Another month, another wage deferral

Its being reported on Pasoti that all staff have been asked to defer their whole pay packet for this month. Striking would seem the only course for action, unless one of the buyers steps in? Wouldn't be surprised if the yoofs play on saturday.

Well, there we have it people ... the latest from James Brent

Quote :

"There are a number of stakeholders and clearly to make an acquisition we need definitive agreement, and until we get definitive agreement we can't get it done.

"Rather than quietly confident I'm quietly hopeful.
"It is complicated. It will take weeks rather than days to close something, and until it's done, it's not done.
"I've ended the week happier than I started it. There's no saying if something will blow up tomorrow or Monday that won't become a tank trap, but there's none in sight at the moment."

Sounds just like Heaney to me .... onward toward Christmas then... and not a wage packet in sight ... outrageous ... looks like my May 2012 forecast still hasn't gone out of the window yet. And do the buyers need the league share and therefore to pay the football creditors, if we're relegated to the conference ? ... could that mwean a total FC default and a bonanza for the money men concerned ?

This guy Brent will turn into a joker pretty quickly if he's not careful. I have always wondered if he wasn't more clued in on the Heaney/Ridsdale thing than is public knowledge.
So much for Chris Webb's mantra of two weeks or bust ... do me a favour Chris, tone it down, nobody believes it... least of all P and A.

So in effect, the Pasoti Trust are backing a fella that is not paying the staff, despite his promises?

Get the buckets out again!

Come on then Brent you cuuunter, time to cough up for exclusivity you tight minge.

Even Heaney managed a month's worth.

Seriously, what I'd like is for the Trust to grow some balls, quit this nibbling of Brent's rich ballsack and come out and say 'no'.

He has known about the club being for sale for the best part of a year now. They must set a deadline for him to complete, after which strike action will take place. No ifs, buts, deferrals.

I even just read one post on Tony stating how we should give Brent more time as "no-one back in May could have forecast that Heaney/BIL wouldn't have the money to complete".

Erm, WTF.

Pay up or fuck off.

Pity you are f*cking off Mock. You'd make the perfect rabble rouser.

I am sure that Brent's plans will be revealed today and we will be able to glory in the saviour of Argyle. Speeches will be made and statues commissioned.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

I am sure that Brent's plans will be revealed today and we will be able to glory in the saviour of Argyle. Speeches will be made and statues commissioned.

Will it also be time for the plastics to return, as dear old ' David' provides the funds to get some decent loan players in to save our league status? Or would that be jumping the gun and the Pasoti Trust will be commanded to organise more buckets, bats n beerfest fun to pay for bibs n balls ?

Tringreen wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

I am sure that Brent's plans will be revealed today and we will be able to glory in the saviour of Argyle. Speeches will be made and statues commissioned.

Will it also be time for the plastics to return, as dear old ' David' provides the funds to get some decent loan players in to save our league status? Or would that be jumping the gun and the Pasoti Trust will be commanded to organise more buckets, bats n beerfest fun to pay for bibs n balls ?

I am sure Ridsdale will use his "contacts" in the game to make sure we are safe. He has such a good track record of success.

Hmm, this thread drips venom like a good slice of lardy cake drips sugary fat. As we've learned of old I respect but don't FULLY share your PASOTI/Trust/Aviva/Farm thing so refuse point blank to drag James Brent into the mix. Bottom line is he didn't ask them to nail their colours to his mast did he.

If in about five months time the age deferals are continuing with no sign of completion, no sign of money and having endured a five month period of lies, half truths, smoke and mirrors THEN you can say he's as bad as Heaney. Until then he's quietly getting on with what needs doing and by comparison is doing so at lightning speed.

He said he'd speak to every stakeholder by today (so done in less than a week) and would say whether he can proceed or not as a result. If so he'd look to complete around the end of the month, a not inconsiderable feat given the 500 or so contracts that would need signing off. He's not breached any deadline, he's not done anything he said he wouldn't either. Judge him on what he does. If he completes he WILL be the saviour of Plymouth Argyle, it's a shame you guys sometimes readily allow unconnected standpoints to cloud things.

Smiffy, I really hope you are right, but as I have often stated it will be a long time before I trust anyone involved in Argyle again.

A lot as been made of Brent's honesty and integrity, but you don't get to be a multi millionaire without being a bit ruthless. How will that ruthless side react in the barking mad business of football? I always thought McCauley had the ego for being a football chairman but he had too much business sense to really go for it. I fear that Brent might be the same (but obviously a far better person).

I agree with judging him by actions and not words. So lets see what today brings

His actions bear scrutiny to date, even going back to his first involvement earlier in the year, he's not put a foot wrong in terms of consistency of position. He made a booboo with not explaining the 'reluctant' tag he got saddled with but as I said at the time a reluctant man in it for all the right reasons beats a superkeen dreamer in it for all the wrong ones.

