IF ....

Brent becomes the new squire of PAFC, what will fans be looking for to consider it a good takeover.
For me :-

1 .... No unsuitable planning requests in the park

2.... Full payment of the employees' arrears

3 .... No loading of NWO debts onto the new club a la Heaney, or it might as well be Heaney.

And what things would you compromise on
For me:-

1 ... I would accept Dunford as CEO, even though he's yesterday's man and I really don't like his attitude, and especially his views on ticket pricing.

2 ... I would even accept Cowderey to stay on temporarily, but only for a short period. The Goebbels of the NWO/Run by fans era has to go within a reasonable time frame.

1) He'll be aware that no FL club survives on gate income alone, so I would like to see a business plan containing his views of how income should be generated or, how he intends to subsidise the club along with a cash flow forecast with consideration given of a Conference existence.

2) Assurances and protection regarding Home Park and its long term future.

3) Assurances that there will be no attempt to overturn existing covenants, or, attempt development outside of the covenants intended values.


Compromise

1) A 30,000 seater stadium instead of a 40,000

2) Newell can visit the business lounge to allow Chris to clean his shoes!

1.Payment of staff and players,including back pay of course,with immediate effect and fulfilling the CVA requirements.

2.A realistic analysis of management and playing staff and subsequent action to ensure that Argyle survive in the football league and then push towards the regaining of second tier status.

3.The resale of Home Park to the city council and negotiation of a suitable rent [possibly on a sliding scale based on status or attendances] for the next two decades.

4.More long term,the rebuilding of the South Stand to give Home Park an achievable 27000 capacity,with room for development if required and with facilities designed to maximise extraneous income.

5.A realisation that,if and when Argyle again reach the second tier,that additional investment must be sought if not able to be provided by the current ownershp.

Not much to ask.

A good takeover:

1) investment in the playing side

2) investment in the playing side

3) investment in the playing side

Anything else, what's the point?

Compromise:

1)The exclusion zone for *****wallet is reduced to 30 miles from Home Park instead of 50 miles

What does everyone think about the Mayflower?
Do we complete a fourth identical stand and effectively create a bowl, or go for something a bit more individual , ie a centrepiece for the ground with lets say brings the capacity up to 21-22,000 ...thoughts?

punchdrunk wrote:

What does everyone think about the Mayflower?
Do we complete a fourth identical stand and effectively create a bowl, or go for something a bit more individual , ie a centrepiece for the ground with lets say brings the capacity up to 21-22,000 ...thoughts?

Bit more individual for me,i don't like Leicester's or Southampton's grounds much,too utilitarian and samey.I quite like Pride Park,new ground with a bit of character.James Brent made an interesting comment the other day,something along the lines of he could see how the South Stand could be "improved"-maybe something could be done using the base of the old stand,if so i hope the corners are developed as well,they look bleddy awful.

If anything is done it will be done half arsed and on the mega cheap. We all know 100% that it will be shit.

Greenskin wrote:

punchdrunk wrote:

What does everyone think about the Mayflower?
Do we complete a fourth identical stand and effectively create a bowl, or go for something a bit more individual , ie a centrepiece for the ground with lets say brings the capacity up to 21-22,000 ...thoughts?

Bit more individual for me,i don't like Leicester's or Southampton's grounds much,too utilitarian and samey.I quite like Pride Park,new ground with a bit of character.James Brent made an interesting comment the other day,something along the lines of he could see how the South Stand could be "improved"-maybe something could be done using the base of the old stand,if so i hope the corners are developed as well,they look bleddy awful.

ye i know lol....when i was a boy and when argyle used to be away i used to pay 50p or summit to watch the ressies play in the jewson south west league (i think lol)
i remember in the house next to the barn park they would display the first team score on big white cards in the top windows.
would be sad to see that house go, but bobbys garden is an abomination and an embarrassment .
I really think that something like the main stand at the Amex would be ideal for us.

