The Grandstand plans - a PAS Board update

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Angry of Manchester wrote:

St James is holding your club back that and lack of outside investment. Exeter could be an established championship club if it wanted.

Whilst appreciating your concern Angers I feel you may have this arse about, it is not the ground that holds us back, it was the inability and lack of business acumen in the Boardroom over many decades which has done that. One higher functioning mind with a bit of cash and some drive in the seat of power in the 80s and 90s might well have seen us with the necessary infrastructure to present more of a challenge to you in the battle to be Champions of Devon, maybe even as you suggest at a level above our perceived "glass ceiling".

Now once again the chance to do summat with what is left of Sid James has been missed through prevarication, self serving and lack of direction in the Club and Trust. The decision to put some Man Utd supporting ex pen pusher from DCC on point was the final nail in that coffin.

The stadium is landlocked if you will meaning you cant do much more than what you have done with the stadium to improve it due to the roads and houses surrounding it. Luckliy u could build as big a stand as you want to the old cowshed but thats about it. so if you ever were to push on up you would either be told to make Sid James more accessable for away fans or move to a stadium that meets championship criteria. Which would either mean temp move to sandy park or worse comes to the worseyou could end up playing down here

As i said to another of your fellowship on here Exeter is a thriving area atm more so than Plymouth so whats to say a good run next season in either league 1-2 you wont start to catch the eye of some investors.

125+1 wrote:

Angry of Manchester wrote:

knecht wrote:

More abuse of someone simply because they express a different view. How pasoti!

I find if the guy cant defend his views without resorting to pasoti tactics its fair game

I defend my veiws with facts!, thats what you dont like, person of even less interest.

What facts you have an opinion thats not fact its a point of view there is a big difference.

125+1 wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

125+1 wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Still wasting our breath with some, Greenskin.

Encouragingly these dimwits now seem in a minority, even on Pasoti and most of them are licking brent's arse or wouldl like to.

So having a differant opinion than yours makes people a dimwit!!

You are to concerned about what Newell is doing on a daily bases to have any real concerns about Argyle.

He's part of the problem. Is that too difficult to comprehend ?

You really believe he has that much power over James Brent!, Brent made his millions and decisions long before he met Newell, and will continue to do so long after Newell.

He doesn't have power over him but by Brent getting him on side through flattery and position, Newell is not only thick concerning the club's potential given a decent ground, leadership and what is needed to unlock it, but is also like a kid let loose in a sweet shop at HP.
Webb, Hooper, De Lar, Pedlar and co. are the same.

Angry of Manchester wrote:

125+1 wrote:

Angry of Manchester wrote:

knecht wrote:

More abuse of someone simply because they express a different view. How pasoti!

I find if the guy cant defend his views without resorting to pasoti tactics its fair game

I defend my veiws with facts!, thats what you dont like, person of even less interest.

What facts you have an opinion thats not fact its a point of view there is a big difference.

Read my posts properly and they are littered with facts!.

Obviously the big differance is your ability to read a post properly before commenting on it!

Thats not a fact, just my opinion

125+1 wrote:

Angry of Manchester wrote:

125+1 wrote:

Angry of Manchester wrote:

knecht wrote:

More abuse of someone simply because they express a different view. How pasoti!

I find if the guy cant defend his views without resorting to pasoti tactics its fair game

I defend my veiws with facts!, thats what you dont like, person of even less interest.

What facts you have an opinion thats not fact its a point of view there is a big difference.

Read my posts properly and they are littered with facts!.

Obviously the big differance is your ability to read a post properly before commenting on it!

Thats not a fact, just my opinion

no they are not.

Example there isnt anyone around to buy the club of brent. That is an opinion not a fact. If you wish to give English lessons on here you might want to start by learning the meanings of fact and opinion.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Just how much money can you extract from the 5020 who could use it? Not enough.

Therein lies yer prob Franny, all this bleating about being able to get a few thousand extra plastics in three or four times a season at most is such a "Super Reds" herring. These extra few k are the boys who bitch about 20 quid to get in and want their kids in for a quid while blanching at paying a pound for a cuppa.

They are not worth the time and trouble.

