Does The Red Star have a point?

Mate, I think the best thing that can happen is you get relegated. A backward step often leads to moving forward more steps. City needed relegation to the Conference. We needed to get rid of the shit in the Club and needed to blood let. It wasn't easy and it got nasty. City until then were an embarassment. Relegation lead to total rebirth and a better Club, a Club without money, but a Club with a long term future and we started to get lucky (FA Cup)

Young inexperienced managers blooded the youth, built a fantastic youth system and we started playing real football (a first for City). Then came Perryman and Tisdale. The early Conference years were great but a culture shock, yet we were winning more games than losing. Our support increased Tisdale took control and the football is still being played. We aint going bust.

You had the chance to change but for some reason it hasn't happened and foolishly Brent has allowed cretins to represent you. Go down, get rid of the cretins (they should be refused entry to the boardroom and the club on match days) and learn to love your club again, in the same as Rangers are doing in SL3. You need the Trust involved not a mouthpiece like PASLB. You aint Luton (they still haven't learned their lessons) and you will have the chance to go on a real rollercoaster of Promotions, Cup wins, and be ready for a biger step (ALA Swansea).

The Conference will be the best thing that will ever happen to Argyle....not being relegated will delay your future successes IMO

THE ABOVE RESPONSE from an Exeter City supporter, was to my reaction to the Port Vale loss, when I said both The Gulls and The Grecians have been relegated out of the football league in recent times and it looked like our turn now (see Satudays thread By 5pm we will be....). It's a common argument that if you are constantly struggling as a club, by being relegated it gives time to properly rebuild as a squad and a club. My own view is that if we are relegated (again) this will be disastrous in terms of support, footballing credibility and finances. But does the Red Star make a valid point?
to be fair they did say that he/she hope we finish 3rd from bottom this season.

if we get relegated the club dies lets have a bit of ambition for our club shall we.

A (singular) backward step?

Fack me, we've been sprinting backwards for the last 4 years!

Totally agree Angry I have been commenting on the lack of ambition at HP from both owners, management and the fanbase for some time. Thought the whole topic of relegation being possibly beneficial in some way was a good discussion point.

The lack of ambition and acceptance of mediocrity around Argyle is suffocating.

Getting relegated to the conference is different from a 'normal' relegation. Going down from the Championship to L1 could be the opportunity for a 'rebirth', but not relegation to the Conference - that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

Exeter got lucky to some extent. They managed to unearth an excellent manager on the cheap in Tisdale, and they got those cup ties against Man U, which brought in a huge amount of cash. My response to this would be, what other league clubs have 'come back stronger' after getting relegated? Torquay are doing OK (for them) but they aren't exactly setting L2 alight. As a contrast what has happened to Luton, Mansfield and Stockport? Not looking too rosy for them is it? What about Scarborough, Chester and Halifax, they still haven't recovered from their relegations.

Also our financial situation is probably worse than Exeter's was when they got relegated. We have 4 years to pay off a big wodge of debt, and we have no real assets to sell off to cover those repayments if our income took a swallow dive (as it would if we got relegated). I don't know what would happen if we get relegated, and I don't have much appetite to find out.

lets not forget exeter had uri geller as a chairman when they opted to get relegated that season.

they had a brilliant board at the time too

John russell (nearly bankrupted scarborough)
Mike lewis (nearly bankrupted reading)
Uri geller (bender)
his son geller (probably bent too)
Darth vader (he turned to the darkside and was shit ever since)
David blaine (im going to sit in a box and not going to eat for 44 days n nights)

and not forgetting

Michael jackson (the white woman who slept with kids)

still no where near as bad as webb and newell though that board

Dont let any happy clappy fvckwit tell you that the bluesquare is a new cosy division five, its not its non league football the former home of shit small town clubs like exeter torquay and crap like that,non league would be a disasterous nightmare and the final humilliation for this club we must not let the pricks who have landed this club in the shit off the hook, they must do whatever it fvcking takes to keep this club in the football league!

