Cmon then Brent

Get us some players.

Ya know, good ones if possible.

The type who'll keep us from relegation.

I wonder who'll be 'itk' under this regime.

If you're reading, James, feel free ter pop me a pm of Argyle's targets and/or goss. I'll look supercool then.

Careful Mock, Andy Soapbox will start an angry thread against 'janners' not supporting the club (like he did on tony)- it wasn't Stapes fault for the mess he caused-it was all the janners' fault

You don't want to start getting into arguments with the Pasoti hierarchy when they suggest that the fickle fans/too-demanding fans/missing fans/plastics/glory hunters (delete as applicable) are to blame for the current mess (or is it the previous mess now?) - you might find yourself in a position where you've started a new job so need to change the email address that your pasoti account is linked to, and when you do change it they don't re-authorise it so you can't post on there.

Oh...

Nick wrote:

You don't want to start getting into arguments with the Pasoti hierarchy when they suggest that the fickle fans/too-demanding fans/missing fans/plastics/glory hunters (delete as applicable) are to blame for the current mess (or is it the previous mess now?) - you might find yourself in a position where you've started a new job so need to change the email address that your pasoti account is linked to, and when you do change it they don't re-authorise it so you can't post on there.

Oh...

Made I laff!

funny man wrote:

Nick wrote:

You don't want to start getting into arguments with the Pasoti hierarchy when they suggest that the fickle fans/too-demanding fans/missing fans/plastics/glory hunters (delete as applicable) are to blame for the current mess (or is it the previous mess now?) - you might find yourself in a position where you've started a new job so need to change the email address that your pasoti account is linked to, and when you do change it they don't re-authorise it so you can't post on there.

Oh...

Made I laff!

Me too ! Sadly, it is the way things are. What are they afraid of ?

Chemical Ali wrote:

Careful Mock, Andy Soapbox will start an angry thread against 'janners' not supporting the club (like he did on tony)- it wasn't Stapes fault for the mess he caused-it was all the janners' fault

It was never ALL the fault of the fans but at a particular point in history, they share some of the blame.

There really was NO excuse for crowds to start dropping during Holloways 'nearly' season. There were truly excellent players, playing trully excellent football at the business end of the championship. That said Stapleton had already (IMHO) committed the cardinal sin of pushing the boat out a wee bit too far. A Janner, more than any other chairman, should know the mind of the Janner football fan and tailored Argyles cloth accordingly. That's where it all started to go wrong for me, and yes, late in the Holloway reign the fanbase DID share some of the blame. What would we give for players and performances like that now, well they were there but far from coming to watch them, gates dropped.

Anyways, back to Brent. Never at any point was there a suggestion he was going to bankroll a rocket launch up the leagues. It'll be a modest 'slowly slowly catchy monkey', just as it should always be. Within our means and not a penny more. Opinions will vary but that's always been my view on it. Stepping away from that core principle started the problems, given all we've been through you'd think we'd have learnt to be careful what we wish for.

X Isle wrote:

Chemical Ali wrote:

Careful Mock, Andy Soapbox will start an angry thread against 'janners' not supporting the club (like he did on tony)- it wasn't Stapes fault for the mess he caused-it was all the janners' fault

It was never ALL the fault of the fans but at a particular point in history, they share some of the blame.

There really was NO excuse for crowds to start dropping during Holloways 'nearly' season. There were truly excellent players, playing trully excellent football at the business end of the championship. That said Stapleton had already (IMHO) committed the cardinal sin of pushing the boat out a wee bit too far. A Janner, more than any other chairman, should know the mind of the Janner football fan and tailored Argyles cloth accordingly. That's where it all started to go wrong for me, and yes, late in the Holloway reign the fanbase DID share some of the blame. What would we give for players and performances like that now, well they were there but far from coming to watch them, gates dropped.

Anyways, back to Brent. Never at any point was there a suggestion he was going to bankroll a rocket launch up the leagues. It'll be a modest 'slowly slowly catchy monkey', just as it should always be. Within our means and not a penny more. Opinions will vary but that's always been my view on it. Stepping away from that core principle started the problems, given all we've been through you'd think we'd have learnt to be careful what we wish for.

