Are Argyle ready ?

Some big clubs in League 1 these days, would Brent be willing to fund the transfers needed to make argyle competitive in the higher league ?

No.

i cant see it happening this season and even if it did of course he wont we arent his main priority the clusterfuck is.

off topic but i wouldnt be shocked if he gets involved with the regeneration of the city centre that was in the paper today and in halftime too.

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

ejh wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

I partially agree but I'd say the thing with that is that some of those players you listed we only had for half a season and also it's always gonna make a team play below their full ability if their situation is so unstable that they don't know if they'll be in a job next week and they haven't been paid for months.

And remember we didn't get relegated because of the 10 point deduction, we got relegated because of our terrible disciplinary record that season.

There is not much difference between these divisions and once again we should have enough to stay clear of relegation. Based on our average attendance this season minus 2,000 for football creditor payments it still leaves us 14th in league one.

If all of that budget is given to Sheridan and he is able to use it wisely we should stay up comfortably.

Crude I know but how anyone can question if we're ready for it is beyond me.

ejh wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

If we had a decent manager we would have done.

Dick Trickle wrote:

There is not much difference between these divisions and once again we should have enough to stay clear of relegation. Based on our average attendance this season minus 2,000 for football creditor payments it still leaves us 14th in league one.

If all of that budget is given to Sheridan and he is able to use it wisely we should stay up comfortably.

Crude I know but how anyone can question if we're ready for it is beyond me.

Dick, how can we be ready for league one when according to Branston we are one of the lowest wage payers in league two ? unless Jimmy is prepared to significantly improve the budget(which i very much doubt he is) we'll struggle to stay in league one which in my opinion is a much stronger league than league two.

In which case Jack then the full budget net of football creditors costs are not being passed on or Sheridan has spread his wages too thinly amongst a bigger squad.

If the money is not being passed on then the answer remains the same - we're ready............but sadly Brent is not.

If the money has been passed on but it has been spent meaning that the wage offer to Branston was lower than others then that is a management issue.

The fact remains that the attendance figures alone should be enough to survive in league one.

Attendance figures are not a barometer for success in modern football Dick, how much the owner is willing to spend is what matters and even that doesn't guarantee success, but it helps.

Angry wrote:

ejh wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

If we had a decent manager we would have done.

Your comment is a matter of opinion but a matter of fact is that Argyle were nowhere near the relegation zone when administration came and all of those good players sold.Argyle were in 11th position and rising,having had some good wins [including victories over eventual promotees Southampton and Huddersfield] and nearing the play off zone rather than relegation.There is no possible way that with players like BWP,Noone,Mason etc,the club would have been in the slightest danger of "only narrowly avoiding relegation" in that season.Bit of a digression anyway-maybe we're getting slightly ahead of ourselves when even contemplating possible promotion this season,there's still a gap to be made up and plenty of potential pitfalls to overcome.

Jack Sheppard wrote:

Attendance figures are not a barometer for success in modern football Dick, how much the owner is willing to spend is what matters and even that doesn't guarantee success, but it helps.

I understand where you're coming from but the lower down the ladder you go the less this is an influence. Most clubs in L1 and L2 have no option but to try and live within their means and at this level attendance income is still the largest proportion of total income. There are of course exceptions, and that is the beauty of sport, but were we to be promoted we would have no excuses if we were relegated back again.

Should we somehow get promoted then the transient nature of the squad might act in our favour. Those that are talented and are out of contract, such as Reid, might want to stay and those that are not cut out for league one can be replaced. In the bottom two divisions those managers that have useful contacts within the game and who can work to an organised system seem to punch above their club's weight.

Greenskin wrote:

Angry wrote:

ejh wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

If we had a decent manager we would have done.

Your comment is a matter of opinion but a matter of fact is that Argyle were nowhere near the relegation zone when administration came and all of those good players sold.Argyle were in 11th position and rising,having had some good wins [including victories over eventual promotees Southampton and Huddersfield] and nearing the play off zone rather than relegation.There is no possible way that with players like BWP,Noone,Mason etc,the club would have been in the slightest danger of "only narrowly avoiding relegation" in that season.Bit of a digression anyway-maybe we're getting slightly ahead of ourselves when even contemplating possible promotion this season,there's still a gap to be made up and plenty of potential pitfalls to overcome.

