Is Fletcher our Ferguson?

When Sir Alex Ferguson took over at Old Trafford they had endured by their standards many years of decline and had been trophy less much longer than they would expect. Ferguson inherited a team and club barely fit for purpose and had to change everything to get them back to where they expect to be and it didn’t happen overnight. Fletcher has taken on a comparable job at Argyle but at a lower level. The last few years has seen us decline and our club also needs to be rebuilt from the ground up just like United did back then. When Ferguson started United suffered a couple of years of unacceptable failure and the tolerance of the Old Trafford faithful was stretched to the point where they were solidly anti-Ferguson, demos were frequent and Ferguson Out! banners were seen in the Stretford End. United stuck with him, Mark Robbins got a crucial late goal in a cuptie, they pulled through the sticky patch and won the cup. Now Manchester United are the biggest club in the world and Ferguson is acclaimed as the best manager British football has ever seen. James Brent’s continuing support for Fletcher is equally as solid as the support shown to Ferguson when he started so he has obviously seen something that he feels is worth persevering with despite our recent slump. Is our role is to put all logic to one side, swallow hard on the bitter disappointments because there will probably be more to come before things get better and wait for our equivalent of all the league, cup and European titles to come our way? And if it isn't just changing the manager rarely makes a significant long term difference anyway. So what else can we do other than support the team we have even if it is more crap than we would like it to be?

In a word...NO

I was very fortunate to be working in Aberdeen during their glory years. He recruited and developed good players into a magnificent team that smashed the Glasgow duopoly and went on to win the Cup Winners Cup beating Real Madrid in the final in Gothenburg. He was a very special talent that any football person would have been daft not to recognise. Fortunately the powers that were at Old Trafford knew it and did the right thing and have rightly reaped the rewards.

I find any attempt to compare Fletcher with Ferguson frankly ludicrous.

FLETCHER OUT...and a proper manager in...please.

Ferguson had a proven record of success at Aberdeen and his early years at Old Trafford were only a comparative struggle-they finished runners up a couple of times but finished mostly mid table-there was never any serious danger of relegation.Not really a valid comparison IMHO,i get the general gist of what you say but would point out that a change of manager can make a difference,certainly in the medium term.A couple of examples would be the removal of Hodges and Hore and their replacement with Sturrock and Smith,two moves which i'm sure you'll agree led to two of the more successful periods in Argyle's history.Supporters have certainly played their part at many clubs in the past by campaigning against poor management and directorship and i would say that should Argyle's results be less than satisfactory over the xmas/new year period,then most fans will not be prepared to swallow on many more bitter disappointments.And rightly so.

Ferguson had a high degree of pedigree after winning the Scottish League and European Cup winners Cup with unfashionable Aberdeen.

Whilst Clueless Carl has captained Argyle to two relegations, a 90th place finish as manager, and undoubtedly another season fighting to stay in the league.

Difficult to compare and contrast really.

the very fact you would insult alex ferguson with mentioning him in the same sentance would get dane's blood boiling lol

in a word NO fergie was a good manager before he went to man utd fletcher is simply shit fullstop.

If Feeney had scored a late winner in the JPT the comparison would be eerily similar. Not.

I can't stand Ferguson as a person from what you see if him publicly, but you have to admire his managerial skills. I don't think you will ever see a team that contained so much home grown talent again. Of course the youth system has to take an enormous amount of credit as well but he moulded the kids into a team of world beaters.

The Neville brothers, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Nicky Butt, David Beckham to name just some of the young talent all playing in the same side while Chelsea and the others were buying abroad for vast sums. And he isn't afraid to buy big if he thinks it will strengthen the side.

He knew Rooney was worth buying at such a young age, and saw how incredibly talented Cantona was when others were afraid of his reputation. Van Persie could have joined any club in the world and chose United who probably couldn't match city or Chelsea for wages.

