What's going on? (my look on problems at argyle)

So to summarise - most of the fanbase have little belief in Fletcher as a manager, Brent is'nt financing a promotion squad, the squad is average and we can look forward to another crap season.
I GO IN HOPE RATHER THAN POSITIVE EXPECTATION!

Iggy wrote:

All this crap about it will take 2 or 3 years to re-build is really starting to wear thin now, other clubs on a par size wise are already in leagues above us. Other clubs are going to come from lower leagues and overtake us and they aren't all owned by Saudi billionaires. We have a millionaire owner who is only concerned with the asset stripping of the club and adding to his pension fund, when we went for the safe and cheap option of signing Fletcher it was a nail in the already screwed down lid of Argyles cofffin. Without MacDonald, Hemmings and Tsoumou (who wasn't even that brilliant) we will be lucky to be as crap as we were last year. Where are the goals going to come from?

Iggy.....quick fire rebuilding is not always done on good foundations...and inevitably disappears as quickly as it came.

Argyles success of the first part of this century (up to 2006) was not what I would call that instant....a nucleus of players came through...learning year by year and with good players arriving to bolster their success each year.......we don't need reminding how things went pear shaped eventually. Finance was required whilst in the Champiuonship and we got it wrong and those successful players went in all directions.....some succeeded and some fell by the wayside...that is life.

When will people understand that James Brent never promised a spending spree....in fact he said the opposite...Financing the club would always be within it's budget for the position we find ourselves in....remembering that having come out of administration not long ago the powers that be would be watching how we go about things.

Iggy........Have you personally met and talked to James Brent....I have..... and your comment about asset stripping is so out of order that it is beyond belief...that is not Brent's style at all.

Bringing quality new players to this part of England does seem to be a problem.....quite often more for their families than the players......seems to be one stop short of America in their view......and nowhere near the bright lights.....and they are not the players we want to start with.

I am not a Fletcher fan....but paupers can't be choosy and he might just one day get something right.


Cobi your post was ok ....keep at it and don't let the knockers get you down......your opinion is just as valued as older fans such as I am.......60 years plus a fan......with some great memories and some terrible (and not just recently) memories as well.

I don't think Cobi has knockers on here (he gets teased sometimes but he deserves that ). His views are nearly always read respectfully and responded to.

I don't have a problems with organic growth and, to mix metaphors, building on firm foundations. BUT the lack of ambition shown so far and the VERY limited signings are not what was expected or, I believe, NOT what was implied by Mr Brent.

The old line of we're too far out from civilisation to attract people is, in my view, a nonsense inasmuch as there are many clubs equally far out and in less salubrious surroundings. For every person who wants the bright lights there is another one who chooses scenery and peace and quiet.

And, yes, ZYPH, I have met and spoken with him and until he directly answers the question I have put to him on two occasions - "Do you anticipate making more money from Argyle than you are going to put in." - I will have my doubts.

I think the jury is still out on Mr Brent's tenure (as it is on Fletcher's) but it won't be long before people will be pushing for a verdict.

I thought I directed my comments to Iggy......but never mind your thoughts knecht are your opinion and just as valued.

ZYPH wrote:

I thought I directed my comments to Iggy......but never mind your thoughts knecht are your opinion and just as valued.

Why thank you, kind sir.

ZYPH wrote:

Iggy wrote:

All this crap about it will take 2 or 3 years to re-build is really starting to wear thin now, other clubs on a par size wise are already in leagues above us. Other clubs are going to come from lower leagues and overtake us and they aren't all owned by Saudi billionaires. We have a millionaire owner who is only concerned with the asset stripping of the club and adding to his pension fund, when we went for the safe and cheap option of signing Fletcher it was a nail in the already screwed down lid of Argyles cofffin. Without MacDonald, Hemmings and Tsoumou (who wasn't even that brilliant) we will be lucky to be as crap as we were last year. Where are the goals going to come from?

Iggy.....quick fire rebuilding is not always done on good foundations...and inevitably disappears as quickly as it came.

Argyles success of the first part of this century (up to 2006) was not what I would call that instant....a nucleus of players came through...learning year by year and with good players arriving to bolster their success each year.......we don't need reminding how things went pear shaped eventually. Finance was required whilst in the Champiuonship and we got it wrong and those successful players went in all directions.....some succeeded and some fell by the wayside...that is life.

