Is Brent wealthier than Wigan's Dave Whelan ?

Jabba thinks so..........

"In the course of doing some research on the Reluctant Bidder for my own amusement (yeah, I know it's sad and geeky) I came across a claim that he is in fact the 156th richest man in England. (I couldn't bring myself to put money in Murdoch's pocket and fork out for the paywall to see the Sunday Times Rich List for myself).

If that is true, then it appears that you have somehow contrived to land yourself in the quite remarkable position of finding an owner with more money than Dave Whelan, but who is only prepared to spend the minimum he can get away with.

Talk about the worst of all worlds."

So Whelan has built Wigan from non league to the Premiership and they seem sustainable, despite being a rugby league town and poorly supported. Factor in what Swansea have achieved in the last ten years on visionary planning and then look at Brent's tenure at Home Park.
Divisive dimwits supposedly representing the supporters, when all they really do is represent themselves. An exceptionally dim manager who couldn't put two phrases together effectively . A bunch of nobodies in the boardroom but plenty of buckets in the charity tents at HP.

This is feckin ridiculous.

Ah yes but does whelan's lip quiver?

I guess that Brent's weath is tied up in property but I suppose Whelan is more cash rich?

I suspect that Wigan's 'sustainability' would disappear were they to suffer relegation from the Premiership. It's only the vast amounts of sponsership money that are keeping them afloat given their wage bill. They are one of the teams that would probably plummet once relegation hit, unless Whelan was prepared to make substantial further investment.

The main difference of course is that Whelan is a football fan, and was prepared to forfeit a large amount of his personal wealth to achieve a goal. Argyle in contrast are just an inconvenient makeweight for Brent's property deals.

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:

I suspect that Wigan's 'sustainability' would disappear were they to suffer relegation from the Premiership. It's only the vast amounts of sponsership money that are keeping them afloat given their wage bill. They are one of the teams that would probably plummet once relegation hit, unless Whelan was prepared to make substantial further investment.

The main difference of course is that Whelan is a football fan, and was prepared to forfeit a large amount of his personal wealth to achieve a goal. Argyle in contrast are just an inconvenient makeweight for Brent's property deals.

Of course the sustainability would disappear but it would have been fun while it lasted.If Argyle had Wigan's team and Martinez in a developed stadium, we'd pull in 30k in the top flight. For a city with no top flight history and associated fanbase to call on, we weren't too shabby at over 16 k in the first Championship season. If the city had seen investment they would have come.

The Pasoti Politburo was always complaining about Cardiff's spending and debts and holding Argyle up as living within our means. Well look what's happening now. Cardiff on the verge of the PL and Argyle on the verge of the Blue Square.
We didn't even reach for the stars thanks to the Pasoti backed Stapleton regime. They wouldn't let go. Wouldn't promote the club to anyone with enough cash to back Holloway as happened at Blackpool, on lower gates than ours.
When Holloway and his staff realised the board were going to cash in on their achievements, in order to make the balance books look good to sell some of their shares to the Japs but still keep their fingers in the property pie, the game was up.
What a crying bloody shame.

Here here!

Wiltsgreen wrote:

Here here!

Is this a welcome back ?

Maybe Andrew!! Not had the time to post anything to be honest!! Everyone still a bit mental?

[quote="Tringreen"]

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:

Of course the sustainability would disappear but it would have been fun while it lasted.If Argyle had Wigan's team and Martinez in a developed stadium, we'd pull in 30k in the top flight.

Sometimes I do actually laugh out loud despite being sat here on me tod.

I have a bit of running around to do in a mo and despite it eating into my planned evening of doing pretty much fook all I shall do it now with a smile on me face at the sheer, unmitigated, approaching delusional things which find their way onto this forum.

Whelan loves Wigan, it's his life, why bother to even compare that to the money grubbing banker that saved the rump of your never great football club,

There are some sleeping giants in this country, PAFC ain't one of them, never was, never will bem even next season you will be lucky to be the second biggest club in the Conference.

