The pasotification of ATD

Various people have commented on the the alleged pasotification of ATD. I'm not really sure what that means but I think the postings on the "GreenAndy1981 has been a bad boy" thread last night are an indication of what I think is an example of it.

I don't always agree with sensible's posts. In fact I challenged him about it the other day. He seemed to spend as much time looking for people with whom he disagrees as offering anything himself. He disagreed with me. That's fine. I can live with that and I'm sure so can he.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? ..... Not quite! It seems there is a party line you are not allowed to step over.

It seems that it is ok to chuck abuse at someone simply if his views stand out from the norm. Amongst many complaints about pasoti is the allegation that you have to toe the party line or else the gang turns up to ridicule and marginalise you. I think that happened last night with sensible. I got in last night and found an internet bar-room fight going on with intimidation taking place.

I had someone saying to me the other day that he thought ATD was beginning to show signs of being like pasoti. He referred to the factions developing and the petty bickering. This is someone who has very rarely posted on pasoti and, I don't think, has actually posted on here yet though he is signed up. I think that view needs consideration. I think as this site has grown that was an inevitability. But what isn't an inevitability is the "bullying" that has been a feature of pasoti transferring to here.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? I hope so. I also hope it doesn't become pasoti mark 2.

That's what makes this place so different from the farm we can all express our own opinions .but what went on last night was not nice to see .

If you want a classic case of bullying then it was there for all to witness and has been propagated for a little while now.

I believe the 'better' people that use ATD still greatly outnumber the prats, but I agree with the person that said to Knecht that ATD is becoming a Pasoti Mk2, it's been noticeable for sometime with the only difference being that it's from the other extreme.

knecht wrote:

Various people have commented on the the alleged pasotification of ATD. I'm not really sure what that means but I think the postings on the "GreenAndy1981 has been a bad boy" thread last night are an indication of what I think is an example of it.

I don't always agree with sensible's posts. In fact I challenged him about it the other day. He seemed to spend as much time looking for people with whom he disagrees as offering anything himself. He disagreed with me. That's fine. I can live with that and I'm sure so can he.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? ..... Not quite! It seems there is a party line you are not allowed to step over.

It seems that it is ok to chuck abuse at someone simply if his views stand out from the norm. Amongst many complaints about pasoti is the allegation that you have to toe the party line or else the gang turns up to ridicule and marginalise you. I think that happened last night with sensible. I got in last night and found an internet bar-room fight going on with intimidation taking place.

I had someone saying to me the other day that he thought ATD was beginning to show signs of being like pasoti. He referred to the factions developing and the petty bickering. This is someone who has very rarely posted on pasoti and, I don't think, has actually posted on here yet though he is signed up. I think that view needs consideration. I think as this site has grown that was an inevitability. But what isn't an inevitability is the "bullying" that has been a feature of pasoti transferring to here.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? I hope so. I also hope it doesn't become pasoti mark 2.

On the other hand, ATD has traditionally been home to those who don't toe the Pasoti line. So when people start criticising said anti pasoti posters, they can expect a fair amount of flack, as far as the current membership stands.The essential difference is that posts are not deleted/altered and nobody gets banned. The admin of the forum is not controlled by one side of the divide.Thank god.
Personally, I have been accused of being a bully and Newellesque and similarly ganged up upon on these boards and in the modroom. The difference is I don't whine about it. I fight my corner. If you dish it out you have to be man [or woman] enough, to take it back without screaming bully !

Maybe an 'ignore' facility would help but I get the feeling, through my own experience, that some would silence my opinions if they could, whereas I am happy to argue or ignore.
Perhaps Sensiblegreeny and his 'gang' should avoid criticising the opinions of others, if they can't handle being criticised themselves ?

lawnmowerman wrote:

That's what makes this place so different from the farm we can all express our own opinions .but what went on last night was not nice to see .

It was no different to what others have done from the other side of the argument.

If admin starts taking sides or tries to over moderate, they'll be very busy and will soon disappear up their own backsides as to what is and what is not allowed.

Unless comments break the obvious rules of decency etc. it would be foolhardy to interfere.

I see that Cerbs' shares that view in Tumbleweed City. http://www.argyletalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21&start=30

I don't think Knecht is thinking in terms of moderation, rather that all posters reflect and consider the way spats develop and continue.

Tringreen wrote:

knecht wrote:

Various people have commented on the the alleged pasotification of ATD. I'm not really sure what that means but I think the postings on the "GreenAndy1981 has been a bad boy" thread last night are an indication of what I think is an example of it.

