The European Union

'Paul Krugman the Nobel Prize winner for Economics stated in his New York Times column that "Mr Brown and Alistair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer have defined the character of the worldwide rescue effort, with other wealthy nations playing catch-up." He also stated that "Luckily for the world economy,... Gordon Brown and his officials are making sense,... And they may have shown us the way through this crisis."

The British banking bail-out example was closely followed by the rest of Europe, as well as the U.S Government, who on the 14 October 2008 announced a $250bn (£143bn) plan to purchase stakes in a wide variety of banks in an effort to restore confidence in the sector. The money came from the $700bn bail-out package approved by U.S. lawmakers earlier that month.

A wave of international action to address the financial crisis had at last an effect on stock markets around the world. Although shares in the affected banks fell, the Dow Jones went up by more than 900 points, or 11.1 per cent, while London shares also bounced back, with the FTSE100 Index closing more than 8 per cent higher on the 13 October 2008.'

For all the working class Tories out there :

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Iggy wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

"Gordon Brown is to blame..." is another fallacy paraded as fact. Was Brown responsible for Freddie Mac, Fanny May, AIG, Iceland, Lehman Brothers or HBoS folding? No. Of course not.

Osborne has added more to the national debt than EVERY Labour Chancellor in history added together.

In only 4 years.

And you may, by your own admission, be a thief but please do not tar me with your brush.

Got it?

I missed that you were a fan of Brown FFS! Sold all our gold, pensions, indistinguishable from a Tory but tells you he's an ordinary man, what a cnut.

I don't recall saying anything in support of Gordon Brown; I merely pointed what he didn't do and those things caused the crash here not Gordon Brown. Brown is culpable, of course, for not regulating The City effectively but at every stage the Tories were campaigning for red tape to be cut and for The City to be Set Free and the Dead Hand Of Control to be lessened so them blaming Brown is at best hypocritical and at worst bare-faced lies which have gone unchallenged by the media most of which blindly supports them or is shit-scared of their charter being destroyed. Only crackpot lefties were calling better regulation of The City and blowhards like Fred The Shred dictated the orthodoxy which was basically free market Thatcherite dribble as events went on to incontrovertibly prove.

Besides I would have thought that Gordon Brown would have been massively popular with you if only for owning a cracking pair of initials and for being the clunking fist that crashed down thus stopping us from joining the single €uropean currency which, were it not for him, would surely have happened.

While I am here here's an article which makes the folly of UKIP eloquently clear: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You probably won't click the link so here's quote from it:

Quote :

There is no land of milk and honey waiting on the other side of xenophobia. There is only a dystopia of suspicion, hate, isolationism and abject poverty.

Here's another:

Quote :

...opt for a party whose policy boiled down to: we want to be more anglosaxon, even if it means being much poorer. Because, make no mistake, that is what is being proposed.

and another:

Quote :

The fatal flaw in the typical Ukip supporter’s logic is in seeing public services as somehow fixed; they are not. They can increase as well as contract and they depend on tax take. The idea that getting rid of contributing migrants will magically free up spaces in schools and beds in hospitals is a nonsense in the medium and long term. As the population and tax take reduce, hospital beds and school spaces will diminish by the equivalent. If the population leaving are net contributors, these services will shrink disproportionately. Getting rid of migrants will make school places scarcer, reduce social housing capacity, make hospital waiting lists longer. It is as simple as that.

Why do you keep quoting me UKIP? I've told you I'm not a fan, not of UKIP, LIB, LAB, Con, Dem none of them, I don't support the system they work in, they are all the same, shafting different people at different time but the same animal none the less. Voting for Milliband instead of Cameron or Farage makes no difference the country is run by the old school tie network and big business which they are all part of. To really change this country we need a proper grass roots revolution, out of Europe, out of Parliment with a new constitution. I see no need for us to belong to world superpower be it economic or military we should look after the British people, roof over their heads, food in their bellies and proper welfare state, if that makes you think I'm xenophobic so be it.
Keeping us out of the euro was the only decent thing that slime ball Brown ever did, horrible bastard.
Blame UKIP all you like the system is fooked and has to change it can't go on as it is or we will end with blood on the streets, surprised we haven't already tbh.

Iggy wrote:

Right for the last feckin time I'm aware that Farage went to Eton, is a suit and I'm not a massive fan, at least he has opened up debate that no one wants to have. I don't vote UKIP, Lad, Lib! CON and if I did it would only be to protest at the others.

Oh Iggster, Shirley you know that Nigey went to Dulwich College, not Eton, then went straight to an entry level job in the City where he was moderately successful in doing a real job thus setting him apart from MillyCamClegg.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Brown is culpable, of course, for not regulating The City effectively but at every stage the Tories were campaigning for red tape to be cut

How fooking lame is that?