Without knowing the absolute ins and outs of Argyle at present, I'll have to disagree completely with my comrade in red and hazard a guess that relegation to the Conference would be as disasterous for Argyle as it was (seemingly) good for City.

We City fans do seem to actually now look back on the Conference years with a sense of misty eyed nostalgia and somewhat selective memory. Sure, now with the benefit of hindsight its easy to look back with fondness at quaint, simple, 'pure' away days at Forest Greem, the Cup runs in the FA Trophy against the like of Baintree, the outnumbering of home fans when we visited Leigh RMI.

The truth was at the time we were desperate to get out of there, were shrinking year on year, and were probably one - two failed promotion bids away from a more permanent transition to 'non-league offal'.

As elluded to, Manchester United kept as alive; the Trust was fighting a valiant rearguard action and was able to capitilise on the success United boughtour way, but we were on the ropes down there. It wasnt as if the Conference in of itself provided the unique petri dish required for our regeneration, it was just where we were when in happened, helped by a few doses of luck.

And of course our relegation wasnt a massive drop. We went from being perenial stugglers the bottom of the 4th to perenial challangers at the top of the 5th. The decline was short before it bottomed out.

The problem is Argyle are in a much steeper decline, would therefore hit the conference 'harder' and at a deeper dive angle, and the resultant damage theoretically much more severe. You need to arrest the decline before you get there, or I really would fear for you.

whenever someone bleats on about man utd on here i always put this in return

Rise wrote:

Without knowing the absolute ins and outs of Argyle at present, I'll have to disagree completely with my comrade in red and hazard a guess that relegation to the Conference would be as disasterous for Argyle as it was (seemingly) good for City.

We City fans do seem to actually now look back on the Conference years with a sense of misty eyed nostalgia and somewhat selective memory. Sure, now with the benefit of hindsight its easy to look back with fondness at quaint, simple, 'pure' away days at Forest Greem, the Cup runs in the FA Trophy against the like of Baintree, the outnumbering of home fans when we visited Leigh RMI.

The truth was at the time we were desperate to get out of there, were shrinking year on year, and were probably one - two failed promotion bids away from a more permanent transition to 'non-league offal'.

As elluded to, Manchester United kept as alive; the Trust was fighting a valiant rearguard action and was able to capitilise on the success United boughtour way, but we were on the ropes down there. It wasnt as if the Conference in of itself provided the unique petri dish required for our regeneration, it was just where we were when in happened, helped by a few doses of luck.

And of course our relegation wasnt a massive drop. We went from being perenial stugglers the bottom of the 4th to perenial challangers at the top of the 5th. The decline was short before it bottomed out.

The problem is Argyle are in a much steeper decline, would therefore hit the conference 'harder' and at a deeper dive angle, and the resultant damage theoretically much more severe. You need to arrest the decline before you get there, or I really would fear for you.

Wise words, Rise.

Are you really an exeter fan Rise?you seem semi intelligent ,yet tis and red are dumb feckers

Have to say the very thought of being in the Blue Square brings back bad memories of watching The Gulls play several games after relegation from league 2 only a few years ago. Mainly because the quality of the opposition is so crap, most seasons there are best 5 or 6 sides that have a bit of quality the rest is shite. Torquay did really well under Paul Buckle to escape after 2 seasons from a league which is notoriously difficult to get out from. As always we will see.

Chaps, it appears you need the Conference for some humility, you have learnt feck all at present. All you see are words written by a City fan (an educated, articulate, good looking City fan...I'll grant you that) and you are blinkered, maybe blinded. When your friends give you advice, listen...when your enemies gives you advice you should fecking take it.

Tisdale was not unearthed and was the 3rd in a line of young footballing managers...We are a small Club but maybe we won't always be one and yet we are light years ahead of you on the pitch and off it. The Chiefs are proof of the growth of Exeter, 100% employment, head office after head office relocation to Exeter...a £1 billion (yes £1 billion) reinvestment in Exeter University (the whole City is changing...state of the art University rebuilding in student accomodation (these are wealthy students), a 15000 new town 3 miles away and new build after new build everywhere...the total change in road links, not one boarded up shop, all schools rebuilt, 4 new hotels , expanding Airport, a bigger rail link....little ole Exeter City
can only benefit...from bigger crowds, more money...its happening...all at a time when Plymouth is on its knees...IT IS NO COINCIDENCE.

