Chris Hargreaves

He didn't get a job at Hereford and he didn't get the job at Torquay, so now he wants a crack with us!

It makes you think the word's gone out that Fletch may not be in his job for much longer, I wonder?

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To be honest I feel Fletcher and Hargreaves would just be similair. Both have no experience as managers and all both have are coaching badges. Would rather stick with Fletcher than change things again - unless its Gary Johnson.

Gary Johnson for me. He could just pull of the miracle of miracles and keep us in the football league IF Fletch is immediately sacked and Johnson brought in now.

As for Hargreaves - behave.

Gary?

Really?

Your green tinting needs a bit of lightening. We haven't the money.

Brent knows we are heading for the Conference and frankly he doesn't care. Football is secondary to him. He is looking at the development potential of HP. Make no mistake there is no money at our place and won't be for many years to come.

Cerbera wrote:

Gary?

Really?

Your green tinting needs a bit of lightening. We haven't the money.

Brent knows we are heading for the Conference and frankly he doesn't care. Football is secondary to him. He is looking at the development potential of HP. Make no mistake there is no money at our place and won't be for many years to come.

But if he can keep the Pasoti/ GT's sweet, they'll run around helping to pay for things and guarantee a few thousand Avivas turning out to support Argyle in the Conference.
We'll be the best supported club in the league. Doesn't it make you proud ?

What fun. 'At least we've got our club back!'.................... Really ?

Cerbera wrote:

Gary?

Really?

Your green tinting needs a bit of lightening. We haven't the money.

Brent knows we are heading for the Conference and frankly he doesn't care. Football is secondary to him. He is looking at the development potential of HP. Make no mistake there is no money at our place and won't be for many years to come.

On the Brent front that's utter rubbish IMHO, as out of place on a thread about Chris Hargreaves as a 'floater' in the shallow end, a hijack of Turpinesque proportions...............nevertheless, I have a couple of minutes so i'll pick up that gauntlet and slap you round the face with it a while .

His first. last and only position on Argyle was to preserve a flagship westcountry brand and preserve a place on the national sporting map for a team on the penisnsula. And just how the the name of all that is Tynan is he looking to screw money out of Home Park by selling it below market rate to the council?. He's ensured there that the moneygrabbers of the past won't get their hands on our club again..............yet you suggest he's a moneygrabber himself?, nuts!.

If there's feck all money for managers or players it's because we've just come out of administration and must pay deferred debts for the next five years. We need to stand on our own two feet, the area has no divine right to footballing world dominance and we'll move forward by people coming out and supporting their team, not via a bankrolling sugar daddy.

We're far better off with Brent than the two other alternatives we faced, and it baffles me how someone couldn't grasp that. Liquidation suit you better Cerbs?. Or maybe the even worse option IMHO, exactly where we are now only with a quarter million pound p/a chairmans salary to service and the rental demands of a private property developing landlord to meet..........a GENUINELY disinterested and moneygrabbing bastard, not the faux demon you're pointing at.

Everyone wants the team to push on but get a grip and wake up. You don't maximise your development potential by practically giving away your land to a public body. He's delivering exactly what he promised and what we needed, stability and self reliance not fleecing us as the previous incumbents have.

Utter dangly nutsacks .

PM sent.

Back on track, Hargreaves?

Err no.

No contacts to speak of, not known in football. Relatively well known in the SW, but that's no good to us. We need somebody's understudy from a L1/L2 club in the Midlands or up Norf who shows promise and needs to prove himself before being the next 'big thing'. A young Ollie or Warnock if you want an analogy.

X Isle wrote:

Cerbera wrote:

Gary?

Really?

Your green tinting needs a bit of lightening. We haven't the money.

Brent knows we are heading for the Conference and frankly he doesn't care. Football is secondary to him. He is looking at the development potential of HP. Make no mistake there is no money at our place and won't be for many years to come.

On the Brent front that's utter rubbish IMHO, as out of place on a thread about Chris Hargreaves as a 'floater' in the shallow end, a hijack of Turpinesque proportions...............nevertheless, I have a couple of minutes so i'll pick up that gauntlet and slap you round the face with it a while .

