Richard Blight

Just querying some facts for a short piece on the Argyle takeover. Am I right in thinking...

The amount given up front to staff - 17.5%?

The amount BIL put in to the club in total was about half a million?

Brent took over the 0.77% deal to creditors as agreed by BIL?

Also...

Does anyone know how much the club and it's debts actually end up costing Brent?

Brent/Akkeron's "best and final offer" to ALL staff was 17% (or maybe 17.5, I'm not sure) up front, 7% per year for 5 years and then the remaining balance to be paid off. Can't recall the details of accelerated payments part of it but it was possibly 50% of 'unbudgeted income' during the five year period to go to the staff.

CW said on here that JB wanted to pay the non-playing staff a higher percentage up front but the PFA and the Football League wouldn't allow it.

Dunno the answers to the other questions. Soz.

I thought Heaney's BIL only paid £300k for the exclusivity (for a month or 2 that ended up being 4 or 5)?

Nick wrote:

CW said on here that JB wanted to pay the non-playing staff a higher percentage up front but the PFA and the Football League wouldn't allow it.

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that...

Rickler wrote:

Nick wrote:

CW said on here that JB wanted to pay the non-playing staff a higher percentage up front but the PFA and the Football League wouldn't allow it.

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that...

I was thinking the same thing. The players were almost certainly in a better position financially than the non-playing staff, so did Gordon Taylor get his own way over Brent, or was CW's statement inaccurate? It could be construed as CW painting a better picture of Brent than was actually the case. Or that Chris believes every word that comes out of Brent's mouth and then broadcasts it to the masses on PASOTI who lap it up and all start donating for the lifesize bronze statue of Brent soon to be unveiled.

If Brent was outmuscled by Gordon Taylor on this one, it says to me that Brent might not be the great businessman he is portrayed as, and that once again the PFA get what they want for extremely well paid footballers. Surely paying regular Joe's a higher percentage lump sum upfront than high earning players is fairer than them all being given the same percentage?

I think I remember reading that all staff had to be paid the same percentages regardless of need or means, under League rules.

Yeah, I've just looked back at the thread in question and it was stated that FL rules were the sticking point. Good old football!

greenjock - your avatar is deeply unsettling!

I would imagine it goes against all legal precedent to prefer one employee against another, and it all just sounds like the usual flak deflection onto the football authorities. Just blame everyone else but yourselves eh.

Let's be honest, it was a terrible deal fom Brent, no better than Heaney's. How Brent suddenly changed from paying all the employees everything they were owed up front to this disgrace in the short period of 4 months is quite beyond me.
Extra admin costs were supposedly negotiated downward and couldn't have cost more than an extra 400K over those few months. So why the huge disparity in what Brent was going to pay the employees in May as opposed to whathe actually paid in November ... it's a difference of millions. And he was going to have to pay those salaries anyway. It doesn't add up and all smells like one huge controlled exercise from start to finish. Their money has gone immediately to some of the secured creditors and x owners, there can be no other explanation. Cheers James, look after your own.

Nick wrote:

Yeah, I've just looked back at the thread in question and it was stated that FL rules were the sticking point. Good old football!

greenjock - your avatar is deeply unsettling!

I agree. He should have got hold of a couple bottles of Plymouth Gin before having the photoshoot.

penzancepirate wrote:

I would imagine it goes against all legal precedent to prefer one employee against another, and it all just sounds like the usual flak deflection onto the football authorities. Just blame everyone else but yourselves eh.

Let's be honest, it was a terrible deal fom Brent, no better than Heaney's. How Brent suddenly changed from paying all the employees everything they were owed up front to this disgrace in the short period of 4 months is quite beyond me.
Extra admin costs were supposedly negotiated downward and couldn't have cost more than an extra 400K over those few months. So why the huge disparity in what Brent was going to pay the employees in May as opposed to whathe actually paid in November ... it's a difference of millions. And he was going to have to pay those salaries anyway. It doesn't add up and all smells like one huge controlled exercise from start to finish. Their money has gone immediately to some of the secured creditors and x owners, there can be no other explanation. Cheers James, look after your own.

Really . No better than Heaneys ????

Brent followed through while Heaneys was all pie in the sky and was never going to happen . Heaney couldn't follow through on a wet fart .

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement - workers working to help their fellow workers . It's great I'm sure you would agree . This Club is going to become a real Community Club . There's a tin collectio tomorrow by The Trust for Plymouth Food Bank - another great effort .