The very fact that Stapleton and co were clearly intent on not letting anyone else buy in, or better still buy them out, meant that the decline was inevitable. You can't keep players and staff with growing reputations on a shoestring budget and at a half cocked club with no cash backed ambition. They got greedy. They were ably supported by the likes of Pasoti and dissenting/warning voices like my good self were silenced. Trust in Stapes ! Had a Manderic come to Argyle and supported Holloway financially, the crowds would have grown because it wasn't a case of 'same old Argo'. I remember well, the likes of Stapleton and Newell blaming stay away Janners at the time. If another few thousand had turned up it might have been different but I doubt it. In any case, that's not how it works for a club with our history of missed opportunities.
And for the 1000th time, fanbases are only cemented 'after' a spell in the top flight.
Encouragingly, Brent has already stated his realisation of what is needed at a club like ours when next we reach the 2nd tier.
There is absolutely no reason why Argyle in the Prem can't be as big or bigger than several currently enjoying the ride.

"Encouragingly, Brent has already stated his realisation of what is needed at a club like ours when next we reach the 2nd tier".

Indeed, the man certainly has vision alright, he's thinking many many chess moves ahead. He's said his destiny would be to walk away at that point but I suspect he'll find better people to pass the club onto than Stapes found.

X Isle wrote:

"Encouragingly, Brent has already stated his realisation of what is needed at a club like ours when next we reach the 2nd tier".

Indeed, the man certainly has vision alright, he's thinking many many chess moves ahead. He's said his destiny would be to walk away at that point but I suspect he'll find better people to pass the club onto than Stapes found.

That's the hope Smiffy. I'll be interested to see just how long he continues sitting with the rank and file on matchdays. It must be an eye opener for the nice gentleman and whether his seeming new found chum [surely he's not taking him seriously !] will continue to follow him around offering the sound advice for which he is notorious ! ?

X Isle wrote:

Chemical Ali wrote:

Careful Mock, Andy Soapbox will start an angry thread against 'janners' not supporting the club (like he did on tony)- it wasn't Stapes fault for the mess he caused-it was all the janners' fault

It was never ALL the fault of the fans but at a particular point in history, they share some of the blame.

There really was NO excuse for crowds to start dropping during Holloways 'nearly' season. There were truly excellent players, playing trully excellent football at the business end of the championship. That said Stapleton had already (IMHO) committed the cardinal sin of pushing the boat out a wee bit too far. A Janner, more than any other chairman, should know the mind of the Janner football fan and tailored Argyles cloth accordingly. That's where it all started to go wrong for me, and yes, late in the Holloway reign the fanbase DID share some of the blame. What would we give for players and performances like that now, well they were there but far from coming to watch them, gates dropped.

Anyways, back to Brent. Never at any point was there a suggestion he was going to bankroll a rocket launch up the leagues. It'll be a modest 'slowly slowly catchy monkey', just as it should always be. Within our means and not a penny more. Opinions will vary but that's always been my view on it. Stepping away from that core principle started the problems, given all we've been through you'd think we'd have learnt to be careful what we wish for.

Just to go back to the Holloway nearly season.As a matter of fact,the football at HP wasn't actually all that good.I went to many away games during the Holloway period and can definitely state that the performances i saw"on the road" were much better than the fare at home.Some of the away displays at Sunderland,Palace,Wolves etc,far outstripped what was generally on offer down here-the peak performance was actually against Norwich,a real destruction job in what turned out to be Holloway's last game.Before that,the home record was rather mediocre-won 2,drawn 4,lost 1,7 goals scored.The truth is that Holloway's team was a developing one and,in my mind,would undoubtedly have reached at least the play offs in that season but was never given that chance to truly demonstrate it to the public,a fact which Holloway knew and acted upon in moving to Leicester .Looking through those early season stats,its interesting to see some of the gates at Argyle away games-QPR 10900,Stoke 12500,Blackpool 8800-see where those clubs have been since then.As you say,Stapleton should have known the Janner mindset-it is indisputable fact that,in any successful Argyle season,gates crescendo hugely after xmas and it would have been no different in 2007/8.No,Smiffy,there was something more to those decisions than impending financial trouble-if indeed the club did miss out and fall into problems,surely there was enough value within the squad to address that in the following summer? Reports of directors going around town boasting that they "were going to make a fecking mint" reached my ears and i had no reason to disbelieve the sources.I do believe there were some e mails distributed from ex directors who had previously resigned on principle stating that maybe there were other reasons than any financial shortfall behind the great fire sale of 2007/8.