Two ex players that were part of that squad both state he was one of the worse managers/coaches they ever had. So out of date with the game and did nothing but moan. With the squad he had before Brenda came to town he should have been higher than 11th for certain even come end of the season we still should have had enough to just escape relegation.

We would have pissed that league with BWP on his own.

Anyway this thread wil be pointless when we lose 0 4 at home to Morecombe.

nope

Yeah we're ready. Sooner we get out of this shite league the better. I don't think it'll take a lot of additions to improve the side to League One standard. If we're good enough to earn promotion to League One then we're ready to face a season in it.

we'd get chinned with this side.
better players would be needed and money to get them. we aren't going up so don't get excited.

argyle have spent 7 seasons at that level in the last 28years.

I disagree Elias. I think the Vale and Birmingham games proved we have a side that can be competitive at a higher level. On the reverse of that the Swindon match is a reality check that the league above will certainly be a harder one, but we were in a bit of a rut when that came about - even bleddy Blackman started!!

Money doesn't necessarily dictate everything in these leagues, as Branno pointed out in his Sky column. Being in a higher league would automatically attract better players, our crowd size and tidy stadium come into the equatition too. Apparently the club look after the players and their families very well too. I'm sure we could build a good competitive side for League One with little fuss.

ejh wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

Putting to one side the profligacy of money wasted by Argyle on non-footballing matters the fact is that we racked up debts of £17m largely by spending too much money on too many players (i.e. wages, signing-on fees and transfer fees) that the club's financial structuring (either in terms of revenue or "investment" by the board) was never going to be able to support is often over-looked by us as football fans. And we are by no means alone in this.

Any club that spends vast sums (all is relative) that it cannot support deserves pretty much all it gets when the wheels come off and we are no exception no matter how painful it has been to endure.

I agree that a club with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason and Bhasera playing for it should never have been relegated from Division 3 but many of those players should never have been here in the first place.

I realise that we all want to recruit the best players we can and to do that we need to offer competitive wages and decent contracts but, just as we did, many clubs commit to longish term deals that are unsustainable if they are relegated to get the players they think they need. This inflates the market hugely and heaps the pressure onto those who, and Yeovil spring to mind but even they might not be as virtuous as I think, insist on keeping to a recruitment policy that sits within their means. Yeovil will almost certainly be relegated this season as a direct result but their prospects for the future will be good and they will not have to endure the shame of not paying off their creditors (and let's not forget that one creditor is certain to be HMRC which means that Yeovil will be a club that is not being subsidised by the Treasury - or if you prefer by you and me).

Quite simply we were cheating when we committed to contracts with players like BWP that we were ultimately unable to support and the fact that we still have a club, of sorts, to support means that we got away with it.

We were a relatively minor example of this but Pompey were a spectacular one. Even with PL money there was no way at all that the 20000 fans who packed into Fratton Park each fortnight were able to do so without turning a blind eye to the fact that Defoe, Crouch and all the rest where there effectively under false pretences.

And nobody seems to care that those same Pompey players won them the FA cup when the real fact is that their management more or less stole it by cheating.

And yet still the cry goes up for more investment, new players, more of them and so on at every club! When will we as football fans ever learn and wise up?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Quite simply we were cheating when we committed to contracts with players like BWP that we were ultimately unable to support and the fact that we still have a club, of sorts, to support means that we got away with it.

Woah there Frankie boy. What's with the "we".
The failed private business known as PAFC was owned and run by a bunch of gambling businessmen, not us fans, so less of the guilt trip and less of the "we". These businessmen took no notice of us when they closed the Mayflower, so let's not invent the myth that they ran up huge debts due to pressure from the fans. That's the sort of tripe that Brent came up with, insinuating fans have no care for playing fairly.

