The Soldier's Murder in Woolwich/Racism debate

Tringreen wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

90% of my work takes me away from Plymouth, so I'm more than just a little aware of what goes on outside of our Devon bubble.

Gassers post quoting the German fella is bang on in so many respects, and the overwhelming issue of radicalisation is borne of the FACT that a great many Muslim communities steadfastly refuse to integrate - in any way shape or form to a British way of life.

Quite simply, it is those communities that refuse to integrate, that are sowing the seeds of radicalisation against anything other than the Islamic faith.

Tis true.

Imagine christians trying to march like this in Tehran or Islamabad [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here's the "full" video of Tring's conveniently edited clip that appears to have been clipped for the sole purpose of creating and increasing the ill feeling being directed at Muslims.

The "full" video was made by the BBC and provides views from all sides of the fence and also an understanding that the vast majority of Muslims are condemning of the views of a small minority shown in that clip posted by Tring that was in my opinion, conveniently edited for the sole purpose to exploit bigoted agendas. It also shows the level of awareness that so called leaders of the EDL have that appear to me to be nothing less than thick.

There are wankers on both sides, thankfully they are both minorities and promoted by bigots to satisfy their own thirst to create disharmony. Neither belong in society and neither deserve to have the freedoms of expression because they wish to remove that freedom from others!

"Imagine christians trying to march like this in Tehran or Islamabad" - Now if one of those in that clip said that but swapped the cities to London or New York, wouldn't it be described as "radicalisation", or is that just a Muslim thing?

The depressing sight of that repulsive bald monkey william haig rejoicing at the ending of the UN arms embargo on Syria so he can can throw british weapons into the civil war. What the f*** is wrong with these bastards? Who gave the scumbag cameron the right to back these 'rebels' in my name? And back them for what? As a result the Russians are going to arm their long standing ally the Assad regime. We should keep out of this civil war and let it run it's natural course. If all the Syrian people want Assad gone badly enough then he'll be gone.

Freathy wrote:

The depressing sight of that repulsive bald monkey william haig rejoicing at the ending of the UN arms embargo on Syria so he can can throw british weapons into the civil war. What the f*** is wrong with these bastards? Who gave the scumbag cameron the right to back these 'rebels' in my name? And back them for what? As a result the Russians are going to arm their long standing ally the Assad regime. We should keep out of this civil war and let it run it's natural course. If all the Syrian people want Assad gone badly enough then he'll be gone.

The UN should be sending in peacekeepers not allowings arms deals.

Freathy wrote:

The depressing sight of that repulsive bald monkey william haig rejoicing at the ending of the UN arms embargo on Syria so he can can throw british weapons into the civil war. What the f*** is wrong with these bastards? Who gave the scumbag cameron the right to back these 'rebels' in my name? And back them for what? As a result the Russians are going to arm their long standing ally the Assad regime. We should keep out of this civil war and let it run it's natural course. If all the Syrian people want Assad gone badly enough then he'll be gone.

As predicted...

"Russia says it will deliver S-300 anti-aircraft missiles to Syria to help deter foreign intervention, as the EU decides to lift an arms embargo."

After the Woolwich murder, many british people are criticising our own country and our own democracy and our own government, now is not the time.
The intention of this attack was to divide us and radicalise us, therefore by turning on each other, we have fallen straight in to the trap the extremists wanted us to.
Getting on with our lives and standing together is the way to oppose Islam-ism.

Well Heaven forbid we criticise our own country and our own government! I thought it was the Islamists who wanted to do away with democracy? Or is 'my country, right or wrong' the kind of democracy you're looking to keep hold of?

Pitbull wrote:

After the Woolwich murder, many british people are criticising our own country and our own democracy and our own government, now is not the time.
The intention of this attack was to divide us and radicalise us, therefore by turning on each other, we have fallen straight in to the trap the extremists wanted us to.
Getting on with our lives and standing together is the way to oppose Islam-ism.

To oppose Islam-ism? feck off you jumped up little shot nosed tw@t.

And how did those BNP images get on your Twitter again Cobi? And before you deny it someone posted the pictures on here direct from your Twitter account.

I'm ready for the first banning that isn't Paul Thomas for overtly racist and bigoted views along with being a little cnut that nobody likes, other than Ponty.

I think you mean Radical Islamism Cobi?

I don't think the country is falling into the trap either. Shit newspapers like the Sun may want us to think that by running stories about the soldier's ex-wife crying whilst the Cameron's are on holiday (reminded me of the way they hounded Luke McCormick after his release) and that its a national crisis.

