PAFC Planning Applications now online

You'd have to essentially send letters to all residents in Plymouth - that would cost in the region of £50,000.

I realise mailing the whole of Plymouth is unrealistic - I meant that some notices could be placed in the park and streets surrounding it.

I reckon a huge percentage of Argyle fans/Plymouth residents are not looking into the details thoroughly. We've seen people like angry Andy soper still thinking that in future another 2000 or so seats can just be clipped on at the drop of a hat. That's because the Pasoti spin machine is in full swing.

So if you times this view by hundreds or even thousands then there are massive numbers of ill informed people going by some fancy drawings or what their mate told them down the pub.

Su pollard has always struck me as someone who doesn't get involved in all the shit and is just interested in watching Argyle and last night she posted that the FOCP are against development on green land and the AFT working group want cottage field used so why are they in partnership? That's because Ian Newell says they are and even though the AFT released a statement straight away saying the AFT didn't oppose the development as such and weren't teamed up with FOCP trying to get them stopped.

 Now Su has either chosen to ignore the AFT statement because it's too difficult for her to grasp that Ian Newells a cnut or she's so blinkered out of blind love of Brent, Webb and Newell that she can't be bothered to form her own opinion. And that's what I think is happening with lots of Argyle fans. They see new and shiny so they don't want to trawl through pages of plans.

The amount of Plymouth residents is irrelevant. Nowhere near all of these residents use central park so it doesn't bother them. It's sad to say it but most people don't give a shit until it's right on their back door.

I want a bigger capacity for Argyle, either straight away or proof from James Brent that extending the capacity in 5 years time is easy. I want more details of the road because somebody will get killed from how I read it at the moment.

I don't want a hotel, ice-rink and cinema next to the stadium, but if they have to be there in order to get the grandstand that the club needs then it's a case of putting up with it, and it's easy for me to say this because I'm not a Plymouth resident.

If the AFT could pin Brent down to answer peoples concerns then it might allay some peoples fears and concerns, but as we've seen already, James Brent isn't keen on actually being transparent like he promised 2 years ago.

Maybe if the AFT posted an open letter to James Brent in the Herald or wherever, asking for more details to be released then it would be embarrassing to Mr Brent if he refuses, especially as he has come out with alsorts of bullshit about how he supplied information and held consultations with anyone interested in the development. I still haven't received a reply from Akkeron to my points and of course the Pasoti Q and A session with Mr Brent is still unanswered more than 2 months down the line.

This is the bottom line for me. There are too many vague details floating around at the moment that remain unanswered. How Chris Webb can literally masturbate over these plans when key points are missing is just indicative of his blinkered view, where he, along with his tubby friend, are so far up Brent's backside that he could have shown plans of a grandstand made of Lego and they would be jumping with joy.

So if there aren't enough interested people in Plymouth willing to ask questions then obviously the majority will be Argyle fans and at the moment they are seduced by the neon lights and fresh paint to care.

The vagueness of the plans needs to be addressed. If it's the AFT who need to step up their efforts then let's do it, because at the moment I don't see enough interested parties who care about the detail. It's clear that a lot of Argyle fans wouldn't care if there were 2 hotels, 2 cinemas and 2 ice-rinks going to surround Home Park, they see a new stand and don't give a feck that it's the poor relation  of the development or that Brent has lied about the retail units and what the club are going to gain from them.

Sue Pollard god bless her does not really appreciate the bigger picture , she will listen to her masters Newell and Webb without question, if it comes from them it must be gospel to the likes of her.

Dingle wrote:

I use the Life Centre and the park a lot and live in the area and am shocked at how few people have any idea of the extent of the development.  When a small development (5 houses) was planned adjacent to my own property we received 2 letters in the post from PCC listing what was planned as well as notices pinned to lamp posts.  This major plan doesn't appear to have received such publicity - I suspect people just don't know.

 That really jumped out at me, so I've done some looking up. According to the Planning Department Publicity Code (downloadable from here) there should be at least two notices up - the laminated ones you see on lamp-posts etc. There are rules about what these should contain, and the Code stipulates the steps that are taken to ensure they're accessible.

If I get time in the next couple of days, I'll go and see if I can find these notices. And if they're not there, I'll be getting on to my councillor.

Not that kind of notices, comrade. I'm talking about the official notices of planning applications, posted by the Council and replaced if they're removed. The ones you see on lampposts when your neighbour wants to build a garage, or somebody wants to chop a tree down.

