While I am at it

I can see this happening to the Civic Centre development.

Peggy wrote:

I think this clears up the questions about Oldway. The comment underneath makes for disturbing reading.

Interesting reading!

From the comments section wrote:

This is a disgraceful situation which has been allowed to develop & the details should be made public now. The cost of this fiasco to the council tax payer should also be public knowledge, this should include the cost of 24/7 security which has been carried out by contractors, the cost of heating this enormous building over the winter plus the cost of removing five large fallen trees which would have been the responsibility of Akkeron had the contract been signed last October as originally planned. In the meantime this Historic listed building is allowed to fall into ruins, since October 2013 the roof over the once beautiful ballroom has developed a leak bringing down part of the ceiling & decorative frieze, the water is now lifting the dance floor which will soon be beyond repair, the curtains to this room are drawn closed at all times to prevent the public from seeing this. The lead flashings on the South side of the house have been dislodged and some large sections are missing allowing water ingress to the upper floors causing countless thousands of pounds worth of damage. This must stop now & the people responsible named, Torbay Council tax payers should not be expected to pay for incompetence!

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Brent has the local councils by the balls and he is starting to squeeze them!

knecht wrote:

And on January 4th the local paper referred to work being finally expected to start. I suppose, on a technicality, if you put in a trench or similar then the work has started.

Ha ha, indeed. A friend of mine had to start work on his project a couple of years ago before planning permission was about to lapse. He notified the council, put in one land drain and got the council to check it. Nothing else has been done in the ensuing 20 months. A common practice. He might go on to finish the project, he might not, but in the meantime he has to keep the value of the project on paper.

Yes, but in the mean time poor Oldway is falling into a sad state of repair for such a high profile building, soon it will be fit only to knock down and then what?

Peggy wrote:

I think this clears up the questions about Oldway. The comment underneath makes for disturbing reading.

That certainly trumps my January 4th comment.

Akkeron may finally come up with the goods on all their projects. But the absence of transparency - especially in Argyle's case - inevitably leads to an atmosphere of mistrust. When there is a vacuum in this communication, all sorts of conjecture will rush in to fill it. It just doesn't look good. It seems to me that - however much some on ATD have gone OTT at times - the responsibility for that lies with the present board and their cheer-leaders.

The trouble is that most people are happy to see a winning team, a new stand (whatever the longer-term implications) and something to feel good about. They aren't interested in the minutiae of all this until it's too late. I've said all along that holding the present incumbents up for scrutiny is the right thing to do. Past mistakes have to teach lessons.

OnlyOdi wrote:

Wrong, probably completely fabricated information I'm afraid.

Sorry Knecht I was referring to the mansion and not the rest of the development. The info I was given came from a business friend in torbay who is normally spot on. So no onlyodi not totally fabricated I''m afraid.

That Oldway article certainly doesn't make good reading, and as usual it is the local council picking up the tab. This bunch seem no different from any other property developers of the past trying to squeeze every last ounce of blood and sitting on projects to up the pressure. Tory Central government act as the shoot beaters by bankrupting local councils, and then the money men move in to bag their sport on the cheap. I would imagine the screws are being turned as I type.

Development director Mark Jones of Akkeron said: "We are still discussing a couple of points, nothing major. These things are always complex and interlinked. We genuinely want to get on with this now and get the boxes ticked. It is quite complex in the way the house leases relate to the bowling club lease which relate to the mansion lease. wrote:

Talking of bowling greens, only last week us Friends of Victoria Park ( yes there are other parks under threat in Plymouth ) were informed that the Victoria Park bowling green is going to be closed for good. And then the Council wonder why they are unpopular. Of course, with new building projects in the offing right adjacent, one might just smell a rat. But foreshore no council would give up park bowling greens to a property developer. Never in a million years. They'll just leave it as a derelict bowling green, won't they ?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

OnlyOdi wrote:

Not Grahams information, the original posts information.

Was it? We'll see.

Thanks for effectively confirming the other bits though:

* James Brent reads ATD;
* club unable to pay February wages until Wrathall stepped in;
* "Newell" paid £4500 for Pasoti;
* FES money "late".

I don't know if James reads this, if I was him I would, or at least be getting a summery of here and the other site from someone, I would imagine he gets a PASOTI one from Newell and the President. He either cares and gets a...I wont say good since it's such a small section, but gets a brief outline of what the fans are thinking. Or doesn't care and gets to have a laugh. Win-Win. I highly doubt he's bothered by being called names.

& you're assuming Mr Wrathalls money is going on wages. Assumptions can be a dangerous game, especially when so far wide of the mark.

If Newell paid £4500 for Pasoti more fool him, i don't really care though. My club will be here whether PASOTI is or not. Same for ArgyleTD.
I suppose I should also state a I don't know about FES money, before I confirm a new fact by not commenting.

OnlyOdi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

OnlyOdi wrote:

Not Grahams information, the original posts information.

Was it? We'll see.

Thanks for effectively confirming the other bits though:

* James Brent reads ATD;
* club unable to pay February wages until Wrathall stepped in;
* "Newell" paid £4500 for Pasoti;
* FES money "late".

I don't know if James reads this, if I was him I would, or at least be getting a summery of here and the other site from someone, I would imagine he gets a PASOTI one from Newell and the President. He either cares and gets a...I wont say good since it's such a small section, but gets a brief outline of what the fans are thinking. Or doesn't care and gets to have a laugh. Win-Win. I highly doubt he's bothered by being called names.

& you're assuming Mr Wrathalls money is going on wages. Assumptions can be a dangerous game, especially when so far wide of the mark.

If Newell paid £4500 for Pasoti more fool him, i don't really care though. My club will be here whether PASOTI is or not. Same for ArgyleTD.
I suppose I should also state a I don't know about FES money, before I confirm a new fact by not commenting.

