Happy St George's Day!

Happy Palestinian born Roman soldier day to all the EDL/BNP/UKIP folk.

I just knew that an antagonist would pop up to try and pollute what should be a decent tradition.

Just because the EDL have hijacked our national flag it does not make me ashamed to be English, I'm proud to be English. I don't feel the need to celebrate St. Patrick's day, which is about as credible as mothers day for anybody who is not Irish, independance day is for the Yanks so as an Englishman I celebrate St George's day, why shouldn't I?

On the button Iggy!

Geddon Gobbers! Happy St. George's Day! I'm off down the local but one to have a cracking pint of Proper Job, not an English pint though.   

would like to add feck off Scotland to this thread

hairy j wrote:

Happy Palestinian born Roman soldier day to all the EDL/BNP/UKIP folk.

St Patrick wasn't Irish, Do you object to Irish people celebrating St Patricks Day ?

Or as you revel in going to extremes in the hope of provoking maybe you'd phrase it like this, Happy probably English born St Patricks Day to all Irish republican / I.R.A folk.

If only he had been English.....or even spoke english would of been a start.

St George was already a saint elsewhere before we grabbed him.

If sticking up for St George & the Union flag takes it back from the racists and the Little-Englanders I'm all for it.

That's what it needs Knecht, unfortunately it will mean a braver face to stand up to those that would like to slur all that wish to celebrate the day for how it is intended and by using the BNP and EDL tags. The Irish wouldn't allow their 'Day' to be tainted, why should we, the English?

And I don't think the Little Englanders, whoever they are, the BNP or the EDL ever took the flag, the English just gave it up and we should be taking it back!

For far to long we have accepted that it is somehow shameful to be English and to celebrate it. There's nothing wrong with being English and there's nothing wrong with being proud of it, no matter what your colour, religion or sexuality.

knecht wrote:

If sticking up for St George & the Union flag takes it back from the racists and the Little-Englanders I'm all for it.

Then the next problem will be getting our country back from the EU bureaucrats and making our own decisions.

GOB wrote:

I just knew that an antagonist would pop up to try and pollute what should be a decent tradition.

It was the only way any one was going to reply to your thread GOB. It had about 80 views and no replies. I felt a bit sorry for you to be honest as you've had your George Cross underpants on all day.

and there was me thinking that you were looking for your fix, Hairy.

Jethro wrote:

would like to add feck off Scotland to this thread

Best of luck to them, whatever they decide.

If Devon/Cornwall can grab further further autonomy then we certainly should as well.

zyph wrote:

If only he had been English.....or even spoke english would of been a start.

St George was already a saint elsewhere before we grabbed him.

We didn't grab him; he was imposed upon us.

Chapter and verse here:

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St Edmund ought to be England's saint.

Jethro wrote:

would like to add feck off Scotland to this thread

We'll be worse off economically without Scotland. Per head, they contribute something like 108% of what they cost the country - Wales is where the least contribution comes from.

Just for debate - we stole the George Cross flag design from northern Italy. That red cross flag you see hanging out of pebble dashed houses in areas like Kings Tamerton where barrel bellied skinhead guys in their late forties live and drink Fosters. This flag
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That flag that originated in Germany and appears on the club crest of AC Milan.
We're proper European over here in Blighty.

Scotland have FOOKIN had it off from the European money for years. They are a drain on the economy, like the rest of the country they live indirectly off the London banking and stock exchange scene.

hairy j wrote:

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Total SNP propaganda.....only ever been that far north once.....Sterling University on a OU course....nice area....but to live there...no thanks.

Alex Salmond is on a personal crusade and could undermine Scotlands future and damage the UK economy...the majority of Scots are confused regarding independance....if a yes vote keeps them in the UK, will Salmond do the decent thing and resign.

I agree with lots of what you say, GOB. But I've never got the concept of being "proud" of a nation. Without doubt England has lots of which to be "proud" - equally there is lots of which we should be thoroughly ashamed. That's like all nations the world over. Should I also be "proud" of India's positive contributions to the world?

And who is the "we" that should be taking it all back? I've posted this before but here goes ..... my father was a Scot (I have his maternal line going back to 17th Century western Isles). His paternal grandfather was German - or to be more precise, Prussian, as it was then not Germany, I believe. Would he have been a "we" to take the flag back? Am I? My mother's Cornish roots similarly go back in Cornwall to at least the early 17th Century and the less said about the Cornish the better (joke), though I read this morning how we are now given official recognition. My children's mother is half Austrian, their grandmother Austrian and their great-grand-parents were Bavarian & Austrian. One of their great-great-grandparents was Hungarian. Who am I or my children to take anything back? And I suspect that applies to many people.

I suppose that rallying behind the flag would help contribute to a more united nation. "I'm English because I was born here" sounds good to me. I've been interested to read of Chaz Singh's St George's Day efforts - that's good. But my fear is that runs the risk of providing a rallying point for xenophobic groups who campaign against the foreign hordes over-running 'our' country.

As for the next problem being "getting our country back from the EU bureaucrats and making our own decisions", Zyph.... that sounds fine. I'm all in favour of limiting the power of bureaucrats but simply sticking that onto the EU makes no sense to me.