I'll just be happy to have my Argo. I love Brent. Lessons from the past can be ignored. Enjoy the ride and trust in.................................

Greenskin wrote:

punchdrunk wrote:

What does everyone think about the Mayflower?
Do we complete a fourth identical stand and effectively create a bowl, or go for something a bit more individual , ie a centrepiece for the ground with lets say brings the capacity up to 21-22,000 ...thoughts?

Bit more individual for me,i don't like Leicester's or Southampton's grounds much,too utilitarian and samey.I quite like Pride Park,new ground with a bit of character.James Brent made an interesting comment the other day,something along the lines of he could see how the South Stand could be "improved"-maybe something could be done using the base of the old stand,if so i hope the corners are developed as well,they look bleddy awful.

A hotel!!

Tringreen wrote:

I'll just be happy to have my Argo. I love Brent. Lessons from the past can be ignored. Enjoy the ride and trust in.................................

Won't trust anyone ever again but that first bit works for me, i'll just be happy to have my Argyle back. Don't give a stuff about investment, revenue streams, development, commercial activities...............we've heard enough about that stuff for a lifetime, time to get back to some good old fashioned shit but honest football.

X Isle wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

I'll just be happy to have my Argo. I love Brent. Lessons from the past can be ignored. Enjoy the ride and trust in.................................

Won't trust anyone ever again but that first bit works for me, i'll just be happy to have my Argyle back. Don't give a stuff about investment, revenue streams, development, commercial activities...............we've heard enough about that stuff for a lifetime, time to get back to some good old fashioned shit but honest football.

Not enough for me Smiffy. Football in general is sick and full of parasites and wannabes. The fans are either glory hunters or fatally addicted mugs.

Enjoy your going nowhere, shit but honest football. I can get that down the rec. Buy the shirt, travel the miles, for what ? To have a day out with yer mates ?

If there is no ambition, no vision, then for me it is only a glance at the results. Argyle remains the biggest city club never to have even reached for the top, let alone actually been there. The self appointed superfans are thick, easily pleased and still can't understand the root causes of our mediocrity. They think everyone else in Plymouth should be as daft as they are and turn up every week, irrespective of the crap going on behind the scenes as well as on the pitch.
Apathetic janners my arse.
Pathetic Aviva boys more like !

"Honest" and "football" are two words that just don't belong in the same sentence, especially at HP. From the boardroom to the fans, there's a stench.

I've had enough shit honest football to last a lifetime too. Why should we have to always put up with a fourth rate football team? It may please the miniscule group of superfans who just want their Argo but it's not good for a city the size of Plymouth. A successful team with a season or two in the big time would do wonders for the place. I don't particularly like seeing local kids wearing Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U kits but that's bound to happen when there is absolutely nothing to excite them locally. I'm afraid Argyle is a joke club to most of them that is only supported by their grandads. A successful Argyle and these kids will come back. They'll wear the shirts. Bollocks to 3,000 praaaaper faaaans supporting their Argo to yet another loss in an atmosphereless, faded, delapitated shabby little stadium. I've had more than enough of that shit!!

Freathy wrote:

I've had enough shit honest football to last a lifetime too. Why should we have to always put up with a fourth rate football team? It may please the miniscule group of superfans who just want their Argo but it's not good for a city the size of Plymouth. A successful team with a season or two in the big time would do wonders for the place. I don't particularly like seeing local kids wearing Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U kits but that's bound to happen when there is absolutely nothing to excite them locally. I'm afraid Argyle is a joke club to most of them that is only supported by their grandads. A successful Argyle and these kids will come back. They'll wear the shirts. Bollocks to 3,000 praaaaper faaaans supporting their Argo to yet another loss in an atmosphereless, faded, delapitated shabby little stadium. I've had more than enough of that shit!!

