James Brent's vision for the club is sustainable

James Brent has been extraordinarily consistent. Since he took over he hasn't deviated one jot from the aims for the club that he outlined at the outset. In the short term as I remember it this essentially boiled down to:

1. Get out of administration
2. Support the club for around 12 months while the historic (interpret as unaffordable) player contracts expire.
3. From that point the club has to be self-sufficient

In the longer term:

4. Secure status as a league club
5. Begin to challenge for promotion
6. Eventually regain and secure CCC status
7. Sell club to somebody who can finance a push to the PL

So it is against this loose framework that Brent's plans for Home Park must be judged.

Recently Brent has said that his stadium plan will generate £1-2m in "net income". I'm not sure about exactly what net income means but in the light of the club's historic financial performance which peaked at about £10m income per year that suggests that the limit to our income (unless we sell a player or two for huge money) will be about £12M max per year. In fact it probably won't even be that high due to the lower capacity of the new stadium but as a figure to bandy about it will do.

So how does this level of self-sustainability support the club in our attempt to re-secure CCC status because as far as I can it does not and it probably isn't much more than half of what might be required to be sustainable at CCC level.

Has Brent ever actually said that the limit of his ambition for the club is for it to be a League 1 and League 2 yo-yo club? I ask because in reality that is all that his stated plans will allow for.

And if that is the limit to his vision then how can any Argyle fan be supportive when virtually all of our history has seen us as a club that yo-yoes a whole league higher between the CCC and League 1?

Brent's plans will permanently re-calibrate the future that we might hope the club could enjoy and his more recent proposals to increase capacity if it is needed will as likely as not never get tested because we won't even be close to ever being strong enough to put them to the test unless we consistently fill the ground at League 1 level.

We should be applauding Brent for giving Argyle a new stand that will be perfectly adequate for everything the club is ever likely to achieve and not endlessly bitching about roads, cinemas, trees, ice rinks and all the rest. And we should be applauding Brent for drawing up a visionary plan than is actually future-proofed by itself.

All we have to do is accept that we are a poxy little tinpot nonentity, as football clubs go, and we will never be anything different by design.

"Plymouth Argyle run by a millionaire and manfully striving to be mediocre" could be the new "run by fans for fans".

point 7 will fall flat if he doesnt get why so many want the new stand to be built with the future ambitions in mind and not built for league 2 standard only.

This is what the superfans fail to realise. We can all see it, why not them?

Han Solos Other Ship wrote:

This is what the superfans fail to realise. We can all see it, why not them?

They are too thick to see the potential and in addition, by keeping the club boxed in as a cosy lower league Avivafest, they can run the show.

Greatest fans in the world............. my arse !

Really can't get my head around the fact Web, Nool etc are happy to be at this level as long as they get something out of it. We'd all give our right arms for Argyle to be in the Premier league

Han Solos Other Ship wrote:

Really can't get my head around the fact Web, Nool etc are happy to be at this level as long as they get something out of it. We'd all give our right arms for Argyle to be in the Premier league

the lower in the leagues we are the more important they feel around the club

Han Solos Other Ship wrote:

Really can't get my head around the fact Web, Nool etc are happy to be at this level as long as they get something out of it. We'd all give our right arms for Argyle to be in the Premier league

Not sure I'd go that far

Well, maybe not

I just don't get how any fan would put some dreamed up false position in the club above achieving on the pitch. Madness.

Han Solos Other Ship wrote:

Well, maybe not

I just don't get how any fan would put some dreamed up false position in the club above achieving on the pitch. Madness.

It is a power and position thing, allied to a blinkered view on the potential of the club. Even when it is delivered to them very slowly and clearly they still wail 'Apathetic Janners' and settle for mediocrity.............. even more so if they have a seat in the directors' box

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

All we have to do is accept that we are a poxy little tinpot nonentity, as football clubs go.

No doub,t but that has got feck all to do with Brent.

FFS take a step back and look at yourselves, look at the sides going up to the Chumpionship this year:- Donny, cap 12k; B'muff, cap 11kish; Poss Brentford, cap 12k or the epitome of tinpot, Yeovil who would have an all seater cap of arond 6k.

Now look at who isn't going up, Sheff U, a huge club with a big ground, 30k odd, and a real history unlike your delusional one.

