The European Union

What do we reckon then?

In or out? Personally feel we're best in (well, we definitely are) but wondered what you guys thought.. Had a debate with a family member who wants to leave the EU today and dramatically shunned him. He's still very anti-EU but now has no reason to be.

Like Scotland in the UK, Sensible to stay in.

No Pete, I was for in but those prats over the there are taking the piss. So out, out for me

Germany lost the war........but through the EU rule Europe......so before we have no part of the UK left to govern ourselves.....I'm for out.

General election this year......I want ro see a change in political parties that have run this country into the ground........and maybe a 20% vote for UKIP will wake them all up.......and start listening to the people that have no say through the Tory/Labour/LibDem merry-go-round.

Out. I'm pissed of with not being able to buy a bent banana, or a vacuum cleaner with a motor more powerful than 1800 watts. Don't they know I have dog hair to hoover up, FFS!

Of course, things aren't helped by a very weak leader representing the UK in Europe.

Tgwu wrote:

No Pete, I was for in but those prats over the there are taking the piss. So out, out for me

How?

feck Europe!

Out I say.

Out but maintain an healthy relationship with EU in terms of trade and relations.

Person Of Interest wrote:

Out. I'm pissed of with not being able to buy a bent banana, or a vacuum cleaner with a motor more powerful than 1800 watts. Don't they know I have dog hair to hoover up, FFS!

Of course, things aren't helped by a very weak leader representing the UK in Europe.

Plenty of bent fruit n veg in Cyprus. It's what they do best. They onlyplay by EU rules when it suits them.

I think we're better off staying within the Union but only if we can regain more control over our borders and benefit systems. MInd you, another couple of Tory governments and we won't have a welfare state to protect. All the working class Tory voters take note.

Tringreen wrote:

Person Of Interest wrote:

Out. I'm pissed of with not being able to buy a bent banana, or a vacuum cleaner with a motor more powerful than 1800 watts. Don't they know I have dog hair to hoover up, FFS!

Of course, things aren't helped by a very weak leader representing the UK in Europe.

Plenty of bent fruit n veg in Cyprus. It's what they do best. They onlyplay by EU rules when it suits them.

I think we're better off staying within the Union but only if we can regain more control over our borders and benefit systems. MInd you, another couple of Tory governments and we won't have a welfare state to protect. All the working class Tory voters take note.

We already have that.

The UK government is the problem.

Angry wrote:

Out but maintain an healthy relationship with EU in terms of trade and relations.

"maintain a healthy"?

Are you mad?

We have a trade in goods deficit with the EU of between 70 and a 100 billion pounds a year, next year we could easily have to pay £20 billion just to be in the club. Last year nearly £7 billion of the Eu budget either went to people who should not have been paid it or they simply don't know where it went, it costs £250 million a year to move the whole clusterfork from Brussels to Strabourg just to keep the Frogs happy, Barroso, Rumpy Pumpy and that complete crunt bitch who has never been elected to anything Ashton started a fecking war in the Ukraine.

I want out so bad I can taste it, I wanted out in '75 after the kiddy fiddler took us in on a false premise, I couldn't believe then how so many fooking noobies got scared into voting Yes, I was young mind and had no idea what a fecking moron the average voter is.

The EU is just about the largest trading group, only of the sheeple's favourite mantras, but only because of the UK being in, if we left then the Commonwealth would be bigger, have six times the population, be resource rich and have strong economic growth while the EU would be in recession. But that don't matter a jot, countries compete on their own merits, big trading blocks are regressive and serve only the strongest member, that is why the Yanks and Germans love them so much, they want control, the thought of independent countries competing with them scares them shitless.

We will not lose 3 million jobs, all the car manufacturers will not leave the country, the finance industry will not leave London, all the immigrants will not have to go home, employment practices will not regress to the 19th century, although some working zero hours contracts would say they already had, it's all corporate bull shit designed to scare the weak minded into voting for the status quo which suits the Suits.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Angry wrote:

Out but maintain an healthy relationship with EU in terms of trade and relations.

"maintain a healthy"?

Are you mad?

