Argyle Finances

Angry wrote:

The longer people with positions and standings within the fanbase keep quite over Brents dealings and impact on the club the quicker PAFC dies.

Stand up now and fight

I agree.

How much longer will the blind be led by the blind.....

Administration round two looms i fear...

I see the AFT is seeking professional help in reading the accounts

Lets have some ideas then? What can fans do about it? Don't think I'll get many workable answers. We'll see.

All the Presidents Men wrote:

alannotivvy wrote:

Loving the avatar Mr Trickle. Can u send me a link. I feel a piggy pic coming on

Me too, it always make me think " IF THE DEVIL COULD HIS NET NOW.. " in my head!, every fecking time.

Lol. That pic was the subject of a 'caption competition' some time ago on these boards. I think my effort went something like...

Ridsdale: "Here's the menu Ian, what would you like?"

Webb: "I'll order for him Peter, he struggles a bit with big words, he'll have the alphabeti spaghetti but FFS take out the A's T's and D's!"

great stuff

Mwahahahahahahahahahaha

nice avatar Seadog

Beautiful!

So, correct me if I’m wrong:

The debt…the overall amount of money that we owe at the end point of these accounts. That as of December 2013 was around £6 million. Simple enough, then. Most of that 6m was owed after 2014, a small amount of it within 2014.

The deficit….is the amount of money that we have to borrow from external funders (mainly Brent) to make up the gap in our ability to self-fund. The 2012 deficit was approx £2.4mil. The 2013 deficit is £1.5 mil. That means then that the overall deficit since Brent took over is actually in the region of £3.89 million. So naturally the aggregate deficit increased because it would take a profit (i.e. a surplus) to decrease the overall deficit. And we knew a surplus was not on the cards thus the fact that the aggregate deficit has increased is nothing we weren’t expecting. We weren't expecting a profit, therefore any loss increases the defecit in the way that Postey said in the original post. However, the deficit per year decreased from £2.4m to £1.5m which I guess is a bit of a good thing….or at least, not such a bad thing.

And to make it even more complicated…we didn’t lose £1.5 mil in cash, we lost more like £1mil in cash but the deprecation of about £500k’s worth of assets that we had and now seemingly don't (which assets are those btw?) made the overall deficit (loss) for the year 2013 as £1.5 million. The assets to the tune of £500k that we lost in 2013 are unspecified due to the club's release of the abbreviated accounts rather than the full ones. They could be tangible assets (tables, chairs, stock, coaches, stuff you can touch and feel) or intangible assets (transfer value of players, goodwill etc, stuff that is theoretical). The only high value player who we sold in 2013 was Christian Walton. So did we shift any tangibles? £500k deprecation is interesting and I can't quite see where it came from although I claim not to be an expert.

The AFT will look to have an on the record chat with the club sooner rather than later to see what can be said openly about these accounts and the club's general financial situation.

im confused.
what does the club owe/ not owe ?

alannotivvy wrote:

nice avatar Seadog

I reckon it should go in the next ATD ad for the AFT fanzine.

more to come ricks, stay patient

Rickler wrote:

alannotivvy wrote:

nice avatar Seadog

I reckon it should go in the next ATD ad for the AFT fanzine.

Good idea Rickler.

I'm guessing here...

The assets are:

Furniture, paperclips etc
Players
Stadium

Forget the first.

The players will have some sort of asset value depending on length of contract remaining. If the average player contract has dropped (and it probably varies quite widely from time to time) then so has their collective asset value.

The lease on the stadium must be worth something but whatever it is worth is dependant on how long it has to go. So year on year this value will reduce.

Put those together for £500k? Maybe. Like I said I'm guessing.

The worrying thing for me is the other £1m. It can't have gone in transfer fees or wages. During the period the accounts cover we weren't even paying rent and rates. So where the hell has it gone?

pork scratchings ???

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I'm guessing here...

The assets are:

Furniture, paperclips etc
Players
Stadium

and ATD members!!!! Worth ?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I'm guessing here...


The lease on the stadium must be worth something but whatever it is worth is dependant on how long it has to go. So year on year this value will reduce.

As you have to pay it, wouldn't that be a liability? Besides... Who are you going to sublease to?

bankrupt

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I'm guessing here...

The assets are:

Furniture, paperclips etc
Players
Stadium

Forget the first.

The players will have some sort of asset value depending on length of contract remaining. If the average player contract has dropped (and it probably varies quite widely from time to time) then so has their collective asset value.

The lease on the stadium must be worth something but whatever it is worth is dependant on how long it has to go. So year on year this value will reduce.

Put those together for £500k? Maybe. Like I said I'm guessing.