When will people understand that James Brent never promised a spending spree....in fact he said the opposite...Financing the club would always be within it's budget for the position we find ourselves in....remembering that having come out of administration not long ago the powers that be would be watching how we go about things.

Iggy........Have you personally met and talked to James Brent....I have..... and your comment about asset stripping is so out of order that it is beyond belief...that is not Brent's style at all.

Bringing quality new players to this part of England does seem to be a problem.....quite often more for their families than the players......seems to be one stop short of America in their view......and nowhere near the bright lights.....and they are not the players we want to start with.

I am not a Fletcher fan....but paupers can't be choosy and he might just one day get something right.


Cobi your post was ok ....keep at it and don't let the knockers get you down......your opinion is just as valued as older fans such as I am.......60 years plus a fan......with some great memories and some terrible (and not just recently) memories as well.

So you have been won over by a smooth talking businessman, don't worry you aren't the first to be duped by him and you wont be the last. As for asset stripping, Bwenty has sold the ground to the council for £1.6m kerching, he then used about 700k of that to buy the car park off us, kerching again! So now where are the assets that we owned about 12 month's ago? All we own is the shirts a couple of lawnmowers and Bwenty's pension portfolio is worth a good bit more than it used to be. When it was disclosed that Heaney (who I do realise is a wanker) was going to develop HP for profit my god, release the dogs of war! However Bwenty wocks up and all of a sudden we are being told to look into his eyes and believe what he says, well mate listen to me, Bwent is good for Bwent his legacy will be one of mediocre football if we are lucky enough to stay in this league. He isn't bothered about the football he is a business man, wakey wakey time.

knecht wrote:

I don't think Cobi has knockers on here (he gets teased sometimes but he deserves that ). His views are nearly always read respectfully and responded to.

I don't have a problems with organic growth and, to mix metaphors, building on firm foundations. BUT the lack of ambition shown so far and the VERY limited signings are not what was expected or, I believe, NOT what was implied by Mr Brent.

The old line of we're too far out from civilisation to attract people is, in my view, a nonsense inasmuch as there are many clubs equally far out and in less salubrious surroundings. For every person who wants the bright lights there is another one who chooses scenery and peace and quiet.

And, yes, ZYPH, I have met and spoken with him and until he directly answers the question I have put to him on two occasions - "Do you anticipate making more money from Argyle than you are going to put in." - I will have my doubts.

I think the jury is still out on Mr Brent's tenure (as it is on Fletcher's) but it won't be long before people will be pushing for a verdict.

I'm fairly sure somebody would have noticed if he had. I have a fine pair of man boobs but Cobi in all the photo's I've seen looks pretty normal at the moment.

When Luggy became manager at Southend, he inherited a squad of around 9 players, none of which had been paid for some time and around half were young professionals and the club itself was facing extinction and under a transfer embargo. Fast forward 12 months and he had built a squad which occupied one of the automatic promotion spots for much of last season, only just falling short in the last week or so of the season.

The only reason PAFC wont be challenging the top 7 this season will be down to piss poor management from the top down. Nothing to do with geography as the Greeks and Turks aren't having this problem. There's no logical reason for finances coming into play either, I doubt the ECFC fans trust are pumping in huge amounts yet they seem to be signing players with league experience. If Brent isn't spending what is available then obviously that's a different matter.

Nobody's expecting Brent to spend £millions, it isn't necessary. There should however be enough money available to build a core squad of around 18 capable players (with actual league experience) and a handful of youngsters whom are genuinely challenging for 1st team football. We seem a long way away from this right now.

ZYPH wrote:

Iggy wrote:

All this crap about it will take 2 or 3 years to re-build is really starting to wear thin now, other clubs on a par size wise are already in leagues above us. Other clubs are going to come from lower leagues and overtake us and they aren't all owned by Saudi billionaires. We have a millionaire owner who is only concerned with the asset stripping of the club and adding to his pension fund, when we went for the safe and cheap option of signing Fletcher it was a nail in the already screwed down lid of Argyles cofffin. Without MacDonald, Hemmings and Tsoumou (who wasn't even that brilliant) we will be lucky to be as crap as we were last year. Where are the goals going to come from?

Iggy.....quick fire rebuilding is not always done on good foundations...and inevitably disappears as quickly as it came.