Greenskin wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Chemical Ali wrote:

Careful Mock, Andy Soapbox will start an angry thread against 'janners' not supporting the club (like he did on tony)- it wasn't Stapes fault for the mess he caused-it was all the janners' fault

It was never ALL the fault of the fans but at a particular point in history, they share some of the blame.

There really was NO excuse for crowds to start dropping during Holloways 'nearly' season. There were truly excellent players, playing trully excellent football at the business end of the championship. That said Stapleton had already (IMHO) committed the cardinal sin of pushing the boat out a wee bit too far. A Janner, more than any other chairman, should know the mind of the Janner football fan and tailored Argyles cloth accordingly. That's where it all started to go wrong for me, and yes, late in the Holloway reign the fanbase DID share some of the blame. What would we give for players and performances like that now, well they were there but far from coming to watch them, gates dropped.

Anyways, back to Brent. Never at any point was there a suggestion he was going to bankroll a rocket launch up the leagues. It'll be a modest 'slowly slowly catchy monkey', just as it should always be. Within our means and not a penny more. Opinions will vary but that's always been my view on it. Stepping away from that core principle started the problems, given all we've been through you'd think we'd have learnt to be careful what we wish for.

Just to go back to the Holloway nearly season.As a matter of fact,the football at HP wasn't actually all that good.I went to many away games during the Holloway period and can definitely state that the performances i saw"on the road" were much better than the fare at home.Some of the away displays at Sunderland,Palace,Wolves etc,far outstripped what was generally on offer down here-the peak performance was actually against Norwich,a real destruction job in what turned out to be Holloway's last game.Before that,the home record was rather mediocre-won 2,drawn 4,lost 1,7 goals scored.The truth is that Holloway's team was a developing one and,in my mind,would undoubtedly have reached at least the play offs in that season but was never given that chance to truly demonstrate it to the public,a fact which Holloway knew and acted upon in moving to Leicester .Looking through those early season stats,its interesting to see some of the gates at Argyle away games-QPR 10900,Stoke 12500,Blackpool 8800-see where those clubs have been since then.As you say,Stapleton should have known the Janner mindset-it is indisputable fact that,in any successful Argyle season,gates crescendo hugely after xmas and it would have been no different in 2007/8.No,Smiffy,there was something more to those decisions than impending financial trouble-if indeed the club did miss out and fall into problems,surely there was enough value within the squad to address that in the following summer? Reports of directors going around town boasting that they "were going to make a fecking mint" reached my ears and i had no reason to disbelieve the sources.I do believe there were some e mails distributed from ex directors who had previously resigned on principle stating that maybe there were other reasons than any financial shortfall behind the great fire sale of 2007/8.

You deserve a medal for trying mate. If you've told the farm avivas this once, you've told them a hundred times.

They haven't the brain power to understand.

Do the club a favour and send Brent an email explaining the history. He's not stupid and it might save us more years backing the wrong horse, if he listens to the likes of Newell.

The football at HP during the Holloway years wasn't that great. A lot of it seemed to be a long ball to Hayles who would either foul or be fouled. Every home game was a real scrap and we never really outclassed anyone, but we usually out fought them. At the start of Holloways last season I was struggling to remain motivated despite having a season ticket. Obviously it was a million miles better then where we are now, but it wasn't pretty. I don't doubt for one second that with the correct investment we would have reached the promised land (but I think we have covered that).

Greenskin wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Chemical Ali wrote:

Careful Mock, Andy Soapbox will start an angry thread against 'janners' not supporting the club (like he did on tony)- it wasn't Stapes fault for the mess he caused-it was all the janners' fault

It was never ALL the fault of the fans but at a particular point in history, they share some of the blame.