He's not afraid to drop anyone if they're not performing or mouthing off. He wouldn't have put up with Torres matching Warren Feeney in the scoring stakes, and has shipped out Beckham and Jap Staam when he thought they were out of line. I still maintain that Beckham was a great player at United but has lived off of his reputation ever since. He's never matched those heights and has probably been bought for financial reasons ever since.

He talked Kevin Keegan out of the title with Newcastle. Made him buckle under the pressure.

Meanwhile Carl Fletcher decided to keep Chadwick and Feeney when he had the chance to strip Argyle down and rebuild.

Ferguson has made mistakes but not many over the years.

I see what SFD us getting at but it's like comparing the finest champagne with lambrini.

Fletcher will never be fit to lace Fergies boots. Not many will.

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

the very fact you would insult alex ferguson with mentioning him in the same sentance would get dane's blood boiling lol

in a word NO fergie was a good manager before he went to man utd fletcher is simply shit fullstop.

Can't argue with anything there!

with reguard to home talent, it has to be remembered that came about because of the 3 foreign player rule for euro cup ties so the english youth players got their chance & took it.

Of course he isn't.
I'm also a big believer in the natural rythm of things, fertile land and all that.
Manchester had been a club on the rocks for some time. While Ferguson is undoubtedly a very good manager, their success will have come from a whole range of inputs .... and sometimes something as simple as coincidence and confluence.... it happens in the world ... and Manchester were sooooo lucky to have that crop of kids when Ferguson was at a loss. Even to this day, he has not succeeded in prducing another crop like that bunch of Giggs, beckham, Scholes etc, and the club feels on borrowed time now with everything relying on the imported Rooney.
It's all about the club, the 'family' the ethic and identity, the desire. Sadly we're nowhere with these things at the moment. Fletcher is crap, the club is still crap, there's still bad vibes around... little of the poison has been dealt with, just hidden away on the back burner. Property is still king with people refusing to accept there is a 'family' problem. The owner is at best half hearted and already indicated his desire to sell at the first realistic opportunity leaving the club easy prey for superfans and misdirected and divided input. There has been no reckoning within the dressing room itself.... just slipping and sliding. Fletcher can't be the man to change things there .. it's impossible given his input over the last 3 or 4 years. I actually think we would be doing him a favour by giving him the elbow .. he needs to learn his trade somewhere fresh and new, and probably in non-league like most managers do... it was good enough for Warnock. Far too much favour for some strange reason we can all guess at..

Fletch is an ex-footballer who was in the right place at the right time and fortunate enough to be given a cushy role with a half decent salary (still way less than 'REAL' managers according to various reports).

Brent wouldn't know a good football manager, how could he when he knows nothing about the game nor anything that surrounds it. His only concern is shillings, pounds & pence.

There's currently nothing at the club to say there is any longterm plan, the Board just seem to be making things up as they go along. We're going for promotion, oh wait, we're consolidating. Our future is supposed to be a young entertaining team of footballers yet we're signing 32 year olds who have never played professional football whilst releasing younger players who are reportedly expected to have a bright future in the game. We don't have financial problems but we're transfer listing our captain for financial reasons. The team is obviously struggling so they think a manager might help but he wont be managing.

Fletch has played his part in much of the above and there's no reason to believe anything will improve while he continues playing at football manager. Hopefully the new secretary will be given some power to sack Fletch in the very near future and Sexstone will ring the much needed changes within the Boardroom (and surrounding pigs trough). Then we might just get back to being a 'REAL' football club with a 'REAL' manager turning the current shambles around.

Time will tell....

knecht wrote:

Time will tell....

It will, but there are some things you can confidently say won't happen like Scotland winning the world cup, Chadwick scoring a hattrick, freathy being optimistic about Argyle's chances of holding onto a lead and me making one motherfuckin post without swearing

Fletcher being like sir Alex Ferguson falls into that category.

It's all about being in the right place at the right time.

For example, if I had played my cards right I could have been a contender. But I didn't...... Bugger (there you go, even I can swear!)!!!