From what i see and read there is a huge split around this development, i dont think its gonna be as straight forward as Brent was hoping it would be, there seems to be more Argyle fans against than for by general opinion, but its not just about Argyle, it will be the objections on the non Argyle fans that will eventually swing it either way.

Peggy * wrote:

Dingle wrote:

I use the Life Centre and the park a lot and live in the area and am shocked at how few people have any idea of the extent of the development.  When a small development (5 houses) was planned adjacent to my own property we received 2 letters in the post from PCC listing what was planned as well as notices pinned to lamp posts.  This major plan doesn't appear to have received such publicity - I suspect people just don't know.

 That really jumped out at me, so I've done some looking up. According to the Planning Department Publicity Code (downloadable from here) there should be at least two notices up - the laminated ones you see on lamp-posts etc. There are rules about what these should contain, and the Code stipulates the steps that are taken to ensure they're accessible.

If I get time in the next couple of days, I'll go and see if I can find these notices. And if they're not there, I'll be getting on to my councillor.

I expect they are on Argyle's gates or somewhere very close, which will comply with the law but next to nobody will see. Anybody walking past will just think it's another student flyer advertising a gig somewhere or someone who's lost a cat. How many people do you know who actually look at the announcements in local papers regarding planning applications etc.?

Just in case you were undecided whether or not the proposals are a good or a bad thing here is a brief synopsis from the resident pilot who never leaves the ground:

Have Your Say On Argyle Grandstand
Plymouth Argyle fans have a chance to voice their approval of the proposed Higher Home Park development.

Plans for the project, which will include a grandstand, have been submitted to the Plymouth City Council planning department where a consultation process is currently taking place until 3rd July.

Fans are encouraged to send their supportive comments to the planning department by email to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] using reference number 13/00942/ful.
Using your full name will add more weight to your views.

The whole development is set for completion in summer 2015 with Higher Home Park becoming a hub for sporting and leisure facilities in Plymouth.
Offering an impressive list of facilities, Higher Home Park will include a state-of-the-art ice arena, multiplex cinema, quality hotel, a new grandstand for Argyle, plus cafés, restaurants and shops.

The construction of the new £10m grandstand, which will not cost Argyle a penny, is scheduled to start this autumn with a finish date of November 2014 and is set to generate between £1 million and £2 million per year for the football club.

This fantastic project will provide a huge boost to Plymouth as a city and to the local economy.

During construction there will be in excess of 600 construction workers jobs during the two year build period and 400 jobs created for the management and provision of the new facilities and services when the regeneration is complete.

As well as the state of the art grandstand, cinema, hotel, and ice arena there will also be significant park landscape enhancements including creation of new tree lined routes, statement 'gateways' to the park at key entrances improving the sense of arrival to this special green space and provision of changing rooms for youth sports field users, including improvements to Cottage Field.

Once again, your comments can be sent by email to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] using reference number 13/00942/ful.

 by Taboola
From the


Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What do you reckon Postey's getting out of this? Slimy bastard surely isn't going to all this trouble just for the occasional seat in the directors box?

Webb must have had his palms greased for him to give it his unconditional support, as well as turning his back on his socialist beliefs. Nobody can be such a complete cnut just to get to hang around the club as if they're important?

125+1 wrote:

From what i see and read there is a huge split around this development, i dont think its gonna be as straight forward as Brent was hoping it would be, there seems to be more Argyle fans against than for by general opinion, but its not just about Argyle, it will be the objections on the non Argyle fans that will eventually swing it either way.

Brent needs to go back to the drawing board and address the concerns of not just the Argyle fans but the general public before pressing ahead with the development.
If he does this i am positive there will be greater acceptance of these plans.

Interesting letter in Herald questioning whether the disabled facilities are up to scratch.
Quick look says 0.9% just under the 1% of capacity wheelchair provision (only if each of the corporate boxes have a space), but can't see anything about sight or hearing impaired.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Interesting also that the section on pages 79-80 of the Design & Access statement about emergency access clearly states the capacity before segregation as 17,400. This is the one place they cannot afford to mess around with capacity figure.

Plans are wrong for middle of park

 
THE Central Park Akkeron development is so large and will have such a huge impact on Central Park and its surrounds that it is of the utmost importance that we have honesty, openness and accuracy from the Akkeron Group.

Friends of Central Park believe that Akkeron, are cherry picking the information that they are putting out to the public.


It cannot be denied that this development is inside Central Park and the hotel is being built on what is now green parkland.

This land was leased to Green Pilgrim Ltd and Akkeron Leisure Ltd in October 2011 and is currently subject to covenants that restrict what can be built on it. The purpose of the covenants is to protect both the park and the future of Plymouth Argyle.