His first. last and only position on Argyle was to preserve a flagship westcountry brand and preserve a place on the national sporting map for a team on the penisnsula. And just how the the name of all that is Tynan is he looking to screw money out of Home Park by selling it below market rate to the council?. He's ensured there that the moneygrabbers of the past won't get their hands on our club again..............yet you suggest he's a moneygrabber himself?, nuts!.

If there's feck all money for managers or players it's because we've just come out of administration and must pay deferred debts for the next five years. We need to stand on our own two feet, the area has no divine right to footballing world dominance and we'll move forward by people coming out and supporting their team, not via a bankrolling sugar daddy.

We're far better off with Brent than the two other alternatives we faced, and it baffles me how someone couldn't grasp that. Liquidation suit you better Cerbs?. Or maybe the even worse option IMHO, exactly where we are now only with a quarter million pound p/a chairmans salary to service and the rental demands of a private property developing landlord to meet..........a GENUINELY disinterested and moneygrabbing bastard, not the faux demon you're pointing at.

Everyone wants the team to push on but get a grip and wake up. You don't maximise your development potential by practically giving away your land to a public body. He's delivering exactly what he promised and what we needed, stability and self reliance not fleecing us as the previous incumbents have.

Utter dangly nutsacks .

Smiffy, I've asked this before, how do we stand on our own two feet with consideration that no other club in the FL stands on its own two feet alone?

Brent done the business and secured our future, but what's the worth of a future outside of the FL?

Considering that Brent has with the purchase of the club stabalised the club, are his intentions to now seek a buyer with an interest of investing in the club?

Cerbs - as per PM there's a realism void in some quarters on both sites, if I shot an innocent by-stander then sorry old boy. I do always ensure they get a decent non-denominational burial mind .

GOB.

Para 1 - By spending only what comes through the gates, sponsorship deals, shop, TV, league finance and ground generating income streams. I dispute your assertion that no other club aspires to achieve self sufficiency and turns over close to or just under that sum. None of the successful one's do I grant thee, but our gates are shit for a city of our size in a region of it's size so should get exactly what that apathy deserves, just as it's always been.

Para 2 - No future outside the football league?. Tell Oxford that, they've maintained gates and rebuilt, coming back strong. See also the many small BUT WELL RUN clubs that have come through to achieve league success. Yeovil, Dag/Red and Stevenage have all been promoted from through League 2 and Burton, Accrington, Macc yadda yadda are alive and well. Again I basically dispute your assertion.

Para 3 - I have no idea, i've never met him and have no association bar an enthusiastic admiration for what he was bringing (stability, good governance, simplicity, honesty, integrity and trust [small T]) and what he wasn't bringing (private property developer rents, a private income for the chairman and promises of riches that turn out to be false). Again I would dispute your assertion that he's stabilised the club, that it's done and dusted. We still have a 5 year debt repayment commitment and a commitment to some massively disproprtionate wages pledged to signings made in the Championship. The wage bill needs to go down further to become self sufficient, we are not stabilised, we are not standing on our own two feet yet.

That's my position on things, but I have no position on Chris Hargreaves as our next manager.

I would have thought the penny would have dropped by now with you, re supposed apathetic local support Smiffy.

I just can't be arsed explaining again.

Tringreen wrote:

I would have thought the penny would have dropped by now with you, re supposed apathetic local support Smiffy.

I just can't be arsed explaining again.

I have to agree with you there Tringy, years have been spent arguing the toss.. Things may come. thing may go, but Smiffy will always spout this head count fickle philosophy nonsense. Fickle we are, fickle we'll always be apparently to those up in the South East ... and lazy and tired to boot, no doubt. Just give me a loaf of bread I find palatable.

Tringreen wrote:

I would have thought the penny would have dropped by now with you, re supposed apathetic local support Smiffy.

I just can't be arsed explaining again.

Must admit i was puzzled by this too,but there you go.I could have sworn that Smiffy said the other day that he could see how the apathy had arisen over the years,maybe i dreamt it.Anyway,our gates were far from shit last season,5th highest in the division was it,in spite of relegation and administration,and about 4th highest this year,in spite of being 92nd.Not too shabby in 2004/5,either,16400 in spite of finishing 17th.Better than Bristol City,Cardiff,Swansea,Blackpool etc in their first seasons back in the CCC.And in spite of lack of investment and a shit league position.Shall i go back to the 1950's,1960's and 1970's,as well? Nah,lets not let facts get in the way of a good prejudice.

