Anelka

Marina Hyde hits nail on head with Anelka...

Guardian - Marina Hyde

Personally there is nothing wrong with quenelle. He was a fine rugby player for wales and his postcode lottery adverts are well directed.

It's a strange story that I don't think anyone in the English media can actually understand without knowing the context of the gesture.

Some are steadfast in stating its anti-semitic origins, others say it is anti-establishment and a symbol of the young and disheartened youth fed up with government.

She does a standard 'let's look how Hitler would have dealt with you' diatribe, but Anelka doesn't have a swastika on his chest. Even if he is anti semitic, which he vehemently denies, he can be a type of anti semite that wasn't present in the corridors of power in Nazi Germany from 1933 - 1945.

Such as a Palestinian sympathiser, for example. Or an afficionado of Roman history.

So sorry, that article didn't hit the nail on the head for me. It is a journo trying to be opinionated on something she doesn't know nearly enough about, which I must confess I don't either.

When West Brom and the FA are consulting professors of cultural studies to find out exactly what this gesture means and the significance of it, there is clearly a lot of ignorance flying around.

Many in France are incensed by the gesture. Others love it for its pure offensiveness and for the publicity generated at the flaws of the government.

For example if some comedians like Stewart Lee started inciting a notorious salute to stick two fingers up to the Cameron Clegg government, and more and more people started doing it, how can you judge its context?

I don't see the problem if he says sorry lets move on.

Very rich man anelka, regular moves out of contract.

Elias wrote:

Very rich man anelka, regular moves out of contract.

a fine won't hurt him then

I'd Salute him



ps

if your reading this horatio, thats how you rally the troops

Crap lefty article on a complete non story, who the feck knew what a quenelle was, who the feck cares now they do?

Nicholas Anelka  ? anti-system ? ...... ha. I too will wait with baited breath. Sadly, I doubt we will hear the exact bull uttered by Anelka in his defence. His act on the pitch reminded me of Norris's ill thought handcuff celebration in support of his jailed child killing mate. Still, that's footballers for you. Not the brightest bunch.
Dieudonne is a big issue in France, especially as he has found a way to tug the race issue with both left and right. That's dangerous. European society is on a hair trigger these days, and who can blame it, given the recent racist history. Not much to make a joke about.

footballers seem to thrive on hand gestures or goal scoring celebration gestures or shirt lifting( in the nicest possible way)...its their modus operandi...as for Dieudonne very big in france at this moment with a big following...

Anyone else think that this Dieudonne bloke looks like Lenny Henry?

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Anyone else think that this Dieudonne bloke looks like Lenny Henry?

Now you mention it he kinda does  

There was a photo the other day of him and not knowing what it was all about I thought it was Henry.

Anelka knew what he was doing, the match was being broadcast live in France. It is not relevant whether people in the UK knew what he was doing, what he did is a symbol of religious hate.

Anelka made this gesture on 28th December. On 20th December new charges were brought against Dieudonne for reminding a Jewish journalist about gas ovens and in November he was fined for a song deriding the holocaust. That doesn't even come close to some of the photo's of people doing the quenelle outside synagogue's etc.

If Dieudonne posted his views on this forum he would be banned. Banned from ATD! FFS you've got to be way outside of normal society if you get banned here.

If nothing else Anelka has certainly brought UK media attention to his good friend Dieudonne. I have to be honest I had never heard of him before the goal celebration and the only quenelle I've ever known is the fuquenelle. I have a number of relatives in France, one of my cousins was in London last weekcand I spoke to her about the situation there.

Under the laws of the Republic no question of religion is allowed to he asked in government census, so all figures are estimated but there are between 5 and 6 million people of Muslim descent in France. It is estimated that around one third are *practising', making Islam the second religion of France behind Catholics. Immigration from French North Africa is a massive political subject there, with the French far right achieving around 20% support. The percentage of young french arab unemployed in urban areas is huge and the radical islamists are playing on it. Recent estimates put the number of active islamist fundamentalists operating in france at well over 6 figures. It seems that the fundamentalists have targetted the Jewish population not only because of the obvious hatred but because politically those on the far right will be less likely to fight against attacks on Jews than attacks on other area of French society. Apparently there has been at least one attack per month on synagogues, jewish cemeteries or people wearing a yarmulka over the past couple of years. There less than half a million people of jewish descent in the country.

Dieudonne and his quenelle are political - they are anti establishment, speaking to the disenfranchised arab youth. But anti-semitism is deeply rooted in what they see as their struggle against the system. The two cannot be seperated. It is totally unbelievable that Anelka has no knowledge of this. His quenelle salute broadcast live across France was a deliberate symbol of support for a movement which has anti semitism at it's very core.

