Financial Growth - South stand

Been a bit of talk over on pasoti about the rebuilding of the South Stand/Grandstand. Just wanted to give my opinions on the subject

The South Stand is the stadiums generator, and I assume that James Brent will want the the generator to be functioning seven days a week creating income as opposed to the current once every two weeks. For the club to take measures to ensure financial growth, then rebuilding the South Stand is the option it has to take, things such as offices, gym's, conference/event rooms would all supply income to the club everyday and then there is the obvious ticket sale income on the saturday.

This measure will surely be taken in the long run but it cant be a priority now, the club should firstly undertake a period of stability to bring things back down to earth and start functioning like a normal club again. These things take time and things such as a new board, a chairman, maybe a manager and suitable form on the pitch, these items need to be adressed before we can begin to grow financially through big changes to how Home Park is run.

For a club so badly damaged in the last couple of years, financial stability for the staff, players and the club in general is so important. Now is not the time for a new 5 year plan, I really cant see us having the need for premier league stadium expansion anytime soon. Therefore capacity increase is not very important when we are only managing crowds of 6000 as things stand.

The South Stand will eventually be developed, I have no doubt about that, however when is a different question, when is the development really needed? We currently sit in league 2 with one of the biggest stadiums in the league, why the need for expansion at the moment? Promotion should be an aim for next season if we go down or stay up, and only once that has occured should we start planning for financial growth by making changes to Home Park stadium.

Under James Brent (and without Peter Ridsdale) I am looking forward to a future of financial success at the club, something that has not been experienced by Pilgrims in a long time. The road ahead is a long one therefore why rush, why not sit back and enjoy the ride, and enjoy the benefits of being a stable football club.

Ticket income is the first thing that has to be improved, this can be done through a change in our fortunes on the pitch. Then things such as advertising, merchandising and stadium expansion can become significant factors in how the club draws in income. Financial stability is more important than possible 'risky' financial growth, for the time being anyway.

Just my thoughts on the matter, thanks.

First things first, let's get the student accommodation hotel built first.

GOB wrote:

First things first, let's get the student accommodation hotel built first.

Trust you to make me giggle

Cobi Budge wrote:

Been a bit of talk over on pasoti about the rebuilding of the South Stand/Grandstand. Just wanted to give my opinions on the subject

The South Stand is the stadiums generator, and I assume that James Brent will want the the generator to be functioning seven days a week creating income as opposed to the current once every two weeks. For the club to take measures to ensure financial growth, then rebuilding the South Stand is the option it has to take, things such as offices, gym's, conference/event rooms would all supply income to the club everyday and then there is the obvious ticket sale income on the saturday.

This measure will surely be taken in the long run but it cant be a priority now, the club should firstly undertake a period of stability to bring things back down to earth and start functioning like a normal club again. These things take time and things such as a new board, a chairman, maybe a manager and suitable form on the pitch, these items need to be adressed before we can begin to grow financially through big changes to how Home Park is run.

For a club so badly damaged in the last couple of years, financial stability for the staff, players and the club in general is so important. Now is not the time for a new 5 year plan, I really cant see us having the need for premier league stadium expansion anytime soon. Therefore capacity increase is not very important when we are only managing crowds of 6000 as things stand.

The South Stand will eventually be developed, I have no doubt about that, however when is a different question, when is the development really needed? We currently sit in league 2 with one of the biggest stadiums in the league, why the need for expansion at the moment? Promotion should be an aim for next season if we go down or stay up, and only once that has occured should we start planning for financial growth by making changes to Home Park stadium.

Under James Brent (and without Peter Ridsdale) I am looking forward to a future of financial success at the club, something that has not been experienced by Pilgrims in a long time. The road ahead is a long one therefore why rush, why not sit back and enjoy the ride, and enjoy the benefits of being a stable football club.

Ticket income is the first thing that has to be improved, this can be done through a change in our fortunes on the pitch. Then things such as advertising, merchandising and stadium expansion can become significant factors in how the club draws in income. Financial stability is more important than possible 'risky' financial growth, for the time being anyway.

