Peter Jones

Mr Jones is probably loving this - stop replying and his thread will drop to the bottom and away.

tigertony wrote:

Mr Jones is probably loving this - stop replying and his thread will drop to the bottom and away.

I wish Jones would drop to the bottom and away.

Preferably on the ocean he decided to use as some cheesy branding campaign.

Fanbases are only cemented after spells in the top division. That is why Norwich, Southampton and Pompey etc can still pull in 20k in the lower leagues and eternal underachievers like Argyle, don't.
You can now add Swansea, Hull and Reading to that list.

How many more times ffs ! ?

Tringreen wrote:

Fanbases are only cemented after spells in the top division. That is why Norwich, Southampton and Pompey etc can still pull in 20k in the lower leagues and eternal underachievers like Argyle, don't.
You can now add Swansea, Hull and Reading to that list.

How many more times ffs ! ?

Totally correct there - I went with my uncle and grandad first in '67 ish, now just look at the shite the likes of me has had to endure and I still go back!! I've met Jones on the train back a few times and had him down as one of us but he's been turned by the banker along with the usual suspects - in my book you only do that once, fukcing turncoat!!

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How much consul-tee fees is PJ taking out of Argyle when something as simple as this carries on?

tigertony wrote:

Mr Jones is probably loving this - stop replying and his thread will drop to the bottom and away.

good, i hope he has a damn good read.
BRENT OUT !

Tringreen wrote:

Fanbases are only cemented after spells in the top division. That is why Norwich, Southampton and Pompey etc can still pull in 20k in the lower leagues and eternal underachievers like Argyle, don't.
You can now add Swansea, Hull and Reading to that list.

How many more times ffs ! ?

In principle I completely agree with you and it's the exact reason why I was so staunchly against the original HHP plans. It's why I'm also far from wild about the current plans if their outer limit is 20,000.

What I don't get however is why the crowds are down on last season so far. We're doing a lot better in the league but ST tickets and POTD tickets are both down on last year. I get the overarching reasons for the low crowds- but I don't get the specific reasons. I'd have thought crowds would be up 500 on last season rather than down by 500 or more.

Maybe some people are averse to visiting the theatre of schemes whilst under Mr Brent's stewardship.

GreenSam wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Fanbases are only cemented after spells in the top division. That is why Norwich, Southampton and Pompey etc can still pull in 20k in the lower leagues and eternal underachievers like Argyle, don't.
You can now add Swansea, Hull and Reading to that list.

How many more times ffs ! ?

In principle I completely agree with you and it's the exact reason why I was so staunchly against the original HHP plans. It's why I'm also far from wild about the current plans if their outer limit is 20,000.

What I don't get however is why the crowds are down on last season so far. We're doing a lot better in the league but ST tickets and POTD tickets are both down on last year. I get the overarching reasons for the low crowds- but I don't get the specific reasons. I'd have thought crowds would be up 500 on last season rather than down by 500 or more.

Argyle crowds always crescendo after christmas when the public genuinely believe that a serious attempt at promotion is underway-that has been the case without exception in my years as a supporter.I would say the fall off in season tickets was caused by the cumulative effect of the generally awful fare on offer at HP for the past 5 years ago and was not helped by the rather disastrous collapse towards the end of last season when the play offs seemed to be in reach.And it was not that long ago [about 3 weeks in fact] that many supporters were giving Sheridan some serious grief about both results and the standard of football-it isn't as if Argyle really hit the ground running and have been producing performances and results consistently from the start.If Argyle keep winning and producing good performances,then some of the absentees will gradually return,although it will take many a long time to forgive and forget the mismanagement of the past few years-i know some people who simply won't go while Argyle are in the fourth division,too insulting and embarrassing.Generally speaking though,consistent results will bring improved attendances.As Peter Jones well knows.

Tringreen wrote:

Fanbases are only cemented after spells in the top division. That is why Norwich, Southampton and Pompey etc can still pull in 20k in the lower leagues and eternal underachievers like Argyle, don't.
You can now add Swansea, Hull and Reading to that list.

How many more times ffs ! ?

You are totally right IMO that Argyle would develop into a much more formidable club with just one or a few seasons of top flight football.

However I don't see how refusing to go right now is going to contribute anything constructive towards the future of the club.

We could still get promoted this season and Brent will be just as happy to get the club off his hands to a new owner, who can a) alleviate the immediate balloon payment/debt crisis b) invest in the team and the club c) deliver a more 'future proof' Mayflower.