One look in at a fanfest and you see the nature of the beast/ problem.Have a look at the photos on GOS from last Saturday.
I am the father of three grown lads, all of whom were discouraged from adopting Luton or Watford, as local clubs to Tring when they were growing up. They flirted with the big clubs but through my addiction, have a place in their hearts for Argyle and have been with me to matches, until the last 3 years. Where is their generation in all the photos ?

ps Welcome to our latest member 'coalportal'. Location given as Australia. G'day mate !

Oh dear, note to self, don't be honest .

I thought the thread title was "IF", that's my honest initial reaction, that WILL be how it is to start with.

Where we go from that basecamp who knows. Someone bankrolling us with a blank cheque though?, no thanks, if this process has taught us anything it's that sooner or later, one day, bills will need paying. One thing I do know though and that's the scope for growth will outstrip anything we'd have seen under the glass ceiling of Messrs. Gibraltan Private Landlord Rent and Twenty Grand Pete. We're (fingers crossed) heading for the best possible outcome available, it would seem churlish and pointless therefore to pooh pooh it just because it's not a rich benefactor..........an outcome that was NEVER available to us.

Fair one on the fans who would be kings though, i'd forgotten about them. But then they are easily forgettable I suppose. A club is what it means to you, not what someone else represents it as. It's why I saw no resemblence to MY Argyle so far but I can see some now, and not because some beardy weirdies have put some scarves up in a tent either, just because of the person at the top and how he's treating our staff and players.

And for every one of you Smiffo, there are four of me ... how about that for a reality check. This Argyle isn't the Argyle I have in my heart, nor is it in the heart of my family or friends that have stopped going on a regular basis . We've all done the Div 4 football thing in the past without a squeak of complaint, that's not the initial problem. It's the culture that has landed on top of Home Park and it doen't look to me like the sale is going to change things much. All that will happen is a change of a couple of chairs at the Captain's table on a row boat. The same old BOG gang are still there ruining any possibility of a fresh start... they would have the likes of Peter Ridsdale if they could get away with it, and even ask back members of the NWO ... they're welcome to that....hope they enjoy the ride.

Pirates last week, Pirates this week.... it's good honest fun.... well, nearly. At least it doesn't have the baggage.

X Isle wrote:

Oh dear, note to self, don't be honest .

I thought the thread title was "IF", that's my honest initial reaction, that WILL be how it is to start with.

Where we go from that basecamp who knows. Someone bankrolling us with a blank cheque though?, no thanks, if this process has taught us anything it's that sooner or later, one day, bills will need paying. One thing I do know though and that's the scope for growth will outstrip anything we'd have seen under the glass ceiling of Messrs. Gibraltan Private Landlord Rent and Twenty Grand Pete. We're (fingers crossed) heading for the best possible outcome available, it would seem churlish and pointless therefore to pooh pooh it just because it's not a rich benefactor..........an outcome that was NEVER available to us.

Fair one on the fans who would be kings though, i'd forgotten about them. But then they are easily forgettable I suppose. A club is what it means to you, not what someone else represents it as. It's why I saw no resemblence to MY Argyle so far but I can see some now, and not because some beardy weirdies have put some scarves up in a tent either, just because of the person at the top and how he's treating our staff and players.

Not having a go Smiffy. Just saying it how I personally see it. Ever since the 70's and the Waiters/ Mariner debacle, I have felt the same frustration and irritation. Particularly when having to witness other clubs with less attendance potential to ours, having a real go and many having their days in the sun.
Old school Janner mediocrity seems to be our thing, sadly.
Aviva got it spot on. They could've filmed a fanfest, with a few voice overs ffs !
Everyone to their own though.

ps. just had a disturbing thought. Imagined being on the Pasoti/ GT's coach on the road to Crawley............................ and no booze allowed !
What a waste of a sunny day.

Don't reckon it's possible to watch Argyle without the aid of alcohol so yes, that'd be a grim trip.

Funnily enough I was talking Waiters/Mariner in the beer garden yesterday with an older fan and he said much the same, guess it's a generational thing we were spared by not being active at the time.