The punters you need would be the ones sauntering pack to their seats ten minutes into the second half with the sea food sauce dripping on their designer jackets.

You boys seems so set on focussing on a few thousand plassies who couldn't normally give a fetid dingo's gonad for "Argyle", get real FFS, Shirley some of you have a basic grounding in business or an o-level in Economics, the money is in the pose and prawns, the Arse get a huge proportion of their income from the 10% of their capacity which relates to corporate seats and that is with a season ticket costing £1500+.

This complete lack of any financial realism among even your more erudite posters is starting to give me an 'eadache.

Brent knows to turn the clubs fortunes around he has to create a high value clientele, not a few thousand knobs prepared to turn up to see the Barcodes and then cheer them off to the strains of "We are the Champions" while their "own" club is slipping into relegation. He is looking for high value punters at the lowest possible set up cost, it's the clever play, he doesn't care what you lot think prattling away on here, he owns the media and that other place, that's his market place, Nikkkkkkkkkkkk and his ilk aren't on here, they are out in the real world partying in Big Gay Bear Paris.

I really like thes designs matches the wooden dugouts and the wooden figures in the directors box.

Shame you didn't buy us for a quid Tis, where would we be now eh?

I really like the designs GOB, matches the wooden dugouts and wooden figures in the directors box perfectly.

The stand isn't as big as I'd have liked but it has changed from that sketch. I'm more concerned that we have no proper training facilities in these plans. The club from the under 11s up need a state of the art training facility.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Just how much money can you extract from the 5020 who could use it? Not enough.

Therein lies yer prob Franny, all this bleating about being able to get a few thousand extra plastics in three or four times a season at most is such a "Super Reds" herring. These extra few k are the boys who bitch about 20 quid to get in and want their kids in for a quid while blanching at paying a pound for a cuppa.

They are not worth the time and trouble.

The punters you need would be the ones sauntering pack to their seats ten minutes into the second half with the sea food sauce dripping on their designer jackets.

You boys seems so set on focussing on a few thousand plassies who couldn't normally give a fetid dingo's gonad for "Argyle", get real FFS, Shirley some of you have a basic grounding in business or an o-level in Economics, the money is in the pose and prawns, the Arse get a huge proportion of their income from the 10% of their capacity which relates to corporate seats and that is with a season ticket costing £1500+.

This complete lack of any financial realism among even your more erudite posters is starting to give me an 'eadache.

Brent knows to turn the clubs fortunes around he has to create a high value clientele, not a few thousand knobs prepared to turn up to see the Barcodes and then cheer them off to the strains of "We are the Champions" while their "own" club is slipping into relegation. He is looking for high value punters at the lowest possible set up cost, it's the clever play, he doesn't care what you lot think prattling away on here, he owns the media and that other place, that's his market place, Nikkkkkkkkkkkk and his ilk aren't on here, they are out in the real world partying in Big Gay Bear Paris.

Have you seen the plans? if not you should. But let me ask you a question and to the other city fans on here

if your owners want to rebuild your grandstand and make it smaller taking your overall capacity down due to the fact ikea whoes profits wont benefit the club at all was being built next to it? and to top it off, as a result of the size of ikea you can never add another tier to the stand or extend it if your club climbs up the leagues or fans start coming more meaning your stuck with a capacity thats either too small to match the level the club should be at even if it is league 1? would you be chuffed about it? would you be saying hang on what about us? '

You say Brent needs to raise the clientale and you are right, however none of the facilities he is building (bar the stand) will benefit the club financially including the shops he is building inside the stand they will all be his and when he sells the club he still takes the profits. Brent is doing any of this for the benefit of Argyle its for his benefit alone. You talk about having financial sense there is none benefitting the club in the longterm with these plans. The only way the club can be set in the future is ensure that this new stand can be extended with ease to meet future requirements then it will impact on the club in the future all because Plymouth needs an ice rink the size and design that it is!

hairy j wrote:

The stand isn't as big as I'd have liked but it has changed from that sketch. I'm more concerned that we have no proper training facilities in these plans. The club from the under 11s up need a state of the art training facility.

i doubt that it has hairy if you look at the first release picture closly the 2nd tier is included albeit small.

Size isn't everything. The difference between, say, 17,000 & 20,000 is small. However, the pschological difference is much bigger.

