let's stand together come what may

excuse the odd typo

I've thought long and hard about whether or not to post because over recent times it has been difficult for some to accept that as the President I am still able to hold my own personal opinion as a support of Plymouth Argyle.

I think I owe it to myself though to put that to the side, accept the flack that will without doubt follow and have my say.

Once again yesterday we saw the type of performance that will see us playing BSP football next season if it becomes the standard for the final 10 games. A few days earlier we saw a performance level that will see us safe. The big question for us all is which Argyle will turn up every week and as we wonder that the games tick by.

I'm not here to give my view on the managerial situation. I actually think that the debate is very finely balanced.

For those that say Carl Fletcher should be doing better with these players, you could point out that half the team weren't paid for months, we had no pre-season and the rest of the team have had to come into this mess.

For those that say our form should see us just safe, you could argue that it won't be enough if others pick up results.

For those who point to the positive of a 'new manager' effect, for every good appointment there is a Wolverhampton Wanderers to match it.

For those who say surely it must come good you could say 'we've been saying that all season'

For those who say the signs are exactly the same as the previous years you could say that's rubbish as for the last 2 seasons we have suffered with overpaid players, some of whom did not even want to be here. Now we have a set of lads regardless of ability that give everything they have.

I too want to see the attacking spirit of Northampton, Accrington and Wimbledon. I don't want to see the approach of Port Vale or Rotherham.

The examples above are merely to show split views are and in fact how everyones views are valid, whatever the standpoint.

For me though, the manager, Board and everyone at the Club will take feedback from the supporters and I'm sure at the end of the day judgements will be made on everyone involved at Argyle whether now or at the end of the season.

My request is simple. That whatever you think and whatever happens let's give it everything as a fanbase for 10 more games. 10 huge games where we can make the difference. Our rivals cannot call on the numbers and vocal backing that we can.

No more sniping, no more point scoring. We all support the same Club. We all want the same thing.

I'm sat here in the hotel ahead of the football league awards thinking back over the last 12 months. The vigil, the packed meetings, the taverners, Sue Pollard, the rise of the Trust and thousands of people coming together. I was chuckling to myself and had a flashback. The day before Guilfoyle finally came to James Brent I was planning to go on hunger strike and handcuff myself in the boardroom in a bid to get us some media coverage. That's how much saving this Club meant to us all.

Tonight I firmly believe that Sue Pollard will be crowned as 'Fan of the Year'. That award is to all Argyle supporters. That is saying 'when all was lost you went out and said no we will not let our Club die' As a united force we beat Guilfoyle, Heaney and the M7. We can sure as hell beat Macclesfield and Dagenham.

I've spoken to James Brent today and the Club are working hard on dropping prices for Shrewsbury (to include a season ticket holder incentive) as a thank you to the loyalty of the Green Army. If the logistics beat him then the offer should be in place for the Bradford game.

I refuse to accept relegation. I refuse to accept that after everything we gave and with 30 points to play for that we are going to lay down and die. Let's stand up tall and demand better from our players.

Whatever your view we are all green and all Argyle till we die.

10 games to save our season. At one point we had 20 minutes to save our Club. We did that.

COME ON YOU GREENS!

Ps I better go and buy Sue a drink

No comment.

Whole heartedly agree with the sentiments expressed.

IJN likes it over on the Farm. Grovehill's not too impressed though.

The hunger strike and handcuff bit would have been a bit ott in my opinion!

But fundamentally was chris is saying is true, no amount of argueing or criticising fletch for his tactics is going to keep us up (As we dont seem to be getting a new manager in by doing this!)

I was properly annoyed and quite down after yesterday, added to that West f*cking Ham messed up my bet for £50! - Couldnt even hold onto a lead against donny at home!

Self obsessed (I'm off to London, I'm supporting Sue at the Awards, I've spoken to James, I was going on hunger strike, we, the Trust, saved the club etc.etc.) claptrap

How long will it be before people accept that the current owner has responsibility for the team and club. Or is everything that was and will go wrong under the current ownership be declared (by some people) to be the fault of the previous regime?

Staff not paid in full...blame Guilfoyle.

Relegation to BSP....Reid's fault for the bad start to the season.

Signing crap players.... League won't let us sign good 'uns.

