Ken Bates Come And Save us.

Greenskin wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

We could do with a few seasons of someone like the Russian at Bournemouth. At least if he got us to the PL and we managed to remain for more than a season, or even yoyo for a decade or so, the fanbase would then mirror that of many other clubs of comparable catchment areas.
That is why Norwich and Southampton will always bounce back with 20k+ fanbases in the lower leagues and why Swansea and Hull among others will follow a similar path.

Sustainability is all well and good once top flight exposure has been achieved but it will never lift a club out of oblivion into the top flight where fanbases are cemented.
All we hear now is, 'We're looking to be a sustainable Championship club', which is pure folly. Neither Plymouth or any other similar sized city has or will come out in numbers for championship football, until they've got the PL t shirt.

It must be a westcountry thing to believe otherwise. Just because you and your mates are addicted, doesn't mean anyone else will be interested until the Champions League clubs start coming to HP.

ps A fit for purpose grandstand with function rooms etc would be a real help both financially and could inspire new blood, or even the 8-10k missing from 10 years ago but I can't see PCC 'doing a Swansea'. They have clearly at last seen through the asset stripping, pension pot filler and won't throw any more cash at the club while he's still there.

Indeed. SFD only seems ever to highlight the clubs where the rich investor/sugar daddy model has failed. There are  plenty of examples of where the fortunes of clubs have been totally turned around by such entities-Madjeski at Reading, Whelan at Wigan, the bloke at Brentford, the other one at Brighton, Landsdowne at Bristol City etc etc.If a similar type were to turn up a Home park tomorrow ,then personally I would bite his hand off and feck the fans trust concept or the nonsensical "living within our means" bullshit, which would only be tenable if Argyle were in South West peninsula 3 and Mrs Mopp did a half time draw every week.

Well I suppose there's 2 ways of going about this.

1. Be all Micawberish and just hope that something will turn.
2. Actually do something and plan towards achieving an end result.

I prefer the latter because there is no evidence at all that the first is ever going to happen which means the ""living within our means" bullshit" is the only option we have if we want to carry on watching our football team play.

But what if it does all go peachy and somebody decides to flash mountains of cash in our direction. Then what?

They'll want it back one day and more. That's what'll happen. With Blackpool being an excellent recent example.

I can only think of 2 clubs that are currently operating solely due to extravagant backing and they are Chelsea and Man Cty. For each of them the cost of their owners' vanity projects is of no consequence.

It has to be said that Madejski worked a minor miracle at Reading and then got out. Right now they are experiencing a particulalry interesting period in their history (http://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/2014/12/10/7367347/former-reading-fc-owners-report-record-debt) and of the teams you mentioned only Lansdowne at Bristol City has actually spent his own money and written off his investment but he is very much the exception.

None of which matters because no such figure looms on our horizon.

Besides realistically how far could Argyle go? We're never likely to be competing with Real Madrid are we? That means at some point we will have to accept our limitations and that there will be a ceiling for us no matter what the ownership model.

Much as I'd like to see us being the best team in the world, and we should never stop striving to achieve that end, being the best club in the world is easily within our grasp should we choose to head in that direction. Quite what that means will differ for all of us but for me it just means being the best we can be without shitting all over all and sundry to get there.

Greenskin wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

We could do with a few seasons of someone like the Russian at Bournemouth. At least if he got us to the PL and we managed to remain for more than a season, or even yoyo for a decade or so, the fanbase would then mirror that of many other clubs of comparable catchment areas.
That is why Norwich and Southampton will always bounce back with 20k+ fanbases in the lower leagues and why Swansea and Hull among others will follow a similar path.

Sustainability is all well and good once top flight exposure has been achieved but it will never lift a club out of oblivion into the top flight where fanbases are cemented.
All we hear now is, 'We're looking to be a sustainable Championship club', which is pure folly. Neither Plymouth or any other similar sized city has or will come out in numbers for championship football, until they've got the PL t shirt.