Happy Christmas PP and may all your wishes come true .

greengenes wrote:

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement

penzancepirate wrote:

greengenes wrote:

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement

Go on PP . Do you think its good that Workers work to help their fellow workers ?

greengenes wrote:

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement - workers working to help their fellow workers . It's great I'm sure you would agree . This Club is going to become a real Community Club .

greengenes, for me this is the rub. The mantra through much of the admin process was 'pay the staff', and quite right too. I'm not going to say anything against their decisions to stay on for little-to-no wages - that was their choice, fair play to them and I do believe it's the non-playing staff that we have most to thank for their still being an Argyle for all of us to support. Likewise, while there is an argument to suggest that it played into the hands of the money men and administrators and allowed them to procrastinate, I won't say anything negative against the GTs and other for their fundraising efforts to help out the staff during that time.

However, the offer made by Brent was derisory for the non-playing staff and the fact that the GTs/Pasoti auctions are ongoing to help out the staff who are still struggling is testament to that. It's been stated by the fundraisers themselves, that's not me making stuff up. So personally I find it very hard to reconcile the near unquestioning thanks to Brent for saving the club with the fact that those staff who everyone - including Brent himself - are so thankful to for seeing us through at great personal cost are still suffering because of the 17% up front 'best and final offer'.

There was a lot of fuss on here/Pasoti the other week precisely because of this subject and I've no wish to start that again, but I just don't understand why there hasn't been more voices of protest about the 'best and final offer' with the result being GTs stepping in to bridge the gap, as it were. The workers helping out the workers because the boss didn't pay enough doesn't smack of socialism in my eyes.

Hope you see where I am coming from (I've been up since 4am so it's not the most literate I've ever been...)

Nick wrote:

greengenes wrote:

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement - workers working to help their fellow workers . It's great I'm sure you would agree . This Club is going to become a real Community Club .

greengenes, for me this is the rub. The mantra through much of the admin process was 'pay the staff', and quite right too. I'm not going to say anything against their decisions to stay on for little-to-no wages - that was their choice, fair play to them and I do believe it's the non-playing staff that we have most to thank for their still being an Argyle for all of us to support. Likewise, while there is an argument to suggest that it played into the hands of the money men and administrators and allowed them to procrastinate, I won't say anything negative against the GTs and other for their fundraising efforts to help out the staff during that time.

However, the offer made by Brent was derisory for the non-playing staff and the fact that the GTs/Pasoti auctions are ongoing to help out the staff who are still struggling is testament to that. It's been stated by the fundraisers themselves, that's not me making stuff up. So personally I find it very hard to reconcile the near unquestioning thanks to Brent for saving the club with the fact that those staff who everyone - including Brent himself - are so thankful to for seeing us through at great personal cost are still suffering because of the 17% up front 'best and final offer'.

There was a lot of fuss on here/Pasoti the other week precisely because of this subject and I've no wish to start that again, but I just don't understand why there hasn't been more voices of protest about the 'best and final offer' with the result being GTs stepping in to bridge the gap, as it were. The workers helping out the workers because the boss didn't pay enough doesn't smack of socialism in my eyes.

Hope you see where I am coming from (I've been up since 4am so it's not the most literate I've ever been...)

First of all Nick - thanks for the reasoned and civil reply . I personally cannot affect the big picture but it is in the nature of some people ( The GTs and I do a little bit myself) to actually take positive action whatever the circumstance . I can't see a lot of support for that on here . Some do a lot don't .

greengenes wrote:

penzancepirate wrote:

greengenes wrote:

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement

Go on PP . Do you think its good that Workers work to help their fellow workers ?

Charity is not socialism GG.
Brent was the only game in town ... he could call the shots. I wonder what percentage was immediately paid to the moneymen of Mastpoint, Lombard etc .... looking at the overall figures, a darn sight more than the staff got... but not a diskie bird of complaint from his new disciples.
That was Brent's choice .... don't tell me, we're all socialists now.
You may be fooled with the deal. I am not.

penzancepirate wrote:

greengenes wrote:

penzancepirate wrote:

greengenes wrote:

Remember the Green Taverners are working to accelerate staff payments . A truly wonderful Socialist movement

Go on PP . Do you think its good that Workers work to help their fellow workers ?

Charity is not socialism GG.
Brent was the only game in town ... he could call the shots. I wonder what percentage was immediately paid to the moneymen of Mastpoint, Lombard etc .... looking at the overall figures, a darn sight more than the staff got... but not a diskie bird of complaint from his new disciples.
That was Brent's choice .... don't tell me, we're all socialists now.
You may be fooled with the deal. I am not.

I'm no fool whatever you think . I observe and act . This Club is alive and will progress . RESURGAM .