If you go down to the Conference you will not be the biggest Club there, the same as you are not the biggest Club in Division 4.

You have got Webb and Newell because you haven't got a clue and you are living in the past, a past of "former glories".

Admittedly Exeter got lucky in the FA Cup draw, lucky still got half the gate receipts of a 70K plus crowd and drew against a side containing 11 internationals...Exeter was always going to get lucky.

Enjoy the Conference, if indeed you are lucky to get there or enjoy your 2nd administration, there will be no coming back from that for you

Sorry to dissapoint you redstar, but we will stay up we are not some small crap club that plays in large skip, the bluesquare is for little clubs like you and the birdshit, not us

I differ from m'learned friend, our relegation was at the crutch of the change from the Muppet Show as listed above to Trust ownership, we were totally Fubar and had nowhere to go but up, struggling at the bottom of the Conference would have been a result for us.

Your structure would not change if you went down, all that would happen would be that Harry would rationalise even more, cutting costs and rubbing his little piggy fingers together as he saw increased profits coming from his development, stay up, go down, Brent and the land development will still be your future.

Your best course will be for Norn Boy to stop the rot, instil a little pride and organisation resulting in a solid if unspectacular rise up the table, the resulting increase in attendance and the retention of Football League status money will make the servicing of your debt that much easier thereby freeing up more cash for the playing budget.

Going down wouldn't in turn be the end of the world, some of your Billy Big Bollox boys would have to get used to crying themselves to sleep, bu it ain't that bad.

At some point in the near future you will either have the best ground in the Conference, L2 or L1, well maybe not the best in L1. You will then have the issue of filling those acres of puke green seats, if Brent is still up front then you will have a club run on good business lines, if he has cut and run you will either have Nikkkkkkk or some other monied Janner chucking a few quid at the problem or a functioning Trust struggling to make ends meet.

My point is that it would be easier to do that from a League status rather than NL, your evolution to that position will be regulated by the development not relegation.

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

Sorry to dissapoint you redstar, but we will stay up we are not some small crap club that plays in large skip, the bluesquare is for little clubs like you and the birdshit, not us

Just for you Suffers this is a list of "little" clubs who have recently been in the Conference yet who seem to be in a higher league position than you GAWS.

Wigan
Peterboro
Doncaster
Carlisle
Yeovil
Stevenage
Crawley
Cheltenham
Fleetwood
Burton
Oxford
Dagenham
York
Torquay
Wycombe
Accrington
Morecambe
Aldershot
Barnet
AFC Wimbledon

And of course, Exeter City FC.

Red Star my friend, a lot of Argyle fans live and / or work, in and around Exeter and while a lot of what you claim is happening around Exeter is correct, just as much is bullshit.

There is just as much regeneration work taking place in Plymouth. The only things missing are some ships to put in Western Europe's biggest naval base and a decent football team.

With this government the Navy is f**ked and will probably never recover. Our football team is .................... , we'll let you know at the end of April.

Richard Blight wrote:

Red Star my friend, a lot of Argyle fans live and / or work, in and around Exeter and while a lot of what you claim is happening around Exeter is correct, just as much is bullshit.

There is just as much regeneration work taking place in Plymouth. The only things missing are some ships to put in Europe's biggest naval base and a decent football team.

With this government the Navy is f**ked and will probably never recover. Our football team is .................... , we'll let you know at the end of April.

I think you mean Western Europe's biggest naval base and it might be a tad unfair to blame the current mob for the demise of the RN.

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

Are you really an exeter fan Rise?you seem semi intelligent ,yet tis and red are dumb feckers

Well, I sure as shyte aint an Argyle fan!