Just don't tar him with the same brush as the 'fans who would be kings'. THEY were up to a couple of short weeks ago making noises of desire to get BIL over the line, they've only fully jumped onto Brents side of the fence when BIL didn't. Brent doesn't get to choose his admirers and shouldn't be thought ill of as a direct consequence.

X Isle wrote:

His actions bear scrutiny to date, even going back to his first involvement earlier in the year, he's not put a foot wrong in terms of consistency of position. He made a booboo with not explaining the 'reluctant' tag he got saddled with but as I said at the time a reluctant man in it for all the right reasons beats a superkeen dreamer in it for all the wrong ones.

Just don't tar him with the same brush as the 'fans who would be kings'. THEY were up to a couple of short weeks ago making noises of desire to get BIL over the line, they've only fully jumped onto Brents side of the fence when BIL didn't. Brent doesn't get to choose his admirers and shouldn't be thought ill of as a direct consequence.

Agreed. My saviour quote is aimed at those who would be kings. I never thought that Brent will be commissioning his own statue.

X Isle wrote:

His actions bear scrutiny to date, even going back to his first involvement earlier in the year, he's not put a foot wrong in terms of consistency of position. He made a booboo with not explaining the 'reluctant' tag he got saddled with but as I said at the time a reluctant man in it for all the right reasons beats a superkeen dreamer in it for all the wrong ones.

Just don't tar him with the same brush as the 'fans who would be kings'. THEY were up to a couple of short weeks ago making noises of desire to get BIL over the line, they've only fully jumped onto Brents side of the fence when BIL didn't. Brent doesn't get to choose his admirers and shouldn't be thought ill of as a direct consequence.

Fair comment.

Fascinating tactics from P and A and Ridsdale .... they've totally left the stage and left it to Brent to field everything.
None of the Pasoti Trust leaders have actually clearly stated they want the staff to refuse the deferrals , although, to be fair, IJN did appear to make some sort of murmur.
It seems that as long as they are rattling buckets, they feel it's ok for Brent to carry on in the way Heaney did. October will see this confirmed as they all get behind yet another deferral in embarrassing silence, bar the same old "we're nearing the finishing strait" .. and all after the scare of two weeks or bust !

The whole macro process is intended to knock down the staff and players this season ... it's a massive amount of money now and growing by the bucketload .... should leave a tidy sum to pay off more of the previous owners who are playing the administrators far better than the employees.

Who actually buys the club and diddles the employees in the end is irrelevant ... what is relevant is the mix of creditors satisfied..... sickening, and yet people are still pootling up to HP to support this administration regime.

I can agree with quite a bit of that Penz but like I say it's way too premature to start comparing what James Brent has done in the last week with the complete arse-dragging excercise that Heaney was engaged in.

I fully salute your thoughts on attending and financially supporting the administration regime though. *IF* it turns out OK then hindsight may vindicate them to some extent, they'll certainly seek to. However at all points up to and including now (because Heaney deals could still suddenly come good and he turns up with a big cheque) they have been paying/are paying into the pot in support of a property carve up and a strangulated £1 tenancy football club.

We may ALL get the best set-up we could haved hoped for in the circumstances in the end, only a few however held true to their moral compass and were not prepared in whole or part to sell-out to a doomed set-up. I still maintain even despite all the terrible football and shocking management of the administration by far the most embarassing point in the whole thing has been the fans on the vigil applauding Peter Ridsdale, shaking his hand and holding a bottle of champagne.

It's not way too premature to start comparing Smiffy, the comparison notes started the day the administrator started to talk to Brent, exactly as they started when the administrator started to talk to Heaney. The only thing I'll agree on is that yes, it's early days but the omen isn't good with yet another deferral of wages in exactly the same form as Heaney's stunts.

So far, the only difference between Heaney and Brent is that unelected, self imposed spokesmen that speak only for themselves, like Brent more then they liked Heaney. I have backed Brent over Heaney but only for the reasons of track record, Brent still has it all to prove!

Smiffy, the club was always going to carry on .... going concern clubs this size just don't go bust .. it doesn't take a Supporters' Trust to work that out.
What is the problem is that as each month goes on, the staff become a bigger and bigger proportion of the creditors, and hence will HAVE to accept a negotiated settlement, and yet the Pasoti collaborators refuse to even mention it.... they'll get their full pay ...blah blah. Rubbish ... all that needs to happen is for the employees to AGREE a settlement.
Every month's deferral is in effect retrieveing 150K for the previous owners and 100K in the trousers of the administrators. There are actually current receipts you know, and of course, more controversially, current expenses ... think about it.