I certainly agree with your dillusional assessment there Lord Tisdale. What odds does it make how much money Brent has got? What reason would he have to waste a load of it on a two bit football club from which he is going to get nothing but grief. All these people who urge somebody else to spend spend spend would think long and hard if they had any. Would they invest their hard earned for the sake of others? I very much doubt it. There is nothing in football at the lower level for anyone financially. Apart from gaining a few contracts outside of the football possibly. Nobody is certainly going to make a fortune out of the club itself.

Most of the people who are loudest in Brent spending money are the very same who have stopped going to matches. The reason being supposedly that they refuse to put money into his pocket by paying £20 for a match ticket. Won't pay £20 but expect him to spend his millions. Like he is pocketing loads from the football anyway. Anyone who truely believes he is is dillusional in the extreme.

the football isnt where the money is..............its the land and thats all he is here for.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I certainly agree with your dillusional assessment there Lord Tisdale. What odds does it make how much money Brent has got? What reason would he have to waste a load of it on a two bit football club from which he is going to get nothing but grief. All these people who urge somebody else to spend spend spend would think long and hard if they had any. Would they invest their hard earned for the sake of others? I very much doubt it. There is nothing in football at the lower level for anyone financially. Apart from gaining a few contracts outside of the football possibly. Nobody is certainly going to make a fortune out of the club itself.

Most of the people who are loudest in Brent spending money are the very same who have stopped going to matches. The reason being supposedly that they refuse to put money into his pocket by paying £20 for a match ticket. Won't pay £20 but expect him to spend his millions. Like he is pocketing loads from the football anyway. Anyone who truely believes he is is dillusional in the extreme.

So what exactly is he in it for then?

So what you are saying, sensible, is that we should expect nothing, there is nothing to be done and we are fecked.

Or are you suggesting an alternative?

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I certainly agree with your dillusional assessment there Lord Tisdale. What odds does it make how much money Brent has got? What reason would he have to waste a load of it on a two bit football club from which he is going to get nothing but grief. All these people who urge somebody else to spend spend spend would think long and hard if they had any. Would they invest their hard earned for the sake of others? I very much doubt it. There is nothing in football at the lower level for anyone financially. Apart from gaining a few contracts outside of the football possibly. Nobody is certainly going to make a fortune out of the club itself.

Most of the people who are loudest in Brent spending money are the very same who have stopped going to matches. The reason being supposedly that they refuse to put money into his pocket by paying £20 for a match ticket. Won't pay £20 but expect him to spend his millions. Like he is pocketing loads from the football anyway. Anyone who truely believes he is is dillusional in the extreme.

So you now have to ask yourself why did he take the club on in the first place?

Lets have a guess and say it was the prime building land shall we?

Aspiring to be Wigan? How village.

Man City have spent almost a billion pounds on winning one league title. Football fans are mental, rich people don't tend to be - that's the age old problem. Brent's not mental... Wigan? Wigan? Jesus wept.

Not aspiring to be Wigan, just pointing out what money can achieve in Wigan's case and what vision, ambition and skill can achieve in Swansea's case.

Argyle have at least the crowd potential of Swansea and 10 yrs ago, Swansea were where we are now.

All I'm suggesting is that a combination of the two examples ie a bit of cash and plenty of vision/know how, could result in Argyle being where they are now.

We potentially have both......... but it' seems a very long way off right now admittedly......but not as far as in Exeter's case.

Is that unreasonable ?

For the record, I'm not suggesting that you should aspire to "do a Wigan" with Brent or anyone else. I don't agree with that model and even though it would never happen anyway I would never want to see ECFC in the Premier League.

My comment was not aimed at his reluctance to spend those kind of sums - I expected that he would be tight with the purse-strings from the beginning. Instead I had in mind the majority of Greens who seem to be desperate for a rich man to take them to the so-called Nirvana of the Premiership and the way in which many of you seem (or seemed) to sneer at the idea of fan ownership as a result. Whatever Brent's wealth really is, there's no doubt you have the very rich man you craved in charge now and it doesn't seem to be as good as it looked from a distance.