West Brom as a club should be ashamed. It does not take very much research to understand what Anelka has done and it's meaning. The Board of Directors of the football club should have immediately made Anelka unavailable for selection, fined him for bringing the club into disrepute and worked with the FA until an official punishment was announced. By doing nothing they have list their shirt sponsor, alienated a (small) section of their fanhase and shown themselves to be selfish and irresponsible.

Pokesdown wrote:

Anelka knew what he was doing, the match was being broadcast live in France. It is not relevant whether people in the UK knew what he was doing, what he did is a symbol of religious hate.

Anelka made this gesture on 28th December. On 20th December new charges were brought against Dieudonne for reminding a Jewish journalist about gas ovens and in November he was fined for a song deriding the holocaust. That doesn't even come close to some of the photo's of people doing the quenelle outside synagogue's etc.

If Dieudonne posted his views on this forum he would be banned. Banned from ATD! FFS you've got to be way outside of normal society if you get banned here.

You have no clue what was actually in his head when he did it so don't purport to, it makes you look a fool. You may well think it is a symbol of religious hate, plenty of other people don't, including the top Fourby in Paris, I place far more weight in his opinion than yours, come to think about it he probably knows more about football as well.

Every Prem game is live in France, Spain, Thailand, the US and even here if you know where to look for it.

I have heard a Jewish comic make jokes about the ovens, a black comic make jokes about KKK hangings in the South, a female comic make a joke about the taste of going down on a woman with a kidney complaint, so this guy is obnoxious, big fecking deal, Blair started a fecking war because of his religious beliefs, get on his back.

The fact that Tracky got banned on here and that this dick wad would as well says more about this forum than them.

People hold views that others don't like, get over it, if we in this country can tolerate Imams spreading jihadist propaganda inciting their young to kill Brits then why the fook are you so incensed because some gobby twat doesn't like what he perceives the Jews to have done to 'his people'?

Wouldn't it be nice if sport could be totally detached from anything Political or racial, Sadly that's never going to happen is it.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

If nothing else Anelka has certainly brought UK media attention to his good friend Dieudonne. I have to be honest I had never heard of him before the goal celebration and the only quenelle I've ever known is the fuquenelle. I have a number of relatives in France, one of my cousins was in London last weekcand I spoke to her about the situation there.

Under the laws of the Republic no question of religion is allowed to he asked in government census, so all figures are estimated but there are between 5 and 6 million people of Muslim descent in France. It is estimated that around one third are *practising', making Islam the second religion of France behind Catholics. Immigration from French North Africa is a massive political subject there, with the French far right achieving around 20% support. The percentage of young french arab unemployed in urban areas is huge and the radical islamists are playing on it. Recent estimates put the number of active islamist fundamentalists operating in france at well over 6 figures. It seems that the fundamentalists have targetted the Jewish population not only because of the obvious hatred but because politically those on the far right will be less likely to fight against attacks on Jews than attacks on other area of French society. Apparently there has been at least one attack per month on synagogues, jewish cemeteries or people wearing a yarmulka over the past couple of years. There less than half a million people of jewish descent in the country.

Dieudonne and his quenelle are political - they are anti establishment, speaking to the disenfranchised arab youth. But anti-semitism is deeply rooted in what they see as their struggle against the system. The two cannot be seperated. It is totally unbelievable that Anelka has no knowledge of this. His quenelle salute broadcast live across France was a deliberate symbol of support for a movement which has anti semitism at it's very core.

West Brom as a club should be ashamed. It does not take very much research to understand what Anelka has done and it's meaning. The Board of Directors of the football club should have immediately made Anelka unavailable for selection, fined him for bringing the club into disrepute and worked with the FA until an official punishment was announced. By doing nothing they have list their shirt sponsor, alienated a (small) section of their fanhase and shown themselves to be selfish and irresponsible.

See, you were doing pretty well there right up to the point where you started ascribing specific motive.

France has it problems in waiting, which country doesn't? But hanging them around the neck of some dopey footballer is just playing into the hands of the media whoreage.

No fecker over here, including myself, had ever heard of this tw@, if the media had not blown this non story up out of all proportion we should mostly all still be blissfully ignorant of him and his views. This is a French social issue, not a football issue, spreading the word is divisive. I detest the way the Jewish financial establishment has fooked up the world through its control of the Fed and the way it is fomenting unrest in the Middle East, I particularly dislike the way the IDF rolls into Gaza and Beirut lobbing white phosphorous onto schools, the difference is that I do not hold it against individuals on the basis that they are Jewish, plenty of nutbags about though and they do, the amplification of this story will have an negative effect on some poor saps life somewhere down the road. Some muslim loving, fascist, nutbag will desecrate a Jewish symbol or far worse injure or kill a Jew, the State, whichever it might be, will crack down on a whole community in response which will in turn lead to more nutbags climbing on to buses in London and elsewhere with a view to blowing innocent people to bits. It's a cycle of violence which can only be exacerbated by the oxygen of publicity. France has pretty much kept a lid on it so far in terms of overt violence but I rather suspect MILF Marine will do considerably better than 20% next time up.