And in any case, if the above is "cheating", then I would suggest 80% of Western governments of all hues are "cheating", and one might say half the mortgaged people in this country are "cheating" when buying their house. Argyle went belly up with debts only roughly 3 times their annual income. The problem lies with Limited company law that allows such leverage without the owners' money actually being capitalised properly, and hence vulnerable. It is that matter that encourages such reckless behaviour.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

ejh wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

I think we'd be comfortably financed enough to stay up- but realistically probably not much beyond that unless we financially restructure ourselves.

Larger attendances don't equal a larger budget, definitely not a better playing squad.

It would he a struggle IMO - I don't see much beyond 18th.

Last time without the 10 pt deduction we would have narrowly avoided relegation. That was with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason, Bhasera etc.

Putting to one side the profligacy of money wasted by Argyle on non-footballing matters the fact is that we racked up debts of £17m largely by spending too much money on too many players (i.e. wages, signing-on fees and transfer fees) that the club's financial structuring (either in terms of revenue or "investment" by the board) was never going to be able to support is often over-looked by us as football fans. And we are by no means alone in this.

Any club that spends vast sums (all is relative) that it cannot support deserves pretty much all it gets when the wheels come off and we are no exception no matter how painful it has been to endure.

I agree that a club with Summerfield, Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Bradley Wright Phillips, Carl Fletcher, Arnason and Bhasera playing for it should never have been relegated from Division 3 but many of those players should never have been here in the first place.

I realise that we all want to recruit the best players we can and to do that we need to offer competitive wages and decent contracts but, just as we did, many clubs commit to longish term deals that are unsustainable if they are relegated to get the players they think they need. This inflates the market hugely and heaps the pressure onto those who, and Yeovil spring to mind but even they might not be as virtuous as I think, insist on keeping to a recruitment policy that sits within their means. Yeovil will almost certainly be relegated this season as a direct result but their prospects for the future will be good and they will not have to endure the shame of not paying off their creditors (and let's not forget that one creditor is certain to be HMRC which means that Yeovil will be a club that is not being subsidised by the Treasury - or if you prefer by you and me).

Quite simply we were cheating when we committed to contracts with players like BWP that we were ultimately unable to support and the fact that we still have a club, of sorts, to support means that we got away with it.

We were a relatively minor example of this but Pompey were a spectacular one. Even with PL money there was no way at all that the 20000 fans who packed into Fratton Park each fortnight were able to do so without turning a blind eye to the fact that Defoe, Crouch and all the rest where there effectively under false pretences.

And nobody seems to care that those same Pompey players won them the FA cup when the real fact is that their management more or less stole it by cheating.

And yet still the cry goes up for more investment, new players, more of them and so on at every club! When will we as football fans ever learn and wise up?

So what do you suggest then? Trust in youth? oh no because anyone good we develop can be taken with little compensation to us! Fact is we have to invest in order to put out a competent football side because that is football these days. if you don't want that why bother?

I really don't think we have to invest to put out a competent football side in THIS division though.

I don't know if you ever buy an Argyle matchday programme but if you do look at the squad lists on the back of it. The opposition almost exclusively have a much smaller squad than we do. And the inevitable argument after that is that we're only signing loans and freebiess taking up all that room. Well, so do most sides. It's very rare in League Two to have a signing that ISN'T either a loan or someone who's been cast off by another side for no transfer fee. They exist but are in the minority.

The overwhelming majority are squads much smaller than ours made out of the same type of player except for your likes of Chesterfield and Scunthorpe at the top. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get out of this league spending the amount we are (ie, working on about 5-6k crowds once you take out historic debt). That's why, although I sound like a broken record, I don't accept this line that we have one of the smallest budgets in the league. If we do then Sheridan must keep some pretty handy substance to slip into players' drinks during the negotiations as there's no way we'd have a squad as large and as full of respectable players for this level as we do (relatively speaking of course) if we DID have one of the smallest budgets in this division. I don't care what Branston said- that's probably what we told him when we offered him his contract.