I have two main concerns at the moment.

Firstly, the retail shops appear to be within the current grandstand's footprint. If true, this probably means that the money from this will not go into the club. This is contrary to what we were led to believe all along. This is damaging of our ability to be self-sustaining as promised by Mr Brent. This is what annoys me the most.

Secondly, if we are at some stage in the future to become a successful club, we need the ability to easily expand the ground. The exposure of the myth that the horseshoe would easily allow for this is a blow but that is water under the bridge. That leaves us with the ability to develop what we have. The construction of the road past the Lyndy & the Barn Park will seriously damage that option. That leaves us solely with the Devonport and the new grandstand. The Devonport may, at some time be an option. It doesn't appear that the new grandstand will be. As many wise people on pasoti have already said, realistically we have just the one chance to get this right. It certainly isn't right at present.

knecht wrote:

Size isn't everything. The difference between, say, 17,000 & 20,000 is small. However, the pschological difference is much bigger.

I have two main concerns at the moment.

Firstly, the retail shops appear to be within the current grandstand's footprint. If true, this probably means that the money from this will not go into the club. This is contrary to what we were led to believe all along. This is damaging of our ability to be self-sustaining as promised by Mr Brent. This is what annoys me the most.

Secondly, if we are at some stage in the future to become a successful club, we need the ability to easily expand the ground. The exposure of the myth that the horseshoe would easily allow for this is a blow but that is water under the bridge. That leaves us with the ability to develop what we have. The construction of the road past the Lyndy & the Barn Park will seriously damage that option. That leaves us solely with the Devonport and the new grandstand. The Devonport may, at some time be an option. It doesn't appear that the new grandstand will be. As many wise people on pasoti have already said, realistically we have just the one chance to get this right. It certainly isn't right at present.

And i've heard but not had it confirmed that the clubshop is smaller than it is now.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Just how much money can you extract from the 5020 who could use it? Not enough.

Therein lies yer prob Franny, all this bleating about being able to get a few thousand extra plastics in three or four times a season at most is such a "Super Reds" herring. These extra few k are the boys who bitch about 20 quid to get in and want their kids in for a quid while blanching at paying a pound for a cuppa.

They are not worth the time and trouble.

The punters you need would be the ones sauntering pack to their seats ten minutes into the second half with the sea food sauce dripping on their designer jackets.

You boys seems so set on focussing on a few thousand plassies who couldn't normally give a fetid dingo's gonad for "Argyle", get real FFS, Shirley some of you have a basic grounding in business or an o-level in Economics, the money is in the pose and prawns, the Arse get a huge proportion of their income from the 10% of their capacity which relates to corporate seats and that is with a season ticket costing £1500+.

This complete lack of any financial realism among even your more erudite posters is starting to give me an 'eadache.

Brent knows to turn the clubs fortunes around he has to create a high value clientele, not a few thousand knobs prepared to turn up to see the Barcodes and then cheer them off to the strains of "We are the Champions" while their "own" club is slipping into relegation. He is looking for high value punters at the lowest possible set up cost, it's the clever play, he doesn't care what you lot think prattling away on here, he owns the media and that other place, that's his market place, Nikkkkkkkkkkkk and his ilk aren't on here, they are out in the real world partying in Big Gay Bear Paris.

The very thought that Argyle could become some sort of high-end, fashionable, boutique club has got me reaching for my Basil Fawlty box-set. I can see it now, the Swilly massive all togged out in pukka Armani, ordering smoked salmon and bellinis at half-time - all trying to out-bid Nikkk for a signed pair of Cheryl Cole boxers whilst talking to their legal briefs about taking action against ATD because Krakatoa isn't erupting and the heards of wildebeest are summering in Slapton at 0% APR.

Plenty of sense coming out of Pasoti recently..................

It's The Argyle Spring !

ejh
Post subject: Re: Home Park RedevelopmentPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:52 pm


Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:51 am
Location: You don't like beethoven
Fergy wrote:
Brighton & Hove Albion

2010-2011 season home average: 7,351 (Finishing as Champions). The Withdean holds 8,850 (83.06% of full capacity).
2011-2012 season home average: 20,003 (Finishing in 10th place). The Amex held 20,500 (97.57% of full capacity).
2012-2013 season home average: 25,518 (Currently in 7th place). The Amex currently holds 27,350 (93.30% of full capacity).

