the last couple of days when someone (maybe from inside ATD, maybe pasoti or even elsewhere....) posted purporting to be Mr Newell or one of his lackeys. I was bored that someone would do that - anyone who gets their kicks over such wind-ups is a sad person. Their other hobby is probably pulling the legs off spiders or saying rude words to old ladies. But I was pissed off that some on here claimed to know who it was but have been unwilling to share it. If that's not replicating the "I know something that you don't" behaviour that has been complained about on pasoti, I don't know what is.

But I can say that on here and not be ganged up on and not be banned. It is an open site. I think I have seen only two or three comments removed with an explanation from the person who did the removing - usually, by implication, for crude abuse pure and simple. That cannot be said for pasoti. That is why, increasingly, I come here to the exclusion of pasoti. I am growing to love this place and all the people on it - it's like one big family. ( )

When I started on here I thought that complaints about pasoti were indulgent and adolescent, or worse. I was wrong. Pasoti is the major site serving Argyle's internet fan-base. To ignore its behaviour - or at least the behaviour of those in control - would be ridiculous. They ought to be up for scrutiny as much as anyone else including ATD. ATD can take it - pasoti can't.

I am not saying all that in order to continue any war or vendetta. I am saying it to try to demonstrate again that I am probably an extreme moderate ( ) on here. I think both sides are wrong, as you say. And right. Neither am I asking you to justify your posting on pasoti - you've made it clear that you won't. I think your role as President may be compromised - for different reasons - if you engage in discussion on either site and, like it or not, you now cannot avoid posting in your official capacity. Any aggro you get goes with that job. Maybe you should start an El Presidente site in order to straddle the two ( ). Your choice seems to have been to accept the sycophancy on pasoti rather than wading through some of the shit on here and find that it is actually good, once it has been composted, for helping things grow. You don't have to be on the defensive on here (mostly). Fighting your corner openly without responding to the rancour would be OK.

An excellent summary. The penultimate paragraph [that means next to last for some of our friends] is pivotal.

Nothing will 'change' unless there is a level playing field. People who self promote and attempt to silence all opposition will always be scrutinised here and elsewhere.

Forget it Chris. ATD posters will continue to question the club and individuals as and when they feel inclined.

Quote :

and Ian Newell has ensured that this customer/supporter won't be contibuting anything financially to the club.

Now.... as president and as a friend of Ian Newell... do you not think that its a disgrace its got to the above point Chris ?




It would be a very big mistake to assume every supporter is as committed to the cause as you are Chris, and equally as big a mistake would be to hold a grudge against those same people.