The New Hillsborough Inquest

Contrary lack of care.

It's not up for debate though is it? It's an enquiry where facts will be given. See Gareth's post above - that's pretty much it. But then, you personally insulted him.

He patronised me

I'm my eyes he presented valid arguments and you called him a prick, not the most incisive debating method that I have seen employed.

Read the thread again and see who called who a prick first

Sorry, you're right he did call you a prick first, moral high ground belongs to you.   

Pissed off Man Utd fan doesn't like the success LFC are having this season and indulges in some tribal racism. No story here, move on.

Iggy wrote:

Sorry, you're right he did call you a prick first, moral high ground belongs to you.   

Top Tip: Avoid being called a prick by not acting like one.

What a complete w*nker the author of this thread is..
Can't the MODs get rid of him he brings jack shit to the table, a bit like David Moyes! COYG/YNWA/JFT96.

Uh oh. Dane, he called you a w*nker and he did so first. Call him a wanker back in the spirit of debate!

He is a wanker and I claim the moral high ground once more

How can an individual without morals claim the high moral ground ?? Sad act!

Just watched the memorial service on the BBC. Very emotional, very good and about right for the way it was conducted.

RIP the 96 victims.

This was on the Man Utd twitter feed today.

Emotion to one side, it's something that not just football fans should be united on, the whole country should be greatly alarmed at the rate of police and public office corruption that seem to make headlines almost weekly.

GOB wrote:

Emotion to one side, it's something that not just football fans should be united on, the whole country should be greatly alarmed at the rate of police and public office corruption that seem to make headlines almost weekly.

I couldn't agree more. There are bound to be good cops but the actions of the bad ones - or even whole forces - damage the reputation of the others. The saddest thing about that is that it's more likely that the 'ordinary criminals' will get off because of corruption.

I've had both good & bad experience of police in the past. Interestingly, one of the bad experiences was leaving Hillsborough after we got beat in a cup match MANY years ago. My sister-in-law was as well-behaved as you could get but she used to be vitriolic about the behaviour of police at football grounds. In a different context, my boss at one point was an ex-solicitor & her take on it was that she wouldn't trust a cop at any time (mind you, I didn't trust her either). That's sad..... if ordinary law-abiding people like me & my sister-in-law have this view of the police then something is seriously going wrong.

knecht wrote:

GOB wrote:

Emotion to one side, it's something that not just football fans should be united on, the whole country should be greatly alarmed at the rate of police and public office corruption that seem to make headlines almost weekly.

I couldn't agree more. There are bound to be good cops but the actions of the bad ones - or even whole forces - damage the reputation of the others. The saddest thing about that is that it's more likely that the 'ordinary criminals' will get off because of corruption.

I've had both good & bad experience of police in the past. Interestingly, one of the bad experiences was leaving Hillsborough after we got beat in a cup match MANY years ago. My sister-in-law was as well-behaved as you could get but she used to be vitriolic about the behaviour of police at football grounds. In a different context, my boss at one point was an ex-solicitor & her take on it was that she wouldn't trust a cop at any time (mind you, I didn't trust her either). That's sad..... if ordinary law-abiding people like me & my sister-in-law have this view of the police then something is seriously going wrong.

I put it down to the lack of a decent Police TOR.

Maybe not for here, but I am interested in why Bradford is not given a shred as much respect and mourning and annual recurring grieving as the Hillsborough tragedy.

There were 56 deaths and 265 receiving burns and requiring hospital treatment, all emanating from one dropped cigarette. The gates were locked and not opened there too.

When fans say to others, "this is not about injustice, this is not about the latest judicial review, this is not about the corrupt police force and politicians, this is just remembering the 96" - I genuinely think fair enough, but what about the 56?

What is different about the tragedy at Bradford whereby 'the 56' is not a familiar term, but 'the 96' is constantly on the national sporting agenda and in the minds of everyone?

It would be interesting how many individual minute silences have been held up and down the country at sporting events, for the one tragedy and then the other, and the reasons why.

I did notice a combined Hillsborough 96 and Rangers FC 66 referring to the Ibrox 1971 stadium disaster.

Not normal bedfellows either Liverpool and Rangers.

I've been thinking about that too, ejh, in the last few days. All I could come up with was that the Hillsborough tragedy was literally in full view on tv as well as live on the radio. The Anfield Community was an institution. I'm also tempted to say that maybe - just maybe - scousers are more mouthy & absolutely rightly didn't want to let it go. The subsequent headlines in the Sun (spit) also contributed to the well-publicised anger.

I think I'm right in saying that the locked gates at Bradford were because someone couldn't find the key. Whereas the actions of the police at Hillsborough were a positive contribution to the tragedy. The subsequent gradual unravelling of the appalling cover-up by South Yorkshire's best also has meant it has maintained its position in the headlines.

Dick Trickle wrote:

I did notice a combined Hillsborough 96 and Rangers FC 66 referring to the Ibrox 1971 stadium disaster.

Not normal bedfellows either Liverpool and Rangers.

And then there's Heysel.....

knecht wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

I did notice a combined Hillsborough 96 and Rangers FC 66 referring to the Ibrox 1971 stadium disaster.

Not normal bedfellows either Liverpool and Rangers.

And then there's Heysel.....

Dane...!!!......Knecht's crossed in front of an open goal for you...

ejh wrote:

Maybe not for here, but I am interested in why Bradford is not given a shred as much respect and mourning and annual recurring grieving as the Hillsborough tragedy.