13 years Broon had to make things better and you want him excused because he only had a majority of 253 MPs over the Tories?

You couldn't make it up.

You're right, of course.

I am not worthy.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Right for the last feckin time I'm aware that Farage went to Eton, is a suit and I'm not a massive fan, at least he has opened up debate that no one wants to have. I don't vote UKIP, Lad, Lib! CON and if I did it would only be to protest at the others.

Oh Iggster, Shirley you know that Nigey went to Dulwich College, not Eton, then went straight to and entry level job in the City where he was moderately successful in doing a real job thus setting him apart from MillyCamClegg.

I stand corrected, it seems to be an Internet fact that he went to Eton, oh well, I bet he still hasn't got fook all in common with me.

Josh Pope wrote:

Mr Tisdale..

Ok well I don’t know what the ‘meeja’ is but I don’t think it’s fair to pass someone else’s views off as propaganda where your own argument is based on the bollocks spouted by angry  eurosceptics. You should broaden your reading Tis.

I don’t follow all of Clegg’s argument, I mean obviously the 3 million jobs loss thing wont happen but that doesn’t mean no jobs at all. HOWEVER there are 3 million jobs linked to the EU which accounts to 1/10 of British jobs. Would you like to risk them? You can open your eyes if you like and realise that businesses WILL move abroad. Not everything, and not 3 million, but a pretty hefty chunk would simply to avoid tax from non-EU countries. In the long term it would make sense for business to move abroad to save money. Ergo, people lose their jobs.

On another note, we do gain more in trade than we send out. The EU is our biggest trading partner, accounting for 52% of our trade. This pulls in about £400bn per year, which far outweighs the £12bn or so we spend on the EU each year. Leaving would save us that £12bn but we'd encounter different long-term problems. If we left the EU but still continued to trade with the countries in it, we would STILL need to abide by EU rules, and we'd have to pay EU tariffs for exports. So basically you just lose your chance to change things.

When the Confederation of British Industry surveyed its members in 2013, it found extremely strong support for Britain to stay in the EU among both big and small businesses: 78 per cent wanted to stay versus only 10 per cent wanting to quit. Three-quarters thought leaving would have a negative impact on foreign investment in the UK.

Finally, 1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU. More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13. Driving licences issued in the UK are valid throughout the EU. All changes if we leave the EU. Would anyone like to help look after the people who'll be forced to come back, or build the homes for them to live in?

We should stay in and join the Schengen.

Sorry, I missed that you were a kid, should have been obvious really.

Please please please, go back and read what you have posted, everything in there is either plain wrong or assumptive nonsense, fecking driving licenses worked fine in Europe prior to us joining the EU, British people lived abroad in their hundreds of thousands before we joined the EU, the CBI is a tiny little lobby group which represents bloated suits with so much to gain from being in the EU, the EU is our biggest trading partner but we have a massive deficit in trade of goods with them, nearly £1.5 billion, that is £1,500,000,000, every single week, way over £70 billion a year, what does "pulls in £400 billion a year even mean?

On the 3 million jobs, of course you don't know how many might be lost, just the same as I don't know whether any would be gained, nobody knows. All this crap about major companies upping sticks and leaving is just scaremongering, the UK's cost base is far lower than the EU's big economies and it is getting lower all the time as the influx of foreign workers forces down wages, not an opinion, not a racist viewpoint, a simple statement of economic fact.

The bill of goods you have bought is seriously tainted, all these politicians and big business people are doing great from the EU, they love it, the trouble is SMEs do not do so well with the massive layers of administration, big business makes higher profits by cutting staff numbers and their wages, SMEs have the same issue with wages but their imperative is expansion which means employing more people, the benefit of the EU is transfer of goods within the market, that is what big business does, SMEs tend to be much more reliant on their own domestic markets, the Pro boys will always be able to find some dagget manufacturer in the West Midlands who exports 90% of their production to Europe, for that one there will be ten who manufacture almost exclusively for the domestic market.

So many of you kids seem to have sucked on the EU dummy so hard that it has affected your ability to look logically at the issue, that's a shame because it is the EU as much as anything which is fooking over the younger generation all over Europe, FFS open you eyes and start questioning the Pro assumptions, don't of course accept all the anti stuff as read, none of these feckers actually know what would happen if we came out, everybody highlights the parts which they think helps their case, you are in for four months of that from the politicians now, Labs bloviating that the Tories are liars because they claim to have halved the deficit, but only if considered as a proportion of GDP, yet the tent pole of their strategy is to bloviate on at how the Autumn statement will take publis sector spending back to levels not seen since the 1930s, what they don't tell is that is "only if considered as a proportion of GDP".