It must be a westcountry thing to believe otherwise. Just because you and your mates are addicted, doesn't mean anyone else will be interested until the Champions League clubs start coming to HP.

ps A fit for purpose grandstand with function rooms etc would be a real help both financially and could inspire new blood, or even the 8-10k missing from 10 years ago but I can't see PCC 'doing a Swansea'. They have clearly at last seen through the asset stripping, pension pot filler and won't throw any more cash at the club while he's still there.

Indeed. SFD only seems ever to highlight the clubs where the rich investor/sugar daddy model has failed. There are  plenty of examples of where the fortunes of clubs have been totally turned around by such entities-Madjeski at Reading, Whelan at Wigan, the bloke at Brentford, the other one at Brighton, Landsdowne at Bristol City etc etc.If a similar type were to turn up a Home park tomorrow ,then personally I would bite his hand off and feck the fans trust concept or the nonsensical "living within our means" bullshit, which would only be tenable if Argyle were in South West peninsula 3 and Mrs Mopp did a half time draw every week.

Surely everyone realises by now that Frank Drake is ever so selective with the subjects he highlights or the quotes he uses(particularly political ones) in his futile attempts to brainwash the ATD brethren? Sinister superiority and hilarious predictability in equal measure.

What about the Fleetwood owner, IIRC he's spent approximately 15 million of his own money which has helped them to numerous promotions over the last few years, they're now comfortably above us in the football pyramid

LOL!

Once a bear, always a bear.............................................. just don't fall out with the

Demanding that Ken Bates or Unnamed Russian to come in and save us is childish in the extreme... Brent hasn't got two pennies to rub together, we've all known that for some time. It's very easy to wish for someone to come in and pump money into the club and easy to spend 15million of imaginary money, but, in all likelihood, it ain't gonna happen.

Guest wrote:

Freathy wrote:

Brent must be driven out of the club NOW or we're facing oblivion

Lets play brents favourite game, look through the league tables and find two worse teams than ours! and it wont be easy.

This thread would carry more weight if those who slagged off JB, the team and JS while forecasting immediate relegation at least held up their hands and said ''OK the team has improved and we got that one a little wrong'' As for ''full of hot air Freathy'' then why don't you go and drive him out?. Because you are incapable of so doing.

I've always backed Sheridan and predicted Argyle to win the league this year (there's a pre-season predictions thread somewhere). Does that help?

tigertony wrote:

Guest wrote:

Freathy wrote:

Brent must be driven out of the club NOW or we're facing oblivion

Lets play brents favourite game, look through the league tables and find two worse teams than ours! and it wont be easy.

This thread would carry more weight if those who slagged off JB, the team and JS while forecasting immediate relegation at least held up their hands and said ''OK the team has improved and we got that one a little wrong'' As for ''full of hot air Freathy'' then why don't you go and drive him out?. Because you are incapable of so doing.

To be fair, this thread started in 2013 and for a long time in the 2013/14 season Argyle did look far more like a relegation outfit than a promotion one. It was the arrival of Lavery that really seemed to kick start that run where Argyle looked as if they could reach the play offs but in all honesty they reverted to type by seasons end with a shocking run of results and performances, which I think convinced Sheridan that major surgery was needed.

SFD knows exactly what hes talking about . You should take notice . But hey just wallow in your prejudice.

And that comment is aimed at who gg

He wouldnt entertain buying us

There's definitely something in the water............................. and/or the genes

Tyhee Slim has it nailed , dontchafink ?

Quote Tyhee:

Whenever the issue of whether fans are entitled to moan comes up, my thoughts always go to the Geordies.

I would suggest that Newcastle's fans are, on the one hand, amongst the most loyal in the world. To be born a Geordie almost forces you into a lifetime's service in the Toon Army. I have more than a couple of Geordie mates who are, basically, not remotely interested in football itself but who remain Mags fans, (replica shirts as 'uniform' on foreign holidays - that sort of thing). It's almost part of the DNA or something, this whole 'Geordie Nation' thing comes as a package, and supporting the club is an integral part of it.

Very few could doubt the loyalty of the Toon Army, yet it may also be difficult to name a group of supporters who, en masse, whinge and moan about management, players, the owner, the lack of achievement, and almost everything else.