I am no Brent sycophant, but that is about the best way Brent's ownership of the club could end - starting with promotion in the short term, more fans returning in the long run and success on the pitch in between.

I don't see anything wrong with Jones's comments - we are a big club in League Two, but there are a fair few 5,000+ home attendances now - Luton, Shrewsbury, Portsmouth, Oxford, Southend, Northampton, Tranmere. What makes Argyle so special, with this divine right to success? We are a bigger club than a lot of those, but we need to show it - we need 8,000 - 10,000 attendances like Luton, to fund the players we can and really dominate with our set up.

But this isn't the case. Argyle bizarrely are currently having lower attendances than when we had Robbie Williams at left back, Joe Lennox on the right wing and Rene Gilmartin in goal, with an embarrassingly low percentage of the Plymouth public bothering to attend (4,500 isn out of 250,000).

Instead of blaming the board for everything that's happened, I agree with him - acknowledge the Board has invested in the base of a very strong League Two team now, get down to Home Park and support them, and maybe there might be the funding for more positive initiatives (a new player or two) in January.

Sam,

consider fans still turning up because of a "Dunkirk spirit", backs to the wall sort of thing the first couple of seasons after admin. Last season at home particularly, was just as bad as the seasons we nearly got relegated out of the league. The backs to the wall attitude had worn off and fans wanted and expected an improvement. At home there wasn't one. The results were just as bad and standard of performance not much better. Football is an entertainment industry with admittedly a very loyal following but even it's most loyal followers will only take so much before walking away. Once they walk away, they find other outlets for their Saturdays. I know fans who have been doing other things during the summer and have continued with these pastimes into the Autumn rather than come to Home Park.

It wasn't a surprise to me in the slightest that season ticket sales were down. I know of other older fans who have stopped coming because of the closure of the Far Post club. They used to turn up early to ensure a car parking space and go in the club until kick off. After last season and finding the Britannia was too busy and a fair walk in the cold and rain; trying the Fans Fest and finding it too noisy or not for them, they had no where to go. Rather than hang around in the cold or sit in their cars, they didn't renew their season tickets. The crap football was obviously a factor but no Far Post was the final straw. Possibly only a handful of people but they all count.

A month of so ago I was talking to the chap who organises the London branches trips away. He hasn't organised a trip to Home Park in the last 9 months. The few London members still coming down are now making their own way. 5 of the few, sit in front of me. Last season apart from Tuesdays they were here every game. This season? One I haven't seen at all. Another has missed two games already and another missed yesterday as well. The ones still coming deserve a medal in my opinion. I've hardly seen two chaps who are usually behind me either. Of course they are all being counted as being here although their seats are empty.

If I know fans who are missing, I'm sure plenty of others do as well. It's hard to lose staunch fans, it's harder to get them back once they've gone.

This season there has been an improvement in results but the performances haven't been awe inspiring have they. Until yesterday scraping 1-0 wins and holding on by the skin of our teeth isn't exactly going to get fans flooding back through the doors is it?

Oh, and if Mr.Jones can't see that than he's got his finger on the wrong pulse.

an oldie but a goodie

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ejh wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Fanbases are only cemented after spells in the top division. That is why Norwich, Southampton and Pompey etc can still pull in 20k in the lower leagues and eternal underachievers like Argyle, don't.
You can now add Swansea, Hull and Reading to that list.

How many more times ffs ! ?

You are totally right IMO that Argyle would develop into a much more formidable club with just one or a few seasons of top flight football.

However I don't see how refusing to go right now is going to contribute anything constructive towards the future of the club.

We could still get promoted this season and Brent will be just as happy to get the club off his hands to a new owner, who can a) alleviate the immediate balloon payment/debt crisis b) invest in the team and the club c) deliver a more 'future proof' Mayflower.

I am no Brent sycophant, but that is about the best way Brent's ownership of the club could end - starting with promotion in the short term, more fans returning in the long run and success on the pitch in between.

I don't see anything wrong with Jones's comments - we are a big club in League Two, but there are a fair few 5,000+ home attendances now - Luton, Shrewsbury, Portsmouth, Oxford, Southend, Northampton, Tranmere. What makes Argyle so special, with this divine right to success? We are a bigger club than a lot of those, but we need to show it - we need 8,000 - 10,000 attendances like Luton, to fund the players we can and really dominate with our set up.