GOB wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

90% of my work takes me away from Plymouth, so I'm more than just a little aware of what goes on outside of our Devon bubble.

Gassers post quoting the German fella is bang on in so many respects, and the overwhelming issue of radicalisation is borne of the FACT that a great many Muslim communities steadfastly refuse to integrate - in any way shape or form to a British way of life.

Quite simply, it is those communities that refuse to integrate, that are sowing the seeds of radicalisation against anything other than the Islamic faith.

Tis true.

Imagine christians trying to march like this in Tehran or Islamabad [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here's the "full" video of Tring's conveniently edited clip that appears to have been clipped for the sole purpose of creating and increasing the ill feeling being directed at Muslims.

The "full" video was made by the BBC and provides views from all sides of the fence and also an understanding that the vast majority of Muslims are condemning of the views of a small minority shown in that clip posted by Tring that was in my opinion, conveniently edited for the sole purpose to exploit bigoted agendas. It also shows the level of awareness that so called leaders of the EDL have that appear to me to be nothing less than thick.

There are wankers on both sides, thankfully they are both minorities and promoted by bigots to satisfy their own thirst to create disharmony. Neither belong in society and neither deserve to have the freedoms of expression because they wish to remove that freedom from others!

"Imagine christians trying to march like this in Tehran or Islamabad" - Now if one of those in that clip said that but swapped the cities to London or New York, wouldn't it be described as "radicalisation", or is that just a Muslim thing?

I wasn't aware that the clip was part of a longer documentary and I don't understand what you are suggesting in your last sentence.

In case you have forgotten, there continues to be a huge Islamic terrorist threat on the streets of the UK and everywhere in the world. The muslim communities in the UK could do more to expose the radicals in their midst and the UK government could do more to lock them away.

I condemn any extremist groups and those like the EDL should be similarly exposed and controlled.

ps have just skipped through the whole video and it would appear to provide a realistic snapshot of the bigger picture and why there are likely to be ongoing inter community problems. Even taking away the terrorist threat, there remains a deep divide between large sections of the population.

Greenjock wrote:

Pitbull wrote:

After the Woolwich murder, many british people are criticising our own country and our own democracy and our own government, now is not the time.
The intention of this attack was to divide us and radicalise us, therefore by turning on each other, we have fallen straight in to the trap the extremists wanted us to.
Getting on with our lives and standing together is the way to oppose Islam-ism.

To oppose Islam-ism? feck off you jumped up little shot nosed tw@t.

And how did those BNP images get on your Twitter again Cobi? And before you deny it someone posted the pictures on here direct from your Twitter account.

I'm ready for the first banning that isn't Paul Thomas for overtly racist and bigoted views along with being a little cnut that nobody likes, other than Ponty.

Islam-ism isn't Islam. Islam-ism is a radical ideology which is full of hatred, Islamists are happy to pick up a chopping knife and go murder a few guys, to other Islamists, that makes them a good Muslim.

BNP photos? what on earth are you spouting now?

So it's racist to condemn radical Islam? It's racist that I want radical Islam out of the UK?

Many people on here should go join Militant Islamic groups, you seem to hate white British people that much.

Pitbull wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Pitbull wrote:

After the Woolwich murder, many british people are criticising our own country and our own democracy and our own government, now is not the time.
The intention of this attack was to divide us and radicalise us, therefore by turning on each other, we have fallen straight in to the trap the extremists wanted us to.
Getting on with our lives and standing together is the way to oppose Islam-ism.

To oppose Islam-ism? feck off you jumped up little shot nosed tw@t.

And how did those BNP images get on your Twitter again Cobi? And before you deny it someone posted the pictures on here direct from your Twitter account.

I'm ready for the first banning that isn't Paul Thomas for overtly racist and bigoted views along with being a little cnut that nobody likes, other than Ponty.

Islam-ism isn't Islam. Islam-ism is a radical ideology which is full of hatred, Islamists are happy to pick up a chopping knife and go murder a few guys, to other Islamists, that makes them a good Muslim.

BNP photos? what on earth are you spouting now?

So it's racist to condemn radical Islam? It's racist that I want radical Islam out of the UK?

Many people on here should go join Militant Islamic groups, you seem to hate white British people that much.

Stop stirring please Cobi. It does you no credit.

Pitbull wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Pitbull wrote:

After the Woolwich murder, many british people are criticising our own country and our own democracy and our own government, now is not the time.
The intention of this attack was to divide us and radicalise us, therefore by turning on each other, we have fallen straight in to the trap the extremists wanted us to.
Getting on with our lives and standing together is the way to oppose Islam-ism.

To oppose Islam-ism? feck off you jumped up little shot nosed tw@t.