Greenskin wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

I would have thought the penny would have dropped by now with you, re supposed apathetic local support Smiffy.

I just can't be arsed explaining again.

Must admit i was puzzled by this too,but there you go.I could have sworn that Smiffy said the other day that he could see how the apathy had arisen over the years,maybe i dreamt it.Anyway,our gates were far from shit last season,5th highest in the division was it,in spite of relegation and administration,and about 4th highest this year,in spite of being 92nd.Not too shabby in 2004/5,either,16400 in spite of finishing 17th.Better than Bristol City,Cardiff,Swansea,Blackpool etc in their first seasons back in the CCC.And in spite of lack of investment and a shit league position.Shall i go back to the 1950's,1960's and 1970's,as well? Nah,lets not let facts get in the way of a good prejudice.

I think his history on PASOTI, trusting in Stapes right up until the bitter end gives that impression. Now he's got a new crush I suspect it'll all be the fault of the 'Apathetic janners' once more, if we get relegated.

On one of Smiffy's points, does anyone know how much that odious tool ridsdale is earning under JB?

not enough for a messiah
too much for a twat

X Isle wrote:

Cerbs - as per PM there's a realism void in some quarters on both sites, if I shot an innocent by-stander then sorry old boy. I do always ensure they get a decent non-denominational burial mind .

GOB.

Para 1 - By spending only what comes through the gates, sponsorship deals, shop, TV, league finance and ground generating income streams. I dispute your assertion that no other club aspires to achieve self sufficiency and turns over close to or just under that sum. None of the successful one's do I grant thee, but our gates are shit for a city of our size in a region of it's size so should get exactly what that apathy deserves, just as it's always been.

Para 2 - No future outside the football league?. Tell Oxford that, they've maintained gates and rebuilt, coming back strong. See also the many small BUT WELL RUN clubs that have come through to achieve league success. Yeovil, Dag/Red and Stevenage have all been promoted from through League 2 and Burton, Accrington, Macc yadda yadda are alive and well. Again I basically dispute your assertion.

Para 3 - I have no idea, i've never met him and have no association bar an enthusiastic admiration for what he was bringing (stability, good governance, simplicity, honesty, integrity and trust [small T]) and what he wasn't bringing (private property developer rents, a private income for the chairman and promises of riches that turn out to be false). Again I would dispute your assertion that he's stabilised the club, that it's done and dusted. We still have a 5 year debt repayment commitment and a commitment to some massively disproprtionate wages pledged to signings made in the Championship. The wage bill needs to go down further to become self sufficient, we are not stabilised, we are not standing on our own two feet yet.

That's my position on things, but I have no position on Chris Hargreaves as our next manager.

Para 1 - Dispute it if you like Smiffy but it's the FL and the Government that provide the facts, not me. Hence the Government investigation into FL club funding as there's a fear that the "stand on your own two feet" agenda is going to close quite a few clubs as their assets are used and abused. Did you know that the operating losses in the top four divisions outstrip Premier League's profits? - Total losses for the 92 league clubs stands at £600m and, that's with outside financing, so I'm just gagging to see a business plan of how Argyle is going to "stand on its own two feet". Did you also know that non-FL clubs are more likely to go bust then FL clubs? - It's all out there Smiffy you just have to look for it, but to be frank, the idea of the club standing on its own two feet whilst retaining its position in the FL is comical at best.

Para 2- I suggest you study the finances of each of the clubs you mention.

Para 4 - Brent is on record stating that he has no interest in the club, despite his PR team constantly telling us what a fan he now is. I am under the impression that you know him well Smiffy?

X Isle wrote:

Cerbs - as per PM there's a realism void in some quarters on both sites, if I shot an innocent by-stander then sorry old boy. I do always ensure they get a decent non-denominational burial mind .

GOB.

Para 1 - By spending only what comes through the gates, sponsorship deals, shop, TV, league finance and ground generating income streams. I dispute your assertion that no other club aspires to achieve self sufficiency and turns over close to or just under that sum. None of the successful one's do I grant thee, but our gates are shit for a city of our size in a region of it's size so should get exactly what that apathy deserves, just as it's always been.