If Fergie had started at a bottom of the table club in the lowest division, the experience may have scarred him and his reputation for life and he would never have led the mighty Reds (spit) to the heights he has. In fact after his first half-season there were loud calls for him to be sacked at Manure. He wasn't and the rest is history.

Fletcher has managed to get his sow's ear to play some damned good football at times - almost a silk purse. Trouble is it has been more than balanced by the failures he's also presided over. Maybe wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let's hope that John Ward (or whoever ....) manages to give the support that's needed.

Fletch already gets support from his assistant manager whom was probably hoisted into the management team rather than chosen. If Fletch was really managerial material and Ro a capable assistant, they certainly wouldn't be needing a DoF after 15 months.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Fletch already gets support from his assistant manager whom was probably hoisted into the management team rather than chosen. If Fletch was really managerial material and Ro a capable assistant, they certainly wouldn't be needing a DoF after 15 months.

Yep. It's why I've never bought the inexperienced line. Eddie Howe was inexperienced but he showed a natural capability for the job, lept in, did excellently and didn't need a new mentor figure every 5 months (because that is what it's been on average). It's not so much that Fletcher is inexperienced, he just hasn't "got it".

[quote="Charlie Wood"]In a word...NO

I was very fortunate to be working in Aberdeen during their glory years. He recruited and developed good players into a magnificent team that smashed the Glasgow duopoly and went on to win the Cup Winners Cup beating Real Madrid in the final in Gothenburg. He was a very special talent that any football person would have been daft not to recognise. Fortunately the powers that were at Old Trafford knew it and did the right thing and have rightly reaped the rewards.

I find any attempt to compare Fletcher with Ferguson frankly ludicrous.

FLETCHER OUT...and a proper manager in...please.

Well said Sir......

Sir Alex = clueless? Nah. This will be clueless's last ever 'managerial' role in football. The bloke is rubbish. The only thing Sir Alex and clueless have in common is job security.

CLUELESS OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is Fletcher our Ferguson ? Yes, ............Sarah Ferguson, a gold digging hanger on !

I think Ferguson is a good manager with unrivalled longevity, but let's face it Man Utd should be in the top two every year even with Chelsea/City's money. I think 2 CL wins is actually quite a low return for them in over 20 years, when for ages their biggest rivals for the league title were clubs like Blackburn and Newcastle they should be winning titles frankly. If you look at how Wenger bettered him up til 2005 on far less resources, I'm not sure just how good he really is.

Having said that, Fletcher is a bumbling clueless idiot.

knecht wrote:

If Fergie had started at a bottom of the table club in the lowest division, the experience may have scarred him and his reputation for life and he would never have led the mighty Reds (spit) to the heights he has.

I think he did. He was at East Stirling performing in front of two men and a dog and St Mirren before moving to Aberdeen.

By contrast, Fletcher has started his managerial career way further up the ladder.

A club like ours - on its uppers, at its lowest ebb, is a golden opportunity for a decent manager to show their worth (Luggy) because our potential is so much higher than the clubs all around us.

It just makes it all the more bizarre that Brent persists with someone who patently ain't up to it.

Czarcasm wrote:

Ferguson had a high degree of pedigree after winning the Scottish League and European Cup winners Cup with unfashionable Aberdeen.

Whilst Clueless Carl has captained Argyle to two relegations, a 90th place finish as manager, and undoubtedly another season fighting to stay in the league.

Difficult to compare and contrast really.

So those facts equate quite well then.........we must be the luckiest club in the whole of the Football League to have acquired such a gem as Carl Fletcher......I shall now put my tin helmet on and duck below the parapets........of course if Carl's strikers start shooting the safest place is in between the posts,they will never hit me there.

Freathy wrote:

Sir Alex = clueless? Nah. This will be clueless's last ever 'managerial' role in football. The bloke is rubbish. The only thing Sir Alex and clueless have in common is job security.