I don't always agree with sensible's posts. In fact I challenged him about it the other day. He seemed to spend as much time looking for people with whom he disagrees as offering anything himself. He disagreed with me. That's fine. I can live with that and I'm sure so can he.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? ..... Not quite! It seems there is a party line you are not allowed to step over.

It seems that it is ok to chuck abuse at someone simply if his views stand out from the norm. Amongst many complaints about pasoti is the allegation that you have to toe the party line or else the gang turns up to ridicule and marginalise you. I think that happened last night with sensible. I got in last night and found an internet bar-room fight going on with intimidation taking place.

I had someone saying to me the other day that he thought ATD was beginning to show signs of being like pasoti. He referred to the factions developing and the petty bickering. This is someone who has very rarely posted on pasoti and, I don't think, has actually posted on here yet though he is signed up. I think that view needs consideration. I think as this site has grown that was an inevitability. But what isn't an inevitability is the "bullying" that has been a feature of pasoti transferring to here.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? I hope so. I also hope it doesn't become pasoti mark 2.

On the other hand, ATD has traditionally been home to those who don't toe the Pasoti line. So when people start criticising said anti pasoti posters, they can expect a fair amount of flack, as far as the current membership stands.The essential difference is that posts are not deleted/altered and nobody gets banned. The admin of the forum is not controlled by one side of the divide.Thank god.
Personally, I have been accused of being a bully and Newellesque and similarly ganged up upon on these boards and in the modroom. The difference is I don't whine about it. I fight my corner. If you dish it out you have to be man [or woman] enough, to take it back without screaming bully !

Maybe an 'ignore' facility would help but I get the feeling, through my own experience, that some would silence my opinions if they could, whereas I am happy to argue or ignore.
Perhaps Sensiblegreeny and his 'gang' should avoid criticising the opinions of others, if they can't handle being criticised themselves ?

With reference to the bold - No it hasn't, it wasn't designed or intended for that, that's just your own perception of what you personally would like ATD to be. ATD was designed to provide an equal voice for all those that want it, I know because I created it, simple as.

I see. GOB and I are prime examples I suppose.

The difference is Charlie, that only one side of the divide is squealing for admin to step in.

As I said, I'm happy to argue or hit an ignore button.

If SG or anyone else, feels the need to criticise others for Pasoti bashing etc., he must expect similar in return............. without whining.

He could always go and join Merv in the village with three corners if he can't stand the heat. Take that away from ATD and we really would be Pasoti mk 2.

GOB wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

knecht wrote:

Various people have commented on the the alleged pasotification of ATD. I'm not really sure what that means but I think the postings on the "GreenAndy1981 has been a bad boy" thread last night are an indication of what I think is an example of it.

I don't always agree with sensible's posts. In fact I challenged him about it the other day. He seemed to spend as much time looking for people with whom he disagrees as offering anything himself. He disagreed with me. That's fine. I can live with that and I'm sure so can he.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? ..... Not quite! It seems there is a party line you are not allowed to step over.

It seems that it is ok to chuck abuse at someone simply if his views stand out from the norm. Amongst many complaints about pasoti is the allegation that you have to toe the party line or else the gang turns up to ridicule and marginalise you. I think that happened last night with sensible. I got in last night and found an internet bar-room fight going on with intimidation taking place.

I had someone saying to me the other day that he thought ATD was beginning to show signs of being like pasoti. He referred to the factions developing and the petty bickering. This is someone who has very rarely posted on pasoti and, I don't think, has actually posted on here yet though he is signed up. I think that view needs consideration. I think as this site has grown that was an inevitability. But what isn't an inevitability is the "bullying" that has been a feature of pasoti transferring to here.

ATD is home of free speech where all views are accepted? I hope so. I also hope it doesn't become pasoti mark 2.

On the other hand, ATD has traditionally been home to those who don't toe the Pasoti line. So when people start criticising said anti pasoti posters, they can expect a fair amount of flack, as far as the current membership stands.The essential difference is that posts are not deleted/altered and nobody gets banned. The admin of the forum is not controlled by one side of the divide.Thank god.
Personally, I have been accused of being a bully and Newellesque and similarly ganged up upon on these boards and in the modroom. The difference is I don't whine about it. I fight my corner. If you dish it out you have to be man [or woman] enough, to take it back without screaming bully !