There really was NO excuse for crowds to start dropping during Holloways 'nearly' season. There were truly excellent players, playing trully excellent football at the business end of the championship. That said Stapleton had already (IMHO) committed the cardinal sin of pushing the boat out a wee bit too far. A Janner, more than any other chairman, should know the mind of the Janner football fan and tailored Argyles cloth accordingly. That's where it all started to go wrong for me, and yes, late in the Holloway reign the fanbase DID share some of the blame. What would we give for players and performances like that now, well they were there but far from coming to watch them, gates dropped.

Anyways, back to Brent. Never at any point was there a suggestion he was going to bankroll a rocket launch up the leagues. It'll be a modest 'slowly slowly catchy monkey', just as it should always be. Within our means and not a penny more. Opinions will vary but that's always been my view on it. Stepping away from that core principle started the problems, given all we've been through you'd think we'd have learnt to be careful what we wish for.

Just to go back to the Holloway nearly season.As a matter of fact,the football at HP wasn't actually all that good.I went to many away games during the Holloway period and can definitely state that the performances i saw"on the road" were much better than the fare at home.Some of the away displays at Sunderland,Palace,Wolves etc,far outstripped what was generally on offer down here-the peak performance was actually against Norwich,a real destruction job in what turned out to be Holloway's last game.Before that,the home record was rather mediocre-won 2,drawn 4,lost 1,7 goals scored.The truth is that Holloway's team was a developing one and,in my mind,would undoubtedly have reached at least the play offs in that season but was never given that chance to truly demonstrate it to the public,a fact which Holloway knew and acted upon in moving to Leicester .Looking through those early season stats,its interesting to see some of the gates at Argyle away games-QPR 10900,Stoke 12500,Blackpool 8800-see where those clubs have been since then.As you say,Stapleton should have known the Janner mindset-it is indisputable fact that,in any successful Argyle season,gates crescendo hugely after xmas and it would have been no different in 2007/8.No,Smiffy,there was something more to those decisions than impending financial trouble-if indeed the club did miss out and fall into problems,surely there was enough value within the squad to address that in the following summer? Reports of directors going around town boasting that they "were going to make a fecking mint" reached my ears and i had no reason to disbelieve the sources.I do believe there were some e mails distributed from ex directors who had previously resigned on principle stating that maybe there were other reasons than any financial shortfall behind the great fire sale of 2007/8.

Yep, go along with most of that. The Stapleton board had it's chance to welcome in around £10m of new investment, but as we all know, they had 'other plans in place' - which involved treating the success on the pitch as their own individual lottery wins.

As for the great fire sale it was no more than an exercise to make the club look a much more attractive investment than it was - and the Japanese fell for it (something I still find incredible).

The slowly catchy monkey business is all well and good, but there comes a time when new investment is needed to make that push forward. The £10m would have done that, but the then board didn't want to dilute their holdings - they simply didn't care about further success on the pitch.

All water under the bridge but I firmly believe we would have gone forward had Stapleton and co had the best interests of the club at heart at that time.

As for James Brent? Time will tell, but he needs a good board who know something about a football club - which should not include ordinary fans of the club - super or otherwise.

At one time I was a 100% backer of Stapes but like others I slowly saw through the "I'm a fan" propaganda and a lot of his interviews at the time gave away his true agenda that was assisted by the head nodding of characters such as Gordon Sparks and Rupert Metacafe, two media characters that could and should have probed the situation of the time but didn't want to slip off Stapes's Christmas card list.

I would like to see a statue erected of Stapes in the pose of walking away from Home Park with his head bowed in shame as a reminder to all that take up the prestigious position of Chairman, that PAFC is not just a business but a community, a community that witnessed treachery that Drake himself would have taken his sword to and, a community that allowed itself to be divided for the benefit of a minority. It's a division that is still alive and kicking today and a reason why this site exist, but the only ones that exploit the division are the ones that created it in the first place.

Hopefully this new Plymouth Argyle will rise from the ashes, my fear is that not a single lesson has been learnt.

Interesting that you mention a statue to Stapes.