CLUELESS OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are both probably enjoying their final job in football management too which is another possible similarity. I accept all the critical posts pointing out Flertcher's weaknesses, especially his lack of experience, and failings but almost exactly the same complaints could have been made by United fans against Ferguson when things were going so badly for him and United before it turned around. I still think that it is too early to judge Fletcher's ability. It is quite possible that he is doing incredibly well given the possible turmoil in the club's finances currently being hinted at and he has done much better than the vastly experienced Peter Reid did in not dissimilar circumstances. I know that Fletcher, me and everybody else wants us to be at the top of this league and we are not but why would an experienced and successful manager even consider managing us? It might be exactly what we need but we could do with a £30m striker too and we are not likely to get one of them either.

I guess it's a case of believing that Brent has handed Fletcher a decent budget and he's spunked it away on shit players or that Brents been telling porkies and our budget is on a par with the others in the bottom half of the league.

Personally I think he's had a half decent budget and due to his inexperience he stuck with players he knew even though they are not that great, even in league 2.

Also the size of our squad points to a pretty good budget in comparison with other teams in this league. The scattergun approach witnessed at the start of the season also seem to be indicative of him panicking and thinking if he threw enough arrows he was bound to get lucky eventually. How many wingers did we have on the books at one stage? And they were usually all sat on the bench.

Griffiths was a gamble, but one I thought worth taking. The only problem was he should've also ditched Chadwick and Feeney to free up wages for a proven goalscorer. Cureton was definitely available at one stage and he would've been the perfect foil for Griffiths.

Then we have his chopping and changing. Hand on heart can anyone say that they could predict our lineup every week? Players seem to come and go into and out of favour with him meaning a different starting XI from one game to the next.

His demeanor doesn't fill me with any confidence, nor does his ability to change tactics midway through a game. He's regularly out thought and takes far too long to recognise what his opposite number has done and how to counter it. Hence the regular periods of twenty minutes or so where we play well until the opposition manager susses out what to do to stop us. Fletcher seems slow in having a plan b to turn to then. His substitutions always appear to be ten minutes too late.

The Madjo situation is also puzzling. If it is for financial reasons that he hasn't played lately then say so. Don't let the fans think you're a complete fucktard when you play Feeney or Chadwick and we struggle for goals. If it's a disciplinary thing then either send him back or fine him, drop him and then when he's learned his lesson tell him he's your star striker but you won't put up with him being late for training or whatever it is. If it happens again send him back to Aldershot where he's not wanted either. If he begs for one more chance see if he bucks up in training and is worth bothering with.

This crap about not defending well makes Fletcher look like an idiot frankly.

I do think he's hampered by having a poor set of coaches as well. Larrieu was chosen along with Fletcher partly to save money and partly to quell any dissent in the changing room. If larrieu and Nancekivel are not contributing enough or are out of their depth Fletcher should have worked under enough decent coaches to recognise this and be man enough to say thanks but it's time to get more experience.

I get the impression that Fletcher's too stubborn to ask for help and would rather soldier on with what he's got.

There might be a good manager in there somewhere, but a spell as an assistant to an old pro manager or a coach under a good manager should have been his career path. It was tricky for Brent I suppose when he arrived but surely this great footballing man Ridsdale knew this and when money wasn't so tight, he should have recommended a manager who Fletcher could have worked with. If Fletcher wasn't prepared to do that he should have been thanked for his efforts and let go to gain experience elsewhere. I very much doubt we would be sat here regretting that today as he was managing a team topping a league. He would probably have got fit and gone somewhere as a player coach, not pulling up any trees on the pitch anymore.

I could well be wrong of course and he's the next Ferguson or Bob Paisley, but I don't think so. He's probably a nice guy and doesn't deserve the stick he gets but as Peter Reid found out, it's a results business.

He probably is not the next Paisley or Ferguson because most managers aren't but Madjo is a good case in point. He's played well and seems to be exactly what we need and yet he doesn't even get on the bench because he was late for training once and is not keen to get back for corners? It doesn't make sense but Fletch can hardly say we cant afford his appearance money without dropping Brent in it. Is Fletcher actually playing a poor hand as well as can be expected?