No, I am red by persuasion because of geographical heritigtude.
However, as much as I used to be a knuckle dragging "We 8 Argyle and Piss in a green and white pot" moron, I think I've grown of that sufficently to take a sensible, balanced interest in things Argyle as another local football entity. This has been largely born out of an idea I've had recently whilst watching all three clubs wallow from disaster to mild success to mediocrity again that we all have really got it wrong down here. It really should be 'us' against the world, and if any club in Devon is going to ever achieve anything of note, it'll be - broadly speaking - the three of us together, or none of us at all.

We bang on about populations and other BS statistics, but the truth is that the footballing population of Devon is limited to the point that if we want to see real success down this way, we will in liklihood have to achieve it in support of one another at the expense of historical but ultimatley self limiting tribalism. However, as this view would be almost universally unpopular, I fear we are all destined to be Div4 makeweights (or, Ok, Div3). But I digress, it is because of this view that I try to view and discuss Argyle (and City for that matter) with a level head, I simply can't be arsed with that simpleton and backwards 'banter' anymore, and is why I now address my comrade TRS as such:

The Red Star wrote:

Chaps, it appears you need the Conference for some humility, you have learnt feck all at present.

Did we learn humility from the Conference then? Because I seem to remember Exeweb going into barely sub-nuclear meltdown when we went out to Curzon Ashton in Round 1 of the cup in our first season back amoung the "elite" of the Football League. And all of a sudden we seem to have found this expectation from somewhere that we should be rolling over Div4 off the back of a mere three seasons in Div3, two of which were relegation scraps, one was of which was a catastrophic wimper of a failure. Yet there are calls doing the rounds for Tisdale's head because we arent up there with the Gills and Vale. Humility learned?

The Red Star wrote:

Tisdale was not unearthed

Of course Tisdale was unearthed. He didnt exactly come with a reputation at our level of the game. Just as we 'unearthed' Matt Taylor, Ryan Harley et al. Whats wrong with that?

The Red Star wrote:

The Chiefs are proof of the growth of Exeter

The Chiefs are proof only of what a committed benefactor can achieve, and ironically runs counter to our own supposed ethos. We really shouldnt be holding the Chiefs up as any kind role-model while we seem hell bent on NOT following them.

Yes, Exeter as a city is a nice place on the up, and certainly much better than Plymouth (breeding bias may be talking here). Its relevancy I'm not sold on though.

The Red Star wrote:

If you go down to the Conference you will not be the biggest Club there, the same as you are not the biggest Club in Division 4.

If Argyle go down to the Conference, they may well not have the best team, arguably they almost certianly wont to begin with, but who down there really could claim to be 'bigger'; Luton? Grimsby? Lincoln? Not that size would have any bearing on anything. Argyle would be where they deserved to be, as we were.

The Red Star wrote:

You have got Webb and Newell because you haven't got a clue and you are living in the past, a past of "former glories".

Tieing in Newell and Webb to some percieved 'cluelessness' and 'living it the past' seems rather disingenious. What qualities was it in our fanbase that lumbered us with Russell, Lewis, Gellar and Jackson?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

Red Star my friend, a lot of Argyle fans live and / or work, in and around Exeter and while a lot of what you claim is happening around Exeter is correct, just as much is bullshit.

There is just as much regeneration work taking place in Plymouth. The only things missing are some ships to put in Europe's biggest naval base and a decent football team.

With this government the Navy is f**ked and will probably never recover. Our football team is .................... , we'll let you know at the end of April.

I think you mean Western Europe's biggest naval base and it might be a tad unfair to blame the current mob for the demise of the RN.

Your quite correct about W.Europe but we could have quite a debate about how useful the Navy is without any aircraft carriers. Even when the two new carriers are finished we won't have the aircraft to put on them. We won't have the frigates and destroyers to protect them either. This bunch of idiots are even talking about mothballing one of them before it's even finished. That's politicians for you though.

Anyway back to the football.

I think TRS is being a tad selective there, some of those clubs left non league football decades ago. Still they have left non league I suppose, but there are plenty of ex league clubs stuck in the BSP and Macclesfield and Hereford who went down last year aren't setting the world alight.