But this isn't the case. Argyle bizarrely are currently having lower attendances than when we had Robbie Williams at left back, Joe Lennox on the right wing and Rene Gilmartin in goal, with an embarrassingly low percentage of the Plymouth public bothering to attend (4,500 isn out of 250,000).

Instead of blaming the board for everything that's happened, I agree with him - acknowledge the Board has invested in the base of a very strong League Two team now, get down to Home Park and support them, and maybe there might be the funding for more positive initiatives (a new player or two) in January.

I personally refuse to go because I dislike Brent and his obvious use of local, dimwitted but devious wannabes, in turning the club into a bucket rattling, Avivafesting embarrassment, whilst he tries to make his money then pi$$ off.
The wider public who might be encouraged to attend eg the missing 6 to 10k from the Championship years, will begin to return if sustained success is achieved on the pitch. Others will not be interested until some cash backed ambition is displayed, the ground is finished with some style with real potential to add further capacity etc.

Nool and his gang always blame apathetic janners for not turning up in greater numbers when we were in the championship but the reality is that we were as well supported as other clubs with no top flight pedigree like Swansea, Hull, Cardiff, Bristol City etc. Give the punters an ambitious club with a forward looking stadium and they will come.
Much as the terminally addicted would like to believe the locals should flock to HP, they won't til the blocks are in place. Plymouth is no different to anywhere else.

Wasn't jones on about improving the 'match day experience' for ages. Except for a few things like voting on pasties and the family area which I doubt they put any money towards themselves it has got worse. The mayflower terrace has shut and it looks terrible, there's not enough catering staff and they've shut the far post. Once xmas is out of the way then if we're still up there he might see more punters. But the club shodnt really demand anything like that when either we have been shit on the pitch and poor off the pitch.

Its not just the £22 ticket that puts people off, but the overpriced dogshit on sale from the food kiosks. How long (and how many surveys) have Argyle fans said they are very dissatisfied with the food offerings and prices? Yet the club (and you Iddesleigh Goebbels) have done nothing. It must cost families almost £100 to go to an Argyle game- sorry to quote a bobbyism but its cheaper (and sometimes a lot more entertaining) to go to the cinema.

The marketing of the club is dire- even Torquay have signs around town advertising their next game. How many Plymouthians (non-regulars) would know who and when Argyle were playing without looking at the Herald? I'm not saying this would bring thousands in, but it may attract some interest (but I suppose if the club can't afford £900 for some cameras, they're not going to pay for marketing).

I've been POTD for the last 4 -5 years and I'm glad that I gave up my ST, as I pick and choose when I go. I have Sky so will be watching the Pompey game at home with a beer and normal priced food.

Instead of berating the fans, can't this "marketing genius" devise some offer to entice fans to HP for the Pompey game rather than slag them off? The bloke is a cretin.

Chemical Ali wrote:

Its not just the £22 ticket that puts people off, but the overpriced dogshit on sale from the food kiosks. How long (and how many surveys) have Argyle fans said they are very dissatisfied with the food offerings and prices? Yet the club (and you Iddesleigh Goebbels) have done nothing. It must cost families almost £100 to go to an Argyle game- sorry to quote a bobbyism but its cheaper (and sometimes a lot more entertaining) to go to the cinema.

The marketing of the club is dire- even Torquay have signs around town advertising their next game. How many Plymouthians (non-regulars) would know who and when Argyle were playing without looking at the Herald? I'm not saying this would bring thousands in, but it may attract some interest (but I suppose if the club can't afford £900 for some cameras, they're not going to pay for marketing).

I've been POTD for the last 4 -5 years and I'm glad that I gave up my ST, as I pick and choose when I go. I have Sky so will be watching the Pompey game at home with a beer and normal priced food.

Instead of berating the fans, can't this "marketing genius" devise some offer to entice fans to HP for the Pompey game rather than slag them off? The bloke is a cretin.

Sell said Chemical, But its not just Iddesleigh who doesnt understand not everyone is made of money especially down this part of the world. Value for money both in tickets and in food while playing entertaining/winning football will always bring fans through the gates.
Over pricing tickets aswell as food and playing dull and losing games wont its that simple.
Also, making fans suffer a group of young girls murdering AC/DC every home game in uniforms not suited for cheerleaders isnt going to help matters either.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Wasn't jones on about improving the 'match day experience'  for ages. Except for a few things like voting on pasties and the family area which I doubt they put any money towards themselves it has got worse. The mayflower terrace has shut and it looks terrible, there's not enough catering staff and they've shut the far post. Once xmas is out of the way then if we're still up there he might see more punters. But the club shodnt really demand anything like that when either we have been shit on the pitch and poor off the pitch.