They are all duplicitous bastards, I just listened to Andy Burnham bitching about the grief in A&E departments all over the country, he is the very crunt who oversaw the the beginnings of privatisation of the NHS and was a prime mover in the creation of the PFIs which are draining cash out of the current NHS budget, he did anything he could to make himself and the previous Labour administration look good at the time without giving a fetid ding's gonad what a clustefork he was leaving to affect so many people in the future.

Bottom line, the objective of the EU is to become the government of Europe, on May the 7th we all get the opportunity to vote out the UK government if we don't like what they do, you are never going to be given an opportunity to vote out the EU leadership, don't be taken in by the Euro elections, MEPs can do next to fook all about the Commission, Juncker the tax evader is basically king of Europe with his gang of commissioners running a junta over which we the people have no control, FFS they started a war in the Ukraine and are supporting a fascist regime in Kiev which is happy to bomb civilians, the Govt in Kiev is like Britain being run by the EDL with the help of the BNP, actually it is far worse than that, and you want us to be a subserviant part of the regime which not only condones that but actually made it happen?

Bugger but I can go on when the mood takes me.

Ideologically I'd love us to leave and be an independent nation. However, based solely on whether I think we're better off in or out this second then I'd have to say in..

There's bad bits about both situations so it's very tricky.. I'm not even convinced there's a right answer.

Iggy wrote:

I bet he still hasn't got fook all in common with me.

Do you like a pint, a fag and a laugh with your mates?

Do you want to see whats best for the people of this country?

Nigey ain't everybody's cup of tea but he is far more approachable than MillyCamClegg and he does genuinely hate the political charade, the only thing that worries me is that he will simply get arsed with the whole thing and walk away leaving the Kip, which is the only thing close to an alternative to the mainstream, leaderless, the Kip without Nigey has no appeal.

The Greens are there and growing but they are really only the renaissance of the Liberal movement which Clegg had strangled, without Nigey your choice is Red or Blue Tories fronted by Camoron or Milipede, that's not a choice I want to be reduced to, in my book anyone but the LibLabCon is the mantra.

Josh Pope wrote:

Ideologically I'd love us to leave and be an independent nation. However, based solely on whether I think we're better off in or out this second then I'd have to say in..

There's bad bits about both situations so it's very tricky.. I'm not even convinced there's a right answer.

I just don't get that at all, how can someone of 17 years of age be that scared of the future? How many 17 year olds thinking of going to Uni next year will finish up in debt for the next 20 years of their life even assuming they can get a decent job when they leave qualify, and that is with us in the EU.

Exactly how much worse do you think it could be?

We have a massive trade deficit, a £100 billion a year fiscal deficit, we are nearly one and a half trillion in debt, we have an unfunded pensions obligation which nobody can even bring themselves to calculate because it is so huge, dying people waiting in ambulances outside A&Es all over the country..............and you are worried about a future outside of the EU?

I am giving up now, honest.

A couple of cracking posts Tis, when you can be bothered to put the effort in it's hard to think of anyone more worth the read.

Les Miserable wrote:

A couple of cracking posts Tis, when you can be bothered to put the effort in it's hard to think of anyone more worth the read.

Tis is a very good read on politics and the EU, real thought provoking stuff!... mind you when it comes to football he talks bollocks.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

A couple of cracking posts Tis, when you can be bothered to put the effort in it's hard to think of anyone more worth the read.

Tis is a very good read on politics and the EU, real thought provoking stuff!... mind you when it comes to football he talks bollocks.

Tis gets politics a lot more than most on here, it's the depressing mantra that it could always be worse and the belief that they "belong" to a party viewpoint that gets me, not labour you're obviously a Tory. Trust no one, question everything.

We are all of us in this world human beings, I am no more entitled to my use of resources, my house, my car, than for example an African child born as I type this, the resources consumed by football around the world could be put to far better use for all mankind....................and i'll give all my shit away when Bob and Bono do

Iggy wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Right for the last feckin time I'm aware that Farage went to Eton, is a suit and I'm not a massive fan, at least he has opened up debate that no one wants to have. I don't vote UKIP, Lad, Lib! CON and if I did it would only be to protest at the others.

Oh Iggster, Shirley you know that Nigey went to Dulwich College, not Eton, then went straight to and entry level job in the City where he was moderately successful in doing a real job thus setting him apart from MillyCamClegg.

I stand corrected, it seems to be an Internet fact that he went to Eton, oh well, I bet he still hasn't got fook all in common with me.

He does like a pint in his local pub......just down the road from here.........