Poor home form...the fans fault for not getting behind the lads-or for putting too much "pressure" on the team.


If and when Argyle get relegated it won't be because the fans aren't behind the team (what other team would pull in 6000+ when bottom of the League?)

It will be because of inaction by the people in charge

chriswebbfanclub wrote:

If and when Argyle get relegated it won't be because the fans aren't behind the team (what other team would pull in 6000+ when bottom of the League?)

It will be because of inaction by the people in charge

And those that advise them.

38 years of supporting Argyle, and I've never been as down about the state of my club as I am now. Yes, I know what I'm saying; even when the club looked to be heading towards liquidation there were more bright spots to be found than there are now. You were there, too, Chris, so I'm sure you understand what I mean.

The problem I, and increasing numbers of other supporters, have is that we are going down without anything being done to change things, either on the field, off the field or around the club generally. To use one of my favourite quotes from the motivational speaker Zig Ziglar: "If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got." To put it another way - if what you're doing isn't working, try something else. A concept that seems to have passed the club's hierarchy by. Fletch's management technique is straight out of the coaching manuals; no originality, no risk taking, nothing to make opposition managers wonder about what he's going to try next. IF he doesn't change his approach, it's likely we'll go down. If he does change, we may still go down, but at least we'll have seen him trying to rescue the situation with a bit of original thinking.

The same applies in the Boardroom. Mr Brent has stuck with Fletcher, which is commendable in many ways; too many owners and Chairmen operate a revolving door policy on the Manager's office. Brent's loyalty to Fletch is commendable. But if he's intent on sticking with the manager, then he should look at other areas that changes should be made, and the obvious one is in the coaching set up. More experience is needed.

I hope that your calls for an end to sniping are observed; however the events on this website of the last 72 hours lead me to doubt that they will. And I have to say, Chris, that you need to impress this upon some of those who are closest to you at Argyle. There's one person who has been at the heart of the ill-feeling between supporters. If he were to stop his frankly ludicrous behaviour, much of the division between fans would cease. You're an intelligent bloke, so I'm sure you realise the truth of this.

When you ask for supporters to give it everything for the next 10 games, I'm surprised. The matchday support is not the problem. It's been a constant theme of away games that whichever team we've played, their supporters have praised the loyalty, dedication and sheer volume (in both senses) of the Green Army. And given the on the field state of the club, the numbers that have been turning up at Home Park are nothing short of miraculous. The team has received superb backing from the fans; we've done our bit, and will doubtless continue to do so. What the supporters want is for the team, and the club, to show the same sort of passion and commitment that the fans have. That's something that hasn't always been evident this season.

You can rest assured, Chris, that those regulars from ATD that can get to games will continue to do so (LA and Cyprus are a bit outside reasonable commuting distance, in fairness) Knecht and I will be in the Trust booths, Cerbs, Gob, Peggy, Charlie et al will be enjoying the hospitality in the Cherry Tree before games, and getting behind the lads, as they do every game.

If Argyle gets relegated this season, the one group that will not be held culpable is the supporters. As a collective, the fans have gone above and beyond the call of duty all season, turning up in the sort of numbers, home and away, that are the envy of many clubs doing considerably better than us. Relegation, if it happens, will be as a result of a failure of leadership in the Boardroom and in the dug-out.

Think carefully before buying Sue too many drinks. She needs to be fully compos mentis this evening when she makes her winner's acceptance speech.

I'm with Andy, use the dogs on the enemy not Argo fans.

oddball wrote:

IJN likes it over on the Farm. Grovehill's not too impressed though.

Grovehill is right. This club has been an absolute f***ing shambles since coming out of administration. The whole set up on and off the pitch is a total and utter disgrace. No good trying to give rousing speeches to the fans. The fans have have been outstanding home and away despite the shit being served up on the pitch. There's nothing more the fans can do. The blame for our being expelled from the football league and probable subsequent financial meltdown must entirely rest with brent and his useless 'board'.

Firstly best of luck to sue for later. Would be tremendous recognition for all the selfless work she puts in.

With regards to pulling together, I don't see myself at war with any other fan's because my views are different to some others. In all walks of life there is healthy debate amongst people with a common goal and sometimes it makes you wonder if both sides actually want to achieve the same goal, in our case success for argyle, and some of the things I have witnessed recently have left me shaking my head in disbelief as to the lengths some people will go to get their point put across.