Argyles success of the first part of this century (up to 2006) was not what I would call that instant....a nucleus of players came through...learning year by year and with good players arriving to bolster their success each year.......we don't need reminding how things went pear shaped eventually. Finance was required whilst in the Champiuonship and we got it wrong and those successful players went in all directions.....some succeeded and some fell by the wayside...that is life.

When will people understand that James Brent never promised a spending spree....in fact he said the opposite...Financing the club would always be within it's budget for the position we find ourselves in....remembering that having come out of administration not long ago the powers that be would be watching how we go about things.

Iggy........Have you personally met and talked to James Brent....I have..... and your comment about asset stripping is so out of order that it is beyond belief...that is not Brent's style at all.

Bringing quality new players to this part of England does seem to be a problem.....quite often more for their families than the players......seems to be one stop short of America in their view......and nowhere near the bright lights.....and they are not the players we want to start with.

I am not a Fletcher fan....but paupers can't be choosy and he might just one day get something right.


Cobi your post was ok ....keep at it and don't let the knockers get you down......your opinion is just as valued as older fans such as I am.......60 years plus a fan......with some great memories and some terrible (and not just recently) memories as well.

FFS,it's time to start using the "can't attract players to the westcountry" excuse.Complete and utter bollocks,people like Warnock,Waiters,Shilton,Holloway,Smith,Sturrock etc had no problems in bringing players of the right quality down here,as can be seen by our record of two promotions from the fourth division and five from the third division,not to mention three championships thrown in,as well as nearly half of our history being spent in the second tier.There are two criteria which need to be met, and which in the past have been met,for Argyle to succeed in the lower divisions;

a.Adequate funding supplied from the top of the club,which was the case last time via Nik Warren's wallet

b.A manager with the ability to persuade players that Argyle are a good proposition both in terms of wages and playing prospects-see the list of managerial names above

With the basic gates that Argyle will attract in this division [fourth best last season,in spite of dire results and performances],there should not be a problem in adequately funding at least a competent,capable of challenging for the play offs, squad in this division.If that is not the case,then there has to be something wrong either with the alleged competitive budget provided by Mr Brent or the persuasive powers of the manager.I doubt if it is the latter,as Fletcher managed to attract Wotton,Purse,Blanchard,Hemmings,McDonald etc last season.If Mr Brent is not providing adequate funding,then questions need to be asked.We have lost two major earners in Walton and Johnson during the close season-surely that alone should be giving some leeway to bring in some better players? It is simply not the case that Mr Brent has said that we must live solely within our means-its an urban myth,maintained by those still snowblinded by the Stapes "pound in,pound in" schlock.See my signature for what Mr Brent has actually said amongst other things-its time for the walk to be walked,otherwise serious doubts will be creeping into some minds.

Warnock,Waiters,Shilton,Holloway,Smith and Sturrock never did it after administration did they, so get real please.

Fletcher is the manager at present.....he seemed happy with the budget,so be patient and hope he can do the job that he has been given.

Not to mention that Torquay, Yeovil and Exeter have all managed to tempt Goal scorers down to the west.

ZYPH wrote:

Warnock,Waiters,Shilton,Holloway,Smith and Sturrock never did it after administration did they, so get real please.

Fletcher is the manager at present.....he seemed happy with the budget,so be patient and hope he can do the job that he has been given.

What the hell has administration got to do with anything? You said in your previous post;

"Bringing quality new players to this part of England does seem to be a problem.....quite often more for their families than the players......"

I pointed out that previous regimes and managers had found no such problem,especially at this level.Just expand on your point if you've anything more to say that is intelligent and not remotely fatalistic and please don't come out with any of the patronising "please be patient" shite.

Greenskin wrote:

ZYPH wrote:

Warnock,Waiters,Shilton,Holloway,Smith and Sturrock never did it after administration did they, so get real please.

Fletcher is the manager at present.....he seemed happy with the budget,so be patient and hope he can do the job that he has been given.

What the hell has administration got to do with anything? You said in your previous post;

"Bringing quality new players to this part of England does seem to be a problem.....quite often more for their families than the players......"

I pointed out that previous regimes and managers had found no such problem,especially at this level.Just expand on your point if you've anything more to say that is intelligent and not remotely fatalistic and please don't come out with any of the patronising "please be patient" shite.