My personal take on Newcastle fans and the effect of their attitude is something along the lines of that it kind of pushes the club to achieve certain levels and standards but that it maybe hinders them beyond another level. Once the hint of real glory hoves into view a sort of fear or something kicks in, and the 'Geordie Nation' mindset reverts to some sort of slightly fearful parochialism.

Now, sort of divide that by ten or a dozen for the 'Janner Nation', as well as dropping the threshold for expectations by a level or three.

The point? Well, I see moaning and complaining as part of a the fans' duty sometimes. The trouble is in the 'variables', usually the level of expectations (reasonable or otherwise) often dictated by factors like the club's history, which will in turn usually be a factor in the size of the club's core support.

So I don't think it's unreasonable for Argyle fans, especially older ones, to moan about our club being seemingly 'established' at this level, or as seeing the chance that we may get in the playoffs as being acceptable, let alone exciting. Yes, it's where we are, and if we can get out of if then great, but sorry - for someone of my vintage we are operating way lower than we should be. The problem here seems to be, unlike at clubs where ambition and aspiration don't seem to be dirty words, that when the fans moan we simply get moaned back at or ignored by the club, or told to cheer up by the happy-clappies, and I'm afraid that a history of these attitudes going back to since Argyle first joined the league in 1920 has led us into the position we are in now.

So, all in all, I think moaning by fans is probably warranted, but maybe only if you support a club that is prepared to listen to the more constructive moans and has the requisite collective ambition to do something about it. At Argyle it's probably not worth it, but as moaning seems to be part of the average Janner's DNA (though strangely mixed with an inbuilt acceptance of mediocrity) carry on manking anyway. Nothing will happen you understand, but at least you'll get it out of your system.

Tringreen wrote:

Once a bear, always a bear.............................................. just don't fall out with the

The Naughty Step's certainly filled up somewhat in recent times....

Czarcasm wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Once a bear, always a bear.............................................. just don't fall out with the

The Naughty Step's certainly filled up somewhat in recent times....

I miss Ponty..................... the big, gay bear.

It might not have worked at Blackpool but by feck I'd swap places with them. At least they have been in the top division and have the memories. I can't be doing with accepting we're mediocre and that's our lot.

I always cast an envious eye at Wigan. (yep Wigan, FFS) An absolute nothing club in a Rugby League dominated town. I remember sliding down the grass bank 'terrace' at Springfield Park in '86, outnumbering the home fans. Look how our paths split as soon as Whelan took over. A fanbase not too dissimilar to Torquay grew and grew after sustaining Prem football consistently for many years.

Jack Walker (Blackburn), Dave Whelan, and Lansdown at Bristol City stand out for me as REAL FAN owners who put their own wonga in, regardless of any guarantees of getting it back. Lansdown being the unluckiest because City haven't made it yet despite being a play-off final away from the Prem a couple years ago. You can probably throw in Steve Gibson at M'boro actally too. BC aside, they've all lived the Top Flight dream.

Hmmm...

Jack Walker at Blackburn wasn't quite as nicey nicey as was painted. There's a chapter all about how he took control of Blackburn in David Conn's The Beautiful Game (highly recommended by the way if you have never read it - the bit about how Sky landed their first TV deal is truly shocking) detailing it all but I don't recall the details now. In many ways he invented the modern model adopted by football and as such he has to accept plenty of blame for football's current ills but they were undeniably successful for a while until upon his death his money disappeared and decline set in. So even there the success was built on sand.

Whelan at Wigan did much the same thing but more so because he built a new stadium too resulting in less success. In doing so he, too, stepped on lots of toes and he isn't universally popular, even in Wigan, because of the way he stitched up Orrell RUFC.

Gibson is a better example but even there the success wasn't sustainable. In the end I don't think there's enough Middlesbrough fans who can afford the expense of following a successful team for them to be PL sustainable.

The truth is that all of these clubs are over-achieving by getting into the PL.

None of which has any bearing on us because we simply do not have such a figure, do we?

It might be a good thing and it might be a bad thing if such a chap did appear but one thing it definitely seems to be is foolish, wishful thinking if the plan is to expect it to happen.

We can't just sit around doing diddly squat because we'd like it to happen, can we?

Tigertwat is a Tony.

It would be nice to have a football savvy owner, but not Ken Bates...