Maybe an 'ignore' facility would help but I get the feeling, through my own experience, that some would silence my opinions if they could, whereas I am happy to argue or ignore.
Perhaps Sensiblegreeny and his 'gang' should avoid criticising the opinions of others, if they can't handle being criticised themselves ?

With reference to the bold - No it hasn't, it wasn't designed or intended for that, that's just your own perception of what you personally would like ATD to be. ATD was designed to provide an equal voice for all those that want it, I know because I created it, simple as.

You created it for the old AT to migrate to and as I was the supposed named owner of AT at the end, you and I made the decision to go together.
I really don't see what you're on about .
The admin of this forum is impartial and not in any camp. Nobody is banned permanently unless they have crossed legal lines.

I think there was a phase where this place threatened to go down the Pasoti route mainly in the post election era when the defeated Cerbs/his fellow cronies and Pasoti moles were throwing their teddies around/making accusations left right and centre like schoolchildren because he lost the election.Thankfully the moderating team held fast (mainly) and Cerbs never succeeded in making us more in line with his masters website, thus forced to set up his own one.....which oddly enough is advertised on Pasoti, which proves all along that he was a Pasoti mole.
ATD .....a small island of sanity in a sea of Avivas.....long may it continue!!!

Tringreen wrote:

I see. GOB and I are prime examples I suppose.

The difference is Charlie, that only one side of the divide is squealing for admin to step in.

As I said, I'm happy to argue or hit an ignore button.

If SG or anyone else, feels the need to criticise others for Pasoti bashing etc., he must expect similar in return............. without whining.

He could always go and join Merv in the village with three corners if he can't stand the heat. Take that away from ATD and we really would be Pasoti mk 2.

I don't see anyone squealing for admin to step in (certainly not SG). I just think calling people fukwits or boring bloke all the time doesn't exactly make for a decent level of debate. I'd like to think that posters on this site were better than that.

I created it for the old AT to migrate to if they wished and as you'll remember, the site at the time had a slogan that welcomed all, no matter what their view. I don't ever remember a slogan saying that ATD would be anti pasoti.

GOB wrote:

I created it for the old AT to migrate to if they wished and as you'll remember, the site at the time had a slogan that welcomed all, no matter what their view. I don't ever remember a slogan saying that ATD would be anti pasoti.

But it was and by the amount of criticism you still level at Pasoti and its unelected control group, you still feel the same.

Tringreen wrote:

GOB wrote:

I created it for the old AT to migrate to if they wished and as you'll remember, the site at the time had a slogan that welcomed all, no matter what their view. I don't ever remember a slogan saying that ATD would be anti pasoti.

But it was and by the amount of criticism you still level at Pasoti and its unelected control group, you still feel the same.

I feel exactly the same Tring, I'm still very anti the same idiots. All I am saying is that's my own personal view that happens to align to your view, it's not ATD policy or agenda and never has been.

I certainly don't see this site as "anti-pasoti". That would be tedious and see me heading for the door. I learnt very early on that the holding of pasoti to account to what it was doing ought to be part of the brief. But if we keep harking on about historical injustices that would be juvenile and a waste of time. As this site grows - which it is doing - then its role of acting as the vociferous conscience of the main Argyle supporters' site of pasoti ought to diminish.

My intention was not to raise issues of moderation.

My intention was to record my discomfort with the treatment of one of our members last night. It was so pasoti that I couldn't shut up about it!

As for Punchdrunk's tediously repeated accusation about pasoti moles and cronies, I despair.

The only brief on ATD is that there's no brief Knecht.

Apart from that I agree.

At least on here we can talk about things like briefs without being accused of going off topic.

So far

Isn't it all about knowing where the line is that most people with an ounce of education, manners and common decency know not to cross?

Firstly I will categorically state that I made no complaint to anyone about the posts last night. I sent a PM to knecht asking him to delete my registration as I felt it was not worthwhile continuing on here. I did not say why and the PM was quite short. knecht I have changed my mind so please don't delete it. I'm not saying this for any sympathy just stating as it is.

Regarding this site. I was not aware when joining that ATD was here as a watchdog over everything pasoti did or the people on it. It was sold to me as an Argyle discussion site where you could post your views, whatever they were, without any restriction or fear of banning. However since being on here I find that almost every thread becomes in the end pasoti based. I was not around during the war years as many others weren't so have no history with pasoti or the people who run it. Frankly the turning of every subject into a continuation of that war is boring for a number of people. It seems if you comment on this as I have then somehow you get branded and invited to join pasoti rather than be on here. In other words put up with it or pee off. How pasoti is that? You decide.