So worst case Anelka doesn't like Jews which lumps him in with a large proportion of the muslims I have ever known, doesn't mean he intends to go out and beat up the first one he come across, I don't think he should be vilified just because his occupation presents him with a higher profile than most, he's a footballer not an elected politician, he, like Tracky, can hold whatever view he likes.

What is that gesture ejh?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Pokesdown wrote:

Anelka knew what he was doing, the match was being broadcast live in France. It is not relevant whether people in the UK knew what he was doing, what he did is a symbol of religious hate.

Anelka made this gesture on 28th December. On 20th December new charges were brought against Dieudonne for reminding a Jewish journalist about gas ovens and in November he was fined for a song deriding the holocaust. That doesn't even come close to some of the photo's of people doing the quenelle outside synagogue's etc.

If Dieudonne posted his views on this forum he would be banned. Banned from ATD! FFS you've got to be way outside of normal society if you get banned here.

You have no clue what was actually in his head when he did it so don't purport to, it makes you look a fool. You may well think it is a symbol of religious hate, plenty of other people don't, including the top Fourby in Paris, I place far more weight in his opinion than yours, come to think about it he probably knows more about football as well.

Every Prem game is live in France, Spain, Thailand, the US and even here if you know where to look for it.

I have heard a Jewish comic make jokes about the ovens, a black comic make jokes about KKK hangings in the South, a female comic make a joke about the taste of going down on a woman with a kidney complaint, so this guy is obnoxious, big fecking deal, Blair started a fecking war because of his religious beliefs, get on his back.

The fact that Tracky got banned on here and that this dick wad would as well says more about this forum than them.

People hold views that others don't like, get over it, if we in this country can tolerate Imams spreading jihadist propaganda inciting their young to kill Brits then why the fook are you so incensed because some gobby twat doesn't like what he perceives the Jews to have done to 'his people'?

Because some international political lobbies are far more powerful than others.

Those driving this moral outrage are no doubt Jewish descendants in prominent media, broadcasting, and political positions across Europe and America.

The levels of Palestinian, North Africans and Arab descendants aren't really working in these prominent positions in anything like similar proportions. And in France there are historic colonial ties with Africa and the Middle East by which millions of descendants now live in France.

If you want to have a debate on racism, then lets speak to those Arab youths fed up with government.

Why can't they get jobs?
Why can't they get opportunities?
Why are their people not seen reading the news, writing the opinion columns, sat in political office, in the banking and financial structure, becoming directors of big financial institutions?

To just say Anelka is racist for doing a salute that someone who is being vilified in the French media made popular, a person clearly with a lot of support in the urban areas, ignores the real debate. Why does Dieudonne have that support of famous French Africans/Arabs like Nicolas Anelka, and swathes of angry youths out on the streets? Damon is painting it as purely religious hatred once again from Islam, but I hazard to guess that is not the case.

This gesture is clearly a complicated matter. You can't prove it is religious or ethnic hatred, so much as having such blurred lines with the frustrations at the struggles of African and Arab peoples in France, and the prominence of the Jewish descendants. The gesture is popular in the urban areas and has grown to epitomise a rebellious political message. So you can't throw the book at Anelka as a racist for that - the gesture has a complicated political meaning that can't be interpreted solely the way the casual onlooker decides.

Trying to paint this as an anti-semitic issue is plainly to deny the real racial issues in France - that is that some ethnic groups have access to opportunities, and other plainly feel that they don't. And what is more 'racist' - one gesture, or an entire country's attitude that permeates its businesses, institutions and levels of government?

I find it pretty fascinating that not many in the media have chosen to write what I have, or at least present some clarity as to why Anelka's gesture has been taken as a political message than a racial one by many. Is hanging him out to dry and stifling the debate a much better course of events in the interests of some?

ejh wrote:

Those driving this moral outrage are no doubt Jewish

Oh deary me.

AstiSpumante wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice if sport could be totally detached from anything Political or racial, Sadly that's never going to happen is it.

yeap much like on here with on the pitch and off the pitch threads. It just wont happen.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

ejh wrote:

Those driving this moral outrage are no doubt Jewish

Oh deary me.

Very carefully spliced mid-sentence, contemptible behaviour even for a trolling idiot such as yourself.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I detest the Jewish financial establishment

Steady on Tis.