Just my thoughts on the matter, thanks.

Couple of points...You bang on about any potential new South Stand being the Clubs "stadium generator" as you put it. You also allude to the fact that any new development should include offices,Gymnasiums,conference and event rooms...not to mention Brents Hotel.
You then go to the opposite end of the spectrum and say that we should be aiming low for a 15,000 seaterish stadium ..i presume ?
How the hell do you expect to get all that into any new development?

I am confused as to your point there Punchdrunk.

Are you suggesting we aim for a stadium bigger than 15 000?

Developing the South stand by adding Hotels/Conference/ gyms would not actually have to mean that the capacity of the South Stand would be increased.

i would worry about trying to fill the stadium than talk about building a new stand atm. The stand can wait for the moment its not high on my list of areas to sort out atm. Besides i think the council have to sort the roads out around home park as its going to be a nightmare more than it is now to get in and out of that area.

"why not sit back and enjoy the ride" Sounds rather familiar.

Good post Cobi.I notice the organic growthers are resurfacing slowly but surely after the abject failure of the first manifestation.I'm not against redevelopment of the south stand,far from it-in the long term,it has to be redeveloped and hopefully a ground with a capacity of 25000 [with room for expansion] will result.As you say,this seems a very long way off at the moment and the old arguments about the balancing act required between on/off field priorities will doubtless take place in due course.In the meantime,matters must be addressed on the pitch and survival,then progress, must be the order of the day.Mr Brent undoubtedly has plans for developing the area behind the stand,it will be very interesting to see what those are and in what way any new facilities will benefit the club in terms of future revenue.One aspect that was clearly absent in the arguments of the organics last time was any sort of forecast of how much revenue new facilities would generate-i failed to see how,without some sort of guideline in this regard,any opinion could be formed as to the merit of the "property must be the way forward" mantra.Hopefully this will be addressed in a more professional way this time to enable a balanced judgement to be made.All sorts of things cloud the issue of course,the pay back of outstanding monies o staff,the split of revenue between JB's companies and the club,PCC involvement-should all be very interesting.

Cobi Budge wrote:

I am confused as to your point there Punchdrunk.

Are you suggesting we aim for a stadium bigger than 15 000?

Developing the South stand by adding Hotels/Conference/ gyms would not actually have to mean that the capacity of the South Stand would be increased.

Yes

20 or 21,000 imho

Cobi Budge wrote:

I am confused as to your point there Punchdrunk.

Are you suggesting we aim for a stadium bigger than 15 000?

Developing the South stand by adding Hotels/Conference/ gyms would not actually have to mean that the capacity of the South Stand would be increased.

I aint no expert in modern day building but if you are suggesting that a structure in similar (or less as you insinuate) to the size of the Lyndhurst will hold what you say then you are seriously deluded.
Still.....best of luck in your new 12,000 seater stadium, if we do ever come good you and the rest of the Jester hat and green wig brigade can sit safe in the knowlegde that you are in the company of all the other "praaaaper fans" and the part timers are locked out.
Your lack of vision is typical of this clubs historical failures.
Tringy got it spot on.....in the land of the blind the one eyed Aviva boy is king!!

There's no point building lots of gyms as part of the new stand. There's going to be plenty of that stuff in The Life Centre. Much better to include some sort of deal where a night in the hotel (if it gets built) comes with free 24 hr access to The Life Centre's facilities and in return users of the Life Centre could be encouraged to use the bars/restaurants attached to the ground (or the hotel if it gets built).

Nor can I believe that the council will allow student accommodation to be built there so that, I reckon, is a complete non-starter.

The time to build a stand is when crowds are low so that the capacity, i.e. revenue, lost during the build is not such a significant factor in the overall costing and the excess capacity is there to be exploited when the good times return.

If we are going to aim at a 15000 capacity then we might as well not bother at all and give up right now.

