A radical plan for Argyle / the Council

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

that all sounds far too sensible

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

With all that happening the pitch would be in use 24/7.....and would soon look like the local recs mud patch.....and ha hum.....who would care for it, seeing it ain't paid for.....would we have the nerve to get them to re-lay it.....I think we'll have to think about that again....touch of 'fiddler on the roof' syndrome there I think.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

sfd i feel like a stuck record here but at the risk of repeating myself again its not going to be as easy as your trying to make it sound, albion fans dont want to move and it will cost money not make it.

zyph wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

With all that happening the pitch would be in use 24/7.....and would soon look like the local recs mud patch.....and ha hum.....who would care for it, seeing it ain't paid for.....would we have the nerve to get them to re-lay it.....I think we'll have to think about that again....touch of 'fiddler on the roof' syndrome there I think.

Who would care for it? Don't we have a groundsman for that?

Angry wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

sfd i feel like a stuck record here but at the risk of repeating myself again its not going to be as easy as your trying to make it sound, albion fans dot want to move and it will cost money not make it.

You're right.

Let's not try.

Let's not even bat the idea around a bit.

Let's stick with the mediocre records both teams have endured for decades and do nothing at all to try to change it for the betterment of both.

Obviously groundsharing has been successful at Swansea, and Reading (which didn't even have a rugby team), but it is completely impossible that it could ever work in Plymouth because of the small handful of reluctant Albion fans that actually turn up to watch their team.

If they are so utterly committed to long-term and enduring mediocrity why should we toss a radical bit of thinking around, like the thread title suggests, helpful and well-intended or not?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

sfd i feel like a stuck record here but at the risk of repeating myself again its not going to be as easy as your trying to make it sound, albion fans dot want to move and it will cost money not make it.

You're right.

Let's not try.

Let's not even bat the idea around a bit.

Let's stick with the mediocre records both teams have endured for decades and do nothing at all to try to change it for the betterment of both.

Obviously groundsharing has been successful at Swansea, and Reading (which didn't even have a rugby team), but it is completely impossible that it could ever work in Plymouth because of the small handful of reluctant Albion fans that actually turn up to watch their team.

If they are so utterly committed to long-term and enduring mediocrity why should we toss a radical bit of thinking around, like the thread title suggests, helpful and well-intended or not?

its not the fact football/rugby cant share a ground as it has worked well for some not all but some but there has to be a genuine desire on both sides to do it aswell as buisness savvy for both for it to work.

Would you rather see this happen just because or for the right reasosn where there is a positive for both clubs.

It wouldn't just be positive for both clubs; it would be positive for the city and the council too.

Especially if it is going to finance the new grandstand because in some quarters it will be unpopular. If both of the city's most significant teams used it it would add to the justification for building it and at a stroke Albion would be transformed from a club which is patronisingly looked down on from the giddy heights currently occupied by the Exeter Chiefs into a team that genuinely rivals them - and actually has a better, bigger ground.

Of course if Albion want to continue losing regularly to and not give the giants of Leicester, Gloucester, Wasps, Northampton and Bath a run for their money then they can look this gift horse in the mouth, shirk off imminent financial disaster as an irrelevanceand toddle along in their own sweet insular bubble of under-achievement (much like Argyle does).

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It wouldn't just be positive for both clubs; it would be positive for the city and the council too.

Especially if it is going to finance the new grandstand because in some quarters it will be unpopular. If both of the city's most significant teams used it it would add to the justification for building it and at a stroke Albion would be transformed from a club which is patronisingly looked down on from the giddy heights currently occupied by the Exeter Chiefs into a team that genuinely rivals them - and actually has a better, bigger ground.

Of course if Albion want to continue losing regularly to <insert name of divisional rival here> and not give the giants of Leicester, Gloucester, Wasps, Northampton and Bath a run for their money then they can look this gift horse in the mouth, shirk off imminent financial disaster as an irrelevanceand toddle along in their own sweet insular bubble of under-achievement (much like Argyle does).

Tringy likes this

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It wouldn't just be positive for both clubs; it would be positive for the city and the council too.

Especially if it is going to finance the new grandstand because in some quarters it will be unpopular. If both of the city's most significant teams used it it would add to the justification for building it and at a stroke Albion would be transformed from a club which is patronisingly looked down on from the giddy heights currently occupied by the Exeter Chiefs into a team that genuinely rivals them - and actually has a better, bigger ground.

Of course if Albion want to continue losing regularly to and not give the giants of Leicester, Gloucester, Wasps, Northampton and Bath a run for their money then they can look this gift horse in the mouth, shirk off imminent financial disaster as an irrelevanceand toddle along in their own sweet insular bubble of under-achievement (much like Argyle does).

The idea may sound good on paper but the reality is more flawed it will take a great deal of negotiations and assurances for Albion that they will benefit from leaving their own stadium and corporate function tents/facilities that make money hand over fist for them to go to home park where there isnt even a gurantee of any facilities to date for them to carry on. Argyle too have to be assured they will make money eventually if Albion move in as atm they will be a financial burden.

As i say there is more too it.

I can't see why Albion's hospitality provision needs can be much different to Argyle's and there is going to a 600 cover facility built into Brent's stand, isn't there? Do Albion entertain more than 600 people on a matchday? Out of an attendance of 1500 I can't see that they do but they might. I've never been to see them play at Brickfields so I don't know.

And then there's the unsold retail units. More potential for hospitality and bars. More room to expand into if those 600 covers are insufficient.

Nor can I see why they would lose any of their punters at such shindigs.