We have a trade in goods deficit with the EU of between 70 and a 100 billion pounds a year, next year we could easily have to pay £20 billion just to be in the club. Last year nearly £7 billion of the Eu budget either went to people who should not have been paid it or they simply don't know where it went, it costs £250 million a year to move the whole clusterfork from Brussels to Strabourg just to keep the Frogs happy, Barroso, Rumpy Pumpy and that complete crunt bitch who has never been elected to anything Ashton started a fecking war in the Ukraine.

I want out so bad I can taste it, I wanted out in '75 after the kiddy fiddler took us in on a false premise, I couldn't believe then how so many fooking noobies got scared into voting Yes, I was young mind and had no idea what a fecking moron the average voter is.

The EU is just about the largest trading group, only of the sheeple's favourite mantras, but only because of the UK being in, if we left then the Commonwealth would be bigger, have six times the population, be resource rich and have strong economic growth while the EU would be in recession. But that don't matter a jot, countries compete on their own merits, big trading blocks are regressive and serve only the strongest member, that is why the Yanks and Germans love them so much, they want control, the thought of independent countries competing with them scares them shitless.

We will not lose 3 million jobs, all the car manufacturers will not leave the country, the finance industry will not leave London, all the immigrants will not have to go home, employment practices will not regress to the 19th century, although some working zero hours contracts would say they already had, it's all corporate bull shit designed to scare the weak minded into voting for the status quo which suits the Suits.

EU is shite but the uk will still need to trade with them independant or not in order to bring in more money.

The EU as it is has several issues.

I think I still prefer the idea of shaping it to fit our narrative, over the idea of leaving it completely.

That's why the idiocy of getting elected for the European Parliament, then not turning up, claiming huge expenses bills in the process leaves me feeling slightly cold.

I'm not one who gets bothered over someone else talking a different language on the tube, I don't care about 'Polish' shops opening up down my street, I don't blame society's many ills on immigration, but I'd like the EU to be more accountable and less, well, corrupt.

The first thing you have to remember with regards to trade outside of the EU is that we are not considered a major world power by some of the largest countries. Take China for example, their president on his last visit to the UK told Cameron to remember that China does not consider the UK a major player on it's own. The USA has an economy what, 7 times the size of us? China 5?

When we negotiate with places like America, China and Japan then we do so as part of the world's largest trade bloc which accounts for roughly 20% of world GDP. These places have to take Brussels seriously as a trade partner. If we were on our own, then the balance of power would be very different, we could even be bullied into deals, in particular from the US.

If we want to trade with the EU then we'll have to abide by their rules. Which means we wont improve our trading and we'll get no say in how it happens. If we want to ship goods to the EU then we have to abide by EU restrictions without the opportunity to change them. Take UKIP's MEP's, happy to suck up their wages and expenses but when was the last time you saw any of them debating for the country? They don't attend, so what's the point? How does that, in any way, help anyone?

Brussels certainly has too much say in what we do, but there are ways of decentralising power away from it. Changing treaties so Brussels has less power in certain areas is certainly an option. What you have to remember with this is that we are not the only ones who are dissatisfied with the centralised control.

There's a lot of good within the EU remember. The first of note is the single market, which enables British businesses access to the entire EU with its 500 million consumers. Free trade is one of the most powerful ways of boosting wealth. Exports to the single market help support 4.2 million jobs, 3.1 million directly and 1.1 million indirectly. It would be foolish indeed to compromise access to this market.

Finally, and with regards to the car industry.. If the UK no longer had access to the single market and merely relied on its WTO membership then the industry WOULD be exposed. The EU imposes a 10% tariff on imported cars and a 5% tax in imported components. If our industry had to pay that sort of tax, it would be hard-pressed to compete. Seeing as the automotive industry was responsible for £61b of turnover and 720,000 jobs in 2013, and 77% of the vehicles made being exported, it would be disastrous if the car manufacturers moved part or even all of their production into the EU.

We would lose jobs. That's not debatable.

We're better off staying in and helping to reform than leaving as billy big bollocks and try to do it all on our own.

So agree with Mock, basically.

In. And join Schengen. It would make things a lot easier.

It is so corrupt yet our civil service bow to and enforce every tiny detail of shite they produce.
I think we would survive outside.

seadog wrote:

It is so corrupt yet our  civil service bow to and enforce every tiny detail of shite they produce.
I think we would survive outside.

