Trust/PASB question. The new stand - Kier

Edit: Just noticed earlier in this thread, that GN referred to the AFT with , 'Cheers Andy'. So can we assume that the AFT user on here is in fact our erstwhile member Andy Symons, who cancelled his membership on a point of principle but now would seem quite happy to chip in as the AFT ?

Nothing childish, dear boy. I just happen to be a pretty good judge of people and their motivations.

Oops !   I thought I might have got the wrong end of the stick. Only just woken up.

I expect that's the last we'll see of the AFT on here and it will be all our fault ............... no great loss.

I deleted as I thought I might've had wrong end of stick too haha.

AFT have been a huge disappointment. Whoever lowered himself to mocking ECFC needs to be first out the door.

Not good when the fans trust starts mocking another football team.Lowering them selves to the level of nooligans. Abit of a DOH moment.

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I see nothing wrong with a little banter, it was one of the reasons for ATD's existence and can be found on here every day since its creation.

Banter is fine. The bigger picture concerning personal ambition 'at' the club, appearing more important than ambition 'for' the club, is what concerns me.
As Coxside said, the AFT went missing when we needed them to be the focal point of opposition to the clusterfuck. In my eyes it is now a largely irrelevant sideshow. If it maintains the current levels of compliance, no doubt it will welcomed back into the fold.
'Being someone' at today's HP is where it's at for some individuals.

The reluctant one sussed that weakness long ago.

Coxside_Green wrote:

I deleted as I thought I might've had wrong end of stick too haha.

AFT have been a huge disappointment.  Whoever lowered himself to mocking ECFC needs to be first out the door.

I agree with that coxside, the trust leadership is poor, taking the piss out of a good poster like jabba, while pandering to nool and the gang, keeps on proving it in my opinion.

GOB wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a little banter, it was one of the reasons for ATD's existence and can be found on here every day since its creation.

Can I change my name to Argyle Trust and then banter?

What we do under our own recognised pseudonyms, names etc isn't comparable.

AFT have been pretty poor when we needed them most. If the best the AFT can offer us is a 'put down' of ECFC then they might as well stop being 'volunteers'.

They're not all responsible of course but one person is. Feck him!

Coxside_Green wrote:

GOB wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a little banter, it was one of the reasons for ATD's existence and can be found on here every day since its creation.

Can I change my name to Argyle Trust and then banter?

What we do under our own recognised pseudonyms, names etc isn't comparable.

AFT have been pretty poor when we needed them most.  If the best the AFT can offer us is a 'put down' of ECFC then they might as well stop being 'volunteers'.  

They're not all responsible of course but one person is.  Feck him!

Yes CG, I think that those are valid points.

I like most have been disappointed with the AFT but my disappointment is restrained by the fact that I am not prepared to take an active role myself and therefore I find myself being hypocritical by adopting a more cynical approach.

Most of us would have no chance whatsoever of gaining a seat where it matters.  With that realisation I wont tolerate being called a hypocrite.

Once in a position of trust you have a duty.  Disagreeing with rival fans under your own name is one thing, mocking them from behind an elected group name is another.  Shit behaviour!

It appears even worse that the chap allegedly involved wasn't even elected. I hope it's not true.

Again, you have a valid point but again like one or two others, your point is rendered insignificant by what I perceive as a personality issue rather than a genuine concern. As I say, you point is valid but hardly significant and if you're looking to rock boats by exploiting a couple of lines of banter then fine, but I doubt that more than a few will be taking you seriously.

No idea where you get anything personal from this.

My issue is with the reply to Jabba.  Whoever has made that reply, under the name of AFT...

It's unprofessional

Anyhow, whoever it was, supporters lost, many of whom paid their tenner and went seemingly unrepresented.

Too busy planning snide remarks against the opposition I suppose rather than dealing with real issues.

Let's all embrace shit football, or find something else to do

Anyone (including the AFT) should be applauded for taking the piss out of Excretia, i fail to see what the problem is here, it was hardly a foul mouthed tirade or as GOB said there may be personal issues.............storm in a teacup.

Coxside_Green wrote:

No idea where you get anything personal from this.