There were 56 deaths and 265 receiving burns and requiring hospital treatment, all emanating from one dropped cigarette. The gates were locked and not opened there too.

When fans say to others, "this is not about injustice, this is not about the latest judicial review, this is not about the corrupt police force and politicians, this is just remembering the 96" - I genuinely think fair enough, but what about the 56?

What is different about the tragedy at Bradford whereby 'the 56' is not a familiar term, but 'the 96' is constantly on the national sporting agenda and in the minds of everyone?

It would be interesting how many individual minute silences have been held up and down the country at sporting events, for the one tragedy and then the other, and the reasons why.

I'm so bored by "whatabout-ery". I distinctly remember grounds around the country remembering the Valley Parade fire on its 25th anniversary in 2010. And grounds around the country remember it in their own way every year.

Why would it be interesting to count up how many minutes silences have been held for individual tragedies? Are we so crass now that we seek to quantify tragedy and rank it? "I'm a Torino fan so naturally I'm shocked and alarmed that the Superga air crash receives far less coverage than Munich." What a bloody stupid position to take!

Hillsborough stands as a memorial and a punctuation mark on the end of an era where football fans were treated as less than human. It represents the gross negligence, utter indifference and active prejudice of police, MPs, the media and the football authorities. It was a tragedy played out live to the nation on cup semi final day. It is part of the national consciousness and cup semi finals will always be played out with that memory hanging over them.

I've seen no coverage of families of the Valley Parade victims saying "hey now. Why all this focus on Liverpool fans?". I suspect they take time to quietly contemplate the pain and trauma they go through every year and I am pretty sure that they come together and support the Hillsborough families. I suspect the last thing they need are peverse cheerleaders on web forums and social media and contrarian journalists using their grief as a weapon to bash people attempting to remember a day that should never have happened.

Ultimately, how you choose to spend a minute's silence and what you choose to think about during it is entirely for you. It really is that simple.

Terry Christian might not be everybody's cup of tea but he's a Manchester United fan, was born in Manchester, lives in Machester and he goes to Man Utd matches. He wrote this a while back re Hillsborough.

http://www.terrychristian.tv/hillsborough-justice-delayed-is-justice-denied/

It's well worth a read.

Gareth Nicholson wrote:

ejh wrote:

Maybe not for here, but I am interested in why Bradford is not given a shred as much respect and mourning and annual recurring grieving as the Hillsborough tragedy.

There were 56 deaths and 265 receiving burns and requiring hospital treatment, all emanating from one dropped cigarette. The gates were locked and not opened there too.

When fans say to others, "this is not about injustice, this is not about the latest judicial review, this is not about the corrupt police force and politicians, this is just remembering the 96" - I genuinely think fair enough, but what about the 56?

What is different about the tragedy at Bradford whereby 'the 56' is not a familiar term, but 'the 96' is constantly on the national sporting agenda and in the minds of everyone?

It would be interesting how many individual minute silences have been held up and down the country at sporting events, for the one tragedy and then the other, and the reasons why.

I'm so bored by "whatabout-ery". I distinctly remember grounds around the country remembering the Valley Parade fire on its 25th anniversary in 2010. And grounds around the country remember it in their own way every year.

Why would it be interesting to count up how many minutes silences have been held for individual tragedies? Are we so crass now that we seek to quantify tragedy and rank it? "I'm a Torino fan so naturally I'm shocked and alarmed that the Superga air crash receives far less coverage than Munich." What a bloody stupid position to take!

Hillsborough stands as a memorial and a punctuation mark on the end of an era where football fans were treated as less than human. It represents the gross negligence, utter indifference and active prejudice of police, MPs, the media and the football authorities. It was a tragedy played out live to the nation on cup semi final day. It is part of the national consciousness and cup semi finals will always be played out with that memory hanging over them.

I've seen no coverage of families of the Valley Parade victims saying "hey now. Why all this focus on Liverpool fans?". I suspect they take time to quietly contemplate the pain and trauma they go through every year and I am pretty sure that they come together and support the Hillsborough families. I suspect the last thing they need are peverse cheerleaders on web forums and social media and contrarian journalists using their grief as a weapon to bash people attempting to remember a day that should never have happened.

Ultimately, how you choose to spend a minute's silence and what you choose to think about during it is entirely for you. It really is that simple.

The point is, Valley Parade's tragedy had a silence for the 25th anniversary. Before that, I don't remember one for a very long time. We have a minutes silence all over the country almost every year for Hillsborough.

The irony is that you feel it is crass to rank tragedies, well it is yourself and the football authorities and the papers and the TV programmes, who subliminally rank Hillsborough as more important by cherishing 'the 96' every season with barely a mention or a memory of what happened at Valley Parade. Or like yourself, you keep that memory silently and just reflect in a silence arranged for Hillsborough.

I am not purporting to speak for any family from Bradford or on the nature of their grief. I am sure they can certainly sympathise with Liverpool families who saw their relative leave for a game of football, and not return.

My only observation is that the families affected by the Valley Parade fire seem to have dealt with their grief sombrely and privately, and locally, without mobilising as victims, and the community oriented grieving of Liverpool, with the constant campaign to keep it in the national spotlight. Obviously the campaign of deceit on the part of the establishment has had a huge part to play in that, but if the silences are to mourn the victims, I still do not understand why Hillsborough victims are given significantly more thought and exposure than the victims of Valley Parade. The game, the FA, and the media should do more to remember other victims and tragedies, if their true agenda is to mourn those who died and suffered, rather than to be drawn into the campaign for justice that the Liverpool families are fighting, which to me is an entirely separate issue.