(Also the last time I had a conversation with someone who was bemoaning bureaucrats it was simply because they were stopping him laying a road down & driving his 4x4 through a beautiful wood with lots of protected species in an area of international importance. Being against bureaucracy seemed to simply be complaining about being stopped doing whatever he wanted to do.)

I agree with much of that, Knecht.

What is "British" or "Engish" anyway?

Human life did not evolve here on this island. It hasn't always even been an island! The border between England and Scotland once marched backwards and forwards with astonishing regularity so where should it really be? Hadrian's wall? That was just an arbitrary placement made by what would now be an Italian! Why there? Why anywhere?

Essentially we are all either immigrants or descended from them. I know this to be true even though I have no knowledge that anybody in my family tree comes from anywhere more exotic than Sparkwell! I have a nephew who was born in Tripoli - does that make him Libyan?

Our royal family is German, our Queen is married to a Greek, we drink wine from dozens of countries, our electricity and water distribution is mostly French owned, I drive a French car, we sleep in pyjamas, live in bungalows, our favourite national dish is curry (last 3 all Indian), our geo-political strategy is American, our economy reliant on European(especially) trade, our iconic football teams bearely feature an English player and are owned by Americans, Arabs, Russians...

We are completely unable to stand alone or revert to a time when we did because it has never existed. Well, not since the Middle Ages but before that we were populated by Angles, Saxons, Celts, Picts, Vikings so even then it's questionable.

All that said I am glad I am British: our climate doesn't usually kill us; we don't get killed by our own government very often; we have a real sense of justice and fairness and an abhorrence of corruption; we live in a democracy (of a sort anyway); we have a good standard of education; the NHS; the BBC;  beautiful natural geography; real ale; pasties; Plymouth Argyle... And it is these things, the very things that make me glad to be British, which encourage immigrants to come to this country not benefits or anything of the sort. Immigrants come to this country for exactly the same reasons they do not go to North Korea.

All nations are mongrel nations but Britain, as a result of Empire perhaps, is more mongrel than most. It's just lines on a map and a football team to support in World Cups, innit, other than that we are now all Europeans (whether we like it or not) and citizens of the world.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I agree with much of that, Knecht.

What is "British" or "Engish" anyway?

Human life did not evolve here on this island. It hasn't always even been an island! The border between England and Scotland once marched backwards and forwards with astonishing regularity so where should it really be? Hadrian's wall? That was just an arbitrary placement made by what would now be an Italian! Why there? Why anywhere?

Essentially we are all either immigrants or descended from them. I know this to be true even though I have no knowledge that anybody in my family tree comes from anywhere more exotic than Sparkwell! I have a nephew who was born in Tripoli - does that make him Libyan?

Our royal family is German, our Queen is married to a Greek, we drink wine from dozens of countries, our electricity and water distribution is mostly French owned, I drive a French car, we sleep in pyjamas, live in bungalows, our favourite national dish is curry (last 3 all Indian), our geo-political strategy is American, our economy reliant on European(especially) trade...

We are completely unable to stand alone or revert to a time when we did because it has never existed. Well, not since the Middle Ages but before that we were populated by Angles, Saxons, Celts, Picts, Vikings so even then it's questionable.

All that said I am glad I am British: our climate doesn't usually kill us; we don't get killed by our own government very often; we have a real sense of justice and fairness and an abhorrence of corruption; we live in a democracy (of a sort anyway); we have a good standard of education; the NHS; the BBC;  beautiful natural geography; real ale; pasties; Plymouth Argyle... And it is these things, the very things that make me glad to be British, which encourage immigrants to come to this country not benefits or anything of the sort. Immigrants come to this country for exactly the same reasons they do not go to North Korea.

All nations are mongrel nations but Britain, as a result of Empire perhaps, is more mongrel than most. It's just lines on a map and a football team to support in World Cups, innit, other than that we are now all Europeans (whether we like it or not) and citizens of the world.

You know, word-for-word, I was going to say the exact thing.

I think you miss my point Knecht. The flag is just a symbol, when you take a symbol from an organisation such as the BNP, EDL etc. you take away its identity, by allowing such organisations to retain its symbol you allow them to thrive and to continue. Hence why the BNP, EDL etc. tagged themselves to the flag in the first place, they needed to identify themselves and they have been allowed to get away with it ever since because anyone that attempts to reclaim the symbol is immediately slurred as "little Englanders" or something equally belittling.

Why do you never hear the term "little Irelanders" or "little Scotlanders" or "little Welshers"?

I often wonder how many would like to fly the flag but are afraid to do so because of fear of accusation by a wannabee fascist....See what I done there?

I'm not racist, colour prejudice or homophobic etc, I'm just me, but isn't it sad that I feel the need to explain that just for supporting my country's flag.

'Little Englander' for me describes a particular mind-set where civilisation stops at Dover & the rest of the world is inferior in all sorts of ways. It says we should pull up the drawbridge & resist all invaders as we've always done.

I agree that the flag is a symbol & it should be reclaimed from the toe-rags you list. I didn't think I missed your point - in fact I agreed with it. I just developed & questioned some of it. I don't think you needed to explain your lack of racism, etc. I am aware of your views.

I said "I'm English because I was born here" sounds good to me. That allows anyone to fly the flag. Those comments weren't aimed at you.

I still don't get being 'proud' to be English (or any other nationality).