And how did those BNP images get on your Twitter again Cobi? And before you deny it someone posted the pictures on here direct from your Twitter account.

I'm ready for the first banning that isn't Paul Thomas for overtly racist and bigoted views along with being a little cnut that nobody likes, other than Ponty.

Islam-ism isn't Islam. Islam-ism is a radical ideology which is full of hatred, Islamists are happy to pick up a chopping knife and go murder a few guys, to other Islamists, that makes them a good Muslim.

BNP photos? what on earth are you spouting now?

So it's racist to condemn radical Islam? It's racist that I want radical Islam out of the UK?

You talk out of your ass Cobi. In fact I reckon if I could be bothered to search online I could find your post virtually word for word made recently by Nick Griffin, who isn't a racist according to you, or Tommy whatsisname who actually isn't called Tommy from the EDL.

Recently images from your Twitter were posted on here with a union jack with BNP on it, and remember you were on my Twitter Cobi until your very recent decision to save the world from the power crazy Muslims who are starring in the next Bond film. A group of sword wielding megalomaniacs who live in a dormant volcano somewhere in the middle of the ocean which is actually the launchpad for their magic carpets.

Youmake out that what happened last week is a regular occurrence in Britain, which is bollocks. It was an isolated horrific incident, just like three weeks before when a Muslim was hacked to death returning from prayers at a mosque in Birmingham, and he was un his 70's.

You should visit the Hope not hate site too, instead of just the BNP site, you will see that yesterday in York the EDL planned to demonstrate outside a mosque so the Muslims decided to meet them head on and made them cups of tea and welcomed the EDL to have a look around and chat. I'll put up the link later if you like.

Hardly looking to take over the world is it? Cups of tea and custard creams?

Now feck off until you've grown up a bit Cobi. Your views are juvenile and just copied and pasted straight from far right websites and it makes you look like an attention seeking little tosspot.

Disappointed that I have not had a reply from the Plymouth Islamic Education Trust. I emailed them last week asking for their views on how hard working British Muslims could and should be expressing their condemnation of the Islamist radicalisation of their youth.

I have spent some time over the past week reading much from both sides of the argument and do find myself shifting slightly. GOB's old strapline of good men doing nothing for evil to succeed does seem to bare truth in this debate and I am not sure that the vast majority of Anglicised Muslims are doing enough to halt the rise of the minority fanatics. The Choudarys of this world are given a platform in certain Mosques and are not shouted down.

Tommy/Steven/whatever, leader of the EDL has certainly tapped into a deep routed vein of enough's enough up and down the country. It is a dangerous moment and I have absolutely no confidence in this Government's ability to calm the situation. Storming Syria next - just more of the old Etonian 'we'll do what we want because we are the ruling class' - will do nothing to help the situation.

Isolated incident uummmm. 24 Islamic terrorist have been jailed in this country in the last 5 weeks

The English Civil War Part 1(1642–1651).

Part 11 (2013 - ......................?)

Ok, I'm not entirely serious, but, Cameron and his fellow cunthorts, sorry cohorts, need to grasp the nettle here, take control of a situation that could easily spill over into major civil unrest, or more! He needs to show guidance and strength in leadership. People are genuinely worried out there.

Hey Dave, what you gonna do?

Cameron - 'feckoff, I'm on the piss in Ibiza, init' big fish little fish, and all that, init!

Its been a lovely day to today

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Disappointed that I have not had a reply from the Plymouth Islamic Education Trust. I emailed them last week asking for their views on how hard working British Muslims could and should be expressing their condemnation of the Islamist radicalisation of their youth.

I have spent some time over the past week reading much from both sides of the argument and do find myself shifting slightly. GOB's old strapline of good men doing nothing for evil to succeed does seem to bare truth in this debate and I am not sure that the vast majority of Anglicised Muslims are doing enough to halt the rise of the minority fanatics. The Choudarys of this world are given a platform in certain Mosques and are not shouted down.

Tommy/Steven/whatever, leader of the EDL has certainly tapped into a deep routed vein of enough's enough up and down the country. It is a dangerous moment and I have absolutely no confidence in this Government's ability to calm the situation. Storming Syria next - just more of the old Etonian 'we'll do what we want because we are the ruling class' - will do nothing to help the situation.

That's surprising Damon. As a Jewish man, are you socially bound to denounce the actions of Israel when they contravene the Geneva convention? I wouldn't even think to ask you to let alone expect you to. What exactly are they supposed to say?