By the way there is an uncomprimising welcome and backing for Brent on the opening page of this site - is that a consensus or has someone made that decision for everyone else ?

It's called good manners GG. Virtually every poster on this site backed the Brent/Council bid over any of the published alternative bids, well, apart from Postcode. So it would have been churlish not to welcome Brent.... don't you think ?
Being a poster here, do you think we should have had a vote as to what to say ?
Is your post a criticism and complaint at the welcome on our header ?

penzancepirate wrote:

It's called good manners GG. Virtually every poster on this site backed the Brent/Council bid over any of the published alternative bids, well, apart from Postcode. So it would have been churlish not to welcome Brent.... don't you think ?
Being a poster here, do you think we should have had a vote as to what to say ?
Is your post a criticism and complaint at the welcome on our header ?

A complaint or criticism ? Not all PP . I backed Brent from the start and I believe he will be good for OUR Club . He wants a community based Club . Its a fine line to walk as if he does to much he blocks people out and if he doesn't do enough he will get flak . He's a clever guy . We'll do well under his stewardship . You did mention you might start attending now Riddler is gone - are you there tomorrow ?

Sadly, some of us self employed folk have to work tomorrow. But yes, now Ridsdale has gone, I have stopped my 'boycott'.
Now all I'm left with is the distaste at how the admin process went and, like many others, an undeniably big dent in the love I once had to trooping up to Home Park. I'll only know how that feels when I next visit, almost certainly over the holiday period, and I would imagine a gratuitously half closed ground won't help the enjoyment quotient.
The only thing left that might get in the way of a full regular return to HP will be the thorny isue of what this new regime has in store for the park. That issue is still important to me, but I'm hopeful Brent will be more sensitive and sensible than the last bunch.
Enjoy the game tomorow GG.

Nick wrote:

Yeah, I've just looked back at the thread in question and it was stated that FL rules were the sticking point. Good old football!

greenjock - your avatar is deeply unsettling!

Sorry. I've put up a picture of the missus now instead

Whilst people are right to be positive about James Brent the fact he's paying unsecured creditors less than a penny in the pound seems to have become lost in the mists of time.

penzancepirate wrote:

Sadly, some of us self employed folk have to work tomorrow. But yes, now Ridsdale has gone, I have stopped my 'boycott'.
Now all I'm left with is the distaste at how the admin process went and, like many others, an undeniably big dent in the love I once had to trooping up to Home Park. I'll only know how that feels when I next visit, almost certainly over the holiday period, and I would imagine a gratuitously half closed ground won't help the enjoyment quotient.
The only thing left that might get in the way of a full regular return to HP will be the thorny isue of what this new regime has in store for the park. That issue is still important to me, but I'm hopeful Brent will be more sensitive and sensible than the last bunch.
Enjoy the game tomorow GG.

Thankyou . I'm self employed as well . I have to be strict now with how much I work . I'm lucky my missus helps .

So if it was the FL's rule that stopped Brent paying a bigger upfront payment, is there a reson why the balance has to be paid over 5 years? Just seems like such a long time for people to get back what they are owed, after putting themselves through so much hardship for the benefit of the club.

I know the GT are helping with fundraising and they have raised a fantastic amount so far, and any unbudgeted income will go towards accelerating the payments, but surely the outstanding amount isn't something thats going to break Brent financially, so why not REALLY show how much he cares and how much of a community club he wants at Argyle, by paying the balance off sooner. It just seems that Brent rode into town on the "paying the staff" ticket, and now he's in control there are more important things on the agenda. Some of the staff went through real hardship and things like repairing a bad credit history haven't been taken into consideration.

I wonder if all of the staff would have held out for so long if they knew exactly how long it was going to take to get their backdated wages?

And for what it's worth, I do think that Brent has made a positive start and appears far more open and transparent than previous regimes, so maybe it's nitpicking and we hould be delighted he's here. My truck is with the people who ram it down your throat not to question Brent, and won't hear a word against him, and take great pleasure in pointing out what sacrifices they have made compared to others. Bit reminiscent of Smashy and Nicey doing "a lot of good work for charidee mate".

Allied to the unswerving support and praise for all Ridsdale did for the club, and the continual references to "if you knew what we know", it adds up to a bunch of smug dictators who run a fans forum where there is one opinion and although it is fiercely denied, censorship of one form or another is rife.

Good post that Jock. But the issues you raise don't get a look in. Bodies are buried and everyone is supposed to pretend nothing happened. At some stage bones will rise to the surface.

Pretty certain bil ended up putting in half a mill. Not sure where I picked that up tho, i'll have a dig around.