Brighton's highest season average was 25,265 in 1978.



It amazes me that all clubs with a vision like Stoke, Swansea, Hull, who built grounds and achieved their ambitions of developing competitive teams supported by big crowds, are being overlooked for the likes of Blackpool and Burnley, who went up, came down, sold players and returned to making up the numbers. Is the latter our plan then, should we ever compete for CCC promotion? Wave goodbye to the potential of bigger crowds, make the best out of a less competitive squad, go down and take the parachute payments. If this stand goes up, that will be the ceiling for this club, and I dont think my heart can accept it. Id rather see a derelict mayflower and still have hope that one day, we will do it properly.

Angry of Manchester wrote:

The stadium is landlocked if you will meaning you cant do much more than what you have done with the stadium to improve it due to the roads and houses surrounding it.

You are so so wrong Angers.

The plans as published for the proposed new development would be a massive improvement on what is currently there without affecting the surrounding area massively, it ain't happening mind. Had some thought had been put in when the bank and cowshed were redeveloped a far better job could have been done, there was more than enough room on the original site to build a decent little ground while freeing up sufficient land for a contributing if not not a fully enabling devlopment.

Opportunities were missed all down the line by the clueless wonkers in charge, you have the great good luck to have a proper shark of a Suit in charge, he will not let you die until he has finished bleeding you then at the death you will still have a football ground owned by the council, join your Trust and get youreselves a fighting fund ready for that day, in the meantime feel free to keep your fingers crossed that an "Abramovich" will saunter down off the moors, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.

Angry of Manchester wrote:

Have you seen the plans? if not you should. But let me ask you a question and to the other city fans on here

if your owners want to rebuild your grandstand and make it smaller taking your overall capacity down due to the fact ikea whoes profits wont benefit the club at all was being built next to it? and to top it off, as a result of the size of ikea you can never add another tier to the stand or extend it if your club climbs up the leagues or fans start coming more meaning your stuck with a capacity thats either too small to match the level the club should be at even if it is league 1? would you be chuffed about it? would you be saying hang on what about us? '

You say Brent needs to raise the clientale and you are right, however none of the facilities he is building (bar the stand) will benefit the club financially including the shops he is building inside the stand they will all be his and when he sells the club he still takes the profits. Brent is doing any of this for the benefit of Argyle its for his benefit alone. You talk about having financial sense there is none benefitting the club in the longterm with these plans. The only way the club can be set in the future is ensure that this new stand can be extended with ease to meet future requirements then it will impact on the club in the future all because Plymouth needs an ice rink the size and design that it is!

Sorry Angers but you just don't get it do you ? I could try and explain to you that increased capacity alone doesn't necessarily enhance revenue streams, but I already have and you have chosen to ignore the bleeding obvious.

You are obviously passionate but your basic premise is fatally flawed, you are trying to make the after ten pints back of a fag packet argument which is never the best way to spend millions on a major development.

I'm giving up now as I don't really care and I have still got two hours training to do before I can have me tea.

ps. Love the avatar.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Angry of Manchester wrote:

Have you seen the plans? if not you should. But let me ask you a question and to the other city fans on here

if your owners want to rebuild your grandstand and make it smaller taking your overall capacity down due to the fact ikea whoes profits wont benefit the club at all was being built next to it? and to top it off, as a result of the size of ikea you can never add another tier to the stand or extend it if your club climbs up the leagues or fans start coming more meaning your stuck with a capacity thats either too small to match the level the club should be at even if it is league 1? would you be chuffed about it? would you be saying hang on what about us? '

You say Brent needs to raise the clientale and you are right, however none of the facilities he is building (bar the stand) will benefit the club financially including the shops he is building inside the stand they will all be his and when he sells the club he still takes the profits. Brent is doing any of this for the benefit of Argyle its for his benefit alone. You talk about having financial sense there is none benefitting the club in the longterm with these plans. The only way the club can be set in the future is ensure that this new stand can be extended with ease to meet future requirements then it will impact on the club in the future all because Plymouth needs an ice rink the size and design that it is!

