Happy St George's Day!

I'm not sure what who would have the biggest complex, being a Little Englander or the person that accuses somebody of it.

Pride can be a bad thing or it can be a good thing depending on the person that is armed with it. I am proud to battle against intolerance, I am proud of my kids and yes, I am proud of my country. I am also ashamed of my country for a few things but this thread isn't about that.

Being proud is good providing you have the ability to understand its boundaries.

Ethnocentricity might be the word you're both looking for.
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English pomp. Flag waving at the Queen (pride in servility). Being proud that 'we' fought in wars (pride in following orders of a collective elite). Being an island nation (pride in geology). God's own country (pride in being told to kneel and pray - God save the Queen). We are, by birth, better than every other nation and people.... and we should recognise that by hanging a flag (made in China) out the window as we have a day off work and get pissed up.

Beautiful England, a green and pleasant land!

You are a one, hairy!

But when you put it like that .....  

But, at the risk of putting words into GOB's mouth - he's big enough & ugly enough to speak for himself (I know - I've seen the pictures), - his point is that there are some who wish to "reclaim the flag" from the people who have those blinkered attitudes that you list. The claim has been that it is possible to be both 'proud', inclusive & rooted in 21st century.

As a side issue, interesting to see UKIP's latest 'embarassment' before he was suspended from the party, Andre Lampitt, described himself as "Born British in Rhodesia....". Discuss.

Ask any Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman and they will tell you they are proud to be from their country of birth, it's only some of us that tries to pretend that you should be ashamed. hairy is at it again there. Pride in servility FFS! So there is no pride in servility in Ireland? Do me a favour, it's just simple pride like being proud of living in Plymouth. It's not a statement saying that you think that Plymouth is the best place to live or better than say Macclesfield but simple pride in an identity, having something in common maybe? The one that says it for me is identity, as for Hairys' list, I am anti monarchy (I would keep them I would just let them fend for themselves) I am atheist and I am a pacifist (unless someone spills my pint or eyes up my burd) yet I am proud to be English. Am I stupid or something? Where is my sense of shame FFS?

knecht wrote:

As a side issue, interesting to see UKIP's latest 'embarassment' before he was suspended from the party, Andre Lampitt, described himself as "Born British in Rhodesia....". Discuss.

I did see that Knecht and had a chuckle.
Show me a Rhodesian and nine times out of ten you will be showing me a racist female reproductive organ. Rhodesia has been sent to the annals of history and anybody describing themselves as Rhodesian hankers back to the colonial days. Rhodes made himself the richest man in the world by plundering the diamonds, gold and ivory of Africa. As for British born in Rhodesia? I have Cornish grandparents but live in Devon, am I Cornish Or Devonian? I like to hover like I live, on the border.

I'd keep the Royal institutions but I'd open up all the jobs to applications & interviews. I'd then pay them the average wage with bonuses for unsocial hours & having to shake hands with some pretty odious politicians.

Speaking of "racist female reproductive organs" ... I once worked with a teenage white girl who claimed she wasn't racist as she only had sex with black guys.   

Right, I'm off - work to do, people to see.

Pay them feck all let them live off their vast landholdings. If you have income of over £38000 for a family then will get no benifits and rightly so, unless you are a farmer or landowner of course.

hairy j wrote:

Ethnocentricity might be the word you're both looking for.
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English pomp. Flag waving at the Queen (pride in servility). Being proud that 'we' fought in wars (pride in following orders of a collective elite). Being an island nation (pride in geology). God's own country (pride in being told to kneel and pray - God save the Queen). We are, by birth, better than every other nation and people.... and we should recognise that by hanging a flag (made in China) out the window as we have a day off work and get pissed up.

Beautiful England, a green and pleasant land!

I think that would be how you would hope my views could be be defined Hairy, but you are wrong. I will address that though.

It's not about judging other cultures, it's about enjoying and sharing other cultures. English pomp and ceremony is superb and is probably the greatest party in the world judging by TV figures for such events. How can that possibly be a bad thing and how can it possibly be a bad thing to feel a little proud of that?

Why do people wish to condemn the Irish for their celebrations, or is this just an anti English thing? Of course, I am assuming that you are also tainting the Irish with the same words because there is little difference between a decent Englishman and a decent Irishman who share a little pride in their country, is there?

BTW I am ugly, that cannot be denied   

I'm a FOOKIN stunner.

I find it weird to be proud of where you're from - it's almost innate tribalism. I wasn't calling any one ethnocentric or racist but that's what 'little Englanders' are.
Some people are proud they own an iPhone or drive an Audi so it's all relative.

Whatshisface said it best, I am a citizen of the World. Was it Aristotle or Plato?

St Patrick's day is aboht getting hammered drunk and wearing a silly hat and singing traditional songs - sound familiar?

Do you have pride in yourself then Hairy?

Only on a Tuesday. I'm not particularly proud of myself. I'm not sure what that means. I'm a decent enough chap - volunteer to help people when I can, would help a friend in need, pay my taxes, try and be a good neighbour, try and bring my kids up the right way, work hard.
Pride is an odd thing. People used to take pride in our sense of justice but then we got the Stephen Lawrence case, Hillsborough and on and on. Pride usually takes a fall.

I'm all for a bank holiday St George's Day - it'd make people a bit happy but it could be a community thing rather than sinking ten pints down the Barbican and wearing a flag over your shoulder.

[quote="hairy j"] Stephen Lawrence case,

Keith blakelock ?

[quote="downthetrack"]

hairy j wrote:

Stephen Lawrence case,

Keith blakelock ?

I was using the Stephen Lawrence example as a case of police corruption - and there's been a massive amount of damage done to our shared view (as English people) that the law in the country is the best in the World. I have no idea what the murder of a police officer has to do with that point - I have an inkling why you would bring it up though.

Anyway, today is hug a plumber day. Go hug a plumber.

hairy j wrote:

downthetrack wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Stephen Lawrence case,

Keith blakelock ?

I was using the Stephen Lawrence example as a case of police corruption - and there's been a massive amount of damage done to our shared view (as English people) that the law in the country is the best in the World. I have no idea what the murder of a police officer has to do with that point - I have an inkling why you would bring it up though.

Anyway, today is hug a plumber day. Go hug a plumber.

Lets just say not much justice for all families in all 3 cases

Must not engage.