The "predicted" loss this year was £1.2m ... well in my estimation, even accounting for the admin costs, that should mean the staff should at least be receiving two thirds of their earnings regardless of a takeover ... especially at this stage of the playing season. No one within Pasoti trust seems to give a damn, they're all afraid to speak out. The staff and players need to act, and act now, or every month, their eventual losses will be increasing exponentially. there is a finite price for the club, these staff will HAVE TO negotiate a cut if they carry on deferring ad infinitum ..... they should see themselves as current expenses, not future creditors ... they're stark raving mad.

GOB wrote:

It's not way too premature to start comparing Smiffy, the comparison notes started the day the administrator started to talk to Brent, exactly as they started when the administrator started to talk to Heaney. The only thing I'll agree on is that yes, it's early days but the omen isn't good with yet another deferral of wages in exactly the same form as Heaney's stunts.

So far, the only difference between Heaney and Brent is that unelected, self imposed spokesmen that speak only for themselves, like Brent more then they liked Heaney. I have backed Brent over Heaney but only for the reasons of track record, Brent still has it all to prove!

Well he's obviously gone some way, by proving himself worthy of your backing. He was my man right from the off, neither Buttivant or Heaney cut the mustard in comparison. But yes, ANY owner that follows the NWO and before them Stapleton will face a massive job to achieve trust from the fanbase. I'd almost go so far as to say it's vitrually impossible we'll ever do so.

I don't agree it's fair to compare like for like just because they entered the race at the same time. Had exclusivity not happened and both parties could do their own due dilligence and stakeholder negotiations at the same time then comparison would be fair. As it was though James Brent had to sit respectfully twiddling his thumbs while Heaney and Guilfoyle embarked on the neverending clusterf*ck that transpired. He would have been entirely within his rights to pass the opportunity when it became clear Heaney had finally dropped the ball. He came back in though, absolutely true to his word (a rarity in this process) as a back stop, that's because his motivations were noble and his position consistent. That surely HAS to be a credit to him.

Heaney was passed a brand new ball by Guilfoyle and had five months to play with it. Brent has been handed a five month old ball, that's covered in sh1t and half deflated. Comparisons are not fair at this stage IMHO.

As regards the staff in the middle of all this Penz, I think they should be the arbiters of what they see as being fair treatment. They've been at the coalface and born the brunt of everything the three amigos threw at them. They will now be dealing with James Brent, a man who has already in one press statement made more acknowledgement of their plight than the three of them ever did. They will decide if he's 'more of the same' or not, our opinions are just outside speculation. I have faith, based on what i've observed from him and how he's done business before, that he'll treat them right and they'll be looked after.

Like everything hindsight will judge him. But so far I don't think he's worthy of being accused of being no better than Heaney in his dealings, not now, not in the couple of weeks he's set either.

X Isle wrote:

As regards the staff in the middle of all this Penz, I think they should be the arbiters of what they see as being fair treatment. They've been at the coalface and born the brunt of everything the three amigos threw at them ..... I have faith, based on what i've observed from him and how he's done business before, that he'll treat them right and they'll be looked after.

Ha ha ha ... do I detect a bit of "Pasoti Trust in something" bullshit returning there Smiffy ?
What on earth do you mean by "they'll be looked after".... a pint and a pasty, and a couple of months money ?
Sounds like some cynical Victorian philanthropy, and that you think les miserables have the "right" to fall on their sword should they honourably wish ... do ma a favour.
They're owed their wages ... you know, like you work for wages and get paid..... I'll ask you the same I would ask if I posted on the Farm ..... Do you think Brent should and will pay the staff in full ? If he doesn't, will you still support his deal ?

Well well well, it didnt take long for the venom to be spat at Brent, comparing him to Heaney is a complete and utter joke. The guy has had a week, a week in which he has acheived more than Heaney did in 5 months, he has said right from the beggining that he can complete in 3-4 weeks, and getting the council on board to buy the ground back is a masterstroke, not in his favour but for the future of plymouth argyle. If brent saves the club, at least when he moves on people will be buying the club again for football not property. Hopefully this will be the last defferal, and the staff are given a lump sum.

It seems to me there is hell of alot of jealousy on this site regarding pasoti, which is the official and most viewed Argyle forum on the net, and certain people on here sit in little corners like children throwing thier toys about, you really need to get over yourselfs.

We are all Argyle fans no matter what our opinions but im near on 100% certain the there's a few on here that will be more disapointed if Brent comes through and Argyle live to see another day run as a viable business, rather than folding, all so you can say told you so.