Sorry Angers but you just don't get it do you ? I could try and explain to you that increased capacity alone doesn't necessarily enhance revenue streams, but I already have and you have chosen to ignore the bleeding obvious.

You are obviously passionate but your basic premise is fatally flawed, you are trying to make the after ten pints back of a fag packet argument which is never the best way to spend millions on a major development.

I'm giving up now as I don't really care and I have still got two hours training to do before I can have me tea.

ps. Love the avatar.

and i feel you miss the point of everyone on here. Its nit the development thats the issue as i havent seen anyone on here say its a bad thing but if your building that all into a stand then the stand has to be built with the future in mind. If it is what is is now then fine but it should be built so it can be extended in the future. As someone already said This is the last time we can do any development at Home Park and that stand so it needs to be covered. Thats the issue i think your missing but with respect your not a fan so you cant see it from our eyes.

However to say i dont get the revenue streams is wrong as i and others have already said we're not benefitting from the new complexes.

ps your welcome

pps have fun training and for the sake of it answer my questions about ikea

Tringreen wrote:

Brighton & Hove Albion

2010-2011 season home average: 7,351 (Finishing as Champions). The Withdean holds 8,850 (83.06% of full capacity).

Brighton is a terrible example and couldn't be more different from Muff.

The Withdean was sold out for home fans despite being a dog of ground to get to as well as one of the worst places in history to watch football. They became a massively wealthy blub when Bloom took over, that new ground has cost the thick end of £100 million pounds, they are in a wealthy area with a huge catchment area full of minted punters with no competition.

Muff is a shit tip with 90% of its population either on the dole or working for the DWP, you ain't a Brighton, you ain't a Hull with their sudden influx of cash, you ain't a Swansea and you certainly ain't a Stoke with their history.

Angry of Manchester wrote:

and i feel you miss the point of everyone on here. Its nit the development thats the issue as i havent seen anyone on here say its a bad thing but if your building that all into a stand then the stand has to be built with the future in mind. If it is what is is now then fine but it should be built so it can be extended in the future. As someone already said This is the last time we can do any development at Home Park and that stand so it needs to be covered. Thats the issue i think your missing but with respect your not a fan so you cant see it from our eyes.

However to say i dont get the revenue streams is wrong as i and others have already said we're not benefitting from the new complexes.

ps your welcome

You would be safe to assume that I will never miss the point Angers, all I have tried to do is get you boys to see the folly of thinking Brent is going to spend money he doesn't have to now based on some future that a fan believes is achievable. It costs on average around fifteen hundred pound to add each seat in this kind of development, in this case you have to add in the opportunity cost of the extra land being taken from his other developments, the very developments which are paying for your new free stand. You want him to spend another £4 million pounds plus on the off chance of filling them seats a few times a season if you are major league successful, the cost of funding that 4 bar could easily be as high as a quarter of a million pounds a year, the overall costs will probably be amortised over as little as ten years which would involve you paying £600k pa for the privilege, anyone looking to stay in business just isn't going to follow that course.yes there is a degree of jealousy there.

Stop focussing on what you wrongly feel is taken away from you and grab hold of this gift horse and give him a big kiss square on the lips.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Brighton & Hove Albion

2010-2011 season home average: 7,351 (Finishing as Champions). The Withdean holds 8,850 (83.06% of full capacity).

Brighton is a terrible example and couldn't be more different from Muff.

The Withdean was sold out for home fans despite being a dog of ground to get to as well as one of the worst places in history to watch football. They became a massively wealthy blub when Bloom took over, that new ground has cost the thick end of £100 million pounds, they are in a wealthy area with a huge catchment area full of minted punters with no competition.

Muff is a shit tip with 90% of its population either on the dole or working for the DWP, you ain't a Brighton, you ain't a Hull with their sudden influx of cash, you ain't a Swansea and you certainly ain't a Stoke with their history.

Oh dear.

Oh look, a new Pasoti member ha ha ha !