The public has been led to believe that the development is contained within the area containing the stadium and the freehold Higher Home Park land whereas, in fact, it extends well into the green area of Central Park and will block off one of the most used pathways across the park.

The planned hotel is seven storeys high, as high as the Life Centre, and six storeys higher than the Marsh Mills Sainsburys. The site is almost the highest part of the park and would dominate some of the most natural areas of the park. The Akkeron computer-generated images indicate the hotel building is of poor design and no attempt has been made to create a building that is sympathetic to, or that will blend in with, the landscape of Central Park.

The permission to build on Cottage Field was integral to the Life Centre development but as that never went ahead at the time, that permission has now lapsed.
Tudor Evans has recently clearly stated in public that Cottage Field will not be built on.
The impact of a two-lane road coming into the heart of the park will be devastating. It will create continuous air, light and noise pollution. This will destroy the peace and tranquility of the park and have an adverse effect on all the wildlife. Escaping from traffic is a major reason why people visit parkland to relax and exercise. How can Akkeron say it will not be a 24 hour operation when there is a hotel and a taxi/mini bus set down point in Zoo Field? Will the hotel not be open 24hrs a day?
We have had one consultative meeting with James Brent and members of the Akkeron Group, at which Friends of Central Park made clear their opposition to the development.

Friends of Central Park fully support the building of a new grandstand at Argyle recognising how important Plymouth Argyle is financially to the City of Plymouth. However, we also have great concerns that the planned new grandstand will inhibit the growth of the club in the future.
JANICE HUNT
Acting chair
Friends of Central Park

Tgwu wrote:

Plans are wrong for middle of park

 
THE Central Park Akkeron development is so large and will have such a huge impact on Central Park and its surrounds that it is of the utmost importance that we have honesty, openness and accuracy from the Akkeron Group.

Friends of Central Park believe that Akkeron, are cherry picking the information that they are putting out to the public.


It cannot be denied that this development is inside Central Park and the hotel is being built on what is now green parkland.

This land was leased to Green Pilgrim Ltd and Akkeron Leisure Ltd in October 2011 and is currently subject to covenants that restrict what can be built on it. The purpose of the covenants is to protect both the park and the future of Plymouth Argyle.


The public has been led to believe that the development is contained within the area containing the stadium and the freehold Higher Home Park land whereas, in fact, it extends well into the green area of Central Park and will block off one of the most used pathways across the park.

The planned hotel is seven storeys high, as high as the Life Centre, and six storeys higher than the Marsh Mills Sainsburys. The site is almost the highest part of the park and would dominate some of the most natural areas of the park. The Akkeron computer-generated images indicate the hotel building is of poor design and no attempt has been made to create a building that is sympathetic to, or that will blend in with, the landscape of Central Park.

The permission to build on Cottage Field was integral to the Life Centre development but as that never went ahead at the time, that permission has now lapsed.
Tudor Evans has recently clearly stated in public that Cottage Field will not be built on.
The impact of a two-lane road coming into the heart of the park will be devastating. It will create continuous air, light and noise pollution. This will destroy the peace and tranquility of the park and have an adverse effect on all the wildlife. Escaping from traffic is a major reason why people visit parkland to relax and exercise. How can Akkeron say it will not be a 24 hour operation when there is a hotel and a taxi/mini bus set down point in Zoo Field? Will the hotel not be open 24hrs a day?
We have had one consultative meeting with James Brent and members of the Akkeron Group, at which Friends of Central Park made clear their opposition to the development.

Friends of Central Park fully support the building of a new grandstand at Argyle recognising how important Plymouth Argyle is financially to the City of Plymouth. However, we also have great concerns that the planned new grandstand will inhibit the growth of the club in the future.
JANICE HUNT
Acting chair
Friends of Central Park

At last. This is the definitive reply that represents why so many of us are against the plans in their current form.


Hallelujah sister.

17,400 Capacity
Take of 2,000 Away seating, take away a Minimum of 1,000 seats for segregation, your talking 14,000    home tickets for a team with alleged ambition to compete in the Championship.
This plan is utter bollocks

Tgwu wrote:

Plans are wrong for middle of park

 
THE Central Park Akkeron development is so large and will have such a huge impact on Central Park and its surrounds that it is of the utmost importance that we have honesty, openness and accuracy from the Akkeron Group.

Friends of Central Park believe that Akkeron, are cherry picking the information that they are putting out to the public.


It cannot be denied that this development is inside Central Park and the hotel is being built on what is now green parkland.