I'm baffled as to why this thread has been renamed too - it links immigration with the murder that happened in London and it really shouldn't. If a murder happened in Cyprus involving a non-Cypriat, would we expect Tring to publicly denounce it and then create a thread that links non-Cypriats with 'murders in Cyprus'?

Penz gone again! who's fault was it this time? i like penz but i think he's slightly to sensitive for a football forum.

Cobi the "Conservative" It's worth checking out who he follows on Twitter. Amongst them several BNP and EDL accounts, EDL St George, numerous White Nationalist groups, National Front followers and anti-Zionist groups. About as extreme to the right as you can get.

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He's deleted a lot of posts so his tweets only start about 2 weeks ago to conveniently hide the worst ones I suppose.

I'm all for banning Cobi because he is a racist and is using ATD to spout his racist nonsense.

hairy j wrote:

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Disappointed that I have not had a reply from the Plymouth Islamic Education Trust. I emailed them last week asking for their views on how hard working British Muslims could and should be expressing their condemnation of the Islamist radicalisation of their youth.

I have spent some time over the past week reading much from both sides of the argument and do find myself shifting slightly. GOB's old strapline of good men doing nothing for evil to succeed does seem to bare truth in this debate and I am not sure that the vast majority of Anglicised Muslims are doing enough to halt the rise of the minority fanatics. The Choudarys of this world are given a platform in certain Mosques and are not shouted down.

Tommy/Steven/whatever, leader of the EDL has certainly tapped into a deep routed vein of enough's enough up and down the country. It is a dangerous moment and I have absolutely no confidence in this Government's ability to calm the situation. Storming Syria next - just more of the old Etonian 'we'll do what we want because we are the ruling class' - will do nothing to help the situation.

That's surprising Damon. As a Jewish man, are you socially bound to denounce the actions of Israel when they contravene the Geneva convention? I wouldn't even think to ask you to let alone expect you to. What exactly are they supposed to say?

I'm baffled as to why this thread has been renamed too - it links immigration with the murder that happened in London and it really shouldn't. If a murder happened in Cyprus involving a non-Cypriat, would we expect Tring to publicly denounce it and then create a thread that links non-Cypriats with 'murders in Cyprus'?

Two things HJ - Firstly I am Jewish in that I was born to Jewish parents, circumcised and had a barmitzvah. My perfect Saturday was toasted bacon sandwiches with my grandfather before going to football so never really been practising but in late teens/early twentis realised that there was no omnipotent superbeing guiding us and so am now a atheist. Secondly being Jewish does not make me a Zionist. I have, do and will criticise Israel on a number of breaches of human rights. The State of Israel is a Jewish state. Not all Jews are Israeli or Zionist.

Radio5live sent out a direct challenge to all Muslims the other night,when it asked for them to hold a rally/march in Central London to denounce the Islamic extremists within the UK [I would like to see that too,perhaps they could get all faiths to take part also so that they can ram home the message].

They argued that such a gesture would go along way to healing a steadily growing rift between the population over the murder of Lee Rigby.

The shocking events of that murder,along with the spraying painting vandalism on a war memorial [also in London],just goes to show what the majority of these Islamic extremists think about this Country.

The spray painting vandalism on the war memorial has disgusted a great many to the core [although some belief that Right-Wing thugs may have done this,rather than Islamic extremists. I find that rather crass in outlook].

It is of paramount importance that decent Muslims in the UK march in support of British values/what it means and what it stands for,while turning the vile on to those that seek extremist radicalisation as a way out or forward.

The Woman from Cornwall deserves all the praise she gets..

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If this Country has to go down a totalitarian route to wipe out and destroy the Islamic extremist threat on these shores,then so be it. I would not be too chuffed if it were to happen,but the needs of security come first.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Disappointed that I have not had a reply from the Plymouth Islamic Education Trust. I emailed them last week asking for their views on how hard working British Muslims could and should be expressing their condemnation of the Islamist radicalisation of their youth.

I have spent some time over the past week reading much from both sides of the argument and do find myself shifting slightly. GOB's old strapline of good men doing nothing for evil to succeed does seem to bare truth in this debate and I am not sure that the vast majority of Anglicised Muslims are doing enough to halt the rise of the minority fanatics. The Choudarys of this world are given a platform in certain Mosques and are not shouted down.

Tommy/Steven/whatever, leader of the EDL has certainly tapped into a deep routed vein of enough's enough up and down the country. It is a dangerous moment and I have absolutely no confidence in this Government's ability to calm the situation. Storming Syria next - just more of the old Etonian 'we'll do what we want because we are the ruling class' - will do nothing to help the situation.