The worrying thing for me is the other £1m. It can't have gone in transfer fees or wages. During the period the accounts cover we weren't even paying rent and rates. So where the hell has it gone?

There's only one man who will know the truth. He won't be telling his real friends either. When this all goes trotters up, history will condemn those who acted as jamboys, in return for privileges at the Theatre of Schemes.

alannotivvy wrote:

im confused.
what does the club owe/ not owe ?

All sorts.

Still some football creditor/Community Trust money.

A lot of money to Brent and Wrathall who've loaned us our deficit to stop us from going under these past three years.

And an amount to the GTs who accelerated the staff debt. But not a huge amount in the grand scheme of it.

That's just what we know about.

GreenSam wrote:

alannotivvy wrote:

im confused.
what does the club owe/ not owe ?

All sorts.

Still some football creditor/Community Trust money.

A lot of money to Brent and Wrathall who've loaned us our deficit to stop us from going under these past three years.

And an amount to the GTs who accelerated the staff debt. But not a huge amount in the grand scheme of it.

That's just what we know about.

What about that money that was owed to the secured creditors,which according to Postey consisted of Gardiner 400k,Lombard 2.1m,Mastpoint 2.1m and the supporters trust 330k.According to LG on PASOTI the other day,quite a lot of the supporters loan has been paid back but interestingly the total sum of the secured creditors tallies pretty much with the creditors due after 1 year figure in the accounts published today.Yet i seem to remember reading that Lombard had been paid a certain sum and were pursuing the directors who had guaranteed the original mortgage for the rest of it.Anyone got any clarification on this?

Rickler wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I'm guessing here...


The lease on the stadium must be worth something but whatever it is worth is dependant on how long it has to go. So year on year this value will reduce.

As you have to pay it, wouldn't that be a liability?   Besides... Who are you going to sublease to?

Might it be both a liability and an asset?

I'm just thinking of when a flat, which is usually a leasehold, is sold. If the lease has 99 years to run it's pretty much the same value as buying the freehold but if it only has a year then it's more or less worthless.

Like I said I was guessing.

Greenskin wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

alannotivvy wrote:

im confused.
what does the club owe/ not owe ?

All sorts.

Still some football creditor/Community Trust money.

A lot of money to Brent and Wrathall who've loaned us our deficit to stop us from going under these past three years.

And an amount to the GTs who accelerated the staff debt. But not a huge amount in the grand scheme of it.

That's just what we know about.

What about that money that was owed to the secured creditors,which according to Postey consisted of Gardiner 400k,Lombard 2.1m,Mastpoint 2.1m and the supporters trust 330k.According to LG on PASOTI the other day,quite a lot of the supporters loan has been paid back but interestingly the total sum of the secured creditors tallies pretty much with the creditors due after 1 year figure in the accounts published today.Yet i seem to remember reading that Lombard had been paid a certain sum and were pursuing the directors who had guaranteed the original mortgage for the rest of it.Anyone got any clarification on this?

Lombard were bought off (they settled for £600k I think and tried to pursue the old directors for the losses). Gardner and Mastpoint waived their dues. It's all there in the admin docs somewhere.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

alannotivvy wrote:

im confused.
what does the club owe/ not owe ?

All sorts.

Still some football creditor/Community Trust money.

A lot of money to Brent and Wrathall who've loaned us our deficit to stop us from going under these past three years.

And an amount to the GTs who accelerated the staff debt. But not a huge amount in the grand scheme of it.

That's just what we know about.

What about that money that was owed to the secured creditors,which according to Postey consisted of Gardiner 400k,Lombard 2.1m,Mastpoint 2.1m and the supporters trust 330k.According to LG on PASOTI the other day,quite a lot of the supporters loan has been paid back but interestingly the total sum of the secured creditors tallies pretty much with the creditors due after 1 year figure in the accounts published today.Yet i seem to remember reading that Lombard had been paid a certain sum and were pursuing the directors who had guaranteed the original mortgage for the rest of it.Anyone got any clarification on this?

Lombard were bought off (they settled for £600k I think and tried to pursue the old directors for the losses). Gardner and Mastpoint waived their dues. It's all there in the admin docs somewhere.

Cheers.

As far as I know,

Lombard are all done.

Community Trust were getting paid back in tandem with the football creditors. But presumably they aren't writing off a quarter of it like the FC are (?)

Mastpoint and Sir Roy- it was widely reported that we've got arrangements with them in which we paid a bit as soon as we came out of admin (which Brent either paid for or at least loaned) and the rest is a deal dependant on if we get promotions and until we get the promotions they won't get the money.