All the pub bullshit is the same us trying to have us believe that Margret Thatcher was the poor daughter of a guy that owned a corner shop and Major and Blair were builders labourers. LMFAO.

I give up, what is LMFAO?

Well LMAO is 'Laughing My Ass Off' so I imagine LMFAO is the same with the 'f' word in the middle.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Iggy wrote:

I bet he still hasn't got fook all in common with me.

Do you like a pint, a fag and a laugh with your mates?

Do you want to see whats best for the people of this country?

Nigey ain't everybody's cup of tea but he is far more approachable than MillyCamClegg and he does genuinely hate the political charade, the only thing that worries me is that he will simply get arsed with the whole thing and walk away leaving the Kip, which is the only thing close to an alternative to the mainstream, leaderless, the Kip without Nigey has no appeal.

The Greens are there and growing but they are really only the renaissance of the Liberal movement which Clegg had strangled, without Nigey your choice is Red or Blue Tories fronted by Camoron or Milipede, that's not a choice I want to be reduced to, in my book anyone but the LibLabCon is the mantra.

The thing I hate about Farage is the guff he spouts which plainly isn't true, such as the recent "non english speaking" people in the NHS thing.

ALL clinically trained NHS employees (inc Nurses) have to pass an IELTS test and get at least 7 out of 9. I'd imagine that, yes, some of them speak with an accent - as do Scousers and Glaswegians and people from Belfast. I'd also imagine that it would be preferable to train up some of the 'native' jobless to be a nurse than it would be to import qualified staff, but at present Farage plays on people's fears with nonsense claims other than anecdotal evidence which doesnt seem to be supported by reality.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Iggy wrote:

I bet he still hasn't got fook all in common with me.

Do you like a pint, a fag and a laugh with your mates?

Do you want to see whats best for the people of this country?

Nigey ain't everybody's cup of tea but he is far more approachable than MillyCamClegg and he does genuinely hate the political charade, the only thing that worries me is that he will simply get arsed with the whole thing and walk away leaving the Kip, which is the only thing close to an alternative to the mainstream, leaderless, the Kip without Nigey has no appeal.

The Greens are there and growing but they are really only the renaissance of the Liberal movement which Clegg had strangled, without Nigey your choice is Red or Blue Tories fronted by Camoron or Milipede, that's not a choice I want to be reduced to, in my book anyone but the LibLabCon is the mantra.

The thing I hate about Farage is the guff he spouts which plainly isn't true, such as the recent "non english speaking" people in the NHS thing.

ALL clinically trained NHS employees (inc Nurses) have to pass an IELTS test and get at least 7 out of 9. I'd imagine that, yes, some of them speak with an accent - as do Scousers and Glaswegians and people from Belfast. I'd also imagine that it would be preferable to train up some of the 'native' jobless to be a nurse than it would be to import qualified staff, but at present Farage plays on people's fears with nonsense claims other than anecdotal evidence which doesnt seem to be supported by reality.

I've met one Mock, a surgeon who barely understood anything I said, I asked to have another Doctor and they did so. I'm pretty good with accents generally but this was bad. However it was ten years ago and things may have changed, most of it has deteriorated in my view but I digress. On the whole this guy was the exception and I've spent quite a bit of time in hospital in the last ten years so speak from experience. There are a lot of foreign nurses and doctors in Derridord at least, this is what he is really referring to. Are the foreign workers stealing our job or is that they get these jobs because they work harder than our kids do, don't party and are more dedicated. I think this is part of the problem I also think we should be looking to reverse that trend. I have children I want them to have a future that is worth living, I don't feel a need to provide jobs, housing and healthcare to the rest of the world, the trouble is that the real debates we should be having about the distribution of wealth, the dismantling of the health service get forgotten whilst every argues about Romanians getting benefit or no.

Iggy wrote:

Are the foreign workers stealing our job or is that they get these jobs because they work harder than our kids do, don't party and are more dedicated.

They are just cheaper Iggy, training nurses and doctors, like everything else, is more expensive in this country than most other places in the world, so we just sit back and leech the world of many of its best and brightest, it's the 1960s and 70s brain drain in reverse, except of course our best and brightest now make their way to wherever the pay and conditions are better, the US, OZ, Canada and more than ever before, China.

Immigration as an issue is a political tool, a hook to grab the attention of the voter, UKIP wants out of the EU and has adapted its policies to try and achieve a position where it can exert sufficient pressure to force a referendum, obviously there are a load of opportunists that have leaped on to the bandwagon, but most would fade away if Brexit could be had, Nigey has no ambitions to remain in any cabinet beyond said referendum and nobody should want him to, he couldn't organise a bunfight in a bakery, piss up in a brewery and he would be fine but we all of us have a skill set of sorts.