Playoffs just a pipe dream?

Bandwagon wrote:

I will be meeting some Pompey mates in an undisclosed drinking hole, I have been told to play it cool and no antagonistics and I'll be fine - pretty much the same as any away game really!! Dont believe there will be anything on this game anyhow.

Indeed Bandy. I'm meeting up with a Pompey season ticket holder in one of "their pubs" at 11am. Whilst relegating a team is funny I was there in 87 when Summerfield scored to end their unbeaten run (Easter Monday I think) and it was shit scary getting out of there. Whilst football has changed there are still some outposts that retain their "edge", Pompey is one.

Personally I don't think that we are ready to go up, as has been said momentum is everything and the last thing that we need is to spend a season in League 1 getting hammered in every game then try to arrest the slide again after relegation. Sneak into the playoffs and come close would be a great end to the season and give us something that we can build on next year.
I hope that the Pompey game will be a relegation and playoff decider, that would be something worth turning out for.
And if you want to appear to be a Pompeien call everybody a Skate in the aforementioned pseudo cockerney accent.

Dick Trickle wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

I will be meeting some Pompey mates in an undisclosed drinking hole, I have been told to play it cool and no antagonistics and I'll be fine - pretty much the same as any away game really!! Dont believe there will be anything on this game anyhow.

Indeed Bandy. I'm meeting up with a Pompey season ticket holder in one of "their pubs" at 11am. Whilst relegating a team is funny I was there in 87 when Summerfield scored to end their unbeaten run (Easter Monday I think) and it was shit scary getting out of there. Whilst football has changed there are still some outposts that retain their "edge", Pompey is one.

Quite possibly my favourite away game ever, that was. Pompey unbeaten at home all season and heading for certain promotion to (what's now) the Prem. 3,000 Argyle fans crammed on to the open terrace. Summerfield scores at our end and sinks to his knees in front of us. Cue to this day probably the most ecstatic celebration of an Argyle goal I've ever had the pleasure to witness.   

Those celebrations were replicated at full-time and as the ground emptied (they kept us in) there were 2-300 of their 6:57 crew just standing on the terrace to our right. All sorts of naughtiness ensued outside as you can imagine.

It's away days like that and the corresponding one a few years earlier in '83 when they took our place apart, that shape how you view a football club for a lifetime. Fookin hate Pompey.

I'll be at the Pompey game, and not in colours.

If we win the game and send them down, look out!!

A win tomorrow will let us flirt with the playoffs a bit longer. I still find it incredible that this Argyle side still have a shout at all. But it's wins and draws that are required in basically equal measure from now until the end of the normal season.

Dick Trickle wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

I will be meeting some Pompey mates in an undisclosed drinking hole, I have been told to play it cool and no antagonistics and I'll be fine - pretty much the same as any away game really!! Dont believe there will be anything on this game anyhow.

Indeed Bandy. I'm meeting up with a Pompey season ticket holder in one of "their pubs" at 11am. Whilst relegating a team is funny I was there in 87 when Summerfield scored to end their unbeaten run (Easter Monday I think) and it was shit scary getting out of there. Whilst football has changed there are still some outposts that retain their "edge", Pompey is one.

Wonder if it's the same pub? - also remember the 87 game as I just bought a brand new Toyota MR2, only 1600 twin cam and I took my Chelsea luving brother in law down from here in North Dorset. Thing went like a rocket and there is a stretch of dual carriageway between Salisbury and Wellow and took the bugger up to 125mph - that is as fast as I've ever done!! Looking forward to the game but will let the train take the strain!!

i'll be there as well with Jock. Our train arrives at 9.50, any idea which pubs are best to go to ?    

From the guide to grounds:

"On my last visit I went to the Good Companion pub, which is on the main A2030 about a five minute walk away from the ground. It is a large pub serving real ales and had a good mix of home and away support. I also noticed that it was doing a brisk business in food. Martin Hewitt recommends the Harvester, but advises away fans to avoid the Milton Arms and the Newcome Arms. Whilst Ian Pratt suggests the Brewers Arms which is 'always popular with away fans'.

Derek Hall adds; 'Found a cracking little pub, about a mile away from the ground, on Fawcett Road. It's called (very appropriately) The Red, White and Blue. There are also a few other pubs - and plenty of take-aways (of all varieties) along this road. Friendly staff, friendly Pompey fans (chiefly, of the elder variety) and simple food fayre on offer. To reach the pub, you just head west from the ground, towards the Fratton Railway Station, along Goldsmith Avenue. Just past the station, you reach a roundabout - and Fawcett Road is immediately on your left'.

Pete Wood a visiting Doncaster Rovers fan informs me; 'If travelling by train from London, then your return ticket from London Waterloo allows you to get off at either Fratton (nearest to ground), Portsmouth & Southsea (best for pubs) or Portsmouth Harbour. What we did was have a drink in the two Wetherspoon pubs near Portsmouth & Southsea Station before getting the train back to Fratton for the match. You can catch a train back to Waterloo from Fratton after the game. The trains run every 20 or 30 minutes or so'."