The cases where a rich man has genuinely given the fans what they really want are few and far between and yet many fans still dream of getting one of their own. They usually involve those rare cases where genuine fans take over, as at Wigan and Brighton, or where the takeover is fuelled by dirty money by powerful individuals with a variety of cynical motives. (The idea that ruthless men like Arrobervitch and the Al-Nahyan's are pumping in billions on a plaything is ludicrous). Even then the long-term effect is not predictable - Whelan is keen to get out, Chelsea fans are starting to complain that, "it doesn't feel like our club any more" (oh, the irony) and just look at the state Blackburn are in, now Jack Walker is dead and the Walker Trust have sold (out) to the highest bidder.

Fan ownership, or models where fans have significant involvement is far more common in world football than the sugar-daddy aberration. In Brazil, Argentina and elsewhere in South America it's commonplace, most know that Germany has a strong ethos of fan involvement, it exists at the likes of Barcelona and Madrid and private ownership of football clubs is banned in Turkey, to give but a few examples.

I've said it before, but forget Swansea. Football finances have moved on since they sneaked through the stable door and I doubt the process is at an end. The money-men won't stop until they have the predictability of a closed shop, even if it's only a de facto one.

It's not a dig, but under the current circumstances I genuinely believe it's highly unlikely that a club of your size, this far down the league, will ever see the Premier League again, barring some miraculous event like an intervention by a petrodollar multi-billionaire. Do you really think that is remotely likely to happen to PAFC?

That's the sort of thinking that will get you in the sh*t time and time again.

[quote="Lord Tisdale"]

Tringreen wrote:

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:

Of course the sustainability would disappear but it would have been fun while it lasted.If Argyle had Wigan's team and Martinez in a developed stadium, we'd pull in 30k in the top flight.

Sometimes I do actually laugh out loud despite being sat here on me tod.

I have a bit of running around to do in a mo and despite it eating into my planned evening of doing pretty much fook all I shall do it now with a smile on me face at the sheer, unmitigated, approaching delusional things which find their way onto this forum.

Whelan loves Wigan, it's his life, why bother to even compare that to the money grubbing banker that saved the rump of your never great football club,

There are some sleeping giants in this country, PAFC ain't one of them, never was, never will bem even next season you will be lucky to be the second biggest club in the Conference.

Whilst it is true that there is no comparism between Whelan and Brent - one loves football, the other thinks it's an irritant - you are totally wrong about the 'sleeping giant'. I know it suits your argument as an Exeter supporter, but the wider football world does consider PAFC one of the biggest clubs never to make the top flight.

Currently however for 'sleeping' read 'comatose'.

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

For the record, I'm not suggesting that you should aspire to "do a Wigan" with Brent or anyone else. I don't agree with that model and even though it would never happen anyway I would never want to see ECFC in the Premier League.

My comment was not aimed at his reluctance to spend those kind of sums - I expected that he would be tight with the purse-strings from the beginning. Instead I had in mind the majority of Greens who seem to be desperate for a rich man to take them to the so-called Nirvana of the Premiership and the way in which many of you seem (or seemed) to sneer at the idea of fan ownership as a result. Whatever Brent's wealth really is, there's no doubt you have the very rich man you craved in charge now and it doesn't seem to be as good as it looked from a distance.

The cases where a rich man has genuinely given the fans what they really want are few and far between and yet many fans still dream of getting one of their own. They usually involve those rare cases where genuine fans take over, as at Wigan and Brighton, or where the takeover is fuelled by dirty money by powerful individuals with a variety of cynical motives. (The idea that ruthless men like Arrobervitch and the Al-Nahyan's are pumping in billions on a plaything is ludicrous). Even then the long-term effect is not predictable - Whelan is keen to get out, Chelsea fans are starting to complain that, "it doesn't feel like our club any more" (oh, the irony) and just look at the state Blackburn are in now Jack Walker is dead and the Walker Trust have sold (out) to the highest bidder.

Fan ownership, or models where fans have significant involvement is far more common in world football than the sugar-daddy aberration. In Brazil, Argentina and elsewhere in South America it's commonplace, most know that Germany has a strong ethos of fan involvement, it exists at the likes of Barcelona and Madrid and private ownership of football clubs is banned in Turkey, to give but a few examples.