Para 2 - No future outside the football league?. Tell Oxford that, they've maintained gates and rebuilt, coming back strong. See also the many small BUT WELL RUN clubs that have come through to achieve league success. Yeovil, Dag/Red and Stevenage have all been promoted from through League 2 and Burton, Accrington, Macc yadda yadda are alive and well. Again I basically dispute your assertion.

Para 3 - I have no idea, i've never met him and have no association bar an enthusiastic admiration for what he was bringing (stability, good governance, simplicity, honesty, integrity and trust [small T]) and what he wasn't bringing (private property developer rents, a private income for the chairman and promises of riches that turn out to be false). Again I would dispute your assertion that he's stabilised the club, that it's done and dusted. We still have a 5 year debt repayment commitment and a commitment to some massively disproprtionate wages pledged to signings made in the Championship. The wage bill needs to go down further to become self sufficient, we are not stabilised, we are not standing on our own two feet yet.

That's my position on things, but I have no position on Chris Hargreaves as our next manager.

You can bang the poor gates drum as long as you like, the fact is our gates are easily commensurate for a club of our status. The fact is we've been bollocks for most of our history, and the wider public understand that. Its easier for an 'X-Isle' to feel affection for a club as its a totem of the place they've left behind. Its just wrong to blame people for refusing to turn up to watch crap lower league football.

Crap gates because it's woeful to watch.

Simple.

Gates of 16000+ when we were top half of the Championship pre-recession speak for themselves.

Joe Public has less disposable income and thinks twice before committing to spend any of it. £20 to watch a crap performance and loss by 'your' team or stay at home and watch Stelling and Co and save the £20 to pay for the chinky that you and the wife are going to enjoy once the kids have gone to bed? Hmmmm tough choice for your average fan.

It's the same at SJP, their core support is about 3200, gates are falling to perilously close to this. Mind you 4200 with the Chiefs at home on the same day was pretty impressive when we were managing just 5409.

But........... the main reason is 'history' or lack of it'.

We were up there attendance wise, with Southampton, Norwich, Ipswich in the 50's and 60's.

Any idea why they now have solid 20 k fanbases no matter how low they fall ?

Because historically we have had a lower disposable income than the rest of the country. Without sounding like a whinger, there used to be a profitable fishing industry, tin mining, china clay as well as a thriving tourist industry in the south west. However, aside from a shrinking tourist industry and shorter holiday season, all that has mostly gone. The incoming population of both Devon and Cornwall are either professional, with middle class values which evidently don't include football or pensioners who can't/won't afford a ticket to watch football.

It's not just us, it's across the whole gamut of football. Tiverton Town? 200 would be an average gate. Willand Rovers? 60 if you are lucky. Cullompton Rangers? No idea but not many.

Southampton, Norwich and Ipswich are all 'bigger' clubs than Plymouth. We have never really set the world alight, been in the top flight of football or had anything to bring us to the fore. We have always been a small anonymous club in the far south west of England. The other three (and there are plenty more clubs) have all enjoyed the notoriety of being on the telly - before it was Sky and have all had famous managers (yes, so have we) who are not publicity shy.

Wigan. That's a potential northern equivalent team to us. I know they are Premiership, and had that Jewell bloke in charge and a load of cash, but they are definitely on the wane. Another club that may well slip to mid table League one mediocrity.

I don't buy into much of that mate. The key indicator for the 13th largest city club is the lack of top flight/ European exposure. If we had, or still could, achieve what Norwich etc have, we'd be just as well supported.

It's same old Argo......... many on here have commented on their fathers and grandfathers saying, 'Argyle don't want to go up'.

The club has a rightly crap reputation locally and people are justifiably sceptical.

They won't turn out unless we're on a roll and when we get to the 2nd tier, there has to be cashed backed ambition. A real statement of intent to get people to buy in.

We're nothing like Wigan. If we had an owner like theirs we'd pull 30 k for home matches in the PL.

[quote="Cerbera"]Because historically we have had a lower disposable income than the rest of the country. Without sounding like a whinger, there used to be a profitable fishing industry, tin mining, china clay as well as a thriving tourist industry in the south west. However, aside from a shrinking tourist industry and shorter holiday season, all that has mostly gone. The incoming population of both Devon and Cornwall are either professional, with middle class values which evidently don't include football or pensioners who can't/won't afford a ticket to watch football.