We are almost certainly going to be stuck with Carl Fletcher for the rest of the season and I just hope we manage to be only the 3rd most shite tem in this league. Football fans of the same team will alwayshave differing opinions on players and managers but right now I hope everyone does do whatever they can to get behind the players and manager to try and help keep us up.

I just hope that as soon as our fate is known that James Brent makes the right decisions and backs a change in management straight away. Do whatever it takes to get in someone who could take us forward in future, because I don't think Fletcher is that man.

If a new man is backed financially I don't care if it takes a year or two for the team to gel etc as long as people can see which direction we are going in and we arenever subjected to such lifeless negative one dimensional crap by an argyle team again. Don't mind losing sometimes if you can see the team have at least tried but been beaten by the better side, but to watch 90 where not one shot on target is seen or no game plan is apparent, and opposition managers don't have to change anything all game, because their tactics are so simple and yet affective, against a gameplan that doesn't work from the start and isn't changed for 89 minutes, when the cunning plan becomes to throw everyone forward and punt the ball as hard as possible!

If we do survive and Fletcher isn't replaced, or is with someone else on the cheap and still no significant investment in players, it will be apparent that Brent doesn't care what league we are in.

And another big flag isn't going to be the answer, or another drum. Only a real coaching set up and some half decent players will do.

Ok Mr President, rather than pleading to the fanbase once again - the long suffering fanbase who have had to put up with utter rubbish the last 3 years - why don't you plead with our wonderful new owner - something like, 'James, this is your club, what are YOU going to do to avoid us dropping out of the football league', should do it.

It's way past the time for tub thumping. Do something meaningful.

Freathy wrote:

oddball wrote:

IJN likes it over on the Farm. Grovehill's not too impressed though.

Grovehill is right. This club has been an absolute f***ing shambles since coming out of administration. The whole set up on and off the pitch is a total and utter disgrace. No good trying to give rousing speeches to the fans. The fans have have been outstanding home and away despite the shit being served up on the pitch. There's nothing more the fans can do. The blame for our being expelled from the football league and probable subsequent financial meltdown must entirely rest with brent and his useless 'board'.

No it doesn't. Not all of it anyway. The blame, well the vast majority of it, lies with those who preceded Brent. Administration left the club stripped of pretty much everything. We couldn't even put a team on the pitch without packing it with youth teamers. Everything else had gone. We were being managed by Peter Reid and being coached by his brother. After that there was almost nothing at all.

We were so thoroughly shafted that in terms of both club structure, resources and league position that it is a miracle that we aren't relegated already. I'm as unhappy as anybody else that things haven't turned out better but Brent has made his decisions and has to live by them. We may yet stay up. If we do then his decisions are vindicated. All of them. Lock, stock and barrel. If we go down then obviously his decisions were not successful and it will be open season for criticism during the post mortem.

If we go down the blame does not "entirely" rest with Brent but if we stay up then the glory will surely be his and his alone.

Where is the glory in just avoiding a third successive relegation?

pepsipete wrote:

Where is the glory in just avoiding a third successive relegation?

I agree that it doesn't seem like much to celebrate but the previous 2 relegations weren't Brent's fault and we were well on our way to the third before he got started. Staying up this season would be as good as going up in normal circumstances.

This club joined the Football League in 1920 and has been in it ever since.

As if it's not bad enough that we could be about to lose that status, and as if it's not bad enough that little or nothing appears to be happening to stop that, we now need to be told how to support our club.

I feel ever so slightly patronised.

Peggy wrote:

This club joined the Football League in 1920 and has been in it ever since.

As if it's not bad enough that we could be about to lose that status, and as if it's not bad enough that little or nothing appears to be happening to stop that, we now need to be told how to support our club.

I feel ever so slightly patronised.

Don't you worry your pretty little head about it, darlin'.

^*joke*^

Over the last year or so the supporters and staff have made sacrifice after sacrifice for this club. Just maybe it's time for the people at the top to realise a non league Argyle isn't a club that's been saved.