I've said it before, but forget Swansea. Football finances have moved on since they sneaked through the stable door and I doubt it's stopped there. The money-men won't stop until they have the predictability of a closed shop, even if it's only a de facto one.

It's not a dig, but under the current circumstances I genuinely believe it's highly unlikely that a club of your size, this far down the league, will ever see the Premier League again, barring some miraculous event like an intervention by a petrodollar multi-billionaire. Do you really think that is remotely likely to happen to PAFC?

That's the sort of thinking that will get you in the sh*t time and time again.

We had this argument a while back.You see it your way,excellent.Others see it differently.Good night.

Jabba goes on about Swansea slipping through the stable door before it slammed shut.

Someone must have opened it again then, because the two teams that currently occupy the automatic slots are Cardiff and Watford (yes, Watford)

The Prem teams relegated with their millions of parachute money are currently 10th 11th and 17th.

What Jabba doesn't allow for is the greed and desperation that comes with the Prem millions. No matter what these teams receive, they can still comfortably blow it all (and more) on fantasy wages for average players. That's why teams like Bolton are in the shit.

I can't believe that Brent is a wealthy as the OP claims.

If he was, he would have done the Honourable Thing and made sure the staff who work for him got all their backpay as soon as possible.

If he was that rich (or even anywhere near) he'd be a total sleazebag to sit on his riches will staff are waiting to get what they are owed.

Nah, he's not a sleazebag, he's just not that rich.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

I know it suits your argument as an Exeter supporter, but the wider football world does consider PAFC one of the biggest clubs never to make the top flight.

Currently however for 'sleeping' read 'comatose'.

I'm not sure "the wider football world" has ever given that matter a moments thought, we fix on it for the mockage value while you cling to it to give your over sad history a modicum of kudos.

Czarcasm wrote:

Jabba goes on about Swansea slipping through the stable door before it slammed shut.

Someone must have opened it again then, because the two teams that currently occupy the automatic slots are Cardiff and Watford (yes, Watford)
.

Maybe the next two, Hull and Palace are better examples, Cardiff and Watford have big money, well in Watford's case the look of money diue to the players they can call on, come to think of it Swansea were not short of a few quid either.

I don't have an alternative anywhere. All I know is that anyone, including Brent, would be completely bonkers to throw money at a club in league 2 and probably about to exit through the basement soon. In all seriousness why would anyone spend the sort of money that seems to be expected on this? To do so you would have to be a fanatic not just a fan. Brent isn't and never has been.

Why do I think he took it on in the first place you ask. Certainly not for the status of being a football club owner that is for damned sure. On appearances it would seem for the "add ons" he could get by outlaying a small amount of cash if indeed he outlayed any at all. Why didn't he pay the staff in full if he is that rich? Because he probably got that rich by shafting people in the first place as a lot of them do.

I don't think there is much chance of clubs in this league getting to the top league anymore either. Here is a controversial thought. I was actually quite happy with life in the Championship. The standard was pretty good and the players we got in were pretty good also. If, and it is a huge if, we had by some good fortune managed to aspire to the top one day I would have been happy with that but it was never my pressing desire. Lack of ambition? Yes I suppose that is but nonetheless I would have been happier staying there than what transpired.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I don't think there is much chance of clubs in this league getting to the top league anymore either.

I think there are quite a few clubs currently languishing who may in the future reach the promised land, irrespective of how much cash they are raking in the current incumbents can only have 25 in their squad, they may pay them an unconscionable amount of money but that still leaves a lot of players who can be moulded into a well organised set up to mount a challenge a la Swansea.

A lot depends on the amount of cash available, Cardiff, Leicester and Forest being the best current examples of big money making a play, for certain 4th division sides it is only a question of getting into the Chanpionship and having the stake money to give it a go.

At the moment I could see you boys, Bradfud, Rovrum and the Gas with their new ground being of sufficient critical mass to attract the appropriate level of investment, along with a couple or three from L1. As long as 3 up 3 down remains in place it will remain doable if not easy.