We can only say it as we see it and as Penz enjoyed his day out at the Pirates yesterday, so I enjoyed a great atmosphere in Crawley's cow shed. Each to their own. It doesn't make me a beard, an Aviva or anything else for that matter. I'm my own person and I loved it for what it was, a right good laaf. (I'll apologise for that it it makes you feel better Penz but it'd be entirely false and insincere).

As you say Tring each to their own.

X Isle wrote:

As you say Tring each to their own.

I couldn't agree more. The trouble is the Bishops and geeks call the likes of me fickle .. in fact I'm sure you yourself have remarked on the apathetic Janner mentality, whatever that is construed to mean.
Does this mean you've seen the light ? it's not apathetic after all, it's just each to their own ?

And just to put the matter straight, in view of the weather and my desire to head West again for the weekend, I missed the Pirates in Plymouth, how fickle is that, but bunked in and caught the second half of the second XV game at the Mennaye ... a nice pint of Tribute ... it's everywhere these days ... and a fine view of the real geeks with their model yachts on the boating pool... great stuff. Plymouth used to have a boating pool ... in Central Park actually next to HP ... they soon got rid of that ... couldn't find a way of charging for it I guess.

On this site you won't find Superfans and wannabee clique members and there's no stigma attached to being a "part timer". We all have differing views yet we all have an interest in PAFC...that's all that matters.

penzancepirate wrote:

X Isle wrote:

As you say Tring each to their own.

I couldn't agree more. The trouble is the Bishops and geeks call the likes of me fickle .. in fact I'm sure you yourself have remarked on the apathetic Janner mentality, whatever that is construed to mean.
Does this mean you've seen the light ? it's not apathetic after all, it's just each to their own ?

To an extent, yes, I have seen the light. I used to have a regular joust with Neil Jenkins over this very point. His explanation of persistently dashed hopes, eternal circles of hope and failed realisation eventually sunk in. It's a generational thing, if you'll forgive me you sound like you've been about longer to pick up more disappointments. In turn I now look at young upstarts like Cobi and their insufferable positivity and think to myself, that was me once, that fella's gonna have his own epithany one day.

I still believe there is a stubborn mentality of f*ck 'em that doesn't necessarily NEED to persist when regimes change. But yes, for 'fickle' or 'apathetic' you could just as easily read 'bruised'.

I'm in a half way house on positivity. It went, big style, I wanted no part of a Peter Ridsdale or a PPDL. What's coming gives me hope that honour and values are making a comeback. But even though i've championed JB throughout the process no-one gets a blank canvass, it's a mark of my new found bruised status.

Its interesting to talk about a "circle" as an Argyle fan.

My first game as an 8 year old in November 1985 during the Dave Smith promotion season. Of course I thought football was always going to be like that and I was hooked. I was too young to understand the slide that followed due to the lack of investment. As a teenager I got excited about the Shilton years. The relegation to the 4th division was just a blip and Wembley made up for it all. I bought my first season ticket in the Hodges years and travelling around shithole grounds watching terrible football did not bother me. Away trips were fun and it was more about being on the beer with my mates then anything. Then the Luggy era began and like most of us I enjoyed the ride. But I remember looking around me and remembering the bad old days because I never thought it would last. I didn't predict the downfall of the Stapes era like others did, but I do remember being very disillusioned with the style of football in second Holloway season. Then I moved east and have only watched the collapse from afar.

But if Carl Fletcher and James Brent takes on another Luggyesque rise through the divisions I will never have the same passion as before. We won 2 championships in 3 years - one of them with 102 points. We saw 3 sides of the ground rebuilt. We had a reserve team for the first time in years and the club began to take itself seriously off the pitch. And in Pulis and Ollie we had 2 managers good enough to take our team to the premiership. And all of this with no investment from the board, during a time of massive investment in football when billionaires wanting to become millionaires were growing on trees.