Anyone who thinks that the BSP isn't that bad are deluding themselves. Yeah we were in administration and we had 1 point from 8 games but can someone tell me what's happened since then to change things? Opportunities have been missed, so it's down to the last 10 games and the only thing that the powers that be can come up with is get behind the team and pack the ground out. Well excuse me but that's been happening, so I'll ask you Mr President what are the powers that be doing to ensure survival? What's changed in the last few months? From where I sit very little, same team, same tactics and most importantly the same results.

I'm sure there is a certain constituency that loves this kind of stuff. To me it's like teaching fans to suck the proverbial egg. I've heard little malcontent coming from fans at Home Park or at away games. If there had been boos and cat calls The President might have half a point but the team has been very well supported.

It wasn't long ago that he was lauding Forza Verde for improving the atmosphere and adding hundreds to the gate. Has that effect worn thin for the team now? Is having the 3rd(?) highest average in the division not motivating enough? Is selling out the away end at Wimbledon with hundred more in the home crowd on a Tuesday nightof so fleeting consequence to the players?

Mr President,please don't tell me how to support my club,your post is patronising nonsense from beginning to end-oh and I don't give a monkeys about Sue Pollard getting an award,I think we all should get an award for going every week and watching continual disappointment.I will be there on Saturday as usual but Mr President and Mr Brent,I will not be coming down on a rainy Tues night or a cold winter afternoon to watch the likes of Alfreton Town or Ebbsfleet Utd (no disrespect intended to those clubs) no matter how much I love Argyle or how much you try to indoctrinate me into your way of supporting my team.Goodnight!

Mr President wrote:

For those that say Carl Fletcher should be doing better with these players, you could point out that half the team weren't paid for months, we had no pre-season and the rest of the team have had to come into this mess.

For those that say our form should see us just safe, you could argue that it won't be enough if others pick up results.

We can sure as hell beat Macclesfield and Dagenham.

Three selected quotes that suggest to me you STILL do not get it..................

Having a player as manager who has been associated with your serial failure for the third successive season is a major part of your dilemma right now. The players you have NOW are being paid (they are aren't they?) pre-season has gone and those "that have come in" should be the type to whom whatever has gone on is an irrelevance.

I don't think your current "form" is good enough to be honest.

Why can you "sure as hell beat Macclesfield and Dagenham". What at playing football or in the size of your crowds? I hope you think it is in playing football because as Scotland prove time and time again; big and fanatical followings mean naff all once the white line has been crossed and can in fact become an added pressure to players who do not have the stature or mental toughness to cope with it.

Being "the biggest club in any division" does not guarantee success as a look at the Champions board of The Conference shows year in year out.

Mock Dagenham at your peril by the way for they have a manager in John Still who can do this beat the drop thing with his eyes closed and a club spirit ideally suited to this dog fight. Northampton have appointed Adie Boothroyd who knows how to achieve from a substandard squad and if YOU had shown any sense you would have turned to Ian Atkins who is the daddy of them all at saving clubs.

............and finally do you really think your club is now owned by someone who has the slightest clue how the world of lower league football works? Because I'll tell you this pal ~ Plymouth Argyle are now in uncharted waters as regards what is needed to survive the type of battle you are in, and in my opinion you have neither the chairman nor manager who appear to either grasp the nettle or know what the hell they are doing............the lower you get in the football world, the more you need to know the nuts and bolts of it; and it appears that James Brent has only surrounded himself with the nuts!

Anyone buying a football club (or any other business) out of Administration and expecting not to put any more money in in the first few months is either sadly deluded or badly advised.

Most football clubs run at a loss and rely on regular cash inputs from the owner-was JB unaware of this also. Did the "we saved the Club" CPers never explain the realities to him?

I understand that JB has bought other businesses that were in administration, were they all expected to be self financing from day one?

For me, it's pretty simplistic.

Question:- Who's far and away the most important and influential person at any club?

Answer:- The Manager.

So, if basic business sense and common sense follows, then it is a given that you go out and get the very best that falls within your budget.

In our position, a firefighter with some calibre in the 'getting teams out of the shit' bracket is the very least we should have been hoping for. But no. Instead of that we give the gig to a 31yr old with zero management experience, who also happens to be our captain and best player. That very same fella now decides it's more important to try and carve out a management career, than do what he used to do - play.

A monumental f**kup by Brent and whatever idiots are advising him.