That's surprising Damon. As a Jewish man, are you socially bound to denounce the actions of Israel when they contravene the Geneva convention? I wouldn't even think to ask you to let alone expect you to. What exactly are they supposed to say?

I'm baffled as to why this thread has been renamed too - it links immigration with the murder that happened in London and it really shouldn't. If a murder happened in Cyprus involving a non-Cypriat, would we expect Tring to publicly denounce it and then create a thread that links non-Cypriats with 'murders in Cyprus'?

Two things HJ - Firstly I am Jewish in that I was born to Jewish parents, circumcised and had a barmitzvah. My perfect Saturday was toasted bacon sandwiches with my grandfather before going to football so never really been practising but in late teens/early twentis realised that there was no omnipotent superbeing guiding us and so am now a atheist. Secondly being Jewish does not make me a Zionist. I have, do and will criticise Israel on a number of breaches of human rights. The State of Israel is a Jewish state. Not all Jews are Israeli or Zionist.

That was my point. I had one 'Muslim' friend at school. An Iranian. His parents moved here after the Iranian revolution. He wasn't a practicing Muslim. On the surface though, to those who didn't know him personally, he was a Muslim even though he wasn't. Lumping people into 'Muslim' and 'non-Muslim' and expecting the 'Muslim community' to come out and denounce this is ridiculous. How can a 'Muslim community' speak in unity as a collective when that 'collective' isn't a collective at all.

It's easy HJ. Stop the radicals preaching in their Mosques.
Publically demonstrate against Islamists.
There must be hundreds of thousands/millions of Muslims who feel Choudary is a threat to all of our way of life - it is time now for all of us to hear that voice. But as yet that voice is silent.

I frankly don't see why anyone needs to march anywhere to defend themselves when they shouldn't be on trial of national opinion in the first place. If, everytime something happened that was horribly disgusting, people had to march then people would be on the streets all of the time. The male population for one who all get it in the neck for paedophiles and rapists. I'm involved in neither and am as disgusted as the next person but don't feel I need to march to emphasise that opinion. The Islamic Council who are the voice of the vast majority of Muslims in this Country have made their statement which is as unequivocal as it could be and it should be accepted.

The other point is about something Iggy said on here previously regarding facts being no more than opinion. I would like to say that I told you all that several times weeks ago regarding things that appear on the internet becoming facts when they aren't. If you write something and people read it and agree it becomes fact very quickly except all you actually have is agreement with somebodies expressed opinion. The more often you say it the more it is believed. All, or pretty much all, of this thread is opinion and only that based on something somebody has read or heard somewhere and chosen to believe. I doubt there are many who would claim to be expert in the subject and have studied it in great depth.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Disappointed that I have not had a reply from the Plymouth Islamic Education Trust. I emailed them last week asking for their views on how hard working British Muslims could and should be expressing their condemnation of the Islamist radicalisation of their youth.

I have spent some time over the past week reading much from both sides of the argument and do find myself shifting slightly. GOB's old strapline of good men doing nothing for evil to succeed does seem to bare truth in this debate and I am not sure that the vast majority of Anglicised Muslims are doing enough to halt the rise of the minority fanatics. The Choudarys of this world are given a platform in certain Mosques and are not shouted down.

Tommy/Steven/whatever, leader of the EDL has certainly tapped into a deep routed vein of enough's enough up and down the country. It is a dangerous moment and I have absolutely no confidence in this Government's ability to calm the situation. Storming Syria next - just more of the old Etonian 'we'll do what we want because we are the ruling class' - will do nothing to help the situation.

That's surprising Damon. As a Jewish man, are you socially bound to denounce the actions of Israel when they contravene the Geneva convention? I wouldn't even think to ask you to let alone expect you to. What exactly are they supposed to say?

I'm baffled as to why this thread has been renamed too - it links immigration with the murder that happened in London and it really shouldn't. If a murder happened in Cyprus involving a non-Cypriat, would we expect Tring to publicly denounce it and then create a thread that links non-Cypriats with 'murders in Cyprus'?

Two things HJ - Firstly I am Jewish in that I was born to Jewish parents, circumcised and had a barmitzvah. My perfect Saturday was toasted bacon sandwiches with my grandfather before going to football so never really been practising but in late teens/early twentis realised that there was no omnipotent superbeing guiding us and so am now a atheist. Secondly being Jewish does not make me a Zionist. I have, do and will criticise Israel on a number of breaches of human rights. The State of Israel is a Jewish state. Not all Jews are Israeli or Zionist.

Zionists are up there with the EDL for me you just cant talking reason with them. If you speak to them Israel has never done anything wrong treats its neighbours like gods and always seeks peace..