They don't have to though. The EU is not always to blame!

Believe it or not, a lot of German's have the same reservations as many in the UK. They would never leave though. Just put pressure on the German politicians and change it from within.

Survive and thrive, bureaucracy(an EU speciality) is the enemy of progression.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

In. And join Schengen. It would make things a lot easier.

I agree!!

We're a lot better off in the EU in my eyes.

What Tis said with bells on, out and quick about it, it's another mechanism to confuse and befuddle the population whilst they steal our cash, does anybody saying we should stay know the cost of belonging? How the feck is paying billions of quid to the men in black good for the country?

Out.
We could still trade freely with Europe as our imports far outweigh exports to the EU. BMW's biggest market in the EU area is the UK, companies like that aren't going to cut their nose off to spite their face.
The ludicrous immigrant situation can be addressed as well as other issues such as fisheries, things we cannot influence whilst in the EU.

The EU is clearly now far from a simple trading bloc as voted for in the 1975 & although it has morphed into something way beyond its remit nobody under the age of around 58 has ever been allowed to vote on it.

Josh Pope wrote:

The first thing you have to remember with regards to trade outside of the EU is that we are not considered a major world power by some of the largest countries. Take China for example, their president on his last visit to the UK told Cameron to remember that China does not consider the UK a major player on it's own. The USA has an economy what, 7 times the size of us? China 5?

When we negotiate with places like America, China and Japan then we do so as part of the world's largest trade bloc which accounts for roughly 20% of world GDP. These places have to take Brussels seriously as a trade partner. If we were on our own, then the balance of power would be very different, we could even be bullied into deals, in particular from the US.

If we want to trade with the EU then we'll have to abide by their rules. Which means we wont improve our trading and we'll get no say in how it happens. If we want to ship goods to the EU then we have to abide by EU restrictions without the opportunity to change them. Take UKIP's MEP's, happy to suck up their wages and expenses but when was the last time you saw any of them debating for the country? They don't attend, so what's the point? How does that, in any way, help anyone?

Brussels certainly has too much say in what we do, but there are ways of decentralising power away from it. Changing treaties so Brussels has less power in certain areas is certainly an option. What you have to remember with this is that we are not the only ones who are dissatisfied with the centralised control.

There's a lot of good within the EU remember. The first of note is the single market, which enables British businesses access to the entire EU with its 500 million consumers. Free trade is one of the most powerful ways of boosting wealth. Exports to the single market help support 4.2 million jobs, 3.1 million directly and 1.1 million indirectly. It would be foolish indeed to compromise access to this market.

Finally, and with regards to the car industry.. If the UK no longer had access to the single market and merely relied on its WTO membership then the industry WOULD be exposed. The EU imposes a 10% tariff on imported cars and a 5% tax in imported components. If our industry had to pay that sort of tax, it would be hard-pressed to compete. Seeing as the automotive industry was responsible for £61b of turnover and 720,000 jobs in 2013, and 77% of the vehicles made being exported, it would be disastrous if the car manufacturers moved part or even all of their production into the EU.

We would lose jobs. That's not debatable.

We're better off staying in and helping to reform than leaving as billy big bollocks and try to do it all on our own.

Jesus wept, do you work for the EU or are you just terminally fooking stupid?

I have seldom ever read so much utter bollocks, your basic premise that leaving the EU would mean losing access to the market, FFS man we import nearly 2 billion quids worth of gear from the EU than they buy from us.......EVERY FOOKING WEEK!

They can't afford a trade war with us, besides which it would break WTO rules.

You are exactly the sort of clueless fooking idiot who appears to dim people to have a clue so they believe you, FFS man have a little pride in yourself and stop propagating such drivel.

And the first thing you actually have to consider about trade outside the EU is that we have a surplus in it rather than the huge fooking deficit we run with the EU.

We get no tangible benefits from being in the EU, fook wits like you just think we do because you have sucked hard on the EU propaganda dick.

Everything would be cheaper if we were out, food would 30% cheaper as would energy prices, £20 billion it is going to cost us next year just to be a member................................

I give up.

Oh dear. Someone has a different view of thins and it really brings out the complete dimwit in you. You haven't even countered any of it you've just dismissed it as drivel.

At least make a decent contribution ffs