It ain't about ooh look at me ground or billy big bollox fans, it's about good management putting together a decent side on, in the case of Yeovil, three fifths of five eigths of feck all, backed by good support from a united fan base.

Usury Brent's deals are going to give you a half decent ground for which when you add up the cost to PAFC, including the pitch itself, would be, let me see, ah yes, fook all.

You is the biggest bunch of, I want it and I want it now, spoilt kids I have ever come across.

Man up FFS !

Rough night m8?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

All we have to do is accept that we are a poxy little tinpot nonentity, as football clubs go.

No doub,t but that has got feck all to do with Brent.

FFS take a step back and look at yourselves, look at the sides going up to the Chumpionship this year:- Donny, cap 12k; B'muff, cap 11kish; Poss Brentford, cap 12k or the epitome of tinpot, Yeovil who would have an all seater cap of arond 6k.

Now look at who isn't going up, Sheff U, a huge club with a big ground, 30k odd, and a real history unlike your delusional one.

It ain't about ooh look at me ground or billy big bollox fans, it's about good management putting together a decent side on, in the case of Yeovil, three fifths of five eigths of feck all, backed by good support from a united fan base.

Usury Brent's deals are going to give you a half decent ground for which when you add up the cost to PAFC, including the pitch itself, would be, let me see, ah yes, fook all.

You is the biggest bunch of, I want it and I want it now, spoilt kids I have ever come across.

Man up FFS !

That would be the good support that resulted in an average gate of 4072 in this,their play off reaching season, season,would it? They won't survive more than a couple of seasons in the championship,whereas Sheffield United certainly will and Argyle would as well, given the right sort of directorship.Actually that sort of figure [4072] must give you some hope but i wouldn't bank on it judging by the interview that the leader of your trust gave in the WMN today.As for our wannabe mentality-you just don't understand us and i wouldn't expect you to.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

All we have to do is accept that we are a poxy little tinpot nonentity, as football clubs go.

No doub,t but that has got feck all to do with Brent.

FFS take a step back and look at yourselves, look at the sides going up to the Chumpionship this year:- Donny, cap 12k; B'muff, cap 11kish; Poss Brentford, cap 12k or the epitome of tinpot, Yeovil who would have an all seater cap of arond 6k.

Now look at who isn't going up, Sheff U, a huge club with a big ground, 30k odd, and a real history unlike your delusional one.

It ain't about ooh look at me ground or billy big bollox fans, it's about good management putting together a decent side on, in the case of Yeovil, three fifths of five eigths of feck all, backed by good support from a united fan base.

Usury Brent's deals are going to give you a half decent ground for which when you add up the cost to PAFC, including the pitch itself, would be, let me see, ah yes, fook all.

You is the biggest bunch of, I want it and I want it now, spoilt kids I have ever come across.

Man up FFS !

We want as much as we can get out of Brent, why should that greedy bastard have it all his own way?

Greenskin wrote:

It ain't about ooh look at me ground or billy big bollox fans, it's about good management putting together a decent side on, in the case of Yeovil, three fifths of five eigths of feck all, backed by good support from a united fan base.

That would be the good support that resulted in an average gate of 4072 in this,their play off reaching season, season,would it? They won't survive more than a couple of seasons in the championship,whereas Sheffield United certainly will and Argyle would as well, given the right sort of directorship.Actually that sort of figure [4072] must give you some hope but i wouldn't bank on it judging by the interview that the leader of your trust gave in the WMN today.As for our wannabe mentality-you just don't understand us and i wouldn't expect you to.[/quote]

Oh dear, English Comprehension not your strong point then.

"a united fan base" doesn't denote size, it merely refers to attitude, none of the four teams in question have massive support, the difference is their support tends to get behind the team whereas all your lot do is bitch about getting a brand new £10m stand for nixes, oh, I'm forgetting the other difference, 3 of the 4 will be watching Championship football next season and even the team that misses out will still be a league above the "sleeping giants".

How hard do you think it is to understand you delusional muppets? You need a reality check, I've had mine, like a fool I thought Trust ownership meant fan engagement, I was wrong, it means a few Suits dig in like ticks and then bleed you dry, at least Usury Brent tells you how it is going to be and has organised you the Diddy Stand which, if left to your own Janneresque devices you wouldn't have achieved in the next millenium.