Stability is bunk. If you are not moving forward then you are falling ever further behind as our recent history proves. There is no reason whatsoever to meekly accept our lot or talk ourselves down when there's plenty of people about who will do that all too willingly for us.

First things first though. We are still in the heart of a crisis and we need to divert all of our attention and resources on staying up this season.

Then we need to get all proactive, dynamic and innovative and actually get stuff done.

15000? That would be absolutely typical of Argo - small time thinking, perochial, happy to be lower league, sell all our best players, enjoy the ride, trust in stapes brent. What sort of signal would a poxy 15,000 capacity stadium send out to fans brent SHOULD be trying to win back? All they'll think is "Argo not planning any rise up the divisions anytime soon then"

25,000 capacity MINIMUM FFS!!!!!!!!!!

Cobi Budge wrote:

I am confused as to your point there Punchdrunk.

Are you suggesting we aim for a stadium bigger than 15 000?

Developing the South stand by adding Hotels/Conference/ gyms would not actually have to mean that the capacity of the South Stand would be increased.

Cobi, you can't seriously beleive 15,000 is anywhere near adequate? We averaged more than that in our first season in the CHampionship, and in our last promotion season regularly sold ou 20k+. 15,000 is utterly ridiculous.

Unless it gets made out of Lego or Brent decides he wants elaborate topiaries in each of the corners instead of seats, I don't see how a redeveloped South Stand can do anything but increase the stadium's capacity to 20k+

If we do manage to stay up, hopefully things might begin to move on the redevelopment front. In fact I'd be very surprised if JB doesn't have some plans drawn up already - must surely have been part of his feasibility study (or whatever they're called) before he bought the club.

The capacity of the three "new" stands is already 12,000.

we need a decent concert venue the pavillions is awful although they do attract some good artists but a bigger venue with better acoutiscs is needed also an ice rink would be quite nice and putting my tin hat on we do need another cinema complex to give vue some competition i went in reel the other day and it is very tired and outdated although half the price

speculate to acumalate (?), with partnerships with the life centre, marjon and the 'hotel'. no use building redundant gyms etc if there are already quality outlets on your doorstep.

maybe a jester hat emporium, complete with sweatshop, would work better!

Wouldn't Football League status be the first goal?

All this talk of massive development is very very premature in my opinion. I think we will be staring at the Mayflower for a good few seasons yet. To develop a ground that is attracting (at best) 6000 each home game would be a total folly. Spend the money on a decent team first. Then the attraction of good football will bring more revenue. Does that make me an 'organic growth' person? Then I must be. It's worked in my business.

Cerbera wrote:

Wouldn't Football League status be the first goal?

All this talk of massive development is very very premature in my opinion. I think we will be staring at the Mayflower for a good few seasons yet. To develop a ground that is attracting (at best) 6000 each home game would be a total folly. Spend the money on a decent team first. Then the attraction of good football will bring more revenue. Does that make me an 'organic growth' person? Then I must be. It's worked in my business.

No,that makes you exactly the opposite of an organic growther.This was the argument last time-the OG's wanted development of the stadium and facilities as a priority,in the belief that the revenue generated would make Argyle into a financially competitive CCC club,while some of us thought that the football should come first and the facilities could be regenerated with the extra income that would accrue from a successful team.Blackpool would be a classic example of a club not requiring massive gates or ground development in order to be successful,their success came through the relatively modest backing of Oyston and his Latvian chum.

argyledj wrote:

we need a decent concert venue the pavillions is awful although they do attract some good artists but a bigger venue with better acoutiscs is needed also an ice rink would be quite nice and putting my tin hat on we do need another cinema complex to give vue some competition i went in reel the other day and it is very tired and outdated although half the price

That's the key to this!

PCC are aching to knock down the Pavilions but can't until there's at least an idea on the horizon to replace it and Brent is a very good friend to a few that sit on PCC. It would also fall nicely into the policies of building on Central Park and would help fill an otherwise empty hotel if the club isn't a success.