Don't_Panic
Post subject: Re: Home Park RedevelopmentPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:33 pm

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:40 pm
I regularly read this site but for various reasons have never felt the need to post on here as like many argyle fans I'm interested mostly in the results on the pitch, what I do wish though is that certain people would stop claiming the opinions on this site or other fan organisations are speaking for 'all' the argyle fans out there & dismiss any positive feedback the club may have received as nonsense, not all of us wish to or can spend large parts of our time typing away on an Internet forum, doesn't make us less of a fan.
Whilst many may not like the ideas so far, there's probably just as many more out there who either do like it or really couldn't give a monkeys testicle, they just want an updated stand with modern facilities, they are just as much a fan of argyle as anyone else out there.
For people wishing to stop this going ahead how is that gonna help the club progress, will the current grandstand in its current state, capacity & amenities bring in new fans & show ambition? Fair enough if constructive feedback leads to slight further improvements (for what it's worth I would like to see a capacity around the 20,000 mark) but for some who claim we should stick with what we got until someone else can do it better?! Well can anyone really see that happening? How long did we have to wait for phase 1 to happen? I'm all for fans voicing concerns in the correct many but I'm concerned that too much negativity & possible 'militant' action could derail plans altogether & we'll be left with a rusting, dated, revenue lacking, stand. My old man isn't getting any younger & he'd love to see home park completed & not looking so sad.....hello by the way.

Nice try , you big , gay bears.

Some more information obtained by a mate of mine who doesn't post on the internet.

There will be no connection between the new stand and the horseshoe. So using the stand would be similar to using the Far Post now. You would have to go out and back in to move between the stands.

Not even the Argyle representative could say what was going to be in the retail units or who the revenue would be going to. The drawings are for consultation purposes and it's not even guaranteed that these units would get planning permission.

He had a discussion about the lack of facilities for the ordinary fan, after finding, as I did, little or nothing for the majority of fans who buy their season ticket. Turn up have a pint or two, a pasty and watch the lunchtime match. These are the REAL fans not corporate people who many only come infrequently.

He also had a discussion about the viability of extending the horseshoe and again it was confirmed it couldn't be done without major building work. The 4 / 5 rows of seats at the rear of the stands can be done but when he mentioned how expensive it would be in relation to the number of seats gained, he was told by the Argyle representative that basically if Argyle ever got to the Premiership, they would throw money at it to put the correct steelwork etc. in to enable a second tier to be put on top of the horseshoe.

Quite when or how that would be done, when thousands of fans would come crawling out of the woodwork to see Premiership football in Plymouth wasn't elaborated on. Obviously part of the ( currently £70Million) television money would be used. Planning and doing the work would be interesting! Can you imagine these boards if any part of a small stadium was out of use because of building work taking place, in what might be only one or two seasons in the Premiership.

Tringreen wrote:

Oh look, a new Pasoti member ha ha ha !

Don't_Panic
Post subject: Re: Home Park RedevelopmentPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:33 pm

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:40 pm
I regularly read this site but for various reasons have never felt the need to post on here as like many argyle fans I'm interested mostly in the results on the pitch, what I do wish though is that certain people would stop claiming the opinions on this site or other fan organisations are speaking for 'all' the argyle fans out there & dismiss any positive feedback the club may have received as nonsense, not all of us wish to or can spend large parts of our time typing away on an Internet forum, doesn't make us less of a fan.
Whilst many may not like the ideas so far, there's probably just as many more out there who either do like it or really couldn't give a monkeys testicle, they just want an updated stand with modern facilities, they are just as much a fan of argyle as anyone else out there.
For people wishing to stop this going ahead how is that gonna help the club progress, will the current grandstand in its current state, capacity & amenities bring in new fans & show ambition? Fair enough if constructive feedback leads to slight further improvements (for what it's worth I would like to see a capacity around the 20,000 mark) but for some who claim we should stick with what we got until someone else can do it better?! Well can anyone really see that happening? How long did we have to wait for phase 1 to happen? I'm all for fans voicing concerns in the correct many but I'm concerned that too much negativity & possible 'militant' action could derail plans altogether & we'll be left with a rusting, dated, revenue lacking, stand. My old man isn't getting any younger & he'd love to see home park completed & not looking so sad.....hello by the way.

Nice try , you big , gay bears.

lol, that screams multi account..... the person behind it is a big tit than my avatar