Exactly this club would have been dead and buried without James Brent.The trust scheme of things would never ever had worked at Argyle as they lack the necessary finance that James Brent brings to the table,and by all accounts the business knowledge of costing a new grandstand as well.

greensleeves wrote:

Exactly this club would have been dead and buried without James Brent.The trust scheme of things would never ever had worked at Argyle as they lack the necessary finance that James Brent brings to the table,and by all accounts the business knowledge of costing a new grandstand as well.

This is an Argyle supporters site. Brent supporters site is here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Freathy...this is supposed to be an democratic argyle supporters site where all views are acceptable not just anti ones.Democratic is part of the title,however you and daresay 99% of posters on here tend to forget that and hurl abuse at anyone who dares to challenge the party line.This site really does need to get the democratic message across if it wants to be a mainstream player.

It is a mainstream site the farm is dying on it's feet.

greensleeves wrote:

Exactly this club would have been dead and buried without James Brent.The trust scheme of things would never ever had worked at Argyle as they lack the necessary finance that James Brent brings to the table,and by all accounts the business knowledge of costing a new grandstand as well.

Everyone's eternally grateful to Mr Brent for saving us from being really shit and delivering us 21st place in Division 4.

I for one can't wait for the new season where Mr Brent provides less of a budget to the manager than last time. God only knows where we'd be without Brent's charitable intervention

greensleeves wrote:

Freathy...this is supposed to be an democratic argyle supporters site where all views are acceptable not just anti ones.Democratic is part of the title,however you and daresay 99% of posters on here tend to forget that and hurl abuse at anyone who dares to challenge the party line.This site really does need to get the democratic message across if it wants to be a mainstream player.

99% isn't true.

Here's some middle ground. I could make Argyle sustainable. I ran a Sunday League club for five years. We needed about £800 a year and I raised that. The difference is, we're a proper league club with aspiration. None of us really believe we're Premiership bound but we shouldn't be a League 2 side either. That's why people are angry. There's a difference between sustainability and aspirational ambition.

We have an owner who wouldn't scrimp on a hotel who is scrimping on our club.

greensleeves wrote:

Freathy...this is supposed to be an democratic argyle supporters site where all views are acceptable not just anti ones.Democratic is part of the title,however you and daresay 99% of posters on here tend to forget that and hurl abuse at anyone who dares to challenge the party line.This site really does need to get the democratic message across if it wants to be a mainstream player.

The majority of contributors to this site don't appreciate the stunt Brent is trying to pull to the detriment of the football club. Whereas you're pro-Brent. Do you think people are going to tread on eggshells so as to not hurt your feelings?

Jeez, if you think people have been "hurling abuse" your way, you wanna stick around. I doubt you're even barely on Jocks radar yet...

greensleeves wrote:

Exactly this club would have been dead and buried without James Brent..

Still peddling that old line then.

Actually, no, it wouldn't.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

greensleeves wrote:

Exactly this club would have been dead and buried without James Brent..

Still peddling that old line then.

Actually, no, it wouldn't.

yes plympton all the brent rimmers tell the speccy one saved us, but no one really knows the truth.all i know is we have nearly been relegated out of the football league two years running under the great leader, he's been a disaster up to now.

greensleeves wrote:

Freathy...this is supposed to be an democratic argyle supporters site where all views are acceptable not just anti ones.Democratic is part of the title,however you and daresay 99% of posters on here tend to forget that and hurl abuse at anyone who dares to challenge the party line.This site really does need to get the democratic message across if it wants to be a mainstream player.

You're a bit late on that one, being the largest Independent site for Argyle fans is mainstream enough I would say, so smile GS, your newly acquired membership is on solid footing, it's a pity the grandstand won't be.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Has Brent ever actually said that the limit of his ambition for the club is for it to be a League 1 and League 2 yo-yo club? I ask because in reality that is all that his stated plans will allow for.

I agree with much of the rest of your post and I am staunchly against the new stand but I'd take issue with this. 17,400 would still be one of the biggest grounds in League One- I don't think it would restrict us to being a L1/L2 yoyo club at all but what I do think is that it will severely decrease the time we spend in the Championship yeah. We've played in the second tier for roughly 50% of the last 50 years. I don't think it will be as many years as that for the next 50 years if we're stuck with this stand.

Yoyo club between the third and fourth tier? Not quite as bad as that in my opinion- but certainly it'll decrease our 'average' level yeah.