I think the best comparison to us is Luton. Similar profile to us in terms of crowds and the speed of decline as well. Luton were in the CCC along with us in 2006/7 and then went down and through administration.

They've been in the conference playoffs every season since going down from league 2 and it looks like that's on the cards again.

With only one team going up each season I can't see any reason why it would do us good. Staff would be slashed to the minimum possible and away support, already low, would be virtually non existant at home park. Some fans might think visiting a few grounds like alfreton might be a laugh but the novelty would soon wear off and we're not that massive a club that 700 Barrow fans are going to come to see our majestic stadium.

Luton get between 5-6k gates now for league games and we're getting that now in a higher league. Sure we would get more turning up if we were top but how many of you would rush to HP on a February evening match against Tamworth?

We need to stay up. Brent supposedly has a plan in place in case we do go down and it's probably run the club even more cheaply than it is now and get his developments finished as quickly as possible before waving goodbye to Webb and Newell from the taxi.

Greenjock wrote:

........there are plenty of ex league clubs stuck in the BSP and Macclesfield and Hereford who went down last year aren't setting the world alight.

Be under no illusion, a team that is bad enough to get relegated from League 2 is not anywhere near good enough to even achieve mid table in The Conference the following season without major and wholesale changes; indeed probably poor enough to suffer a further immediate relegation or at best spend the entire season fighting one off.

But then, that has been the story of Argyle since you came out of The Championship yet still widespread delusions of being a "big club" still pervade and no better example can be the ludicrous assumption that the gates would average 8k this season.

You'll find The Conference has a far greater league wide defined focus on finishing top (and thus attain the ONLY guaranteed promotion spot) than League 2 ever has ~ indeed so many clubs appear to aim merely for the play off spots in League 2 it is the biggest illustration of the all round mediocrity in that league that I can think of.

Until your forums and message boards are totally rid of the "big club", "shit league", "small time neighbours" attitudes so prevailant then YOUR club will continue to be the least achieving of Devon's three full time pro' clubs.

Do not delude yourselves further, The Conference is a hell of a hard league to get out of in an upward direction ~ how many clubs have returned to The Footbal League in one season, indeed how many have matched Torquay United's doing it in two?

OK Merse I have stopped kidding myself and I don't think I'm deluded, what happens now?

akagreengull wrote:

A backward step often leads to moving forward more steps. City needed relegation to the Conference. We needed to get rid of the shit in the Club and needed to blood let. It wasn't easy and it got nasty. City until then were an embarassment. Relegation lead to total rebirth and a better Club, a Club without money, but a Club with a long term future

The best thing for you is that your club adopt the mentality illustrated above.

Your club might have changed hands but it hasn't changed if you see what I mean. How long a contract has John Sheridan been given? That is important because if he does not keep you up you will need an entirely different sort of manager with a CV diametrically opposed to his. Loads of experienced of the level you are going into ~ Tisdale had learned the non league game at Team Bath, Buckle at Aldershot, Weymouth and Exeter ~ and recruited his playing squad accordingly. Torquay brought in Chris Hargreaves, Lee Mansell, Lee Phillips, Chris Todd, Tim Sills and Kevin Nicholson...............all as good as you'd get at scrapping it out at or around the top of The Conference with it's particular demands and rather idiosyncratic ways. Players who really were used to being big fishes in a small pool.

At present your club perceive themselves to be big in a small time league yet employ young, fringe type pro's unused to such demands being made of them week in week out. This is how most League 2 clubs operate but without the destructive "Big Club" attitude within and amongst their support which weakens your cause year in year out.

If you go down with Sheridan remaining in charge, what experience does he have of that level? None whatsoever! Your club will then need to be looking to tempt a Dave Hockaday (Forest Green Rovers) type figure, a Dave Holdsworth or a Terry Brown to put your club on the right sort of footing for a realistic chance of re-grouping and getting back into the Football League within (let's say) five years..................would James Brent or Nool 'n Fool know who they are even? I doubt it.

Does your club owner and his sycophants give the impression all that is appreciated? Not one bit I would venture!