Subjects on this board. I had always thought that discussion was somebody putting their point of view and somebody else responding with their's. A point of view is then batted back and forward to emphasise an opinion or add points to it. Not so it seems. You get to put your opinion it's true but if you follow up with further argument this gets dismissed as boring. Two posts seem to be the limit of discussion after which people can't be bothered to continue. That to me isn't discussion it is making a statement. I got branded as boring and this seemed to be taken up by a few who just said "boring" at any contribution. Hence the statement to knecht that I felt it not worthwhile continuing. Nothing to do with anything else. This is either a discussion board or it isn't. You decide.

Finally the personal abuse part. I do not appreciate comments like the one sufferedsince68 made regarding my mother. I said so at the time. People have no idea about the personal circumstances of others when they make this sort of comment and should think before posting them. They are crass and unnecessary. In context I posted some personal details regarding my mother's illness on another site. A friendly site I should add and the post was in context of the subject at that time. A troll who used to sign in to that site simply to cause trouble picked up on this and the comments I got from him such as "how's the coffin dodger doing" and "is she dead yet" were common for months. No doubt he thought he was really funny. In my shoes he wouldn't have.

I don't go along with ignore buttons particularly so my undertaking is that I will ignore posts in the future regarding pasoti and the personnel on there and stick to the subject. Sorry to disappoint but I will probably still persue a point of view and be annoying. That way I should avoid falling foul of the waring factions at least.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Firstly I will categorically state that I made no complaint to anyone about the posts last night. I sent a PM to knecht asking him to delete my registration as I felt it was not worthwhile continuing on here. I did not say why and the PM was quite short. knecht I have changed my mind so please don't delete it. I'm not saying this for any sympathy just stating as it is.

Regarding this site. I was not aware when joining that ATD was here as a watchdog over everything pasoti did or the people on it. It was sold to me as an Argyle discussion site where you could post your views, whatever they were, without any restriction or fear of banning. However since being on here I find that almost every thread becomes in the end pasoti based. I was not around during the war years as many others weren't so have no history with pasoti or the people who run it. Frankly the turning of every subject into a continuation of that war is boring for a number of people. It seems if you comment on this as I have then somehow you get branded and invited to join pasoti rather than be on here. In other words put up with it or pee off. How pasoti is that? You decide.

Subjects on this board. I had always thought that discussion was somebody putting their point of view and somebody else responding with their's. A point of view is then batted back and forward to emphasise an opinion or add points to it. Not so it seems. You get to put your opinion it's true but if you follow up with further argument this gets dismissed as boring. Two posts seem to be the limit of discussion after which people can't be bothered to continue. That to me isn't discussion it is making a statement. I got branded as boring and this seemed to be taken up by a few who just said "boring" at any contribution. Hence the statement to knecht that I felt it not worthwhile continuing. Nothing to do with anything else. This is either a discussion board or it isn't. You decide.

Finally the personal abuse part. I do not appreciate comments like the one sufferedsince68 made regarding my mother. I said so at the time. People have no idea about the personal circumstances of others when they make this sort of comment and should think before posting them. They are crass and unnecessary. In context I posted some personal details regarding my mother's illness on another site. A friendly site I should add and the post was in context of the subject at that time. A troll who used to sign in to that site simply to cause trouble picked up on this and the comments I got from him such as "how's the coffin dodger doing" and "is she dead yet" were common for months. No doubt he thought he was really funny. In my shoes he wouldn't have.

I don't go along with ignore buttons particularly so my undertaking is that I will ignore posts in the future regarding pasoti and the personnel on there and stick to the subject. Sorry to disappoint but I will probably still persue a point of view and be annoying. That way I should avoid falling foul of the waring factions at least.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Firstly I will categorically state that I made no complaint to anyone about the posts last night. I sent a PM to knecht asking him to delete my registration as I felt it was not worthwhile continuing on here. I did not say why and the PM was quite short. knecht I have changed my mind so please don't delete it. I'm not saying this for any sympathy just stating as it is.

Regarding this site. I was not aware when joining that ATD was here as a watchdog over everything pasoti did or the people on it. It was sold to me as an Argyle discussion site where you could post your views, whatever they were, without any restriction or fear of banning. However since being on here I find that almost every thread becomes in the end pasoti based. I was not around during the war years as many others weren't so have no history with pasoti or the people who run it. Frankly the turning of every subject into a continuation of that war is boring for a number of people. It seems if you comment on this as I have then somehow you get branded and invited to join pasoti rather than be on here. In other words put up with it or pee off. How pasoti is that? You decide.