I watched the England V Sweden 2006 World Cup group match in Boomerangs on Mutley Plain. I was very very drunk but I spent the first half talking to Paul Maxwell. You may remember him from such things as being the physio at Argyle and not being allowed to mention him on Pasoti. At the time we were between managers as Pulis had just left and Holloway had not been appointed. Maxwell didn't speak highly of Stapes and said he was only interested in having a statue of himself at HP.

I would gladly dig deep in the pocket for that statue Frank, should anyone wish to take up the challenge. Maybe we could make it ATD's first bucket rattle?

The Paul Maxwell issue came at a time when Naps and Co. were very firm backers of Stapes and the subsequent death of the old PAFC, there's no wonder why they wanted the Maxwell issue to be silenced.

GOB wrote:

I would gladly dig deep in the pocket for that statue Frank, should anyone wish to take up the challenge. Maybe we could make it ATD's first bucket rattle?

The Paul Maxwell issue came at a time when Naps and Co. were very firm backers of Stapes and the subsequent death of the old PAFC, there's no wonder why they wanted the Maxwell issue to be silenced.

A statue of Stapes ? Are you losing it Delboy ?

Read me first post Tring and you'll catch on, but then maybe not

[quote="GOB"]Read me first post Tring and you'll catch on, but then maybe not [/quote


Oh yeah ........... Maybe the GT's could use it as a sideshow for raising money ? Hoopla anyone ? Roll up roll up !

On the GT's- what is their purpose now? Are they still supporting the staff? or is their fundraising for the team/youth team?

I only ask as I saw Cockney Green mentioned borrowing the Movember idea (on pasoti) to raise money for the staff.

Good point Ali.
I have no problem whatsoever with a bunch of people working to bring money into the club, good on them, and if they want to do that work for nothing that's up to them. However, and hopefully Rappo will correct me if I am wrong, I believe the GTs have always wanted to take a percentage of certain 'fundraising' activities.

Now the club is sold down the river, it is time for unequivocal statements as to what various bodies are doing, so fans understand what they are contributing to. Contributing to 'unpaid staff' will now no longer hold any water.
I also think, now the staff are to be paid properly, that the GTS have to be quite clear that they are doing nothing more than bringing in funds to a private company .... again, I have no problem with that at all .... BUT IT IS NOT CHARITABLE FUNDRAISING, as some people might construe.

Not sure what you mean when you say the GTs sometimes keep a percentage. Do you mean for themselves or to put towards other charitable activities or .... ?

funny man wrote:

Not sure what you mean when you say the GTs sometimes keep a percentage. Do you mean for themselves or to put towards other charitable activities or .... ?

Well, if Rappo, or another GT, might like to put the matter straight, I'm sure we'll all be happy. But they appear very shy talking about the issue.
The matter is very unclear, and always has been. And what do you mean by OTHER charitable activities FM ? ... are you suggesting their activities to date for the staff ARE charitable ? I certainly don't think helping out the coffers of a professional football club are charitable ... do you ? Here lies the problem of public understanding. There are laws against misrepresentation.

I wrote a post on here a while ago warning that care needed to be taken with this raising money thing, it's never been about charity and therefore it involves taxation. I assumed that those involved had found a way around the issues because I know they were aware, but seeing the efforts continue could be alarming for those concerned.

penzancepirate wrote:

funny man wrote:

Not sure what you mean when you say the GTs sometimes keep a percentage. Do you mean for themselves or to put towards other charitable activities or .... ?

Well, if Rappo, or another GT, might like to put the matter straight, I'm sure we'll all be happy. But they appear very shy talking about the issue.
The matter is very unclear, and always has been. And what do you mean by OTHER charitable activities FM ? ... are you suggesting their activities to date for the staff ARE charitable ? I certainly don't think helping out the coffers of a professional football club are charitable ... do you ? Here lies the problem of public understanding. There are laws against misrepresentation.

Does that mean you actually don't know where the money goes?

Whether we agree or not on the rights or wrongs of the raising of money for the staff with its implied support for "the coffers" of the club, the campaign always seemed to me to be at least a well-intentioned one. I think I read someone on pasoti raising the issue of tax and the response was that it had been checked out.

Do the GTs keep a percentage? If so for what?