This land was leased to Green Pilgrim Ltd and Akkeron Leisure Ltd in October 2011 and is currently subject to covenants that restrict what can be built on it. The purpose of the covenants is to protect both the park and the future of Plymouth Argyle.


The public has been led to believe that the development is contained within the area containing the stadium and the freehold Higher Home Park land whereas, in fact, it extends well into the green area of Central Park and will block off one of the most used pathways across the park.

The planned hotel is seven storeys high, as high as the Life Centre, and six storeys higher than the Marsh Mills Sainsburys. The site is almost the highest part of the park and would dominate some of the most natural areas of the park. The Akkeron computer-generated images indicate the hotel building is of poor design and no attempt has been made to create a building that is sympathetic to, or that will blend in with, the landscape of Central Park.

The permission to build on Cottage Field was integral to the Life Centre development but as that never went ahead at the time, that permission has now lapsed.
Tudor Evans has recently clearly stated in public that Cottage Field will not be built on.
The impact of a two-lane road coming into the heart of the park will be devastating. It will create continuous air, light and noise pollution. This will destroy the peace and tranquility of the park and have an adverse effect on all the wildlife. Escaping from traffic is a major reason why people visit parkland to relax and exercise. How can Akkeron say it will not be a 24 hour operation when there is a hotel and a taxi/mini bus set down point in Zoo Field? Will the hotel not be open 24hrs a day?
We have had one consultative meeting with James Brent and members of the Akkeron Group, at which Friends of Central Park made clear their opposition to the development.

Friends of Central Park fully support the building of a new grandstand at Argyle recognising how important Plymouth Argyle is financially to the City of Plymouth. However, we also have great concerns that the planned new grandstand will inhibit the growth of the club in the future.
JANICE HUNT
Acting chair
Friends of Central Park

Now, that's how you protest sensibly - well done Janice Hunt!!

Greenjock wrote:

I reckon a huge percentage of Argyle fans/Plymouth residents are not looking into the details thoroughly. We've seen people like angry Andy soper still thinking that in future another 2000 or so seats can just be clipped on at the drop of a hat. That's because the Pasoti spin machine is in full swing.

So if you times this view by hundreds or even thousands then there are massive numbers of ill informed people going by some fancy drawings or what their mate told them down the pub.

Su pollard has always struck me as someone who doesn't get involved in all the shit and is just interested in watching Argyle and last night she posted that the FOCP are against development on green land and the AFT working group want cottage field used so why are they in partnership? That's because Ian Newell says they are and even though the AFT released a statement straight away saying the AFT didn't oppose the development as such and weren't teamed up with FOCP trying to get them stopped.

 Now Su has either chosen to ignore the AFT statement because it's too difficult for her to grasp that Ian Newells a cnut or she's so blinkered out of blind love of Brent, Webb and Newell that she can't be bothered to form her own opinion. And that's what I think is happening with lots of Argyle fans. They see new and shiny so they don't want to trawl through pages of plans.

The amount of Plymouth residents is irrelevant. Nowhere near all of these residents use central park so it doesn't bother them. It's sad to say it but most people don't give a shit until it's right on their back door.

I want a bigger capacity for Argyle, either straight away or proof from James Brent that extending the capacity in 5 years time is easy. I want more details of the road because somebody will get killed from how I read it at the moment.

I don't want a hotel, ice-rink and cinema next to the stadium, but if they have to be there in order to get the grandstand that the club needs then it's a case of putting up with it, and it's easy for me to say this because I'm not a Plymouth resident.

If the AFT could pin Brent down to answer peoples concerns then it might allay some peoples fears and concerns, but as we've seen already, James Brent isn't keen on actually being transparent like he promised 2 years ago.

Maybe if the AFT posted an open letter to James Brent in the Herald or wherever, asking for more details to be released then it would be embarrassing to Mr Brent if he refuses, especially as he has come out with alsorts of bullshit about how he supplied information and held consultations with anyone interested in the development. I still haven't received a reply from Akkeron to my points and of course the Pasoti Q and A session with Mr Brent is still unanswered more than 2 months down the line.

This is the bottom line for me. There are too many vague details floating around at the moment that remain unanswered. How Chris Webb can literally masturbate over these plans when key points are missing is just indicative of his blinkered view, where he, along with his tubby friend, are so far up Brent's backside that he could have shown plans of a grandstand made of Lego and they would be jumping with joy.

So if there aren't enough interested people in Plymouth willing to ask questions then obviously the majority will be Argyle fans and at the moment they are seduced by the neon lights and fresh paint to care.