My issue is with the reply to Jabba.  Whoever has made that reply, under the name of AFT...

It's unprofessional

Anyhow, whoever it was, supporters lost, many of whom paid their tenner and went seemingly unrepresented.

Too busy planning snide remarks against the opposition I suppose rather than dealing with real issues.

Let's all embrace shit football, or find something else to do

My perception of your issue being a personality issue is because you're attempting to make something appear far more serious than most of us would consider it to be.

Unprofessional? Maybe but hardly and who really cares, it's so insignificant and your argument will be perceived as simply, silly.

Nobody cares so dont complain we are where we are.

On that note I feel like a troll. I'm done with this.

Troll, toasted, sauteed or grilled? A glass of Chianti

Let's get this straight. This is Andy Symons we're talking about here. The Chair of the AFT and I believe he wasn't elected but was brought onto its management group in troubled times and then later, elected chair by the board. I don't have a problem with that.

Andy joined ATD about 18 months ago I believe ? Newell hates him for some reason and has done from way back [ so he can't be all bad] .

Shortly after Andy and Peggy had joined ATD we had a bit of a crisis one night and the forum was closed down. As a technophobe mod I asked the two of them to join the mod team and help out while the few remaining mods got the site up and running again.
The first annual mod elections the following May were preceded by some falling out in the modroom over the future ethos of ATD. By this time Peggy had stood down from Admin and Andy,who was becoming actively involved with the AFT, also declared his intention not to stand for the mod team.

My own feeling is that he was looking for a way out anyway and once established inside the trust he deleted his account on ATD. The reason given was the new mods refusing to ban 'a known racist' who had not broken any rules on ATD . I believe Penz too, departed. Andy was and still is a friend of Cerbera I believe and I didn't trust either of them for what I perceived their 'ambition' in the Argyle world.

Fast forward to recent times and credit must be given to Andy and the AFT for their 'asking of difficult questions' and the superb work of the AFT WG. Since then however, they have backed off from confrontation with the club and are busying themselves with nostalgia and charity work. They were the only credible fans group capable of leading the opposition but they seemed to 'bottle it'. The conclusion I have reached is that they thought they would be cast out of the club completely and they are almost certainly correct. For me, it was a battle worth fighting and a lot more of the potential support base and the wider public, would have been made aware of the implications for the club of this development in its now approved form.

The fact that Andy now contributes on here as 'AFT' and not as Andy Symons, is not only hypocritical but also undemocratic. We were told that the trust board could not wage the war because its members were split on the issue. The pasb were split too but still managed to have a board vote and went to the press in support of the HHP development.
Posting as the AFT , Andy is now taking a swipe[banter if you like] at an articulate City fan. If he wants to do that personally, fair enough but he shouldn't do it under the AFT banner.

This forum is now being followed and sometimes used by some high profile Argyle fans, as the awareness grows that the club has been stitched up and those who control Pasoti have assisted the process and marginalised all opposition for personal position.

My underlying perception is that the jostling for position at HP far outweighs fighting for what is right for the club.

Tringreen wrote:

Let's get this straight. This is Andy Symons we're talking about here. The Chair of the AFT and I believe he wasn't elected but was brought onto its management group in troubled times and then later, elected chair by the board. I don't have a problem with that.

Andy joined ATD about 18 months ago I believe ? Newell hates him for some reason and has done from way back [ so he can't be all bad] .

Shortly after Andy and Peggy had joined ATD we had a bit of a crisis one night and the forum was closed down. As a technophobe mod I asked the two of them to join the mod team and help out while the few remaining mods got the site up and running again.
The first annual mod elections the following May were preceded by some falling out in the modroom over the future ethos of ATD. By this time Peggy had stood down from Admin and Andy,who was becoming actively involved with the AFT, also declared his intention not to stand for the mod team.

My own feeling is that he was looking for a way out anyway and once established inside the trust he deleted his account on ATD. The reason given was the new mods refusing to ban 'a known racist' who had not broken any rules on ATD . I believe Penz too, departed. Andy was and still is a friend of Cerbera I believe and I didn't trust either of them for what I perceived their 'ambition' in the Argyle world.