The size of the stand will be down to cost, not requirement. If Brent thinks he can get away with a tiny little thing that will blight our future for decades he will build a tiny little thing with the full backing of one or two fans organisations using the organic argument, Brent is a businessman after all.

The worst case scenario for Brent, or for any other owner/developer would be a club in the Championship where a large development would be required.

We need to get out of Brent as much as we can whilst he's here, once this lot is complete Brent will be gone like a shot and we won't get a second chance to build on this plot or to shape the future of the club and we'll end up with a mish-mash of student accommodation, a hotel, concert arena with a tiny mini (Torquay style) stand.

I have a funny feeling this little lot is going to kick off very quickly, there will never be a cheaper time to build then now and even in this depressing financial climate Brent wouldn't have a money problem(?). The only question is will people be able to afford to use the facilities once it's all built?

Newbie here

Quote

That's the key to this!

PCC are aching to knock down the Pavilions but can't until there's at least an idea on the horizon to replace it and Brent is a very good friend to a few that sit on PCC. It would also fall nicely into the policies of building on Central Park and would help fill an otherwise empty hotel if the club isn't a success.

This is what I am afraid off.

I would like the new pavilion; ice-ring and a new cinema built in the Colin Campbell Court car park to bring life back to the City Centre leave central Park alone accept for the new south stand with his hotel

TGWU

Tgwu wrote:

Newbie here

Quote

That's the key to this!

PCC are aching to knock down the Pavilions but can't until there's at least an idea on the horizon to replace it and Brent is a very good friend to a few that sit on PCC. It would also fall nicely into the policies of building on Central Park and would help fill an otherwise empty hotel if the club isn't a success.

This is what I am afraid off.

I would like the new pavilion; ice-ring and a new cinema built in the Colin Campbell Court car park to bring life back to the City Centre leave central Park alone accept for the new south stand with his hotel

TGWU

Welcome to ATD Tgwu, enjoy the freedoms!

You're right of course, why build on the only decent green area we have when the west of town has become a dump? - I don't know this but I would guess that the west of town is listed for retail and not accommodation and I think accommodation for students will be the hidden agenda among the hotel, stand etc. Plymouth University runs this town, not PCC.

Tgwu wrote:

Newbie here

Quote

That's the key to this!

PCC are aching to knock down the Pavilions but can't until there's at least an idea on the horizon to replace it and Brent is a very good friend to a few that sit on PCC. It would also fall nicely into the policies of building on Central Park and would help fill an otherwise empty hotel if the club isn't a success.

This is what I am afraid off.

I would like the new pavilion; ice-ring and a new cinema built in the Colin Campbell Court car park to bring life back to the City Centre leave central Park alone accept for the new south stand with his hotel

TGWU

that would be a good site while were on the subject of development what on earth is going on in milbay? some smart flats surrounded by some dumps of old industrial buildinds and a few car delearships, i certainly would not want to shell out a couple of hundred grand to live opposite a bail hostel it just seems to sum up plymouth a typical half arsed affair...it could of been a great area if they had made more of the port and attracted cruise ships ect you could of had a vibrant area with hotels new concert venue multiplex and regenerated a wasted area instead now it just looks half wasted.

Millbay can only improve, only Plymouth could spend years filling in a dock then realise it would make a perfect marina and start dredging it out again.

Now is exactly the time you should be looking to replace that hideous eyesore, no not Napoleon, the Mayflower Tip.

Cheap finance available to PCC, 2.6% over 10 years, building firms crying out for business who could be screwed on design and construction costs, an apparent endless demand for hotel rooms and conferencing facilities, you could have a self financing build with continuous revenue streams for the future.

Quit worrying about the capacity, you are never going to need the plastic seats you have already got, you should be able to get the ground finished for zero cash outlay, old Harry Potter likes that kind of deal, then, if by a stroke of luck you draw Man Utd, or even better Exeter City in the FA Cup, I put us in front of Man Utd on the basis you will only need to win one game to stand a chance of drawing us.

Oddly intelligent post that ^^^^ for a Greek.