It's not just us, it's across the whole gamut of football. Tiverton Town? 200 would be an average gate. Willand Rovers? 60 if you are lucky. Cullompton Rangers? No idea but not many.

Southampton, Norwich and Ipswich are all 'bigger' clubs than Plymouth. We have never really set the world alight, been in the top flight of football or had anything to bring us to the fore. We have always been a small anonymous club in the far south west of England. The other three (and there are plenty more clubs) have all enjoyed the notoriety of being on the telly - before it was Sky and have all had famous managers (yes, so have we) who are not publicity shy.

Wigan. That's a potential northern equivalent team to us. I know they are Premiership, and had that Jewell bloke in charge and a load of cash, but they are definitely on the wane. Another club that may well slip to mid table League one mediocrity.[/quote

The point is though,that at one time Southampton,Norwich and Ipswich weren't bigger clubs than Argyle,in Ipswich's case they were considerably smaller.On the old ArgyleTalk,i posted some figures based on this attendance table;

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I can't be arsed to go through it all again but believe me,if you compare Argyle's gates with the three clubs mentioned,you'll find that in the period between 1947 and when those the the period clubs reached the first division for the first time in their histories,Argyles gates were bigger than all of them.This surely demonstrates why Argyle's gates have declined so badly and why the other three clubs have built up a substantial fan base? Or am i missing something here? Ipswich reached the top flight for the first time in 1960,i believe,which was before my time.I do however remember Southampton reaching the first division as was in 1966 and Norwich in 1972.The common denominator for both clubs was that they kept their best players and built around them,rather than selling good players and buying cheap crap to replace them,which is a scenario so familiar to anyone over the age of 40 as far as Argyle are concerned-it happened in the 1960's,1970's,1980's and was no surprise to us old codgers when it happened again this time.The plain truth is that local businessmen/professionals have never had either the wherewithal or the ambition to push the club any further,resulting in inevitable decline and even deeper financial problems, and until that is addressed,the club will never progress past mid table CCC for any length of time.Sorry to bang on about this again,but i feel it is very important to know Argyle's history when trying to understand the present.

Cerbera wrote:

Because historically we have had a lower disposable income than the rest of the country. Without sounding like a whinger, there used to be a profitable fishing industry, tin mining, china clay as well as a thriving tourist industry in the south west. However, aside from a shrinking tourist industry and shorter holiday season, all that has mostly gone. The incoming population of both Devon and Cornwall are either professional, with middle class values which evidently don't include football or pensioners who can't/won't afford a ticket to watch football.

It's not just us, it's across the whole gamut of football. Tiverton Town? 200 would be an average gate. Willand Rovers? 60 if you are lucky. Cullompton Rangers? No idea but not many.

Southampton, Norwich and Ipswich are all 'bigger' clubs than Plymouth. We have never really set the world alight, been in the top flight of football or had anything to bring us to the fore. We have always been a small anonymous club in the far south west of England. The other three (and there are plenty more clubs) have all enjoyed the notoriety of being on the telly - before it was Sky and have all had famous managers (yes, so have we) who are not publicity shy.

Wigan. That's a potential northern equivalent team to us. I know they are Premiership, and had that Jewell bloke in charge and a load of cash, but they are definitely on the wane. Another club that may well slip to mid table League one mediocrity.

We're nothing like Wigan, we don't compete with Rugby League nor do we have Manchester United or Liverpool on our doorsteps. We also don't have an owner prepared to pump millions in for no return (obviously).

Nor do I agree with your comments regarding the demographic, if there is a decent product to be consumed then people will come, Liverpool has some of the poorest wards in England.

The fact is that for the last 4 years we have been useless on and off the pitch and at various crucial times in our history we have spectacularly poor decisions.

So it all boils down to lack of investment from a sugar daddy and the lack of top flight football?

Cerbera wrote:

So it all boils down to lack of investment from a sugar daddy and the lack of top flight football?

Definitely the lack of top flight football.And i don't even think a sugar daddy has been needed really,just adequate funding a la Swansea or Blackpool,whether that comes from an individual or a group is irrelevant.We've had capable managers down here,who could build teams on not especially heavy investment,Holloway being the latest example.Unfortunately they have all suffered the same fate [Waiters and Dave Smith spring readily to mind] of being sawn off after the vast percentage of their work was already done-Holloway and Pulis would have borne this in mind when deciding to leave the club.