Argyle's history is littered with blown chances.......and I don't think we will ever blow a bigger chance then we did in the years 2005-07. You old timers talk about the Waiters/Mariner era in the same way - the damage from that debacle lasted for decades, but I think this could be far worse.

Frank............ it is unlike me to be optimistic I know where Argyle are concerned but I was encouraged by the words of Brent, almost certainly advised by Peter Jones, when he said that if he completes the deal, this city club can rise again without additional resources. He is correct. A decent manager, with level appropriate funding , will start winning and our gates will rise into the teens of thousands again. We will always be one of the bigger fish in the 3rd/ 4th tiers.
Both he and PJ also recognise that additional funding will be required at Championship level and Brent said that it would then be time to hand on the baton to someone with sufficient funds and interest in football, to complete the job.
My additional view is that PJ has contacts with 'Argyle people' with money and I can envisage these people being invited in, to invest in the club, probably sooner rather than later.

What frustrates me however, is that these most fundamental forward issues concerning the club, still do not seem to have been understood and inwardly digested by the likes of Newell and his chums.
Hopefully, that won't matter.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Its interesting to talk about a "circle" as an Argyle fan.

My first game as an 8 year old in November 1985 during the Dave Smith promotion season. Of course I thought football was always going to be like that and I was hooked. I was too young to understand the slide that followed due to the lack of investment. As a teenager I got excited about the Shilton years. The relegation to the 4th division was just a blip and Wembley made up for it all. I bought my first season ticket in the Hodges years and travelling around shithole grounds watching terrible football did not bother me. Away trips were fun and it was more about being on the beer with my mates then anything. Then the Luggy era began and like most of us I enjoyed the ride. But I remember looking around me and remembering the bad old days because I never thought it would last. I didn't predict the downfall of the Stapes era like others did, but I do remember being very disillusioned with the style of football in second Holloway season. Then I moved east and have only watched the collapse from afar.

But if Carl Fletcher and James Brent takes on another Luggyesque rise through the divisions I will never have the same passion as before. We won 2 championships in 3 years - one of them with 102 points. We saw 3 sides of the ground rebuilt. We had a reserve team for the first time in years and the club began to take itself seriously off the pitch. And in Pulis and Ollie we had 2 managers good enough to take our team to the premiership. And all of this with no investment from the board, during a time of massive investment in football when billionaires wanting to become millionaires were growing on trees.

Argyle's history is littered with blown chances.......and I don't think we will ever blow a bigger chance then we did in the years 2005-07. You old timers talk about the Waiters/Mariner era in the same way - the damage from that debacle lasted for decades, but I think this could be far worse.

Could well be,Frank.It would be interesting to see what gates would be like should we get on another run a la the Sturrock years of 2001-2005. It may well be that terminal disiilusionment has set in with thousands of supporters after this fiasco and they just won't return.You mention the Mariner affair-even in my limited contact area,i know of at least a dozen supporters [regulars,too] who have not set foot inside HP since,such was their exasperation at the club blowing a heaven sent opportunity to build a team around a great player.Same in the sixties too,in a different sort of way,players like Book,Jackson,Jones,Trebilcock and Jennings sold off,cheap,mostly over the hill replacements brought in,with the inevitable result.It was not brought about by low gates either-Argyle's crowds compared favourably with many other clubs who made progress and really established themselves as top level outfits and made almost certain that any future stays in the lower divisions would be very short ones.It's a cumulative thing really and it's why the club has engendered apathy and cynicism in the city and surrounds.I would say that the only way for the club to repair the damage long term is to reach the premiership,even of only for a season or two.And that looks a very long way off.It is nonsensical for people to state that the only way forward is for 20000 crowds to turn up at HP-it's putting the cart before the horse to an absurd degree and just won't happen.The onus is on Argyle to hit the heights and become a club for the wider populace to take pride in,otherwise,it'll be "same old,same old", perhaps,as you suggest,even worse this time.