The vagueness of the plans needs to be addressed. If it's the AFT who need to step up their efforts then let's do it, because at the moment I don't see enough interested parties who care about the detail. It's clear that a lot of Argyle fans wouldn't care if there were 2 hotels, 2 cinemas and 2 ice-rinks going to surround Home Park, they see a new stand and don't give a feck that it's the poor relation  of the development or that Brent has lied about the retail units and what the club are going to gain from them.

Agree with everything, particularly your last paragraph.

If the Trust don't at least contact all members with their views / recommendations for action etc. and put out press releases clearly drawing up battle lines, this clusterfuck will go ahead.
Many fans will turn their backs on the club and the trust will wither and die.

Czarcasm wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

Plans are wrong for middle of park

 
THE Central Park Akkeron development is so large and will have such a huge impact on Central Park and its surrounds that it is of the utmost importance that we have honesty, openness and accuracy from the Akkeron Group.

Friends of Central Park believe that Akkeron, are cherry picking the information that they are putting out to the public.


It cannot be denied that this development is inside Central Park and the hotel is being built on what is now green parkland.

This land was leased to Green Pilgrim Ltd and Akkeron Leisure Ltd in October 2011 and is currently subject to covenants that restrict what can be built on it. The purpose of the covenants is to protect both the park and the future of Plymouth Argyle.


The public has been led to believe that the development is contained within the area containing the stadium and the freehold Higher Home Park land whereas, in fact, it extends well into the green area of Central Park and will block off one of the most used pathways across the park.

The planned hotel is seven storeys high, as high as the Life Centre, and six storeys higher than the Marsh Mills Sainsburys. The site is almost the highest part of the park and would dominate some of the most natural areas of the park. The Akkeron computer-generated images indicate the hotel building is of poor design and no attempt has been made to create a building that is sympathetic to, or that will blend in with, the landscape of Central Park.

The permission to build on Cottage Field was integral to the Life Centre development but as that never went ahead at the time, that permission has now lapsed.
Tudor Evans has recently clearly stated in public that Cottage Field will not be built on.
The impact of a two-lane road coming into the heart of the park will be devastating. It will create continuous air, light and noise pollution. This will destroy the peace and tranquility of the park and have an adverse effect on all the wildlife. Escaping from traffic is a major reason why people visit parkland to relax and exercise. How can Akkeron say it will not be a 24 hour operation when there is a hotel and a taxi/mini bus set down point in Zoo Field? Will the hotel not be open 24hrs a day?
We have had one consultative meeting with James Brent and members of the Akkeron Group, at which Friends of Central Park made clear their opposition to the development.

Friends of Central Park fully support the building of a new grandstand at Argyle recognising how important Plymouth Argyle is financially to the City of Plymouth. However, we also have great concerns that the planned new grandstand will inhibit the growth of the club in the future.
JANICE HUNT
Acting chair
Friends of Central Park

At last. This is the definitive reply that represents why so many of us are against the plans in their current form.


Hallelujah sister.

Now we're talking. A concise easy to understand message as to why they oppose the current plans, but still recognising that a grandstand is needed for the club.

OH AND FAT cnut, NOTICE THERE'S NO MENTION OF A PACT WITH THE AFT EITHER. THAT'LL BE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE 

If anyone is thinking about registering their oppostion to the plans as they stand, they could do a lot worse than use this as a template.

Bearing in mind everyone that letters that have been copied and pasted are treated as one. Worth bringing your own language and slant on things...

that's everyone except you Jock  probably best to copy and paste. Calling Tudor Evans a cnut is probably not the best way to object

Postey's worried 

He's been reading ATD and seen the letter from the FOCP and is now having a panic wank whilst trying to land a Boeing 747 in a storm 

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Postey wrote

Quote :

At least the FoCP have now finally updated their website after being a year out of date.

Bit rich when it took Exeter fans to point out the site he manages was out of date my many years.

It's important that each objection is personal and in my opinion that's how it should be in any case.  We all have our own list of things that we want to see changed.  The more valid complaints, the more likely it is that the Secretary of State for  planning will become involved.  I think it's the only way that this will be challenged as from what I understand PCC, local councillors and Akkeron are all so loved up it will be nodded through.

Dougie wrote:

Postey wrote

Quote :

At least the FoCP have now finally updated their website after being a year out of date.

Bit rich when it took Exeter fans to point out the site he manages was out of date my many years.

People in glasshouses hey PL2 FACED.

Or should that be people in glasshouses, playing flight sims in your underpants.