If you don't need food I went into The Brewers Arms before the FA Cup game. Perfectly fine.

Thanks Mr Trickle

Greenskin wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

X Isle wrote:

It's gonna be a mad old last game too, just hope ours and Pompey's league 2 future isn't secured beforehand, it could be a cracker.  

Yeah can't wait trying to leave the city on the one road in and out if we send them down. FFS.have ever been to Pompey?

Not a bad idea after the match to hide any sign of being an away supporter and mingle with the crowd,saying "faaaaackin' scummers" in a ridiculous pseudo London accent all the way to Fratton station.Anyway,Pompey will be safe and we won't be going anywhere,probably fizzle out into a mutual back slapping fest.Fings ain't wot they used to be.Good thing too as far as Fratton Park is concerned.

Yes Hugh, I have been to Pompey 

The two most notable 'dashes' Greenskin were the Easter Monday Summerfield 1-0 that brought their year long unbeaten home record crashing down in '87 and the 0-3 midweek masterclass in '89. Feigning being pissed off and suppressing smiles is harder than you'd think.

Their win on Saturday and our defeat though makes a 'dead rubber' game more likely as far as any thing being at stake football wise. Pride and tradition however, different story.

X Isle wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

X Isle wrote:

It's gonna be a mad old last game too, just hope ours and Pompey's league 2 future isn't secured beforehand, it could be a cracker.  

Yeah can't wait trying to leave the city on the one road in and out if we send them down. FFS.have ever been to Pompey?

Not a bad idea after the match to hide any sign of being an away supporter and mingle with the crowd,saying "faaaaackin' scummers" in a ridiculous pseudo London accent all the way to Fratton station.Anyway,Pompey will be safe and we won't be going anywhere,probably fizzle out into a mutual back slapping fest.Fings ain't wot they used to be.Good thing too as far as Fratton Park is concerned.

Yes Hugh, I have been to Pompey 

The two most notable 'dashes' Greenskin were the Easter Monday Summerfield 1-0 that brought their year long unbeaten home record crashing down in '87 and the 0-3 midweek masterclass in '89. Feigning being pissed off and suppressing smiles is harder than you'd think.

Their win on Saturday and our defeat though makes a 'dead rubber' game more likely as far as any thing being at stake football wise. Pride and tradition however, different story.

Went to a league cup tie up there in 1980 on a very wet Tuesday evening.There had been serious hell between the fans at Home Park in the first leg and it didn't abate at Fratton Park.There was a lad on our bus [think he was called Brendan,went to Boniface college] who having got to the ground and paid his entrance money,leapt over the fence and lamped a Pompey supporter smack in the chops! He was duly carted off to a waiting meat wagon by the local constabulary-all that time, travel and money to land one punch,each to his own i suppose.The game came [Argyle lost 2-1],with about five minutes to go we noticed a mass exodus from the Fratton end-bit strange,we thought.The reason for it became clear a couple of minutes later when a hail of rocks and bricks came cascading from the alley way at the back of the away end-pretty scary but the cops eventually cleared the Pompey hordes without anyone being badly injured,just the odd cut or bruise.They must have kept some stones in reserve though,because when we got back to the bus there was not a single window left in it.  Had to travel all the way home in a windowless bus in the pissing rain,not much fun i can assure you.Mad times.

'Twould be headline news these days, something like that, probably barely made print back then.

Historical context makes the stupid juvenile posturing of today's spotty 'wannabes' all the more laughable.

I've been thinking about those days quite a bit lately what with the Hillsborough inquest starting. I only started going in the mid 80's, the 70's I accept were far worse by all accounts. Not going to claim I got involved in anything, I was far too young, but all the context of just how dangerous going to a football match actually was at times has been lost.

Unless you went to matches regularly back in the day experiencing today's sanitised plastic atmospheres will give you no perspective of how perilous the experience could be if it kicked off, or if you got caught in the wrong road or train at the wrong time. Just the look of the grounds were intimidating, fences, spikes pointing inwards or those rolling plastic spiked 'doughnut' things and the heavy nets they used to put round the away section sometimes to stop missiles........and that's before the fans have even entered. Drunk and aggressive, so much more drunk and aggressive than would be tolerated now. Charging and consequent crushing was common-place and considered 'a bit of a laugh' in bigger crowds (I remember England v Holland just before Euro '88, fekkin scary!). Then there was the obligatory 20 minutes wait to be let out for 'safety reasons', all well intentioned i'm sure but just seemed to allow the opposition time to organise themselves.

Not casting judgement on anyone who might've 'got involved', it seems perverse but it was actually quite fun in it's own way but so 'of it's time'. It was normal. Hillsborough wasn't isolated, it could've happened at any big game, nearly did at Highbury when we went there.

I just hope that context is fully given in the inquest, if today's health and safety culture is applied retrospectively the poor sod who opened the gate or the match commander who was between a rock and a hard place will get hung out to dry and the fans (as a group) will be considered blameless paying customers. NOT individually of course for the 96 who died but I hope the general fan attitude and behaviour that day, the norm 'of it's time', isn't just casually overlooked.