Talking of pasties, I won't be buying any more from there. They used to be decent, the ones I've had the last two home games were fuckin awful. They tasted like they'd been baked about 3 days previous and then reheated to nuclear temperatures. Disgusting.

If Jones had simply come out and said 'we're disappointed that more fans aren't showing support and we need that', I'd have more respect for him.

Instead, he tries to justify it on the grounds of improving 'product'. Not only is that a hateful term to use for a football team (and one favoured by people I suspect have never as much as kicked a football) but he also undoes himself in the process. Yes, Peter, Argyle are doing relatively well in the last ten games and we're all glad about it but does that really equal sustainable improvement? Not yet, no. As a marketing specialist, he would know it takes far longer to build a successful brand and with it, customer loyalty. So, if he's judging it by that yardstick, he needs to wait - and get proactive in building that image of success and inclusion for PAFC.

As for the wider question, we all bloody well know that if Argyle are going well in the New Year, the crowds will build. Come March/April, if we're sniffing automatic promotion 10K+ will be the norm. And the powers that be should be thankful if that's the case. After the shit that has been served up in recent years, it'll be more than is deserved.

But it'll take more than a 6 game unbeaten run, as welcome as that is.

For me I had Argyle written off for this season when the club sold our captain Hourihane, Shez has pulled off a real coup by getting B. Reid in as a stop gap and has to be applauded for turning it round. Whether the results continue if and when the loanees return to their parent clubs will be another matter. As fans we have endured years of shite football together with rising prices that are in no way matched by wages in the area, add to that a fan base that has been happily divided by the non developer and the club is now reaping what it sows.

Iggy wrote:

For me I had Argyle written off for this season when the club sold our captain Hourihane, Shez has pulled off a real coup by getting B. Reid in as a stop gap and has to be applauded for turning it round. Whether the results continue if and when the loanees return to their parent clubs will be another matter. As fans we have endured years of shite football together with rising prices that are in no way matched by wages in the area, add to that a fan base that has been happily divided by the non developer and the club is now reaping what it sows.

dont forget divied also by a forum owner and a in name only president.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

If Jones had simply come out and said 'we're disappointed that more fans aren't showing support and we need that', I'd have more respect for him.

Instead, he tries to justify it on the grounds of improving 'product'. Not only is that a hateful term to use for a football team (and one favoured by people I suspect have never as much as kicked a football) but he also undoes himself in the process. Yes, Peter, Argyle are doing relatively well in the last ten games and we're all glad about it but does that really equal sustainable improvement? Not yet, no. As a marketing specialist, he would know it takes far longer to build a successful brand and with it, customer loyalty. So, if he's judging it by that yardstick, he needs to wait - and get proactive in building that image of success and inclusion for PAFC.

As for the wider question, we all bloody well know that if Argyle are going well in the New Year, the crowds will build. Come March/April, if we're sniffing automatic promotion 10K+ will be the norm. And the powers that be should be thankful if that's the case. After the shit that has been served up in recent years, it'll be more than is deserved.

But it'll take more than a 6 game unbeaten run, as welcome as that is.

Absolutely.

If you've bought a season ticket and watched every home game over the past 6 seasons you've spent close to £2,500 in ticket prices alone and watched 43 home victories from 138 games.

It's going to take more than 6 unbeaten games to repair that damage. Frankly it's a miracle anyone's turning up.

Innocent has shown himself in the past to be a more than fair minded poster. PJ should read his post above very carefully.

Personally speaking, amongst all the other shit floating about, the breaking of the 20 quid POTD barrier did it for me. Being able to watch top quality southern hemisphere rugby in a fantastic stadium for less than a tenner put it all into perspective. I'm sure I'll be back at HP sometime...but only when there's a bloody sight more glory to be hunted.

Brent has achieved absolutely nothing of commercial success through any of his businesses, indeed many have collapsed - Jones has achieved absolutely nothing of any commercial success through any of his supposed marketing skills or initiatives. With such blatent frauds on the board is it any wonder that the club lurches from one disappointment to the next - punctuated with an occasional run of decent results. The men responsible for running the club have no history of commercial success - we really shouldn't be surprised that the club itself is not commercially successful or even sustainable whilst they're around.

do you remember the days when Peter Jones was seen as an shining light and a possible replacement for a staplewallet?

oh have times changed unlike the forum clock