Subjects on this board. I had always thought that discussion was somebody putting their point of view and somebody else responding with their's. A point of view is then batted back and forward to emphasise an opinion or add points to it. Not so it seems. You get to put your opinion it's true but if you follow up with further argument this gets dismissed as boring. Two posts seem to be the limit of discussion after which people can't be bothered to continue. That to me isn't discussion it is making a statement. I got branded as boring and this seemed to be taken up by a few who just said "boring" at any contribution. Hence the statement to knecht that I felt it not worthwhile continuing. Nothing to do with anything else. This is either a discussion board or it isn't. You decide.

Finally the personal abuse part. I do not appreciate comments like the one sufferedsince68 made regarding my mother. I said so at the time. People have no idea about the personal circumstances of others when they make this sort of comment and should think before posting them. They are crass and unnecessary. In context I posted some personal details regarding my mother's illness on another site. A friendly site I should add and the post was in context of the subject at that time. A troll who used to sign in to that site simply to cause trouble picked up on this and the comments I got from him such as "how's the coffin dodger doing" and "is she dead yet" were common for months. No doubt he thought he was really funny. In my shoes he wouldn't have.

I don't go along with ignore buttons particularly so my undertaking is that I will ignore posts in the future regarding pasoti and the personnel on there and stick to the subject. Sorry to disappoint but I will probably still persue a point of view and be annoying. That way I should avoid falling foul of the waring factions at least.

Sensible, I wouldn't expect you to be any other way!

He aint half a boring old fart, but he has a valid point, and to be honest everybody on here knows it.

I don't know half of what went on a few years ago, when I also thought Argyle were a well run club and Stapleton seemed to be doing a good job keeping us turning over a profit, albeit small, when other clubs were chucking millions after a shot at the bigtime, and were going tits up left right and centre. I didn't know any different because I didn't use Pasoti back then, I actually tried signing up several times and my registration was never confirmed.

I was just an ordinary fan going to most home games and a few away games, happy that we were in the CCC, and sort of hoping that a miracle of some kind happened and we made the play-offs where anything was possible.

Fast forward a few short years and I wished we had spent buckets of cash we didn't have. Borrowed against future season ticket sales, to sign the players capable of firing us over the line, because so many others do it and enter administration and then carry on as if nothing has happened. It's wrong but if everybody else is doing it why shouldn't we?

So to keep having a dig at SG because he didn't know the details of the consortium that was ready to invest back then is pretty lame, because I didn't know about it either, and I suspect that there are quite a few who also didn't have a clue.

Now that he has been told he has held his hands up and said Ok we missed an opportunity, but Trings hounding of sensible is nothing short of ridiculous, and so to is the joining in of a couple of others, especially when the personal stuff got trotted out.

I have an issue with the actions of the Deepthroat gang, and tell Wozzer and Lee Jameson at every opportunity, but at least I will give Lee his dues as he is prepared to keep sticking his head over the trench and trying to join in again no matter how much abuse is directed at him. If anyone has been taking notice recently, Lee has said he has woken up and smelled the coffee and he can't believe how stupid and easily led he has been. That's taken some guts. It would be far easier for him to stick with what and who he knows and keep being a puppet for the Pasoti gang, but he's decided he's had enough of them.

Sensible has kept coming back and arguing his case, when again it would be so much easier for him to register on Pasoti or stay on the small but friendly Not606 where he wouldn't get the abuse.

I sometimes get the impression that unless people were present at the inception of Argyle Talk they are thought so much less of than if you weren't. No everybody but certainly if you are not vehemently opposed to Brent and Pasoti. If you weren't around at the start and you don't echo Trings sentiments all the time, you get told how it is and how it was and how it should be, not told an opinion, told this is how it shall be.

Greengenes is another that comes in for loads of stick because he sees things different to the majority on here, and IS grateful that there is still an Argyle right now. Not everybody is interested in how much Brent has paid for the club or how much he is making from the land being sold off, but not everybody is interested in politics and just want to watch Argyle play.

It's not particularly my point of view but then wouldn't the world be a fuckin boring place if everybody went around like a bunch of sheep nodding and applauding and agreeing on everything? It would be like Pasoti, and just about everyone on here can't stand the place.

well said GJ

Yes, very well said Jock.