Besides I thought Albion were up the creek financially... Isn't the real question can they afford not to move in with Argyle and realise some value in Brickfields along the way? I would have thought not but I know little about them other than bits of gossip that come my way.

It all depends on what they want to be, really. To use a Plymouth analogy does Albion want to be an Argyle or a Parkway? In terms of their own sport do they want to compete with Exeter or not? If I was them I would be sickened at the large number of Plymothians who regularly trek up the A38 to see the Chiefs play and want to do something about it.

If there's one thing that illustrates how badly wrong Albion are getting it and how urgent the need for them to change is then that is it.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I can't see why Albion's hospitality provision needs can be much different to Argyle's and there is going to a 600 cover facility built into Brent's stand, isn't there? Do Albion entertain more than 600 people on a matchday? Out of an attendance of 1500 I can't see that they do but they might. I've never been to see them play at Brickfields so I don't know.

And then there's the unsold retail units. More potential for hospitality and bars. More room to expand into if those 600 covers are insufficient.

Nor can I see why they would lose any of their punters at such shindigs.

Besides I thought Albion were up the creek financially... Isn't the real question can they afford not to move in with Argyle and realise some value in Brickfields along the way? I would have thought not but I know little about them other than bits of gossip that come my way.

It all depends on what they want to be, really. To use a Plymouth analogy does Albion want to be an Argyle or a Parkway? In terms of their own sport do they want to compete with Exeter or not? If I was them I would be sickened at the large number of Plymothians who regularly trek up the A38 to see the Chiefs play and want to do something about it.

If there's one thing that illustrates how badly wrong Albion are getting it and how urgent the need for them to change is then that is it.

And you think that moving into Home Park will suddenly mean those who go up the road to watch the Cheifs will cease? have a word with yourself SFD lol. If Southampton was nearer to Plymouth there would be argyle fans go up there to watch elite football. Albion arent fending of creditors that much is true and part of that is down to shareholders and there 365 used hospitality facilities that cator to a wide range of clients and not just rugby folk and on match days. While they arent the richest nor can afford to match the ex prem teams in the leagues budgets for players they do have a competitive budget that does allow them to bring in good players.

I sense you dont know too much about rugby as if you did you would understand that moving to home park will not do anything for Albion or us in terms of how that club will grow. Its a pipe dream sadly.

Why would they need to stop their 365 days per year hospitality ventures if they moved to Home Park?

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And I'm certainly no expert but it would appear they could do with a little strengthening to me.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The pitch is too small for cricket but why not add Devonport Services, a hockey team, rugby league and American football. (I can't think of anything else but if there is get them in too.)

Lots of teams, one pitch, one gym, one set of offices, one set of hospitality buildings... In fact one infra-structure, one rent... Lots of sources paying it. Build the ice arena next door and get an ice hockey team and the Raiders in there, too.

Everybody saves money. Everybody gets top notch facilities. None of them need worry about being bought out by property speculators or asset-stripped.

There was actually a cricket match played at HP in the early 1980's-at the time there was a bit of a national craze for playing cricket on football grounds,i think there were games played at Bristol City and Chelsea among others.Somerset v Gloucester at HP,Joel Garner and Botham were playing and Zaheer Abbas crashed a humungous six over the Devonport end.It was a bit of a farce though,the grounds were indeed too small and the experiment short lived.

So Albion dont have a ground fit for the Premiership, European Rugby or the knockout stages, nor do they have a budget to make them competitive in the Championship, but a move to HP wouldn't work because they wouldn't get the income from the hospitality facilities that barely keep the wolf from the door at the moment?

Surely the extra bums on seats and the use of the corporate facilities in the new grandstand would bring in more then they have now?

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So Albion dont have a ground fit for the Premiership, European Rugby or the knockout stages, nor do they have a budget to make them competitive in the Championship, but a move to HP wouldn't work because they wouldn't get the income from the hospitality facilities that barely keep the wolf from the door at the moment?

Surely the extra bums on seats and the use of the corporate facilities in the new grandstand would bring in more then they have now?

we have a ground fit for all the above but have we ever made it there in the 12 years since we had the new 3 stands built as a result? do fans flock there week after week regardless of the clubs fortunes and sell the place out as a result? have we made any money from home park functions over the years that we can profit from and one Albion can continue romancing there clients at?

so why will Albion realise potential that we havent using home park if they moved in?

you know aswell as i do that when argyle play shite and not winning the crowd numbers drop resulting in operating losses each game as a result and trust me albion are not playing like the all blacks at the moment so they could move into twickenham and hardly anyone bar the core fans will go watch them at the moment.
So no, i don't agree with this more will come if they move in line im afraid i see your point but its only ever going to work with them in the premiership. Worth mentioning unlike football Albion play in a landlock league more or less which is virtually impossible to get out off and thats with abramovich like investment due to RFU Politics and treating the premiership like an exclusive club.

Remember bigger the stadium the bigger the running costs and if Albion can only gain gates of 1-2k it will be an expensive tenancy just to have a small grandstand built on the back of them being here too and it will be costly to both clubs when if done right wont be the case.

If Albion ever where in danger of moving on up under owners with big money and they dont fancy staying at brickfields (which again can be made to meet premiership rugby aswell as european) then sure the idea of them moving in and being a 50/50 partner will work and ill be more for it and aslong as Albion made more money being there including its hospitality revenue it could be a very profitable club as would Argyle if they follow suit

BUT that is a pipe dream.

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saw this and thought it might be of some interest.