Fast forward to recent times and credit must be given to Andy and the AFT for their 'asking of difficult questions' and the superb work of the AFT WG. Since then however, they have backed off from confrontation with the club and are busying themselves with nostalgia and charity work. They were the only credible fans group capable of leading the opposition but they seemed to 'bottle it'. The conclusion I have reached is that they thought they would be cast out of the club completely and they are almost certainly correct. For me, it was a battle worth fighting and a lot more of the potential support base and the wider public, would have been made aware of the implications for the club of this development in its now approved form.

The fact that Andy now contributes on here as 'AFT' and not as Andy Symons, is not only hypocritical but also undemocratic. We were told that the trust board could not wage the war because its members were split on the issue. The pasb were split too but still managed to have a board vote and went to the press in support of the HHP development.
Posting as the AFT , Andy is now taking a swipe[banter if you like] at an articulate City fan. If he wants to do that personally, fair enough but he shouldn't do it under the AFT banner.

This forum is now being followed and sometimes used by some high profile Argyle fans, as the awareness grows that the club has been stitched up and those who control Pasoti have assisted the process and marginalised all opposition for personal position.

My underlying perception is that the jostling for position at HP far outweighs fighting for what is right for the club.

You're a troll too. Stop wasting your time and embrace the corruption. You'll feel much better when you don't give 2 fecks, that I promise you.

Do you think I'll get a Directors' Box invite if I promise to shut up and and say it had all been a big mistake on my part ?

If you could afford a share and made some promises, nooligans would shine your boots. You know how it works.

Some very valid points Tring, most of which I agree with and far more intelligently put then an attempt to pick up on a hint of banter to discredit someone.

The only thing that I question with your comments is the comparison with the actions of the PASB, I don't want to see the AFT act using the same methods as the PASB or the AFT will be considered as worthless as the PASB, from a fans point of view.

Just to make this clear, my dislike of the current trust really has nothing to do with this thread.

They were missing when we needed them most.  They gave up too easily when Brent dismissed the working group's plan.  Despite interest they never furthered Damon's idea of a debenture plan.  To have cnuts like PL2 faced telling us PCC never paid enough for us to have a bigger stand, the whole fekn lot stinks.

It just so happened this thread triggered it for me.  Before that I just thought 'feck it'.  To see some tw@t popping at a rival fan under an umbrella was a bit much.

Make of that what you will. There wont be an ongoing witch hunt, Argyle fans will get what they deserve.

I agree on the whole with Tringies post and as he is phsycic it would be foolish not to, the Trust going missing when needed was a huge disappointment to me and was due in my view to the the trust being infiltrated by Brentites who are looking for self promotion, this whole sage has been a sorry mess from start to end, with Brent aided and abetted by pasoti and the superfans to get his evil asset stripping ways granted. However we will need the trust in the future and with most fans finally waking up to the fact that we have been shortchanged we must get the trust back in the hands of fans willing to question Brent and that means the Trust growing a pair of cojones and manning the feck up. If you are on speaking terms with baby James then you are doing what he wants and shutting the feck up, now what is the point in being allowed to join a conversation that isn't happening?

Can I make one point. Andy stood for election but as there were not enough people who wanted to stand in the election, he was declared elected unopposed. This is no different to what frequently happens in elections for local councils etc. If there are two spaces available on a parish council and only two people put themselves up for election, then those two people will be declared elected. The Trust is exactly the same.

Richard Blight wrote:

Can I make one point. Andy stood for election but as there were not enough people who wanted to stand in the election, he was declared elected unopposed. This is no different to what frequently happens in elections for local councils etc. If there are two spaces available on a parish council and only two people put themselves up for election, then those two people will be declared elected. The Trust is exactly the same.

Exactly Richard!

The AFT in my opinion has been weak but it should be remembered that the AFT is us 'Argyle fans' and if the AFT has been weak it's because of us, 'Argyle fans' and not any individual. The fact that Andy was the only one willing to put his head on the block says it all and as I often say, Argyle fans will get what Argyle fans deserve.