Yep! With a decent manager (like Ollie) and a chairman with even very modest cash backed ambition getting players to this part of the country would suddenly be far less problematic. However, as it is with carl the clueless and the hotel building speccy banker who makes *****wallet look like a reckless spendthrift it's no wonder we can't attract anyone.

Brent thinks he's still watching rugby when he's at homepark,which to be fair is understandable.

ZYPH wrote:

Warnock,Waiters,Shilton,Holloway,Smith and Sturrock never did it after administration did they, so get real please.

Fletcher is the manager at present.....he seemed happy with the budget,so be patient and hope he can do the job that he has been given.

That's the point though isn't it? Argyle are not in Administration. Coming out of Administration wipes the slate clean, PAFC have as much money to spend on the playing staff as any other club in the division--55% of turnover

Iggy wrote:

ZYPH wrote:

Iggy wrote:

All this crap about it will take 2 or 3 years to re-build is really starting to wear thin now, other clubs on a par size wise are already in leagues above us. Other clubs are going to come from lower leagues and overtake us and they aren't all owned by Saudi billionaires. We have a millionaire owner who is only concerned with the asset stripping of the club and adding to his pension fund, when we went for the safe and cheap option of signing Fletcher it was a nail in the already screwed down lid of Argyles cofffin. Without MacDonald, Hemmings and Tsoumou (who wasn't even that brilliant) we will be lucky to be as crap as we were last year. Where are the goals going to come from?

Iggy.....quick fire rebuilding is not always done on good foundations...and inevitably disappears as quickly as it came.

Argyles success of the first part of this century (up to 2006) was not what I would call that instant....a nucleus of players came through...learning year by year and with good players arriving to bolster their success each year.......we don't need reminding how things went pear shaped eventually. Finance was required whilst in the Champiuonship and we got it wrong and those successful players went in all directions.....some succeeded and some fell by the wayside...that is life.

When will people understand that James Brent never promised a spending spree....in fact he said the opposite...Financing the club would always be within it's budget for the position we find ourselves in....remembering that having come out of administration not long ago the powers that be would be watching how we go about things.

Iggy........Have you personally met and talked to James Brent....I have..... and your comment about asset stripping is so out of order that it is beyond belief...that is not Brent's style at all.

Bringing quality new players to this part of England does seem to be a problem.....quite often more for their families than the players......seems to be one stop short of America in their view......and nowhere near the bright lights.....and they are not the players we want to start with.

I am not a Fletcher fan....but paupers can't be choosy and he might just one day get something right.


Cobi your post was ok ....keep at it and don't let the knockers get you down......your opinion is just as valued as older fans such as I am.......60 years plus a fan......with some great memories and some terrible (and not just recently) memories as well.

So you have been won over by a smooth talking businessman, don't worry you aren't the first to be duped by him and you wont be the last. As for asset stripping, Bwenty has sold the ground to the council for £1.6m kerching, he then used about 700k of that to buy the car park off us, kerching again! So now where are the assets that we owned about 12 month's ago? All we own is the shirts a couple of lawnmowers and Bwenty's pension portfolio is worth a good bit more than it used to be. When it was disclosed that Heaney (who I do realise is a wanker) was going to develop HP for profit my god, release the dogs of war! However Bwenty wocks up and all of a sudden we are being told to look into his eyes and believe what he says, well mate listen to me, Bwent is good for Bwent his legacy will be one of mediocre football if we are lucky enough to stay in this league. He isn't bothered about the football he is a business man, wakey wakey time.

£2.000.000 from the Council toward his Home Park Pension fund (ice rink) and given the lease hold of the the Pavilion and surround land for free.

Iggy........Have you personally met and talked to James Brent....I have..... and your comment about asset stripping is so out of order that it is beyond belief...that is not Brent's style at all.




Another one who's looked into his eyes!

Rather than looked at the evidence.


FFS who owns Argyle? Brent or Paul McKenna?

Well you pasoti rejects certainly have chips on your shoulders......no owner or manager would be good enough for you lot....that's obvious.

Trusting your own shadows must be difficult for some of you.....having no interest in pasoti myself but to follow any news that might be worth knowing means that I can take them or leave them.

Obviously James Brent is too good to be true so he has got to be on the make hasn't he.....how sad to live your lives like that.