Let's just consider the "body language" here.

James. Mr Wrathall. Newell.

Sweet.

Very good Sir Frank  There's certainly no denying the body language, or the timing.

Winter Green wrote:

That Oldway article certainly doesn't make good reading, and as usual it is the local council picking up the tab. This bunch seem no different from any other property developers of the past trying to squeeze every last ounce of blood and sitting on projects to up the pressure. Tory Central government act as the shoot beaters by bankrupting local councils, and then the money men move in to bag their sport on the cheap. I would imagine the screws are being turned as I type.



Talking of bowling greens, only last week us Friends of Victoria Park ( yes there are other parks under threat in Plymouth ) were informed that the Victoria Park bowling green is going to be closed for good. And then the Council wonder why they are unpopular. Of course, with new building projects in the offing right adjacent, one might just smell a rat. But foreshore no council would give up park bowling greens to a property developer. Never in a million years. They'll just leave it as a derelict bowling green, won't they ?

You can't have Ocean City signs AND bowling greens, whatever next!

PatDunne wrote:

Winter Green wrote:

That Oldway article certainly doesn't make good reading, and as usual it is the local council picking up the tab. This bunch seem no different from any other property developers of the past trying to squeeze every last ounce of blood and sitting on projects to up the pressure. Tory Central government act as the shoot beaters by bankrupting local councils, and then the money men move in to bag their sport on the cheap. I would imagine the screws are being turned as I type.



Talking of bowling greens, only last week us Friends of Victoria Park ( yes there are other parks under threat in Plymouth ) were informed that the Victoria Park bowling green is going to be closed for good. And then the Council wonder why they are unpopular. Of course, with new building projects in the offing right adjacent, one might just smell a rat. But foreshore no council would give up park bowling greens to a property developer. Never in a million years. They'll just leave it as a derelict bowling green, won't they ?

You can't have Ocean City signs AND bowling greens, whatever next!

MPs' bid to save 'imperilled' bowling greens
A legal attempt to stop under-threat bowling greens from being closed to make way for private developers is to be debated by MPs.

John Woodcock, the Labour MP, will on Monday introduce a Bill which would give clubs protection against sell-offs through a new "community right to buy" which would allow people to band together, purchase a green and maintain it as a community asset.

It would enshrine in law the principle that any green being used by an existing team cannot be built over unless local bowlers actively agree to the sale.

The Bill, which has cross-party support, would also introduce safeguards against what Mr Woodcock calls "sharp practices" which see some owners who want to sell off lawns padlock gates in an attempt to convince council planners they are no longer being used.

The measure is being introduced under the "Ten Minute Rule" – which allows MPs to get issues on to the political agenda.


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They should be marketing bowling greens on the back of the interest in curling after the winter olympics. The only thing missing is the ice. And the sweeping. And the Norwegian men's team's trousers.

knecht wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I don't actually feel anything other than pity for James Brent.

He took bad advice from bad people and built a bad plan on it mostly in good faith.

All he needs is to get good advice from good people and devise a good plan and everybody will, genuinely (and I don't mean the this faux genuinism that has sucked him in so far) get behind a plan that is good for him, Argyle, the park and the city.

I'm sure Tudor is bending his ear in this regard already.

There is still hope because the 1.22 acres aren't yet signed over.

Maybe the AFT will be consulted. (Though I didn't agree at all with their proposal to build on Cottage Field.) It would take a big man to do that.

I think the WG's plans included the proposal to build on Cottage Field because they understood that all the other components of Akkeron's plans were required to fund the new stand. All they have done is to move things around a little to provide the room for the bigger grandstand, make the scheme more open and attractive to the general public, while keeping all the original components. I'm sure if they left out say the ice rink their plans wouldn't have included building on Cottage Field; but if the ice rink wasn't there, then an alternative location for it would have to have been found. Akkeron also wouldn't have had all the retail / food outlets available under the ice rink either. Probably meaning not enough funding etc. etc.

Remember the WG only had very limited information to work with and had to take certain things for granted.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Looks like the HHP plan is stuffed. Dead in the water. No funding for it.

Let's hope JB toddles off and comes back with a decent one.

Remember where you read this first.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Looks like the HHP plan is stuffed. Dead in the water. No funding for it.

Let's hope JB toddles off and comes back with a decent one.

It takes a while before these things come out but come out they do...

Tudor wrote:

projected income streams of £1 million + per year in extra revenue from the proposed development was ‘pushing it a lot'

Tudor wrote:

The plan for HHP was predicated a percentage of the funding being taken up by Plymouth City Council and Plymouth Community Health. Mr Evans stated that neither organisation was made aware of this predication by Akkeron at the time of planning permission being issued and had no way of knowing.

Tudor wrote:

Mr Evans confirmed that the plan for a hotel on Higher Home Park has fallen through and will not be happening.

Tudor wrote:

a hotel and studio school will not be part of any final design for HHP

"Got a link for that?" Yes I have.

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Also there is now no chance at all that HHP/Grandstand will help to meet the Balloon Payment (estimated at £1.9m).

Mr Brent it is now time for Plan B.

What is it?

And let us not forget confirmation from the AFT Tudor meeting that we were right about the Rent/Rates not being paid too.

Maybe they need a new strapline?

"Akkeron - private profits publicly funded to the fullest extent that the law allows."

But....but......they all looked him in the eyes !

Sighs wearily.......

Trouble is there's nothing to celebrate really Punch, Brent has got the deeds to the carpark, we don't own any assets and we as in us and James have the balloon payment coming up, if we go tits up again there is feck all to save us for going out of business, and what's the betting Brenty bails before the inevitable happens?

then out of business the club must go iggy, sorry but it perhaps should have done in 2011.