Unfortunetely that is why this forum will never be as big as Pasoti, and is dubbed anti-argyle democratic as soon as someone has a differant opinion they get attacked, you lot really need to get over yourself's.

125+1 wrote:

It seems to me there is hell of alot of jealousy on this site regarding pasoti, which is the official and most viewed Argyle forum on the net, and certain people on here sit in little corners like children throwing thier toys about, you really need to get over yourselfs.

Unfortunetely that is why this forum will never be as big as Pasoti, and is dubbed anti-argyle democratic as soon as someone has a differant opinion they get attacked, you lot really need to get over yourself's.

I say let's see if Brent pulls it off before he's annointed Saint, shall we?

Pasoti the 'official' site? Says who? Certainly not Argyle!

Most viewed... So what? Reality TV is the most watched, MacDonalds is the most eaten... It's mostly (like) Pasoti, garbage.

Who on this site has been attacked for their opinion like Esmer, Mariner, Grovehill etc have been on Pasoti?

You obviously had an incident in mind when you made the "attack" statement - show us a link to it, or something similar!

I'm not sure he will be capable of understanding this but I'll give it a bash!

Pasoti is an official site?

It never has been and never will be about "size", comparing cocks is something that small men do, often in public toilets.

You won't find a soul on here that gives a toss about what this site is dubbed.

Hope that helps!

Oh come now 125, hardly venom is it
I happen to think another deferral is out of order, and such a thing is not what fans should be accepting from anyone. It isn't just Brent my comments are aimed at, it's the whole process, the administration culture and the almost certain dragging of feet by the monied creditors that continually leaves the employees last in line in the bread queue. There is another 2 weeks to go, surely Brent can get himself into a more confident position so as to allow himself to release funds for wages. Another empty payday at the end of the month will only give the impression of using the employees as a bargaining ploy.... that is not on.

I have always said, out of all the candidates mentioned, Brent would be my choice due to his former dealings with the city council, although Ridsdale is a continuing concern.

As for size, perhaps you misunderstand what people may like about this site. Personally, I always prefer to avoid Main Street if I can ... who wants to deal with the baying apparatchiks everytime one makes a post... I don't.... each to their own...

125+1 wrote:

Well well well, it didnt take long for the venom to be spat at Brent, comparing him to Heaney is a complete and utter joke. The guy has had a week, a week in which he has acheived more than Heaney did in 5 months, he has said right from the beggining that he can complete in 3-4 weeks, and getting the council on board to buy the ground back is a masterstroke, not in his favour but for the future of plymouth argyle. If brent saves the club, at least when he moves on people will be buying the club again for football not property. Hopefully this will be the last defferal, and the staff are given a lump sum.

It seems to me there is hell of alot of jealousy on this site regarding pasoti, which is the official and most viewed Argyle forum on the net, and certain people on here sit in little corners like children throwing thier toys about, you really need to get over yourselfs.

We are all Argyle fans no matter what our opinions but im near on 100% certain the there's a few on here that will be more disapointed if Brent comes through and Argyle live to see another day run as a viable business, rather than folding, all so you can say told you so.

Unfortunetely that is why this forum will never be as big as Pasoti, and is dubbed anti-argyle democratic as soon as someone has a differant opinion they get attacked, you lot really need to get over yourself's.

There is no jealousy mate. Read carefully what the Pirate is saying. It makes perfect sense to me. In brief, Brent does appear to be making the right noises but how he actually deals with the staff and players' pay situation will be crucial. If the bucket rattlers have to[ and they will] rev up their activities to ultimately benefit ex directors and other already well off/ paid individuals, it 'should' leave a bad taste in the mouth of all supporters.
Taken for mugs comes to mind but that will all be ignored with the, 'I loves my club I do' and ' right then, how much are you going to give ?'

None of us want Argyle to fail and there is the need to counter the compliant, happy clappy brigade. We tried to do the same when 'Trust in Stapes' was the watchword but were shouted down and in some cases banned for our views. Nobody has ever , nor ever will, be banned from here for not blindly following the party line. In fact, there is no party line. We disagree on many things. I was all for liquidation and a new club, Ricks for one, was not. We vagreed to disagree.
In Pasoti land, one of us would have had to go.
Enjoy posting on here and please inform admin if you feel threatened or bullied. The only people who cop stick on here are those with whom we have 'history', those who like to dish it out but can't take it back.
As for rivalling Pasoti, that is not the intention of this forum. The 'majority' of Pasoti users are not thinkers, they need leaders to fall in behind. Stapleton got away with murder because Pasoti was compliant. Ridsdale etc have done the same. Worryingly, why should hard nosed businessman Brent be any different ? As long as he tickles Webb and Newell occasionally there will be no dissent from the fans no matter what he does............ or doesn't do.