It wasn't for Heysel but those inquests occurred nearer the event, before the compensation and health & safety cultures existed.

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

hairy j wrote:

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

Where did anyone "glorify" it? Just describing it as it was.

Greenskin wrote:

hairy j wrote:

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

Where did anyone "glorify" it? Just describing it as it was.

Erm... on this here thread. I don't think having all the windows of your coach smashed in is actually LOL funny. That's called a 'crime'.

hairy j wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

hairy j wrote:

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

Where did anyone "glorify" it? Just describing it as it was.

Erm... on this here thread. I don't think having all the windows of your coach smashed in is actually LOL funny. That's called a 'crime'.

There's a big difference between glorifying the incident and engaging in a bit of 34 years later retrospective gallows humour about the situation we found ourselves in.It was fecking scary in Fratton Park that night and fecking uncomfortable on that coach and in no circumstances could they be called glory situations.My advice to you would be to try and read the shades and nuances of a post with a bit more understanding before you draw incorrect conclusions-if you want to know what my thoughts are on that particular era,there is a thread somewhere on ATD where i debated with Lord Tisdale the merits and demerits of those times-can't be arsed to look for it but i can assure you that my expressed opinion wasn't especially rose tinted.

hairy j wrote:

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

It's called being young. Some of us were young back then and we have grown up.

The irony in Hairy telling someone to "grow up" really takes the biscuit.

hairy j wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

hairy j wrote:

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

Where did anyone "glorify" it? Just describing it as it was.

Erm... on this here thread. I don't think having all the windows of your coach smashed in is actually LOL funny. That's called a 'crime'.

Trump the coach being bricked - our train was done coming back from Eastville on a train that for some reason the police hearded us into at Stapleton Road, was certainly lively in the 70s!!

Hugh Watt wrote:

hairy j wrote:

You old people always seem to glorify violence from the 1970s and 80s as some golden era. Erm... grow up.

It's called being young. Some of us were young back then and we have grown up.

I was young back in the terrace days. I don't think I ever did a LOL when there was trouble. I've always seen it as a needless part of the game. It's odd that people from another part of the country who support the opposition can't arrive, attend and leave safely and enjoy a day out.

Different strokes Hairy. I was a teenager in the 80's and loved the tension. I was young, the world was exciting and football was edgy at times (for every memory here there are 20 games at home to Barnsley where the crowd was sub 4k and there were less than 50 away fans). Sometimes as youngsters we're drawn to danger and excitement.

I never got involved...I was far too pretty for that but I loved to be part of a crowd for the first time in my life. Away was best but I remember the first of the Leeds visits in the 1980's and a whole group of Leeds fans at the gates to the Lyndhurst chanting "Yorkshire/Yorkshire" incessantly. Behind the safety of the gate it was a buzz.

In hindsight of course it was only heading one way. Remarkably for today's fan games were very rarely all ticket. If anyone was at Bristol City for the 1-1 cup game they'll have seen Hillsborough and taken time to think how close we came to injury that day. I don't think my feet touched the floor for 90 minutes. Then there's Arsenal where we took any number of fans (I believe that we hold the record for the largest away attendance at both Highbury and the Emirates).

As a father of two now am I glad that football has changed?....yep, but I'm bloody lucky to have experienced those days. Christ on a bike I even had a guy in his 20's tell me to sit down at an away match this year when Argyle were taking a corner.

Sit down...  

One of the benefits of being as shite as we are is the fact that some grounds still have terracing.

 

The 96 who died at Hillsborough were entirely innocent victims of both crass organisational ineptitude beforehand and, at best, systemic institutional disregard or, at worst, extremely high level conspiracy, afterwards. Hillsborough was about so much more that "somebody opening a gate". Whatever the prevailing contemporary culture was this was a predictable and avoidable catastrophe.

A previous tragedy in the Leppings Lane End was narrowly averted, more through luck than judgement, involving Spurs fans during their semi-final v Wolves in 1981.



The FA should never have awarded the tie to Hillsborough in the first instance.

Sheffield Wednesday should never have accepted another semi-final after the '81 game.

Sheffield council should have vetoed the tie being played there because Hillsborough did not have a safety certificate.

And all of that was well before matchday.

Once the tragedy had happened South Yorkshire police perpetrated, and were nearly successful in their attempts, a huge cover-up involving evidence being lost, amended and just not gathered in the first place. All aided and abetted by sctions of the press that was complicit in spreading lies and smearing the dead and a government, well.. several governments, which either did not want to know at all or who looked the other way as the judiciary meekly fell in to line and failed to act in the interests of natural justice.

Hillsborough is a systemic scandal of massive proportions with many, many people complicit either through action or inaction.

And it is an utter disgrace that it has taken 25 years before any of this has been taken seriously.

Good to see all Saturday kick offs being delayed until 15.07 to allow a minutes silence from 15.06. it's the least we can do to remember them.