ZYPH wrote:

Well you pasoti rejects certainly have chips on your shoulders......no owner or manager would be good enough for you lot....that's obvious.

Trusting your own shadows must be difficult for some of you.....having no interest in pasoti myself but to follow any news that might be worth knowing means that I can take them or leave them.

Obviously James Brent is too good to be true so he has got to be on the make hasn't he.....how sad to live your lives like that.

So it is unquestioning blind faith we must have! You heard the man! Ignore the evidence and worship the banker!

I think deeds speak louder than words. I want to trust Brent but am having some difficulty with this. I don't totally distrust him like some on here especially do. I have respect for the fact the man is a successful businessman for one. My difficulty is that he has without doubt raised expectations with his words which don't appear to be bearing fruit on the ground. Other clubs do seem to be bringing in players of a better calibre than we have managed. No proof yet they will be more successful on the pitch and no proof ours will be useless either but it isn't lifting the gloom of the last few years and doing much to ensure the semi faithful will keep coming. Perception is everything if you want to keep or obtain people's interest. Only a great start to the season will quell fears and on the face of it that doesn't look much like happening. I hope I'm wrong.

I have never expected Brent to bung the club a big wedge and he has talked about self sufficiency. What I didn't expect was no investment or obvious investment at all. We are not in a position to be that self sufficient yet given the ground and associated parts are not in place to generate income. There is only so far you can go in talking something up before it wears thin and people stop listening. My guess is that before the next season is out there will be many more questioning Brent and his motives and the "he saved my club" thing will be history. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

Last season Argyle got crowds that were among the best (top six) in the Division.

That is hard cash that has been received through the turnstyles, not future income, loans or promises. Not money given or lent by a benefactor.Cash that has gone into the Club's bank account.

Yet Argyle are struggling to sign players of a suitable standard and are begging supporters to do basic office tasks.

Do you think that the 20 or so clubs who are worse off than Argyle are doing the same?

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I think deeds speak louder than words. I want to trust Brent but am having some difficulty with this. I don't totally distrust him like some on here especially do. I have respect for the fact the man is a successful businessman for one. My difficulty is that he has without doubt raised expectations with his words which don't appear to be bearing fruit on the ground. Other clubs do seem to be bringing in players of a better calibre than we have managed. No proof yet they will be more successful on the pitch and no proof ours will be useless either but it isn't lifting the gloom of the last few years and doing much to ensure the semi faithful will keep coming. Perception is everything if you want to keep or obtain people's interest. Only a great start to the season will quell fears and on the face of it that doesn't look much like happening. I hope I'm wrong.

I have never expected Brent to bung the club a big wedge and he has talked about self sufficiency. What I didn't expect was no investment or obvious investment at all. We are not in a position to be that self sufficient yet given the ground and associated parts are not in place to generate income. There is only so far you can go in talking something up before it wears thin and people stop listening. My guess is that before the next season is out there will be many more questioning Brent and his motives and the "he saved my club" thing will be history. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

Indeed Sensible, couldn't agree more.

Didn't we pay anyone then Grovehill? Are you suggesting there is a pot of cash that wasn't spent last season and the club or owner has it in a bank account for this season or themselves?

I think you have to judge this season on projected income rather than realised income which should be better than at least half the opposition clubs in any event. I don't believe income wasn't spent last season given one or two earners we had on the books especially.

I'm not suggesting anything. I am pointing out the fact that PAFC are among the best supported clubs in the division, any debts from more than 12 months ago were either written off or accepted by the owner and that Argyle's income -any therefore money available to spend- compares very favourably with all but a very few clubs in the division.

The owner is telling all and sundry that the club has sold 4000 "memberships" yet he's also saying they can't afford a couple of admin staff to stuff envelopes, and we are aspiring to sign 32 year old firemen who've never played full time football?

Even Ken Dodd's accountant can see that something doesn't add up!

You were talking about last season's crowds and money that had gone into the clubs bank account which sounded like you thought there was money left from somewhere hence the question.

On the face of it you are right in that we should be able to compete wages wise with most if not all. Some people are happy to give up their time for what they see as a cause so I can't actually see why people are knocking the volunteers as nobody has forced anyone into labour they are not happy to do. Stuffing a few thousand envelopes is hardly going to save enough to buy the squad some decent boots let alone add to our financial clout. I don't think Brent is desperate to save a few hundred quid.